Cero's Mid-Week Wrestling Review (April 23, 2015)

[cero2k]

Mid Week Wrestling Review
March 25, 2015

Good: The woman's match was definitely the highlight of the show, all three girls were on their game. They had a good amount of time, and the stipulation made the match feel important.

Bad: I would say the lack of direction that I see in Rhyno and Itami, their squashes were just that, squashed, and I don't feel like either is doing anything worth wild.

Change: It's a small change, i would have had Becky purposely pin Bayley, i rather have a sneaky heel pin, than a fluke pin.

Good: Can I just say the show itself? no, ok. The good goes to the commentary table for once, I think their natural delivery just made the show much more enjoyable, I felt like i was hanging out with some friends. This is what made JR awesome, his reactions, and now hearing Striker and Vampiro mark out at the match made the show awesome.

Bad: Since I have to mention something, I'm just gonna say the idea of Texano turning tecnico is not that good of an idea, likewise, Alberto acting so heelish with Mundo seems weird since he's still representing AAA.

Change: My change would only be to eliminate Ryk's team first and leave the super team for the upset win, this way Texano doesn't have to be attacked by Daivari, since now Daivari could attack Killshot or Mack. You still have Texano eat the Angelico pin.

Good: C'mon, where you expecting anything else than Dalton Castle? kidding aside, his match with Donovan Di-something was really good. Props to both men.

Bad: not a bad thing per say, but I've never been a fan of the 'live' fishtank in the ring, it's just not the type of thing i expect from ROH.

Change: Similar to the bad, I felt the Briscoe/Lethal interaction is a huge thing, and it happening because of the fish tank, not sure how to feel. Would have tried to find another way of having that. I guess it worked though, so it's not a set change that i have in mind.

Good: Gonna give the good to Kane, especially his unrated promo skills, I just felt his delivery and promo at the start of the show where great.

Bad: Why was Roman Reigns in the main event and not Randy Orton?

Change: I think everything points to Neville replacing Dragon this sunday, and potentially putting the IC title on him. I would have had this as a complete random thing for sunday, i felt the match they had kinda telegraphed that.

Promotion of the Week: Are you kidding me? LUCHA UNDERGROUND!!!.

MVP of the Week: Fucking Angelico. Underdog Angelico, Flying Angelico, Trios Champion Angelico. GOD DAMN!

[Big Red Machine]

Mid Week Wrestling Review
March 25, 2015

Change: My change would only be to eliminate Ryk's team first and leave the super team for the upset win, this way Texano doesn't have to be attacked by Daivari, since now Daivari could attack Killshot or Mack. You still have Texano eat the Angelico pin.

Or even better: just not have Daivari on the show at all.

[cero2k]

Mid Week Wrestling Review
March 25, 2015

Change: My change would only be to eliminate Ryk's team first and leave the super team for the upset win, this way Texano doesn't have to be attacked by Daivari, since now Daivari could attack Killshot or Mack. You still have Texano eat the Angelico pin.

Or even better: just not have Daivari on the show at all.

there's not a single guy that has been wrongly used in LU, they even made guys like Pimpinela and Mascarita were used correctly

[Big Red Machine]

Mid Week Wrestling Review
March 25, 2015

Change: My change would only be to eliminate Ryk's team first and leave the super team for the upset win, this way Texano doesn't have to be attacked by Daivari, since now Daivari could attack Killshot or Mack. You still have Texano eat the Angelico pin.

Or even better: just not have Daivari on the show at all.

there's not a single guy that has been wrongly used in LU, they even made guys like Pimpinela and Mascarita were used correctly

Yes, but most of those guys are more talented than Daivari. He's competent, but that's it. The roster is already getting overcrowded. They have one hour of TV a week and need to focus on:
Prince Puma
Johnny Mundo
Albero El Patron
Cage
Texano Jr.
Cuerno
Sexy Star
Pentagon Jr.
Chavo Guerrero Jr.
Mil Muertes
Fenix/Catrina
Black Lotus
Son of Havoc
Ivelisse
Angelico
The Crew
Big Ryck (& his pals)

Plus Dario, the Matanza stuff, the Gold from the Aztec tribes stuff, and anyone else they might want to bring in (like Rey).

They don't need another guy, and if they did need one, there a million better choices out there than Daivari. Yes, he got stuck with a gimmick that was doomed to failure in both WWE and TNA, but let's not forge that he didn't get over in any way in ROH, either. He's not a guy that you see doing tours of Japan or going to work for WWN to prove how under-utilized he was in WWE the way that a Drew McIntyre or Trent Barreta have done. He's just a dude who can occasionally look snazzy in a suit.

[cero2k]

Yes, but most of those guys are more talented than Daivari. He's competent, but that's it. The roster is already getting overcrowded. They have one hour of TV a week and need to focus on:
Prince Puma
Johnny Mundo
Albero El Patron
Cage
Texano Jr.
Cuerno
Sexy Star
Pentagon Jr.
Chavo Guerrero Jr.
Mil Muertes
Fenix/Catrina
Black Lotus
Son of Havoc
Ivelisse
Angelico
The Crew
Big Ryck (& his pals)

Plus Dario, the Matanza stuff, the Gold from the Aztec tribes stuff, and anyone else they might want to bring in (like Rey).

They don't need another guy, and if they did need one, there a million better choices out there than Daivari. Yes, he got stuck with a gimmick that was doomed to failure in both WWE and TNA, but let's not forge that he didn't get over in any way in ROH, either. He's not a guy that you see doing tours of Japan or going to work for WWN to prove how under-utilized he was in WWE the way that a Drew McIntyre or Trent Barreta have done. He's just a dude who can occasionally look snazzy in a suit.

And they're smart enough to not push everything into one show, and they're smart enough to always bring you back to the stories before the show, they have that down to the point, plus we're coming close to the end of the season, people will leave (Drago it seems), so they'll figure it out. And while Daivari may not be no Tanahashi in the ring, he still looks good and is a great actor, something that LU uses perfectly. LU is not ROH, it's not the 'we only bring in super wrestlers', LU tells stories and they need guys that look and act the part. Daivari is one that can.

[Big Red Machine]

Yes, but most of those guys are more talented than Daivari. He's competent, but that's it. The roster is already getting overcrowded. They have one hour of TV a week and need to focus on:
Prince Puma
Johnny Mundo
Albero El Patron
Cage
Texano Jr.
Cuerno
Sexy Star
Pentagon Jr.
Chavo Guerrero Jr.
Mil Muertes
Fenix/Catrina
Black Lotus
Son of Havoc
Ivelisse
Angelico
The Crew
Big Ryck (& his pals)

Plus Dario, the Matanza stuff, the Gold from the Aztec tribes stuff, and anyone else they might want to bring in (like Rey).

They don't need another guy, and if they did need one, there a million better choices out there than Daivari. Yes, he got stuck with a gimmick that was doomed to failure in both WWE and TNA, but let's not forge that he didn't get over in any way in ROH, either. He's not a guy that you see doing tours of Japan or going to work for WWN to prove how under-utilized he was in WWE the way that a Drew McIntyre or Trent Barreta have done. He's just a dude who can occasionally look snazzy in a suit.

And they're smart enough to not push everything into one show, and they're smart enough to always bring you back to the stories before the show, they have that down to the point, plus we're coming close to the end of the season, people will leave (Drago it seems), so they'll figure it out. And while Daivari may not be no Tanahashi in the ring, he still looks good and is a great actor, something that LU uses perfectly. LU is not ROH, it's not the 'we only bring in super wrestlers', LU tells stories and they need guys that look and act the part. Daivari is one that can.

No, they don't cram everything into one show, but it often feels like somethings are just completely forgotten about forever. Remember how Cage ripped the title in half, and how Dario said that the Lucha gods would be very unhappy about that? Or everything that thing where Chavo's assault on Blue Demon Jr. had angered forces in Mexico so they were going to send people to take him out? Or Sexy Star wanting to get revenge on The Crew for taking out her pals Pimpinella and Mascarita? Stuff definitely falls through the cracks a lot. Or how Alberto has a blood feud with Texano? Stuff falls through the cracks A LOT, and that shouldn't happen on LU (it shouldn't happen anywhere, but especially on LU, where the draw of the series was how great a job they did making everything mean something and have layers).
No, Daivari is not Certainly not Tanahashi. And yes, he may be able to act... but so can a bunch of other guys who are better in the ring than Daivari, and who don't automatically elicit groans from fans.

[cero2k]

No, they don't cram everything into one show, but it often feels like somethings are just completely forgotten about forever. Remember how Cage ripped the title in half, and how Dario said that the Lucha gods would be very unhappy about that? Or everything that thing where Chavo's assault on Blue Demon Jr. had angered forces in Mexico so they were going to send people to take him out? Or Sexy Star wanting to get revenge on The Crew for taking out her pals Pimpinella and Mascarita? Stuff definitely falls through the cracks a lot. Or how Alberto has a blood feud with Texano? Stuff falls through the cracks A LOT, and that shouldn't happen on LU (it shouldn't happen anywhere, but especially on LU, where the draw of the series was how great a job they did making everything mean something and have layers).
No, Daivari is not Certainly not Tanahashi. And yes, he may be able to act... but so can a bunch of other guys who are better in the ring than Daivari, and who don't automatically elicit groans from fans.

Sexy Star did get revenge when she helped out Ryk. the Gods comment you can't really take it as Gods will literally come down and punish Cage, not even in LU we are to believe Gods exist. Alberto and Texano had their blow off match already, Alberto won, let's move on, evne you said that you didn't want the AAA title to be featured that much in LU cuz it would make the LU title seem lower. The Chavo stuff, yeah maybe, but it's not like we're gonna see a bunch of guys coming over to take on Chavo, that would be like Chavo running a gauntlet and that's a babyface thing to do. You're taking things wwaay to literally, but i'll tell you this, you heard Alvarez and Vinny this morning say it too, LU definitely pays off their storylines, so much can happen in between, but there is always a payoff.

Who, middle easterner looking, with good physic and decent in the ring, free-agent, annnd that can act can you think of that is better than Daivari right now?

[Big Red Machine]

No, they don't cram everything into one show, but it often feels like somethings are just completely forgotten about forever. Remember how Cage ripped the title in half, and how Dario said that the Lucha gods would be very unhappy about that? Or everything that thing where Chavo's assault on Blue Demon Jr. had angered forces in Mexico so they were going to send people to take him out? Or Sexy Star wanting to get revenge on The Crew for taking out her pals Pimpinella and Mascarita? Stuff definitely falls through the cracks a lot. Or how Alberto has a blood feud with Texano? Stuff falls through the cracks A LOT, and that shouldn't happen on LU (it shouldn't happen anywhere, but especially on LU, where the draw of the series was how great a job they did making everything mean something and have layers).
No, Daivari is not Certainly not Tanahashi. And yes, he may be able to act... but so can a bunch of other guys who are better in the ring than Daivari, and who don't automatically elicit groans from fans.

Sexy Star did get revenge when she helped out Ryk. the Gods comment you can't really take it as Gods will literally come down and punish Cage, not even in LU we are to believe Gods exist. Alberto and Texano had their blow off match already, Alberto won, let's move on, evne you said that you didn't want the AAA title to be featured that much in LU cuz it would make the LU title seem lower. The Chavo stuff, yeah maybe, but it's not like we're gonna see a bunch of guys coming over to take on Chavo, that would be like Chavo running a gauntlet and that's a babyface thing to do. You're taking things wwaay to literally, but i'll tell you this, you heard Alvarez and Vinny this morning say it too, LU definitely pays off their storylines, so much can happen in between, but there is always a payoff.

Who, middle easterner looking, with good physic and decent in the ring, free-agent, annnd that can act can you think of that is better than Daivari right now?

Re Sexy Star and The Crew... okay, I guess, but it's kind of lame considering how much she said she wanted it and considering that this is the second straight feud (first with Chavo and now with The Crew) where she only got the "secondary" revenge.

Re the lucha gods being angry... no, I'm not expecting Cage to be struck by lightning, but I'm expecting some sort of development in some way. Some sort of revelation of why having gold from all seven tribes matters, or some Lucha traditionalists coming in and being angry at Cage for this iconoclasm. Just... SOMETHING.

Re Alberto and Texano- one match is the whole feud? Come on! At that point it's better to just have not brought Texano in at all.

Re Chavo- I'm not saying do an actual gauntlet match, but maybe someone jumps him backstage or something. It doesn't really make him a babyface if this is punishment for him assaulting a legend. And this is supposed to be Lucha Underground, where you can make things like that work.

I don't think I'm taking things too literally. The way they shoot their show, it seems to me that if they are going to put focus on these things, then these things are supposed to matter. That hasn't been happening. Why develop this mythical backdrop so richly if it's not going to matter? Why focus on things- why make them mysteries, if there isn't some bigger plot at work here?

[cero2k]

Re Sexy Star and The Crew... okay, I guess, but it's kind of lame considering how much she said she wanted it and considering that this is the second straight feud (first with Chavo and now with The Crew) where she only got the "secondary" revenge.
she also had a pin on them, it's not like she needs to destroy them or anything

Re the lucha gods being angry... no, I'm not expecting Cage to be struck by lightning, but I'm expecting some sort of development in some way. Some sort of revelation of why having gold from all seven tribes matters, or some Lucha traditionalists coming in and being angry at Cage for this iconoclasm. Just... SOMETHING.
you get to be the champion, what else should we expect, it's not like we're getting super powers. Let's just say Puma got luck and strength to defeat cage

Re Alberto and Texano- one match is the whole feud? Come on! At that point it's better to just have not brought Texano in at all.
why rehash a whole feud that already happened in AAA weeks before? Texano lost his last chance at the title, move on

Re Chavo- I'm not saying do an actual gauntlet match, but maybe someone jumps him backstage or something. It doesn't really make him a babyface if this is punishment for him assaulting a legend. And this is supposed to be Lucha Underground, where you can make things like that work.
this is the exact thing you'd say that makes Chavo the babyface. Would it been cool to seem something like that? yeah, was it necessary to develop their story? no, he was already feuding with Sexy Star

I don't think I'm taking things too literally. The way they shoot their show, it seems to me that if they are going to put focus on these things, then these things are supposed to matter. That hasn't been happening. Why develop this mythical backdrop so richly if it's not going to matter? Why focus on things- why make them mysteries, if there isn't some bigger plot at work here?
then if not literally, you're looking to much into it, like the Red Bull, i'm sure it doesn't mean anything, it's just a red bull on his desk, maybe one day it will mean something, no point in expecting something right now if there's really nothing going around it

[Big Red Machine]

Re Sexy Star and The Crew... okay, I guess, but it's kind of lame considering how much she said she wanted it and considering that this is the second straight feud (first with Chavo and now with The Crew) where she only got the "secondary" revenge.
she also had a pin on them, it's not like she needs to destroy them or anything
I don't remember her getting a pin on them, which isn't good because it means it didn't have impact. Did she need to destroy them? No. But did she even get revenge on all three of them?

Re the lucha gods being angry... no, I'm not expecting Cage to be struck by lightning, but I'm expecting some sort of development in some way. Some sort of revelation of why having gold from all seven tribes matters, or some Lucha traditionalists coming in and being angry at Cage for this iconoclasm. Just... SOMETHING.
you get to be the champion, what else should we expect, it's not like we're getting super powers. Let's just say Puma got luck and strength to defeat cage
I'm not saying that the belt gives you superpowers. I'm saying that they heavily implied that the fact that the title belt has gold from all seven tribes means that it is more than just a simple title belt. There is something going on there. Or else why point out that it has gold from all seven tribes rather than just say "it's a title belt" like they did with the trios titles? Why have Dario hold the ripped title belt up and say “the gods are not going to be pleased about this.” Something needs to come of that.

Re Alberto and Texano- one match is the whole feud? Come on! At that point it's better to just have not brought Texano in at all.
why rehash a whole feud that already happened in AAA weeks before? Texano lost his last chance at the title, move on
If you're not going to rehash the feud, why go back to it at all? Why not just let Alberto and Texano come in separately (which is what I would have preferred that they did)?
Re Chavo- I'm not saying do an actual gauntlet match, but maybe someone jumps him backstage or something. It doesn't really make him a babyface if this is punishment for him assaulting a legend. And this is supposed to be Lucha Underground, where you can make things like that work.
this is the exact thing you'd say that makes Chavo the babyface. Would it been cool to seem something like that? yeah, was it necessary to develop their story? no, he was already feuding with Sexy Star
Under normal circumstances it would... except that not only does Chavo deserve it, but that segment between Chavo and Konnan made it seem like the people coming after Chavo would not be the most pure and virtuous of technicos. Konnan made it sound more like people would be sending hit-men after Chavo. And if ever there was a show that was designed to make heel vs. heel doable and doable well, it was Lucha Underground.
I don't think I'm taking things too literally. The way they shoot their show, it seems to me that if they are going to put focus on these things, then these things are supposed to matter. That hasn't been happening. Why develop this mythical backdrop so richly if it's not going to matter? Why focus on things- why make them mysteries, if there isn't some bigger plot at work here?
then if not literally, you're looking to much into it, like the Red Bull, i'm sure it doesn't mean anything, it's just a red bull on his desk, maybe one day it will mean something, no point in expecting something right now if there's really nothing going around it
Maybe I'm looking too much into things, but aside from the red bull (which I will totally admit is just me guessing based on its prominent positioning in most of the shot's of Dario's desk- almost like you would do blocking with actors), I think that if I am looking into things too much, it's because they pointed me in those directions with all of their set-up.

[cero2k]

Re Sexy Star and The Crew... okay, I guess, but it's kind of lame considering how much she said she wanted it and considering that this is the second straight feud (first with Chavo and now with The Crew) where she only got the "secondary" revenge.
she also had a pin on them, it's not like she needs to destroy them or anything
I don't remember her getting a pin on them, which isn't good because it means it didn't have impact. Did she need to destroy them? No. But did she even get revenge on all three of them?
she pinned them when Zeke distracted them, she then payed off the favor and took them out with Zeke. good enough

Re the lucha gods being angry... no, I'm not expecting Cage to be struck by lightning, but I'm expecting some sort of development in some way. Some sort of revelation of why having gold from all seven tribes matters, or some Lucha traditionalists coming in and being angry at Cage for this iconoclasm. Just... SOMETHING.
you get to be the champion, what else should we expect, it's not like we're getting super powers. Let's just say Puma got luck and strength to defeat cage
I'm not saying that the belt gives you superpowers. I'm saying that they heavily implied that the fact that the title belt has gold from all seven tribes means that it is more than just a simple title belt. There is something going on there. Or else why point out that it has gold from all seven tribes rather than just say "it's a title belt" like they did with the trios titles? Why have Dario hold the ripped title belt up and say “the gods are not going to be pleased about this.” Something needs to come of that.
it being gold from the seven tribes makes it rare gold, thus the champions have a unique title, that's good enough. Dario's part is just drama, doesn't need to foreshadow anything, he had the broken title and he made a new one.

Re Alberto and Texano- one match is the whole feud? Come on! At that point it's better to just have not brought Texano in at all.
why rehash a whole feud that already happened in AAA weeks before? Texano lost his last chance at the title, move on
If you're not going to rehash the feud, why go back to it at all? Why not just let Alberto and Texano come in separately (which is what I would have preferred that they did)?
that would have made it harder to intro Texano, would have been harder to intro Alberto into a feud that meant something, sell the AAA title, and you can sell the AAA feud too so people go watch that. I would have find it annoying if they rehashed the whole feud since it just happened and they can simply make reference to it

Re Chavo- I'm not saying do an actual gauntlet match, but maybe someone jumps him backstage or something. It doesn't really make him a babyface if this is punishment for him assaulting a legend. And this is supposed to be Lucha Underground, where you can make things like that work.
this is the exact thing you'd say that makes Chavo the babyface. Would it been cool to seem something like that? yeah, was it necessary to develop their story? no, he was already feuding with Sexy Star
Under normal circumstances it would... except that not only does Chavo deserve it, but that segment between Chavo and Konnan made it seem like the people coming after Chavo would not be the most pure and virtuous of technicos. Konnan made it sound more like people would be sending hit-men after Chavo. And if ever there was a show that was designed to make heel vs. heel doable and doable well, it was Lucha Underground.
fair enough, but the storyline still played out in a nice way, Sexy and Demon had their revenge and Chavo quit, so one random sentence in a random show got ignored or not followed up, this does not diminish the overall quality that LU has at all

I don't think I'm taking things too literally. The way they shoot their show, it seems to me that if they are going to put focus on these things, then these things are supposed to matter. That hasn't been happening. Why develop this mythical backdrop so richly if it's not going to matter? Why focus on things- why make them mysteries, if there isn't some bigger plot at work here?
then if not literally, you're looking to much into it, like the Red Bull, i'm sure it doesn't mean anything, it's just a red bull on his desk, maybe one day it will mean something, no point in expecting something right now if there's really nothing going around it
Maybe I'm looking too much into things, but aside from the red bull (which I will totally admit is just me guessing based on its prominent positioning in most of the shot's of Dario's desk- almost like you would do blocking with actors), I think that if I am looking into things too much, it's because they pointed me in those directions with all of their set-up.
this show is designed to be visually appealing, in any other wrestling show in the world, i can understand that object placing may mean something, but this is not like any other wrestling show in the world, LU is unique in having a film director in the production side

[Big Red Machine]

Re Sexy Star and The Crew... okay, I guess, but it's kind of lame considering how much she said she wanted it and considering that this is the second straight feud (first with Chavo and now with The Crew) where she only got the "secondary" revenge.
she also had a pin on them, it's not like she needs to destroy them or anything
I don't remember her getting a pin on them, which isn't good because it means it didn't have impact. Did she need to destroy them? No. But did she even get revenge on all three of them?
she pinned them when Zeke distracted them, she then payed off the favor and took them out with Zeke. good enough
Okay. That works
Re the lucha gods being angry... no, I'm not expecting Cage to be struck by lightning, but I'm expecting some sort of development in some way. Some sort of revelation of why having gold from all seven tribes matters, or some Lucha traditionalists coming in and being angry at Cage for this iconoclasm. Just... SOMETHING.
you get to be the champion, what else should we expect, it's not like we're getting super powers. Let's just say Puma got luck and strength to defeat cage
I'm not saying that the belt gives you superpowers. I'm saying that they heavily implied that the fact that the title belt has gold from all seven tribes means that it is more than just a simple title belt. There is something going on there. Or else why point out that it has gold from all seven tribes rather than just say "it's a title belt" like they did with the trios titles? Why have Dario hold the ripped title belt up and say “the gods are not going to be pleased about this.” Something needs to come of that.
it being gold from the seven tribes makes it rare gold, thus the champions have a unique title, that's good enough. Dario's part is just drama, doesn't need to foreshadow anything, he had the broken title and he made a new one.
I don't buy that. Why have the whole "seven tribes" backdrop and all of that? Why spend time on it in the beginning if it wasn't going to matter. Why have Dario say anything? Why do that whole scene with Dario and Matanza where Dario said he couldn't give Matanza the belt because Matanza would destroy it and that would be bad? Why have Dario even show the belt to Matanza in the first place?


Re Chavo- I'm not saying do an actual gauntlet match, but maybe someone jumps him backstage or something. It doesn't really make him a babyface if this is punishment for him assaulting a legend. And this is supposed to be Lucha Underground, where you can make things like that work.
this is the exact thing you'd say that makes Chavo the babyface. Would it been cool to seem something like that? yeah, was it necessary to develop their story? no, he was already feuding with Sexy Star
Under normal circumstances it would... except that not only does Chavo deserve it, but that segment between Chavo and Konnan made it seem like the people coming after Chavo would not be the most pure and virtuous of technicos. Konnan made it sound more like people would be sending hit-men after Chavo. And if ever there was a show that was designed to make heel vs. heel doable and doable well, it was Lucha Underground.
fair enough, but the storyline still played out in a nice way, Sexy and Demon had their revenge and Chavo quit, so one random sentence in a random show got ignored or not followed up, this does not diminish the overall quality that LU has at all
They did wrap that one up decently well, but I don't see it as just one random sentence not being followed up on. It's been a lot more than that (and I'll get to all of that below)


I don't think I'm taking things too literally. The way they shoot their show, it seems to me that if they are going to put focus on these things, then these things are supposed to matter. That hasn't been happening. Why develop this mythical backdrop so richly if it's not going to matter? Why focus on things- why make them mysteries, if there isn't some bigger plot at work here?
then if not literally, you're looking to much into it, like the Red Bull, i'm sure it doesn't mean anything, it's just a red bull on his desk, maybe one day it will mean something, no point in expecting something right now if there's really nothing going around it
Maybe I'm looking too much into things, but aside from the red bull (which I will totally admit is just me guessing based on its prominent positioning in most of the shot's of Dario's desk- almost like you would do blocking with actors), I think that if I am looking into things too much, it's because they pointed me in those directions with all of their set-up.
this show is designed to be visually appealing, in any other wrestling show in the world, i can understand that object placing may mean something, but this is not like any other wrestling show in the world, LU is unique in having a film director in the production side
Yes. That's part of that I mean when I say it was supposed to be so unique and different. But there were/are other things, too. The whole "this is wrestling presented as any other TV show, not as a kayfabe sporting event" feel with the lack of replays and the fantastic camera angles in the backstage segments. All of the backdrop with the tribes and calling the place the "temple" and Matanza and Black Lotus and all of that stuff. That was the other half of how the show was designed to be different.

Dave wrote something a few months ago about a big internal struggle in the company where creative was split as to what the product should be, with some wanting a more "American" style show and others wanting to stick to the original idea with the video packages and the heavy Lucha focus and the backstage stuff with a bunch of different camera angles and the backstories... and over the past few months, I've really started to feel like the "American style" side won out. We've been getting a lot more rushed feuds and rushing into title matches and gimmick matches and a lot less backstage segments to build up the characters and less focus on the "backstory" of things and the gradual mysteries such as Matanza.
It's not the show I loved for the first few months. It feels like any other wresting show now, albeit with better acting and better production values.

[cero2k]

I don't buy that. Why have the whole "seven tribes" backdrop and all of that? Why spend time on it in the beginning if it wasn't going to matter. Why have Dario say anything? Why do that whole scene with Dario and Matanza where Dario said he couldn't give Matanza the belt because Matanza would destroy it and that would be bad? Why have Dario even show the belt to Matanza in the first place?
Anything to do with Matanza you can't ask yet because that story is still unfolding. Why would dario hype up his title belt? exactly that, to hype up that this is rare gold and that this title is better than anything else.


Yes. That's part of that I mean when I say it was supposed to be so unique and different. But there were/are other things, too. The whole "this is wrestling presented as any other TV show, not as a kayfabe sporting event" feel with the lack of replays and the fantastic camera angles in the backstage segments. All of the backdrop with the tribes and calling the place the "temple" and Matanza and Black Lotus and all of that stuff. That was the other half of how the show was designed to be different.

Dave wrote something a few months ago about a big internal struggle in the company where creative was split as to what the product should be, with some wanting a more "American" style show and others wanting to stick to the original idea with the video packages and the heavy Lucha focus and the backstage stuff with a bunch of different camera angles and the backstories... and over the past few months, I've really started to feel like the "American style" side won out. We've been getting a lot more rushed feuds and rushing into title matches and gimmick matches and a lot less backstage segments to build up the characters and less focus on the "backstory" of things and the gradual mysteries such as Matanza.
It's not the show I loved for the first few months. It feels like any other wresting show now, albeit with better acting and better production values.

but they also brought in a whole lot more people, you can't take your sweet time with King Cuerno vignettes anymore if you want to cover several storylines per show, but you still have the awesome backstage segments and at this point we know most of the people involved already, the relevant ones at least. I completely disagree on the american style winning, to me the american style is having a feud go over and over and over with small matches and promos and all, i'm still getting the awesome cinematic experience with the feuds that NEED that experience, i honestly believe that not all stories need those backstage segments. Some speak by themselves inside the ring. The 'rushed' feuds are natural too, they're coming close to the end of the season and thus some stuff needs to be wrapped up, but for every rushed one, the trios win was something that had been brewing since day 1. Drago vs Aerostar was a long program too. This Mundo/Alberto is not rushed either. These guys are not building up to a PPV show, they threat each show as a PPV that can and should have top stuff. At first i too felt they were rushing things, but now i see that it's not rushed, it's just a quality product that only needs to build to the season finale, which I can already see happening. Even if I was wrong, rushing things is giving us a product that keeps every fan on the edge of their seats, there is not a single show that you end not wanting more, something that no other wrestling show today provokes

[Big Red Machine]

I don't buy that. Why have the whole "seven tribes" backdrop and all of that? Why spend time on it in the beginning if it wasn't going to matter. Why have Dario say anything? Why do that whole scene with Dario and Matanza where Dario said he couldn't give Matanza the belt because Matanza would destroy it and that would be bad? Why have Dario even show the belt to Matanza in the first place?
Anything to do with Matanza you can't ask yet because that story is still unfolding. Why would dario hype up his title belt? exactly that, to hype up that this is rare gold and that this title is better than anything else.

My point is that the scene with Matanza was used to both draw attention to the gold in the belt and to hint at Matanza's character.
My point is that they could have said ANYTHING to hype up the belt. They could have made a belt with tons of jewels in it or a historical belt that they could claim has a lot of prestige. Instead they chose to specifically call attention to the fact that a property of the belt ties into the historical/mythological backstory.
Yes. That's part of that I mean when I say it was supposed to be so unique and different. But there were/are other things, too. The whole "this is wrestling presented as any other TV show, not as a kayfabe sporting event" feel with the lack of replays and the fantastic camera angles in the backstage segments. All of the backdrop with the tribes and calling the place the "temple" and Matanza and Black Lotus and all of that stuff. That was the other half of how the show was designed to be different.

Dave wrote something a few months ago about a big internal struggle in the company where creative was split as to what the product should be, with some wanting a more "American" style show and others wanting to stick to the original idea with the video packages and the heavy Lucha focus and the backstage stuff with a bunch of different camera angles and the backstories... and over the past few months, I've really started to feel like the "American style" side won out. We've been getting a lot more rushed feuds and rushing into title matches and gimmick matches and a lot less backstage segments to build up the characters and less focus on the "backstory" of things and the gradual mysteries such as Matanza.
It's not the show I loved for the first few months. It feels like any other wresting show now, albeit with better acting and better production values.

but they also brought in a whole lot more people, you can't take your sweet time with King Cuerno vignettes anymore if you want to cover several storylines per show, but you still have the awesome backstage segments and at this point we know most of the people involved already, the relevant ones at least. I completely disagree on the american style winning, to me the american style is having a feud go over and over and over with small matches and promos and all, i'm still getting the awesome cinematic experience with the feuds that NEED that experience, i honestly believe that not all stories need those backstage segments. Some speak by themselves inside the ring. The 'rushed' feuds are natural too, they're coming close to the end of the season and thus some stuff needs to be wrapped up, but for every rushed one, the trios win was something that had been brewing since day 1. Drago vs Aerostar was a long program too. This Mundo/Alberto is not rushed either. These guys are not building up to a PPV show, they threat each show as a PPV that can and should have top stuff. At first i too felt they were rushing things, but now i see that it's not rushed, it's just a quality product that only needs to build to the season finale, which I can already see happening. Even if I was wrong, rushing things is giving us a product that keeps every fan on the edge of their seats, there is not a single show that you end not wanting more, something that no other wrestling show today provokes
No, you can't just waste time by showing King Cuerno staring off of buildings, but if Sexy Star's mask is so important to her and there is a backstory there (which Vamp and Striker have talked about at length), then THAT is something they should be using a vignette to tell us about.
There are awesome backstage segments, but those are usually ones that involve Konnan, Mundo, Puma, Alberto, or Dario (or Ryck). When we don't have at least two of those two interacting, it's just like any other show but with better production values.

As for things being rushed- most of these feel like incomplete feuds to me. It's not because they don't have a bunch of matches or segments in them. It's because it immediately feels like they rush to a big gimmick match blow-off without any good set-up for it.
I also don't like things like Cuerno just immediately being given a title shot. The announcers act like this is some sort of super-anticipated match when it isn't. If they had spent a week or two building it up, it would have been.
You can treat every show like a PPV and still build things up. That's what Gabe (and usually Pearce, too) did in ROH for years because (especially in the Gabe Era) the business model was to make every DVD a must-buy. CHIKARA did a great job of making every show feel like a must-see show as well by the way they set things up.
Yes, there have been some things that have built up well, but there has been a lot of stuff that hasn't. I agree that Drago vs. Aerostar is an example of something that didn't need backstage segments, but there has been a lot stuff that did that I felt didn't get them.
I think they should be focusing on more stories, thus allowing them to slow the pace of their stories down. Take advantage of their biggest strength (the vignettes and backstage segments) and use that to make things feel bigger- to bring out the humanity and emotions of the characters, and thus those of the audience as well). That's the sort of thing I thought they were doing well in the beginning but aren't anymore. Everything you said about Lucha Underground being the one show that really leaves you on the edge of your seat and wanting more used to be true for me... but it isn't anymore, and it hasn't been for a few months (since Aztec Warfare)

[Big Red Machine]

HA! I was totally right about this! I'm in the middle of the Killshot vs. King Cuerno match on the 7/15 show and Striker just said something along the lines of "ancient tribes and ancient civilizations. I'm sure there's more to the story there."