Wrestling moves that aren't what they were

[Codebreaker]

This post came about whilst watching Raw this week. Some wrestling moves and other things aren't as effective as they were. I was thinking this after Booker T did his finisher on Jack Swagger. I don't think it was even 30 seconds after the move that I saw Swagger walking out with no stagger (no pun intended) and just one arm across his body. It annoyed me quite alot and I started thinking about things similar to this like steel shots which used to be match finishing material but now require several chair shots for this.

Then came later on Raw and Austin's stunner on Cole. Cole should not be able to get up onto his feet about 2 seconds after just for the sake of an FU! Cole should be lying flat on the floor and not move for about 2-3 minutes. The stunner is generally not what it was too. It doesn't matter if he's been battle-hardened from recent matches with Lawler and the other stunners and rockbottoms he's received over the years - he's very weak!

If you want to mention any other moves, please do.

[kirbs2002]

The DDT. Considered to be a guaranteed KO ages ago, now is just a routine maneuver.

[yourcrapsweak]

BEARHUG!

[kirbs2002]

The sleeperhold, which will legitimately black you out IRL.

[Big Red Machine]

DDT is the top of that list. Another one that isn't actually a wrestling move has faced a similar issue is the good old-fashioned chairshot.

[Serujuunin]

I kind of want to say a Samoan drop, simply because if a big guy legitimately fell on top of you, you wouldn't be getting up. But most of the finishers definitely aren't what they were before. The Stunner is one of them. Also, most submission moves. Before if a guy was in one early in a match, he'd sell it throughout the whole match, not forget about it halfway through and start selling something else (or not selling anything at all). If a guy cranked on your leg as hard as he could, you definitely wouldn't be getting up to fight back. Just my opinion though.

[cero2k]

DDT, i agree

the one i think that has lost most of it's meaning is the piledriver, they still put people down, but more and more, people kick out of them, no matter if it's a tombstone, a pull-over, or even a package. The piledriver is loosing power.

some others
Flying Elbow, some power bombs, Figure 4 Leg Lock

I'm actually ok with some chair shots because it used to piss me off that some chair shots came out looking all weak (look at Lance Storm) but they were expected to have the same effect as a Whipwreck/Foley chair shot.

[Big Red Machine]

DDT, i agree

the one i think that has lost most of it's meaning is the piledriver, they still put people down, but more and more, people kick out of them, no matter if it's a tombstone, a pull-over, or even a package. The piledriver is loosing power.

some others
Flying Elbow, some power bombs, Figure 4 Leg Lock

I 100% disagree with the piledriver, especially the good, old-fashioned piledriver. It is one of those things that is always seen as a possible match-ender, even from a guy who doesn't use that move (like Triple H's piledriver on The Rock at WM2000, or more recently, Hero's piledriver on Davey Richards at Only the Strong Survive). Look at the angle between the Kenny King and Jerry Lynn in ROH. ANX had never used a Spike Piledriver before. There finisher was something completely different. But when they hit Lynn with it, you knew it was significant. You knew that it was a big deal.

Powerbombs I kind of disagree on as well because powerbombs all depend on the user. Any big guy with the right look can come in and make a powerbomb look like a legitimate finisher (Nash and Batista being the two best examples of this).

As for the Figure 4... (IMO), submission finishers have, for the most part been portrayed as the guy who uses it as a finisher being better at using the move than others. He can (kayfabe) lock in the move tighter, apply more pressure, or whatever due to experience using it, and/or some secret he knows that makes his version of the move slightly different, and thus, more painful. Chris Masters' masterlock is a good example of this. It was a simple full nelson... but it looked amazing and vicious. Another is the Angle Lock. They sold it as if Kurt could lock on the move better than anyone else.

[cero2k]

I 100% disagree with the piledriver, especially the good, old-fashioned piledriver. It is one of those things that is always seen as a possible match-ender, even from a guy who doesn't use that move (like Triple H's piledriver on The Rock at WM2000, or more recently, Hero's piledriver on Davey Richards at Only the Strong Survive). Look at the angle between the Kenny King and Jerry Lynn in ROH. ANX had never used a Spike Piledriver before. There finisher was something completely different. But when they hit Lynn with it, you knew it was significant. You knew that it was a big deal.

yeah, it still looks like a match-ender, but it really rarely is. Taker's tombstone was a move that would put you down no matter who you were, but now we've seen Edge, Trips, HBK, and some others kickout to the tombstone just like that. I consider that as a move loosing relevance or strength. I remember Spike piledrivers being THAT move that you would go to when you really wanted to hurt people, or when feuds were at their highest place, yet right now you have teams like the Cutler Brothers using it as their normal finisher, that's the kind of thing that makes me feel like that move has lost certain relevance.

Powerbombs I kind of disagree on as well because powerbombs all depend on the user. Any big guy with the right look can come in and make a powerbomb look like a legitimate finisher (Nash and Batista being the two best examples of this).

This kinda applies to any move, like we mentioned the DDT, some people now use it as a secondary move, but there are still wrestlers putting people down with a DDT, Raven, Dreamer, McIntyre for example still used somewhat basic DDTs. It's kinda who Big Zeke can pull off making a lariat or a series of body slams seem like a legit finisher, but i mean, it's just a lariat, even JBL's clothesline from Hell seemed weak against some guys.

As for the Figure 4... (IMO), submission finishers have, for the most part been portrayed as the guy who uses it as a finisher being better at using the move than others. He can (kayfabe) lock in the move tighter, apply more pressure, or whatever due to experience using it, and/or some secret he knows that makes his version of the move slightly different, and thus, more painful. Chris Masters' masterlock is a good example of this. It was a simple full nelson... but it looked amazing and vicious. Another is the Angle Lock. They sold it as if Kurt could lock on the move better than anyone else.

what i see with Submission finishers is that they slowly start to lose effects on wrestlers, which is why i kinda see the F4LL as something that it isn't what it used to be, because it went from a move that would make people tap out, to a hold that is used only to catch your breath again. Kinda like how the walls of jericho used to put people down for sure, but in Jericho's last run, they started to become a secondary move that everyone could break off, same thing happened with a bunch of moves like headlocks, abdominal stretch, etc. But yeah, i do agree that a submission is more about the wrestler than the move itself, for the most part.

[Big Red Machine]

I 100% disagree with the piledriver, especially the good, old-fashioned piledriver. It is one of those things that is always seen as a possible match-ender, even from a guy who doesn't use that move (like Triple H's piledriver on The Rock at WM2000, or more recently, Hero's piledriver on Davey Richards at Only the Strong Survive). Look at the angle between the Kenny King and Jerry Lynn in ROH. ANX had never used a Spike Piledriver before. There finisher was something completely different. But when they hit Lynn with it, you knew it was significant. You knew that it was a big deal.

yeah, it still looks like a match-ender, but it really rarely is. Taker's tombstone was a move that would put you down no matter who you were, but now we've seen Edge, Trips, HBK, and some others kickout to the tombstone just like that. I consider that as a move loosing relevance or strength.

You are right that it rarely ever ends the match, but that doesn't matter as long as people watching the match get sucked in and think that it could have.

Those guys have kicked out of the tombstone in ultra-important matches, and I disagree that they kicked out of it "just like that." Taking the move still took a lot out of them.

Powerbombs I kind of disagree on as well because powerbombs all depend on the user. Any big guy with the right look can come in and make a powerbomb look like a legitimate finisher (Nash and Batista being the two best examples of this).

This kinda applies to any move, like we mentioned the DDT, some people now use it as a secondary move, but there are still wrestlers putting people down with a DDT, Raven, Dreamer, McIntyre for example still used somewhat basic DDTs. It's kinda who Big Zeke can pull off making a lariat or a series of body slams seem like a legit finisher, but i mean, it's just a lariat, even JBL's clothesline from Hell seemed weak against some guys.

I think that a lot of it depends on who is taking the move, and how they sell it. Not as a knock on the guy's selling, but just the combination of physical ability and kayfabe expected impact. If JBL was doing it in most indy rings, the move would look amazing because the guys are smaller and thus can do things like flip over if needed, or sell it like they died. With an opponent closer to his size, it is much harder.

As for the Figure 4... (IMO), submission finishers have, for the most part been portrayed as the guy who uses it as a finisher being better at using the move than others. He can (kayfabe) lock in the move tighter, apply more pressure, or whatever due to experience using it, and/or some secret he knows that makes his version of the move slightly different, and thus, more painful. Chris Masters' masterlock is a good example of this. It was a simple full nelson... but it looked amazing and vicious. Another is the Angle Lock. They sold it as if Kurt could lock on the move better than anyone else.

what i see with Submission finishers is that they slowly start to lose effects on wrestlers, which is why i kinda see the F4LL as something that it isn't what it used to be, because it went from a move that would make people tap out, to a hold that is used only to catch your breath again. Kinda like how the walls of jericho used to put people down for sure, but in Jericho's last run, they started to become a secondary move that everyone could break off, same thing happened with a bunch of moves like headlocks, abdominal stretch, etc. But yeah, i do agree that a submission is more about the wrestler than the move itself, for the most part.

With the figure four in particular, I think it has been mostly reduced to being used for cheap pops.