Dave Meltzer on the AJ Styles Storyline (minor spoilers)

[Big Red Machine]

The A.J. Styles/Dixie Carter main storyline became even worse of a copy of C.M. Punk in 2011. Not only did they badly copy the one angle that can never work again for years because everyone sees through the fake contract expiring while going for the title, but they even copied the dumb part. So Styles is allowed to challenge for the title without a contract and wins it. Then, Dixie, afraid of losing her champion, panics and offers him all kinds of zeroes. Then, when in position to garner the contract, he turns it down. Then, without a contract, he turns it down, when the whole pre-BFG storyline was him winning the title to get leverage to get a giant contract. Then, even with no contract, he puts everything he's got on the line because he loves the fans. Then, when he wins, he says he's leaving. Why would he have ever defended it in the first place? And then after he left, Dixie announces she's holding an eight-man tournament for the title, which will take place on the 11/7 tapings. The entrants will be Magnus, Samoa Joe, Austin Aries, Kurt Angle, Jeff Hardy, James Storm, Chris Sabin and Bobby Roode. Yes, no Bully Ray in the tournament. In other words, they are telling everyone that the whole Bound For Glory storyline meant nothing because she can just create a new champion and it made no sense that she'd be in such a panic to keep him or to have him not win in the first place for fear he'd leave because he did and she just creating a new champion. But since WWE, when Punk left, created a tournament for the title, which ended making no sense since they brought Punk back immediately, I guess TNA has to do the same thing. This was like watching Russo's WCW in 2000 where you just render the titles beyond worthless and make it impossible to take seriously any storylines.

[Big Red Machine]

It's interesting. I had never thought off it as doing damage to the value of the titles if someone can just make a title to replace it. I think it will work so long as we are reminded in various ways that it is not the "real" TNA world title, and that the lineage is broken, but I see Dave's point.
I wonder if they could have Sabin or Abyss go around saying that their belt now deserves to be the top one in TNA because the new world title isn't the real one. It would be a good way to write out the TV Title by unifying it with the new title, and it actually give the new title a small modicum of prestige.

[cero2k]

i disagree with Dave, crowing a new champion doesn't mean anything, unless TNA lets it run too long. It's stupid to think that fans will simply eat the idea that a new champion was crowned, we all know Styles is the real champion, just like we knew Punk was the real champion and we all knew Cenas' title meant shit, even if Cole and Lawler sold it like the real deal. And this storyline won't take any prestige away from the title, the other way around. TNA is achieving something that WWE hasn't done in decades, and that's put the World back in World Title.

unfortunately, i don't want to get too optimistic. for this to work, tna needs to be start, they're off to a good start in my opinion, but they need to hold it in their pants. They'll be taping the tournament soon, hopefully they're smart enough to 1) pace it out and not just run a one night tournament and 2) don't pre-tape the finals, run that live, that is 100% essential.

I like the idea of having the other titles claim to be to the top of the company, unfortunately that doesn't work for abyss, and while it's perfect for this current Sabin, he being in the tourny kinda kills it, since he's fighting for a title he knows is bigger than his.

[Big Red Machine]

i disagree with Dave, crowing a new champion doesn't mean anything, unless TNA lets it run too long. It's stupid to think that fans will simply eat the idea that a new champion was crowned, we all know Styles is the real champion, just like we knew Punk was the real champion and we all knew Cenas' title meant s**t, even if Cole and Lawler sold it like the real deal.

Well that's the question. How long do they let this go for. My guess was going to be until Slammiversary (maybe have AJ crash the first show after Lockdown. Genesis seems like the perfect time for the finals of the tournament).

And this storyline won't take any prestige away from the title, the other way around. TNA is achieving something that WWE hasn't done in decades, and that's put the World back in World Title.

It all depends on your viewpoint. TNA is having the belt in other promotions, yes, but both WWE World Titles are defended more often in a lot more countries than the TNA Title is.

I like the idea of having the other titles claim to be to the top of the company, unfortunately that doesn't work for abyss, and while it's perfect for this current Sabin, he being in the tourny kinda kills it, since he's fighting for a title he knows is bigger than his.

I think it could work in a heelish way to have Sabin first lose in the tournament (especially if you have his own cheating backfire on him) and then after the tournament have him be a sore loser and claim that his title is bigger than the new world title.

[cero2k]

Well that's the question. How long do they let this go for. My guess was going to be until Slammiversary (maybe have AJ crash the first show after Lockdown. Genesis seems like the perfect time for the finals of the tournament).

exactly, too long will make the new title holder a legit champ for having him run feuds and defenses. too short won't give AJ time to create more buzz. Genesis would be perfect, that gives AJ pretty much 2 almost 3 months to visit some places and create some buzz, and very importantly, TNA needs to find a way other than Dixie bitching about Styles to remind the fans about AJ being out there with the title.

It all depends on your viewpoint. TNA is having the belt in other promotions, yes, but both WWE World Titles are defended more often in a lot more countries than the TNA Title is.

but WWE defends them within the company, that doesn't make a title a world title. You need to defend it against challengers from around the world. the ROH title got renamed as world title when joe defeated zebra kid in london, same with the pwg during the European vacation with Joey Ryan vs Jonny Storm.

[Big Red Machine]

Well that's the question. How long do they let this go for. My guess was going to be until Slammiversary (maybe have AJ crash the first show after Lockdown. Genesis seems like the perfect time for the finals of the tournament).

exactly, too long will make the new title holder a legit champ for having him run feuds and defenses. too short won't give AJ time to create more buzz. Genesis would be perfect, that gives AJ pretty much 2 almost 3 months to visit some places and create some buzz, and very importantly, TNA needs to find a way other than Dixie bitching about Styles to remind the fans about AJ being out there with the title.

I disagree. Genesis is too soon. Isn't the whole point of the eventual Champion vs. Champion match that BOTH champs have some legitimacy? Lockdown is the earliest you could do the match (and it helps because Dixie can't interfere and screw AJ... although, of course, she can by ordering the cage door opened, and letting people interfere, which will be a nice, unique story for this match).

It all depends on your viewpoint. TNA is having the belt in other promotions, yes, but both WWE World Titles are defended more often in a lot more countries than the TNA Title is.

but WWE defends them within the company, that doesn't make a title a world title. You need to defend it against challengers from around the world. the ROH title got renamed as world title when joe defeated zebra kid in london, same with the pwg during the European vacation with Joey Ryan vs Jonny Storm.

And the European Vacation shows were PWG shows. WWE does the same thing. They defend the belt in other countries on WWE tours of that country. EXACTLY like European Vacation or the New Japan shows in the US from last year.
When Joe made the belt a world title, the emphasis that Gabe put on it wasn't that he was defending the belt in another promotion. It was that he was defending the belt in another country.

[cero2k]

I disagree. Genesis is too soon. Isn't the whole point of the eventual Champion vs. Champion match that BOTH champs have some legitimacy? Lockdown is the earliest you could do the match (and it helps because Dixie can't interfere and screw AJ... although, of course, she can by ordering the cage door opened, and letting people interfere, which will be a nice, unique story for this match).

don't get me wrong, i agree that it would be best to run long and lockdown would be a good point with slammiversary being the big champion vs champion blow out right before they start the new BFG series, but it's dangerous to do it, TNA will really really need to up their shit to keep Styles relevant so long without being on impact weekly.

And the European Vacation shows were PWG shows. WWE does the same thing. They defend the belt in other countries on WWE tours of that country. EXACTLY like European Vacation or the New Japan shows in the US from last year.
When Joe made the belt a world title, the emphasis that Gabe put on it wasn't that he was defending the belt in another promotion. It was that he was defending the belt in another country.

the difference is that WWE doesn't bring outside challengers from the countries they visit during their visits. PWG got Jonny Storm for EV.

[Big Red Machine]

I disagree. Genesis is too soon. Isn't the whole point of the eventual Champion vs. Champion match that BOTH champs have some legitimacy? Lockdown is the earliest you could do the match (and it helps because Dixie can't interfere and screw AJ... although, of course, she can by ordering the cage door opened, and letting people interfere, which will be a nice, unique story for this match).

don't get me wrong, i agree that it would be best to run long and lockdown would be a good point with slammiversary being the big champion vs champion blow out right before they start the new BFG series, but it's dangerous to do it, TNA will really really need to up their s**t to keep Styles relevant so long without being on impact weekly.

It depends what they are willing to do. AJ defending the belt all the time in just AAA and World-1 will get old quickly, but if they are willing to let him go to New Japan or NOAH or 1PW, or PWG or even ROH, (I assume going to CMLL is out of the question) they will be able to make the angle last longer. Maybe a monthly youtube video from AJ. You need him to be on people's minds, but not all of the time. Maybe occasionally have James Storm or Joe talk to someone named "AJ" on the phone while waiting to cut their promos, have bad Influence throw a party because they have finally driven AJ out of the company, etc.

And the European Vacation shows were PWG shows. WWE does the same thing. They defend the belt in other countries on WWE tours of that country. EXACTLY like European Vacation or the New Japan shows in the US from last year.
When Joe made the belt a world title, the emphasis that Gabe put on it wasn't that he was defending the belt in another promotion. It was that he was defending the belt in another country.

the difference is that WWE doesn't bring outside challengers from the countries they visit during their visits. PWG got Jonny Storm for EV.

But from WWE's POV, they have all of the best wrestlers in the world, so why would they give some British chump a title shot when they have William Regal?

[cero2k]

But from WWE's POV, they have all of the best wrestlers in the world, so why would they give some British chump a title shot when they have William Regal?

well yeah, in their own kayfabe, they may as well call it the universe heavyweight title. same way a small promotion in god knows where can simply call their title a world title and ignore whoever disagrees with them. But neither of those make your title what you claim it to be.