Big backstage news on Josh’s future in the WWE, Early plans for SummerSlam weekend 2016

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Source: WrestleChat

By C.J. Quinn
– Posted on August 27, 2015Posted in: Indies, Other News, WWE

– While WWE SummerSlam Week in Brooklyn was a huge success this year, there’s been at least some talk of holding SummerSlam in Las Vegas or Los Angeles in 2016.

– Rey Mysterio and Konnan will be attending Pro Wrestling Guerrilla’s big Battle of Los Angeles events this weekend.

– Regarding WWE Tough Enough winner Josh Bredl, there are people within WWE who feel he can be a big Superstar. We noted a few weeks back that Josh was Vince McMahon’s favorite from day one. We also noted that there were people genuinely happy that Josh won on Tuesday night.

Source: F4Wonline.com

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Rey Mysterio, Konnan, and Cero will be attending Pro Wrestling Guerrilla’s big Battle of Los Angeles events this weekend.

ahem....fixed

[Big Red Machine]

Rey Mysterio, Konnan, and Cero will be attending Pro Wrestling Guerrilla’s dinky little indy Battle of Los Angeles events this weekend.

ahem....fixed

Corrected for accuracy.

[cero2k]

Rey Mysterio, Konnan, and Cero will be attending Pro Wrestling Guerrilla’s dinky little indy Battle of Los Angeles events this weekend.

ahem....fixed

Corrected for accuracy.

still biggest show of the year not under the WWE banner

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still biggest show of the year not under the WWE banner

Well... aside from Ultima Lucha, every big show from ROH, AAA, New Japan, CMLL, or Dragon Gate, or the occasional TNA PPV or important episode of Impact, and arguably King of Trios. It's big for a three-day indy tournament.

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still biggest show of the year not under the WWE banner

Well... aside from Ultima Lucha, every big show from ROH, AAA, New Japan, CMLL, or Dragon Gate, or the occasional TNA PPV or important episode of Impact, and arguably King of Trios. It's big for a three-day indy tournament.

ROH, AAA, CMLL, DG, TNA, CHIKARA, or LU don't make people travel from all over the world, doesn't sell out in 2 minutes. Last night I was sitting 2 chairs away from Victoria/Tara and one from Meltzer, on friday from Konnan. None of the other shows bring in people like that. I know you don't like PWG because they only run supershows, but BOLA is THE place to be, it's what people talk about.

[Big Red Machine]

[
still biggest show of the year not under the WWE banner

Well... aside from Ultima Lucha, every big show from ROH, AAA, New Japan, CMLL, or Dragon Gate, or the occasional TNA PPV or important episode of Impact, and arguably King of Trios. It's big for a three-day indy tournament.

ROH, AAA, CMLL, DG, TNA, CHIKARA, or LU don't make people travel from all over the world, doesn't sell out in 2 minutes. Last night I was sitting 2 chairs away from Victoria/Tara and one from Meltzer, on friday from Konnan. None of the other shows bring in people like that. I know you don't like PWG because they only run supershows, but BOLA is THE place to be, it's what people talk about.

PWG sells out in two minutes because the (intentionally) run such a small building. It sells out quick because it's so limited. If I remember correctly, the same thing started to happen with LU towards the end.

Also... people "travel from all over the world to PWG" because it's only in one spot and there are so few shows. If ROH ran less shows, the same thing would happen (especially if it wasn't on TV). That's exactly what still does happen with ROH's more western and southern shows, and have been happening for a long time. And it still does happen with CHIKARA. Even just for regular shows, never mind King of Trios or the Season Finales or iPPVs.

Meltzer shows up because he's local and he likes the wrestling. When ROH is out there, someone usually winds up sitting next to Dave there, too.
As for the other wrestlers- at non-PWG shows, wrestlers stay backstage because that's been proper etiquette for years. Other wrestlers stay backstage so as not to accidentally distract the audience. I'll give credit to the PWG audience for not getting distracted by the fact that Dave Meltzer and Konnan and Ronda Rousey are in the crowd, but it doesn't change the fact that wrestlers only sit in the crowd in PWG because everywhere else keeps them backstage so as not to distract from the show.

PWG is often very good wrestling. No one is denying that. But do you really think the quality of wrestling in BOLA is THAT MUCH BETTER than the wXw 16 Karat tournament (which fans from all over Europe do travel to) or even that much better than the TPIs were?
It's a great tournament... all for a shot at the title that means very little (the only guy who managed to make it mean anything since Chris Hero in 2009 was Adam Cole). If it mattered to the actual stories the way that King of Trios does in CHIKARA (or the way that the G1 and Survival of the Fittest need to do a better job at) then it would be must-see. But it's not. It's just like every other PWG show. It's a bunch of matches. Some of the matches are must-see, but the tournament itself never feels like it is.

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PWG sells out in two minutes because the (intentionally) run such a small building. It sells out quick because it's so limited. If I remember correctly, the same thing started to happen with LU towards the end.
quality sells, can't deny it, the two shows that people talk the most sell out, makes sense, and I hate to say it, but i'm sure that if ROH would run a 500 capacity show, it wouldn't sell in 2 minutes

Also... people "travel from all over the world to PWG" because it's only in one spot and there are so few shows. If ROH ran less shows, the same thing would happen (especially if it wasn't on TV). That's exactly what still does happen with ROH's more western and southern shows, and have been happening for a long time. And it still does happen with CHIKARA. Even just for regular shows, never mind King of Trios or the Season Finales or iPPVs.
it's not about how many shows you run, the people who fly don't come to every show, but people from all over the world do try to come to a PWG show at least once, I've personally met people from Australia, the other side of Canada, Ireland, that flew in only for PWG; I asked them if they had travel for other shows, and aside from Wrestlemania, no, none of them would travel for ROH or CHIKARA. I just made a $600 trip to PWG, I wouldn't really do that for any other promotion, not AAA, not NJPW, and certainly not WWE or ROH. I'm not talking people driving some hours to a ROH show or a quick 1 hr plane trip, I'm talking traveling from across the country or from other countries to watch a PWG show.

Meltzer shows up because he's local and he likes the wrestling. When ROH is out there, someone usually winds up sitting next to Dave there, too.
As for the other wrestlers- at non-PWG shows, wrestlers stay backstage because that's been proper etiquette for years. Other wrestlers stay backstage so as not to accidentally distract the audience. I'll give credit to the PWG audience for not getting distracted by the fact that Dave Meltzer and Konnan and Ronda Rousey are in the crowd, but it doesn't change the fact that wrestlers only sit in the crowd in PWG because everywhere else keeps them backstage so as not to distract from the show.
people stay behind because they're there to see their friends, but here they want to experience a PWG show, there are a bunch of guys that stay backstage too, rollins and regal did at threemendous IV. saying it's proper etiquette is not true, if you want to enjoy a show, you go and sit and watch the show, if you wanna see your friends, then you go backstage.

PWG is often very good wrestling. No one is denying that. But do you really think the quality of wrestling in BOLA is THAT MUCH BETTER than the wXw 16 Karat tournament (which fans from all over Europe do travel to yeah, europe is quite small and easy/cheap to travel, nothing that amazing) or even that much better than the TPIs were?
quality, they can be the same, but wXw is definitely not making people talk as much as BOLA, and PIS? keyword "were", BOLA is the hottest independent thing NOW. kOT has nothing on BOLA, CHIKARA has nothing on PWG.

It's a great tournament... all for a shot at the title that means very little (the only guy who managed to make it mean anything since Chris Hero in 2009 was Adam Cole). If it mattered to the actual stories the way that King of Trios does in CHIKARA (or the way that the G1 and Survival of the Fittest need to do a better job at) then it would be must-see. But it's not. It's just like every other PWG show. It's a bunch of matches. Some of the matches are must-see, but the tournament itself never feels like it is.
yet it sells out in 2 minutes and brings people from all over the world. Just because it doesn't have complex storytelling like you like, doesn't take away that it's the biggest indy show, at least in the US. Lots of people just wanna see good wrestling and simple stories as "whoever wins the tournament, gets a title shot". Survival of the Fittest is one of the most irrelevant shows in ROH today, so unmemorable that I had to look up the winners because i was sure Ciampa was one. KOT used to be big, except CHIKARA itself is not that big or newsworthy anymore.

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PWG sells out in two minutes because the (intentionally) run such a small building. It sells out quick because it's so limited. If I remember correctly, the same thing started to happen with LU towards the end.
quality sells, can't deny it, the two shows that people talk the most sell out, makes sense, and I hate to say it, but i'm sure that if ROH would run a 500 capacity show, it wouldn't sell in 2 minutes
I'm not saying quality doesn't sell, and I'm not saying PWG isn't quality in-ring action.
PWG sells out in three minutes because they have created a culture because of their business model of just throwing rap together randomly and letting the wrestlers go out there and have awesome matches. ROH has create a totally different model. They want you to wait and get hyped up about the matches in the storylines. Maybe for the New Japan shows that would happen in a 500 seat building, but that's about it because those matches aren't about the storyline, so ROH doesn't go about hyping shows up until well after tickets go on sale (though it used to be that when ROH did announce return dates and sell tickets for the next show in the market during intermission, they often would get very good numbers).

Also... people "travel from all over the world to PWG" because it's only in one spot and there are so few shows. If ROH ran less shows, the same thing would happen (especially if it wasn't on TV). That's exactly what still does happen with ROH's more western and southern shows, and have been happening for a long time. And it still does happen with CHIKARA. Even just for regular shows, never mind King of Trios or the Season Finales or iPPVs.
it's not about how many shows you run, the people who fly don't come to every show, but people from all over the world do try to come to a PWG show at least once, I've personally met people from Australia, the other side of Canada, Ireland, that flew in only for PWG; I asked them if they had travel for other shows, and aside from Wrestlemania, no, none of them would travel for ROH or CHIKARA. I just made a $600 trip to PWG, I wouldn't really do that for any other promotion, not AAA, not NJPW, and certainly not WWE or ROH. I'm not talking people driving some hours to a ROH show or a quick 1 hr plane trip, I'm talking traveling from across the country or from other countries to watch a PWG show.
People absolutely do do that for King of Trios and the CHIKARA season finales, and they at least used to do so for ROH (there were a lot of British fans who made it their goal to come over to the US to see ROH a least once, which is a big part of what led to ROH doing their two weekends in Europe). And when I say come in for far away, I am talking like eight or nine hour car rides each way, at the least. And people also do do that for WWE- at least for Mania and the Rumble, because that's why ROH started piggybacking on those shows. I have also heard of American Puro/Joshi fans who try to fly in to see New Japan live, and did the same with All Japan back in the Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada/Taue/Akiyama days.

And it is absolutely about how many shows you run. If PWG was running more than every six weeks (like the schedule that ROH or IWA-MS used to try to keep) people wouldn't be flying into the shows as often because it would be more expensive to fly into all of them, and people wouldn't be in such crazy demand for tickets because more shows means more chances to go.

Meltzer shows up because he's local and he likes the wrestling. When ROH is out there, someone usually winds up sitting next to Dave there, too.
As for the other wrestlers- at non-PWG shows, wrestlers stay backstage because that's been proper etiquette for years. Other wrestlers stay backstage so as not to accidentally distract the audience. I'll give credit to the PWG audience for not getting distracted by the fact that Dave Meltzer and Konnan and Ronda Rousey are in the crowd, but it doesn't change the fact that wrestlers only sit in the crowd in PWG because everywhere else keeps them backstage so as not to distract from the show.
people stay behind because they're there to see their friends, but here they want to experience a PWG show, there are a bunch of guys that stay backstage too, rollins and regal did at threemendous IV. saying it's proper etiquette is not true, if you want to enjoy a show, you go and sit and watch the show, if you wanna see your friends, then you go backstage.
Regal and Rollins stay backstage because they'd get in trouble if they didn't, just like when TNA guys (and Homicide in particular) used to show up to ROH shows

PWG is often very good wrestling. No one is denying that. But do you really think the quality of wrestling in BOLA is THAT MUCH BETTER than the wXw 16 Karat tournament (which fans from all over Europe do travel to yeah, europe is quite small and easy/cheap to travel, nothing that amazing) or even that much better than the TPIs were?
quality, they can be the same, but wXw is definitely not making people talk as much as BOLA, and PIS? keyword "were", BOLA is the hottest independent thing NOW. kOT has nothing on BOLA, CHIKARA has nothing on PWG.
Europe is easier to travel through with an EU passport, but it is still a major commitment of time and money. Does wXw get people to talk as much as BOLA? No. But that's probably greatly affected by the fact that it's way over there in Germany as opposed to being in North America or Japan.
My point is that while BOLA might be good, I think calling it the hottest thing around is quite the stretch. People get excited the month beforehand when the card is announced and stay excited until everyone gets and watches the DVD about a month or so after the show happens, but that's it. Just like with the ROH/New Japan shows, this year's Field of Honor, the G1, or King of Trios (most years- this year is an off year for them) (and I think this is exactly what AAA tried to do with the World Cup). Ultima Lucha was MUCH hotter than BOLA. It's just the thing that is currently in-season.

It's a great tournament... all for a shot at the title that means very little (the only guy who managed to make it mean anything since Chris Hero in 2009 was Adam Cole). If it mattered to the actual stories the way that King of Trios does in CHIKARA (or the way that the G1 and Survival of the Fittest need to do a better job at) then it would be must-see. But it's not. It's just like every other PWG show. It's a bunch of matches. Some of the matches are must-see, but the tournament itself never feels like it is.
yet it sells out in 2 minutes and brings people from all over the world. Just because it doesn't have complex storytelling like you like, doesn't take away that it's the biggest indy show, at least in the US. Lots of people just wanna see good wrestling and simple stories as "whoever wins the tournament, gets a title shot". Survival of the Fittest is one of the most irrelevant shows in ROH today, so unmemorable that I had to look up the winners because i was sure Ciampa was one. KOT used to be big, except CHIKARA itself is not that big or newsworthy anymore.
BOLA is no different than any other PWG show. As you said, they all sell out in five minutes and people travel from all over the world to see it. It's just a bunch of matches, like every other PWG show. The only thing that made BOLA different this year was Will Osprey, who they could have brought in for any other and it would have felt no different.
"Whoever wins the tournament gets a title shot" is a great story. It just doesn't mean as much if the belt doesn't mean anything. And it doesn't. Roddy vs. Sabre Jr. felt no bigger than Hero vs. Sabre Jr. did. And why should I care who earns a title shot by winning BOLA if people just get title shots all the time for no reason?
Has SOTF been perfect lately? No. Of course not. I said that above. Delirious has been using it as a Royal Rumble like Pearce did instead of using it the way Gabe and Cornette did to really signify the beginning of a main event singles push (Delirious aside). But that's how PWG should be using BOLA, too, and they aren't (hopefully Bailey's strong push this year will be the beginning of things for him the way Aries' second place finish did in SOTF 2004).
(Though I totally disagree with your assertion that is is "one of the most irrelevant shows in ROH today. Looking at this year, I'm certain that just giving us a #1 contender for Final Battle will make it more important than the WW Dayton, all four Road to BITW shows, Aftershock Tour: Hopkins, probably last weekend's Atlanta show, and arguably the February Atlanta show as well).

I also think there is a distinction between having a loyal, passionate rabid fanbase and being "big." PWG, like CHIKARA or SHIMMER/SHINE, is the former. ROH is the latter. It doesn't have quite the hardcore audience (certainly not like what it was back in the pre-Sinclair days), but it is undeniably bigger than PWG (and neither of those things necessarily equals "good:" TNA has both and they are bad, Evolve has neither and they are very good). It seems silly to me to claim that an ROH PPV (or maybe Ultima Lucha, I'm not sure what exactly their numbers were) is not the biggest event in indy wrestling. Between PPV buys, iPPV buys and live attendance, I think an ROH PPV will blow a PWG iPPV out of the water.

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I'm not saying quality doesn't sell, and I'm not saying PWG isn't quality in-ring action.
PWG sells out in three minutes because they have created a culture because of their business model of just throwing rap together randomly and letting the wrestlers go out there and have awesome matches. ROH has create a totally different model. They want you to wait and get hyped up about the matches in the storylines. Maybe for the New Japan shows that would happen in a 500 seat building, but that's about it because those matches aren't about the storyline, so ROH doesn't go about hyping shows up until well after tickets go on sale (though it used to be that when ROH did announce return dates and sell tickets for the next show in the market during intermission, they often would get very good numbers).
That makes PWG so much better then. PWG can sellout without even announcing a card (Mystery Vortex), while someone like ROH hopes to be able to sell while showing off the build up.


People absolutely do do that for King of Trios and the CHIKARA season finales, and they at least used to do so for ROH (there were a lot of British fans who made it their goal to come over to the US to see ROH a least once, which is a big part of what led to ROH doing their two weekends in Europe). And when I say come in for far away, I am talking like eight or nine hour car rides each way, at the least. And people also do do that for WWE- at least for Mania and the Rumble, because that's why ROH started piggybacking on those shows. I have also heard of American Puro/Joshi fans who try to fly in to see New Japan live, and did the same with All Japan back in the Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada/Taue/Akiyama days.

And it is absolutely about how many shows you run. If PWG was running more than every six weeks (like the schedule that ROH or IWA-MS used to try to keep) people wouldn't be flying into the shows as often because it would be more expensive to fly into all of them, and people wouldn't be in such crazy demand for tickets because more shows means more chances to go.
see, your example keep being in the past, yeah, ROH used to be THAT good, CHIKARA too, but not anymore, they're not that hot anymore, PWG is the hottest indie promotion in the US, and i did mention 'not under the WWE banner'

if less shows means this response, then maybe a bunch of companies should take the hint that sometimes, "less is more"


Regal and Rollins stay backstage because they'd get in trouble if they didn't, just like when TNA guys (and Homicide in particular) used to show up to ROH shows
Then you can easily sit behind the hard cam, and i highly doubt that Regal would be in trouble being that they send him to scout. Brad Maddox definitely didn't get in trouble.



My point is that while BOLA might be good, I think calling it the hottest thing around is quite the stretch. People get excited the month beforehand when the card is announced and stay excited until everyone gets and watches the DVD about a month or so after the show happens, but that's it. Just like with the ROH/New Japan shows, this year's Field of Honor, the G1, or King of Trios (most years- this year is an off year for them) (and I think this is exactly what AAA tried to do with the World Cup). Ultima Lucha was MUCH hotter than BOLA. It's just the thing that is currently in-season.
that applies to every single wrestling show in the world, we're not talking WM or WK anymore, but if there are shows in the US that make the most noise, BOLA is #1. Ultima Lucha may have made more noise, but do consider (1) they are on TV, (2) it's a free show, and (3) It was a season finale of a show that had a build up for months. ROH, i'm sorry, but the first NJPW/ROH may had been hyped, but the rest of the shows haven't, Field of Honor had nothing on Takeover in terms of noise. BOLA is a show that people plan months if not a full year ahead to attend, people know it's coming, aside from WWE, promotions are not achieved that anymore in the US, it's not like someone right now is super pumped about Field of Honor next year.


BOLA is no different than any other PWG show. As you said, they all sell out in five minutes and people travel from all over the world to see it. It's just a bunch of matches, like every other PWG show. The only thing that made BOLA different this year was Will Osprey, who they could have brought in for any other and it would have felt no different.
"Whoever wins the tournament gets a title shot" is a great story. It just doesn't mean as much if the belt doesn't mean anything. And it doesn't. Roddy vs. Sabre Jr. felt no bigger than Hero vs. Sabre Jr. did. And why should I care who earns a title shot by winning BOLA if people just get title shots all the time for no reason?
you are completely missing it here man. This BOLA had Thatcher, Scrull, freaking Mexican luchadors! Roddy vs Sabre doesn't have to feel bigger than Hero vs Sabre Jr, they're both amazing matches, Why should you care who gets the title? because this is a business of wrestling and because whoever wins BOLA means that one considered the best in the world (because they're bringing people from all over the world) takes on the champ. You want title shots that don't mean anything, just look at ROH giving TV shots to Hanson or Fish. Watannabe vs Lethal for the title? why the hell should i care for that?


(Though I totally disagree with your assertion that is is "one of the most irrelevant shows in ROH today. Looking at this year, I'm certain that just giving us a #1 contender for Final Battle will make it more important than the WW Dayton, all four Road to BITW shows, Aftershock Tour: Hopkins, probably last weekend's Atlanta show, and arguably the February Atlanta show as well).
SOTF just doesn't make noise anymore. Maybe it will this year if they have some good names in it, but as it is, it's a show that i can miss if they're gonna fill it out with guys like Hanson or Caprice Coleman


It seems silly to me to claim that an ROH PPV (or maybe Ultima Lucha, I'm not sure what exactly their numbers were) is not the biggest event in indy wrestling. Between PPV buys, iPPV buys and live attendance, I think an ROH PPV will blow a PWG iPPV out of the water.

Lucha Underground are free shows, they don't sell tickets, it's pretty much by invitation only or go and make a long as queue to get your tickets. Yeah, ROH will make more money, because they're in the business of making money and they have Sinclair to buy them cool stuff like PPVs, but that doesn't make their shows better or more important or memorable AT ALL. A year from now, people will remember that Zack Sabre Jr vs Pentagon Jr happened at BOLA, but who is even talking about Field of Honor one week after? who's talking about Roddy vs Lethal 60 minutes anymore? who's still talking about the NJPW guys in ROH months ago? But people still rave about Threemendous III, people still rave about Bucks vs WCTT Guerrilla Warfare, people still rave about Stone Cold ACH and the slow-mo match. I'm not saying ROH is bad, but PWG is making far more noise and is the hottest ticket out there. I truly hope you get to experience a PWG show once so you realize what this experience is like. The magic that happens in that building can only be compared (IMO) that what was happening in NXT Takeover last year, the energy of hearing Pentagon's music followed by Sabre Jr's is like nothing I've ever felt before.

[Big Red Machine]

I'm not saying quality doesn't sell, and I'm not saying PWG isn't quality in-ring action.
PWG sells out in three minutes because they have created a culture because of their business model of just throwing rap together randomly and letting the wrestlers go out there and have awesome matches. ROH has create a totally different model. They want you to wait and get hyped up about the matches in the storylines. Maybe for the New Japan shows that would happen in a 500 seat building, but that's about it because those matches aren't about the storyline, so ROH doesn't go about hyping shows up until well after tickets go on sale (though it used to be that when ROH did announce return dates and sell tickets for the next show in the market during intermission, they often would get very good numbers).
That makes PWG so much better then. PWG can sellout without even announcing a card (Mystery Vortex), while someone like ROH hopes to be able to sell while showing off the build up.
I have no doubt that ROH will sell 400 tickets for the Kalamazoo show before the card is announced. I'm certain they've already done so for the Pittsburgh area show in a few weeks with no card announced. I have no doubt they would sell at least 1500 tickets to Final Battle in Philly without announcing a card, but they won't do that because that's not the way that ROH (or any other non-PWG company in the world) does business.
It's a function of the business model. PWG doesn't even announce it's next show until the current one is over. At the moment ROH has sixteen shows through the end of this year with tickets available. They can't just go announcing the card for Final Battle right now because that would kill the unfolding nature of their stories. It's the same reason why the Pittsburgh and Lockport shows coming up in just over three weeks have ONE match announced between them: because doing so would give stuff away from the previous week's PPV.

People absolutely do do that for King of Trios and the CHIKARA season finales, and they at least used to do so for ROH (there were a lot of British fans who made it their goal to come over to the US to see ROH a least once, which is a big part of what led to ROH doing their two weekends in Europe). And when I say come in for far away, I am talking like eight or nine hour car rides each way, at the least. And people also do do that for WWE- at least for Mania and the Rumble, because that's why ROH started piggybacking on those shows. I have also heard of American Puro/Joshi fans who try to fly in to see New Japan live, and did the same with All Japan back in the Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada/Taue/Akiyama days.

And it is absolutely about how many shows you run. If PWG was running more than every six weeks (like the schedule that ROH or IWA-MS used to try to keep) people wouldn't be flying into the shows as often because it would be more expensive to fly into all of them, and people wouldn't be in such crazy demand for tickets because more shows means more chances to go.
see, your example keep being in the past, yeah, ROH used to be THAT good, CHIKARA too, but not anymore, they're not that hot anymore, PWG is the hottest indie promotion in the US, and i did mention 'not under the WWE banner'

if less shows means this response, then maybe a bunch of companies should take the hint that sometimes, "less is more"
People still do that for ROH's more western shows because ROH is rarely ever out that way (San Antonio and Hopkins have only this year become exceptions). People definitely did that for Vegas and for Amarillo and OKC, and have been doing that for Collinsville and Chicago for as long as ROH has been running there.

If "less is more" than why is ROH drawing bigger crowds in more markets than they have at any point in their history? Why is ICW in Scotland running more shows and drawing more per show than they ever did in the past? Why is New Japan so hot if they keep increasing the number of PPVs they do?



My point is that while BOLA might be good, I think calling it the hottest thing around is quite the stretch. People get excited the month beforehand when the card is announced and stay excited until everyone gets and watches the DVD about a month or so after the show happens, but that's it. Just like with the ROH/New Japan shows, this year's Field of Honor, the G1, or King of Trios (most years- this year is an off year for them) (and I think this is exactly what AAA tried to do with the World Cup). Ultima Lucha was MUCH hotter than BOLA. It's just the thing that is currently in-season.
that applies to every single wrestling show in the world, we're not talking WM or WK anymore, but if there are shows in the US that make the most noise, BOLA is #1. Ultima Lucha may have made more noise, but do consider (1) they are on TV, (2) it's a free show, and (3) It was a season finale of a show that had a build up for months. ROH, i'm sorry, but the first NJPW/ROH may had been hyped, but the rest of the shows haven't, Field of Honor had nothing on Takeover in terms of noise. BOLA is a show that people plan months if not a full year ahead to attend, people know it's coming, aside from WWE, promotions are not achieved that anymore in the US, it's not like someone right now is super pumped about Field of Honor next year.
The whole "season finale" deal is something that PWG COULD make BOLA. But they don't because they don't book. They just throw matches together.

How can people be planning for BOLA months in advance if they don't even announce it until a month or two beforehand?
Maybe we're looking in different places, but people were going NUTS when the top three match for Field of Honor were announced. If don't think Field of Honor made noise, you are completely crazy. They drew over 2,000 people WHEN NXT WAS RUNNING A HUGE SHOW IN DIRECT COMPETITION TO THEM. Without Takeover, they would have drawn at least 3,500-4,000. They can't be pumped like that about Field of Honor for next year yet because the baseball stadium hasn't decided if they want to do it yet, but if you got one huge match for it (kind of like the way CHIKARA created lots of early hype for JOT this year by announcing the Bullet Club way back in April), people would be excited for it (especially after this year's crowd wasn't as drunk and disruptive as last year's).

And people do talk about the ROH/New Japan shows exactly like that. People used to be like that for Final Battle, too, but they now don't have to be because it is accessible via PPV/iPPV. You'd see a lot less people flying in to PWG shows if they were available on iPPV. And yet even with this, ROH still draws crowd of the same size or bigger that they did to Final Battle now as they did before the move to iPPV back in 2009 (2014 being the exception, but only because the venue was smaller).



BOLA is no different than any other PWG show. As you said, they all sell out in five minutes and people travel from all over the world to see it. It's just a bunch of matches, like every other PWG show. The only thing that made BOLA different this year was Will Osprey, who they could have brought in for any other and it would have felt no different.
"Whoever wins the tournament gets a title shot" is a great story. It just doesn't mean as much if the belt doesn't mean anything. And it doesn't. Roddy vs. Sabre Jr. felt no bigger than Hero vs. Sabre Jr. did. And why should I care who earns a title shot by winning BOLA if people just get title shots all the time for no reason?
you are completely missing it here man. This BOLA had Thatcher, Scrull, freaking Mexican luchadors! Roddy vs Sabre doesn't have to feel bigger than Hero vs Sabre Jr, they're both amazing matches, Why should you care who gets the title? because this is a business of wrestling and because whoever wins BOLA means that one considered the best in the world (because they're bringing people from all over the world) takes on the champ. You want title shots that don't mean anything, just look at ROH giving TV shots to Hanson or Fish. Watannabe vs Lethal for the title? why the hell should i care for that?
So they brought some guys in. Big whoop. How is that any different than ROH using Alberto or the New Japan guys?
Of course Roddy vs. Sabre Jr. has to feel bigger than Hero vs. Sabre Jr. Roddy vs. Sabre Jr. is for the f*cking world title! What's even the point of the belt if it's not going to elevate your title matches?
Yes, BOLA is a tournament, but why should winning/losing matches at BOLA be important if winning/losing matches every other PWG show doesn't matter? If you spend the rest of the year not having any consequences for winning and losing, you lose the whole "this is a business of wrestling" feel.

Why is Fish getting a title shot? Because he won a tournament in in July Vegas.
Watanabe just won a big gauntlet match.
Why is Hanson getting a title shot? Because he beat Lethal completely cleanly back in November (not the best, I know, but I've been a harsher critic of Delirious' booking than anyone here).
Those are all a lot better than someone getting a shot just because, which is what PWG does nine times out of ten (and if that isn't what is happening, the announcers are completely failing at their jobs)
Why should you care about Watanabe vs. Lethal? It depends how they build it up. No one gave a crap about Senada in TNA and then they build him up with those great training videos. ROH could easily do something similar. Perhaps Taka feels that he needs to win this title to make his foreign excursion a success? We'll see what they do with it.


(Though I totally disagree with your assertion that is is "one of the most irrelevant shows in ROH today. Looking at this year, I'm certain that just giving us a #1 contender for Final Battle will make it more important than the WW Dayton, all four Road to BITW shows, Aftershock Tour: Hopkins, probably last weekend's Atlanta show, and arguably the February Atlanta show as well).
SOTF just doesn't make noise anymore. Maybe it will this year if they have some good names in it, but as it is, it's a show that i can miss if they're gonna fill it out with guys like Hanson or Caprice Coleman
Like I said, the problem with SOTF is that it has been used like a Royal Rumble for the past few years to decide who gets a title shot on the next couple of shows, so the direction always feels very clear and isn't surprising. If they were to use it to set up things for months down the line, the field would feel more open and it would feel like more of a sign that the winner is destined for great things, like it did with Elgin and Eddie and Lethal.
I'm also not sure what you have against Hanson. He's not the best wrestler ever, but he's pretty darn good and he is very over.

It seems silly to me to claim that an ROH PPV (or maybe Ultima Lucha, I'm not sure what exactly their numbers were) is not the biggest event in indy wrestling. Between PPV buys, iPPV buys and live attendance, I think an ROH PPV will blow a PWG iPPV out of the water.

Lucha Underground are free shows, they don't sell tickets, it's pretty much by invitation only or go and make a long as queue to get your tickets. Yeah, ROH will make more money, because they're in the business of making money and they have Sinclair to buy them cool stuff like PPVs, but that doesn't make their shows better or more important or memorable AT ALL. A year from now, people will remember that Zack Sabre Jr vs Pentagon Jr happened at BOLA, but who is even talking about Field of Honor one week after? who's talking about Roddy vs Lethal 60 minutes anymore? who's still talking about the NJPW guys in ROH months ago? But people still rave about Threemendous III, people still rave about Bucks vs WCTT Guerrilla Warfare, people still rave about Stone Cold ACH and the slow-mo match. I'm not saying ROH is bad, but PWG is making far more noise and is the hottest ticket out there. I truly hope you get to experience a PWG show once so you realize what this experience is like. The magic that happens in that building can only be compared (IMO) that what was happening in NXT Takeover last year, the energy of hearing Pentagon's music followed by Sabre Jr's is like nothing I've ever felt before.
Who is talking about Field of Honor? Everyone who has seen Roddy vs. Okada. Who is still talking about Lethal vs. Roddy- a bunch of people, although that number is fewer now because everyone came away from their rematch saying it was even better, with people who were at ever singe show saying THAT was the best match of the weekend, better than Brock/Taker, Sasha/Bailey, Owens/Balor or Roddy/Okada.
No one "raves" about Stone Cold ACH. It's a thing he does that will go the way of Rich Swann's "Black Jericho" and every other lame impersonation on the indies. People talk about Bucks vs. WCTT not because of the crowd or the "energy." They talk about it because it was an awesome match with some innovative stuff, had a chick bleed a lot more than anyone was expecting, and because it was THE CULMINATION OF A WELL-TOLD STORY. Who is talking about Threemendous III anymore? That was the one with some sort of random clusterf*ck ladder match main event, right? Was that the one with SSB in it or was that a the other year?
Let me check my notes.

Ah. That was the one without SSB. The one where I gave the main event a 10/10. I haven't even thought about it in years because it has felt the same as every single PWG show since then (actually since Steen Wolf, which was the real begining of PWG's hot streak... but no one even talks about that show anymore.

Do I know what the energy was like at the PWG show? I'm certain it was exactly the same as all six ROH shows I've been to. In fact, I'm certain it pales in comparison to the energy in the building that night in Edison where everyone was CERTAIN that this was the night Tyler Black was going to take the ROH World Title from Nigel McGuinness. Or that night in the Hammerstein when everyone knew Jerry Lynn was losing the belt, but no one was sure if it would be to Aries or Tyler. I've used those same words to describe every ROH show I've been at, because that's how it always feels when there is a hot crowd.
It's just a live show with a hot crowd. They're awesome to be at. Everyone who was at the LU tapings seemed to say the same thing. You could tell through the screen that things were like that at all of the ROH/NJPW shows, every SCOH, DBD, Best in the World, GBH, and Final Battle. All of the live reports said the same thing about all of ROH's recent trips to Hopkins and San Antonio, as well as the February show in Atlanta. It's no different than every single King of Trios, Season Finale, or other CHIKARA Easton show.

It's just a live show with an awesome crowd. It's not unique to PWG.

[KILLdozer]

Everything you say becomes invalid when the fact is remembered that ROH is on the same network as TNA.

Come on. TNA. The biggest fuck up out there goin ' legitimately and everyone knows it and THAT'S the station they got themselves onto? They couldn't find something better than someone who (it seems) has no idea who they're dealing with? I above anyone else understand taking on Impact was something good to do for TNA, and it's very very commendable, but it doesn't exactly say great things about ROH's current channel.

:p ;) Of course I'm just half fuckin ' with ya.

[Big Red Machine]

Everything you say becomes invalid when the fact is remembered that ROH is on the same network as TNA.

Come on. TNA. The biggest fuck up out there goin ' legitimately and everyone knows it and THAT'S the station they got themselves onto? They couldn't find something better than someone who (it seems) has no idea who they're dealing with? I above anyone else understand taking on Impact was something good to do for TNA, and it's very very commendable, but it doesn't exactly say great things about ROH's current channel.

:p ;) Of course I'm just half fuckin ' with ya.

You do realize that ROH is on, like a million other local affiliates because they're owned by a TV company, right?

[KILLdozer]

Nope-And don't care! You know me! I HATE ROH! HATE!

HATE HATE HATE!

HAHAHA AHAHAHAHA!

[KILLdozer]

Yeah I'm not sure if I'll be getting a direct response there or not.