Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

All WWE/F Related Reviews and Discussions
Post Reply
User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 19681
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by cero2k » Dec 17th, '19, 15:27

taken from: https://theboard.f4wonline.com/forum/th ... end-theory
just listened to the Filthy show. Tom pointed out that with the Fiend's three major feuds, he has set all of his opponents back in their lives or whatever

- destroyed Finn, Finn goes back to his roots in NXT
- destroyed Rollins, Rollins turns back heel and forms a trio stable
- destroyed Daniel Bryan, Bryan shows up looking like American Dragon daniel bryan
-

has to be a coincidence but interesting nonetheless. maybe this is already a popular theory and i've just missed it until now
Image

User avatar
Bob-O
Posts: 3514
Joined: Dec 17th, '10, 06:06

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Bob-O » Dec 17th, '19, 16:08

Don't forget Jerry Lawler who returned to the announce table full time!

Or, Mick Foley who returned to "Oh yeah, I forgot about him!" status!
Image

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 19681
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by cero2k » Dec 17th, '19, 17:59

Also Rey Mysterio, right? who returned to moving like he was 15 years ago
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 25036
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 17th, '19, 19:05

This is WWE, not CHIKARA.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Northern Gate
CHIKARA Hot Off the Griddle

User avatar
Bob-O
Posts: 3514
Joined: Dec 17th, '10, 06:06

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Bob-O » Dec 17th, '19, 20:09

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 19:05
This is WWE, not CHIKARA.
They're starting to close the gap...
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 25036
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 17th, '19, 20:10

Bob-O wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:09
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 19:05
This is WWE, not CHIKARA.
They're starting to close the gap...
No. If this was CHIKARA, something visible also would have happened with Foley, Kane, Booker, and everyone else The Fiend has touched. Let's not confuse genius for lucky accident. I can assure you that no one on the writing crew has any idea that Bryan ever had short hair.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Northern Gate
CHIKARA Hot Off the Griddle

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 19681
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by cero2k » Dec 17th, '19, 20:55

Bob-O wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:09
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 19:05
This is WWE, not CHIKARA.
They're starting to close the gap...
Yeap. In ticket sales and ratings
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 25036
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 17th, '19, 21:51

cero2k wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:55
Bob-O wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:09
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 19:05
This is WWE, not CHIKARA.
They're starting to close the gap...
Yeap. In ticket sales and ratings
You know that both their ratings and ticket sales are higher than AEW, right?
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Northern Gate
CHIKARA Hot Off the Griddle

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 19681
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by cero2k » Dec 17th, '19, 23:38

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 21:51
You know that both their ratings and ticket sales are higher than AEW, right?
Multibillion dollar company that has been going for 30+ years, I would expect more than they have. Old people love their WWE.
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 25036
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 18th, '19, 07:03

cero2k wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 23:38
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 21:51
You know that both their ratings and ticket sales are higher than AEW, right?
Multibillion dollar company that has been going for 30+ years, I would expect more than they have. Old people love their WWE.
1. You know AEW is a multimillion-dollar company, too, right? And with the exception of paying your taxes, there isn't much difference between millions and billions.

2. But WWE is coming off of years of bad TV. I'm shocked they're not lower than they are. AEW is the cool kids promotion and they're having trouble selling out buildings now that they would have had no problem selling out two months ago. And their ratings are trending downwards while NXT's are trending up. They're losing people to the show that people are saying looks more minor league.
You can take all of the potshots at WWE's attendance you want, but until your promotion of choice is doing close to their numbers and not trending downwards itself, you just come off looking like a TNA-Mecca user.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Northern Gate
CHIKARA Hot Off the Griddle

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 19681
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by cero2k » Dec 18th, '19, 09:57

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 07:03

1. You know AEW is a multimillion-dollar company, too, right? And with the exception of paying your taxes, there isn't much difference between millions and billions.

2. But WWE is coming off of years of bad TV. I'm shocked they're not lower than they are. AEW is the cool kids promotion and they're having trouble selling out buildings now that they would have had no problem selling out two months ago. And their ratings are trending downwards while NXT's are trending up. They're losing people to the show that people are saying looks more minor league.
You can take all of the potshots at WWE's attendance you want, but until your promotion of choice is doing close to their numbers and not trending downwards itself, you just come off looking like a TNA-Mecca user.
1. not really, Khans have multi million dollars, that doesn't mean that AEW gets that money, sure they run an expensive gig, but they're not getting the level of money that WWE is for FOX and Blood Money JUST for their own consumption.
Either way, AEW has been running for 12 weeks now, WWE is at 1300+ weeks, people watch it out of habit, not out of quality.

2. WWE is coming off bad years and is following them up with bad years too. Yeap, AEW are the cool kids, and they'll surely fail in the long term because WWE is a greedy corporation that will play dirty and their fans will eat shit if they serve it colored plates. They're the Disney and McDonalds of wrestling, shit product that people buy out of comfort, not quality. I rather get behind an enjoyable promotion that may be trending down, than get behind a greedy corporation and be just another sheep in the herd. I will always defend The Lighthouse's 400k profit over the Avenger's 900M+ because quality will always triumph over shit products made out of greed.
NXT is still being watched by mostly old people that will soon die and those numbers are because WWE had to go all out and put their main roster geeks on the show and make them a big deal at Survivor Series.
AEW still has better demos than WWE, they have better DVR numbers than WWE, their attendance is only about 1-2k less than RAW, the MOST IMPORTANT wrestling show in history. 11 weeks vs 1300 weeks, and the difference is 2k. Everyone in the country knows WWE and the difference is only 2k. A promotion with "no-names", "spot monkeys", "shitty comedy" seems to be holding up good enough against a legit fucking titan. Aside from blood money, most of WWE metrics are going down and it's not because NJPW or AEW are stealing fans, WWE is losing them.

3. I'm not tna-mecca, i'm anti greedy-billionaire-monopoly-seeking promotions. I'm anti blood-money-right-wing-promotions, but sure, I rather be a tna-mecca than a "WWE fan". By all means, you're the one that constantly defends their shit product and who brought up AEW in a conversation it had nothing to do with. I'm as much anti-WWE than you are anti-AEW.
Image

User avatar
KILLdozer
Posts: 5864
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 22:54

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by KILLdozer » Dec 18th, '19, 10:20

Shut up FAT BOYS!
When they come, they'll come at what you love.

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 25036
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 18th, '19, 10:32

cero2k wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 09:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 07:03

1. You know AEW is a multimillion-dollar company, too, right? And with the exception of paying your taxes, there isn't much difference between millions and billions.

2. But WWE is coming off of years of bad TV. I'm shocked they're not lower than they are. AEW is the cool kids promotion and they're having trouble selling out buildings now that they would have had no problem selling out two months ago. And their ratings are trending downwards while NXT's are trending up. They're losing people to the show that people are saying looks more minor league.
You can take all of the potshots at WWE's attendance you want, but until your promotion of choice is doing close to their numbers and not trending downwards itself, you just come off looking like a TNA-Mecca user.
1. not really, Khans have multi million dollars, that doesn't mean that AEW gets that money, sure they run an expensive gig, but they're not getting the level of money that WWE is for FOX and Blood Money JUST for their own consumption.
Either way, AEW has been running for 12 weeks now, WWE is at 1300+ weeks, people watch it out of habit, not out of quality.

2. WWE is coming off bad years and is following them up with bad years too. Yeap, AEW are the cool kids, and they'll surely fail in the long term because WWE is a greedy corporation that will play dirty and their fans will eat shit if they serve it colored plates. They're the Disney and McDonalds of wrestling, shit product that people buy out of comfort, not quality. I rather get behind an enjoyable promotion that may be trending down, than get behind a greedy corporation and be just another sheep in the herd. I will always defend The Lighthouse's 400k profit over the Avenger's 900M+ because quality will always triumph over shit products made out of greed.
NXT is still being watched by mostly old people that will soon die and those numbers are because WWE had to go all out and put their main roster geeks on the show and make them a big deal at Survivor Series.
AEW still has better demos than WWE, they have better DVR numbers than WWE, their attendance is only about 1-2k less than RAW, the MOST IMPORTANT wrestling show in history. 11 weeks vs 1300 weeks, and the difference is 2k. Everyone in the country knows WWE and the difference is only 2k. A promotion with "no-names", "spot monkeys", "shitty comedy" seems to be holding up good enough against a legit fucking titan. Aside from blood money, most of WWE metrics are going down and it's not because NJPW or AEW are stealing fans, WWE is losing them.

3. I'm not tna-mecca, i'm anti greedy-billionaire-monopoly-seeking promotions. I'm anti blood-money-left-wing-promotions, but sure, I rather be a tna-mecca than a "WWE fan". By all means, you're the one that constantly defends their shit product and who brought up AEW in a conversation it had nothing to do with. I'm as much anti-WWE than you are anti-AEW.
1. I can guarentee you that there is wellore than $10 million being spent on AEW. Where the money comes from is irrelevant to how much is being spent on the promotion.

2. Stop using straw-man WWE-mark anti-AEW comments to tell me that their numbers are impressive compared to Raw's. I have never once treated AEW that way so please stop talking like I have.
Yes, WWE metrics are going down because WWE is losing fans, but the whole idea of AEW (and everyone else who has tried to make this sort of push) is that they would appeal to those fans. AEW's metrics trending downwards show that they are failing to do that.
3. I brought AEW up becase you brought up WWE financials and ratings in a l thread that was otherwise purely about Creative.
I certainly don't constantly defend WWE. I've sh*t on them in more detail and in s more frequent basis than anyone. But I will also stand up for quality wrestling being put on. If you want to boycott WWE then that's fine
But if your basis is that they're "greedy corporate billionaires," you might want to look at the Khans getting fined for worker safety violations, or the fact that they are NFL owners, who share a dismal percentage of their profits with their employees. And if you'll turn your back on promotions you used to love like PROGRESS for, as you like to say "bending the knee" to WWE, you you should apply those same standards to AEW, who are inextricably linked to the Khans and there business.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Northern Gate
CHIKARA Hot Off the Griddle

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 25036
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 18th, '19, 10:32

KILLdozer wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 10:20
Shut up FAT BOYS!
Dozer, the adults are talking about real issues now. Go to your room.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Northern Gate
CHIKARA Hot Off the Griddle

User avatar
KILLdozer
Posts: 5864
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 22:54

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by KILLdozer » Dec 19th, '19, 10:58

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 10:32
KILLdozer wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 10:20
Shut up FAT BOYS!
Dozer, the adults are talking about real issues now. Go to your room.
Y'all are getting into another big debate about shit unrelated to the topic. Ain't nobody got time for that.
When they come, they'll come at what you love.

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 19681
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by cero2k » Dec 22nd, '19, 10:48

Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 10:32


1. I can guarentee you that there is wellore than $10 million being spent on AEW. Where the money comes from is irrelevant to how much is being spent on the promotion.

2. Stop using straw-man WWE-mark anti-AEW comments to tell me that their numbers are impressive compared to Raw's. I have never once treated AEW that way so please stop talking like I have.
Yes, WWE metrics are going down because WWE is losing fans, but the whole idea of AEW (and everyone else who has tried to make this sort of push) is that they would appeal to those fans. AEW's metrics trending downwards show that they are failing to do that.
3. I brought AEW up becase you brought up WWE financials and ratings in a l thread that was otherwise purely about Creative.
I certainly don't constantly defend WWE. I've sh*t on them in more detail and in s more frequent basis than anyone. But I will also stand up for quality wrestling being put on. If you want to boycott WWE then that's fine
But if your basis is that they're "greedy corporate billionaires," you might want to look at the Khans getting fined for worker safety violations, or the fact that they are NFL owners, who share a dismal percentage of their profits with their employees. And if you'll turn your back on promotions you used to love like PROGRESS for, as you like to say "bending the knee" to WWE, you you should apply those same standards to AEW, who are inextricably linked to the Khans and there business.
1. where the money comes from is far more important on where they spend it, i don't care if they want to give 1B to Lesnar and Rousey. If CMLL was being run by the Cartel, i wouldn't support CMLL.

2. I'm not saying AEW's number's are impressive, i'm saying WWE's suck and for a business that size that constantly circle-jerks itself, it's laughable.
I apologize for implying that you have a grudge with AEW, that is the impression that i've had because you show that you have a personal grudge with both Cody and The Elite for years now, and ni the same vein, you're the only person I know, outside of Facebook and Twitter bots, that have defended a lot of terrible things from WWE.
Like i said, i don't think AEW is stealing anyone's fans, it's worse, WWE is making fans leave the whole wrestling industry altogether.

3. It's still a WWE based discussion, it's not far out to bring up ratings/financial reflected in creative and booking.
I can't speak for what Papa Khan does with his businesses, because none of that is related to AEW. For that matter, what Tony Khan does for his teams is also another thing. There is a big difference between the deals that Vince McMahon and co. do FOR WWE, i'm not even bringing up McMahon putting Linda in the White House, nor his support of Trump. I'm only talking about what McMahon has done in the name of WWE, and at least until now, Khan has done nothing that I know of like that to bury those promotions of lower levels, or enrich themselves by dirty deals, or treat their employees like shit.
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 25036
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Tom Lawlor's Fiend Theory

Post by Big Red Machine » Dec 22nd, '19, 14:40

cero2k wrote:
Dec 22nd, '19, 10:48
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 10:32


1. I can guarentee you that there is wellore than $10 million being spent on AEW. Where the money comes from is irrelevant to how much is being spent on the promotion.

2. Stop using straw-man WWE-mark anti-AEW comments to tell me that their numbers are impressive compared to Raw's. I have never once treated AEW that way so please stop talking like I have.
Yes, WWE metrics are going down because WWE is losing fans, but the whole idea of AEW (and everyone else who has tried to make this sort of push) is that they would appeal to those fans. AEW's metrics trending downwards show that they are failing to do that.
3. I brought AEW up becase you brought up WWE financials and ratings in a l thread that was otherwise purely about Creative.
I certainly don't constantly defend WWE. I've sh*t on them in more detail and in s more frequent basis than anyone. But I will also stand up for quality wrestling being put on. If you want to boycott WWE then that's fine
But if your basis is that they're "greedy corporate billionaires," you might want to look at the Khans getting fined for worker safety violations, or the fact that they are NFL owners, who share a dismal percentage of their profits with their employees. And if you'll turn your back on promotions you used to love like PROGRESS for, as you like to say "bending the knee" to WWE, you you should apply those same standards to AEW, who are inextricably linked to the Khans and there business.
1. where the money comes from is far more important on where they spend it, i don't care if they want to give 1B to Lesnar and Rousey. If CMLL was being run by the Cartel, i wouldn't support CMLL.

2. I'm not saying AEW's number's are impressive, i'm saying WWE's suck and for a business that size that constantly circle-jerks itself, it's laughable.
I apologize for implying that you have a grudge with AEW, that is the impression that i've had because you show that you have a personal grudge with both Cody and The Elite for years now, and ni the same vein, you're the only person I know, outside of Facebook and Twitter bots, that have defended a lot of terrible things from WWE.
Like i said, i don't think AEW is stealing anyone's fans, it's worse, WWE is making fans leave the whole wrestling industry altogether.

3. It's still a WWE based discussion, it's not far out to bring up ratings/financial reflected in creative and booking.
I can't speak for what Papa Khan does with his businesses, because none of that is related to AEW. For that matter, what Tony Khan does for his teams is also another thing. There is a big difference between the deals that Vince McMahon and co. do FOR WWE, i'm not even bringing up McMahon putting Linda in the White House, nor his support of Trump. I'm only talking about what McMahon has done in the name of WWE, and at least until now, Khan has done nothing that I know of like that to bury those promotions of lower levels, or enrich themselves by dirty deals, or treat their employees like shit.
1 & 3. But your criticism always starts with it being a "multi-billion dollar company," not the blood money part, and you've used that line of attack since well before the Saudi deal was struck.
If you want to lambast WWE for being greedy, you should treat the Khans the same way. They're not angels, either. And if you're going to turn on PROGRESS because they're close to WWE then you should apply that same scrutiny to AEW because of things the Khan's have been involved in.

2. My issue we Cody is that I think he's arrogant and petty...but that hasn't gotten in my way when I rate anyone else's matches (Hogan, Vince, Piper, Dusty, Hunter, Zandig, David Starr, Kevin Nash, Dynamite Kid, Aries) and I don't let it affect me with Cody, either. I criticize based solely off of performance and booking. My issue with Cody is that he sees himself as embodying these old school principles when in reality he makes the same mistakes that WWE does.
I have nothing against the Elite. I don't think I've said a single bad word about the Bucks or Kenny since Dynamite began. When I like what someone is doing, I will explain why, and when I don't like what someone is doing, I will explain why. I call wXw out for the same things that I call TNA out for.
What I do have a problem with is hypocrisy and double-standards, and I think Cody is guilty of it personally, and I think a lot of fans are guilty of it when it comes to their evaluation of Cody. The moment he put that Bullet Club shirt on, he went from "boring" to the best wrestler ever not named Omega or Okada, despite his matches being terrible and his promos the same over the top crap that people would poop on WWE for.
I don't see these "evil business practices" of Vince's as being evil. I'm very libertarian in my outlook on a lot of things. So long as he's not directly harming people or breaking the law then that's fine. The idea that Vince is trying to create a monopoly doesn't bother me one bit because he'll never be able to. He's been trying for years and has more money now than ever before, and yet pro wrestling on a lower level than Vince's is healthier now financially both in the US/Canada and around the world, than it has been since the days of the NWA monopoly (and both Vince Sr. and Verne count as being part of that, even if they weren't members, because they obeyed the laws of the territories), and healthier creatively than even then, as we don't have the same people running from territory to territory repeating the same set of angles (looking at you, Fuller, Dusty, Ken Mantel) or one boss running the same sequence for every feud no matter who was in the top babyface role (Vince Sr.). Vince will never put the indies or CMLL or New Japan out of business, just like he didn't put WCW out of business. They might put themselves out of business, but that's their own damn fault.
Don't get me wrong, I will criticize Vince for a lot of things that he does that I think are immoral (the independent contractors deal, for example), but trying to form a monopoly (people's #1 complaint about mean old Vince) isn't something I have any problem with. I also think that you have to take the good with the bad. Vince is under no obligation to pay for anyone's rehab, but he does. I don't think the Saudis get any actual benefit from the WWE deal because the mainstream has never taken WWE seriously, especially as some sort of moral compass.
As for WWE and driving fans away from the business, I don't think that's a fair way to look at it. WWE is driving fans away from WWE, and if all those fans know of the business is WWE, then they don't come back to the business. But there are clearly a sizable number of fans who get hooked on pro wrestling though WWE and look for more, and when those fans give up on WWE, they keep watching New Japan/PROGRESS/ROH/TNA/PWG/CHIKARA/MLW/their local indy. And if you want to blame WWE for driving away those who don't return, then you need to give WWE credit for those fans becoming wrestling fans in the first place, too.
AEW, like the current NWA and like TNA before them, are an attempt to bring in that lost fan. AEW is failing in their goal because they are clearly not providing what those fans want. Both WWE and AEW multi-million dollar failures at their goal. I don't think WWE's failure is that much more shameful just because they have put more billionaire pocket change into it (they also have more shows and a lot more people to pay).

I also think that, for all of their talk about being a "cradle to grave" promotion, WWE has pretty much always set themselves up more as a promotion whose fanbase goes in cycles. People get into it for a few years in elementary school or middle school and then mostly stop watching it when it ceases to become "cool," then go through nostalgia phases of paying attention again for the rest of their life. Other promotions are trying to grab your attention and keep it by getting you invested in things. Maybe WWE thinks they're e doing that and failing miserably, but their general scheme of doing things doesn't point in that direction at all the same way that most other promotions (and especially outside of Japan) do.
Even though they think they're Marvel in the late 60s, WWE is actually DC in the late 60s : Part of the way they run their business has fan desertion as they "age out" baked into it.



As for bringing up ratings, this was a discussion of pure creative theory. Views on a character. The overall ratings are unrelated.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Northern Gate
CHIKARA Hot Off the Griddle

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests