BRM Reviews the 9/24/2012 Raw

[Big Red Machine]

OPENING SEGMENT- The stuff with the referee was good (and hooray for FCW talent!), but after that , it went way downhill. By turning him into a paranoid, they have just killed the Punk character’s credibility. Not his in—ring credibility, but the integrity that is so important to Punk’s character. And insinuating that he slept with AJ (i.e. that he took advantage of a woman who was not in her right mind and hopelessly infatuated with him) is just so not Punk. Then having Paul mock AJ was something that just clearly put there so that AJ could get a pop for slapping him.

Okay, I will admit to having no fashion sense, but even I know that a blouse, tie, and suit jacket don’t go with sneakers and Sophies.

AJ & THE REF BACKSTAGE- GREAT! At least they aren’t playing her off as pure babyface.

KOFI KINGSTON (w/R-Truth) vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER (w/Vickie Guerrero)- 6.25/10
A very good match, and even better, a CLEAN WIN FOR DOLPH!

TEAM FRIENDSHIP SEGMENT- I agree with Kane’s first words in this segment. “This is stupid.”

SANTINO MARELLA & ZACK RYDER vs. THE PRIME TIME PLAYERS- 1/10
Very, very short, but PTP won! I was scared that they would job them out to the Cobra.

CM PUNK & MICK FOLEY SEGMENT- HORRIBLE!
This segment had a few major flaws. First, Foley tells Punk that he is disappointed that he is hanging out with Heyman. He says that Heyman is bad for Punk, but never gives any examples (and the only example of Heyman kayfabe screwing a client that I can think of is Betraying Brock for Big Show, so Foley’s accusations here seem unwarranted). Furthermore, Punk’s behavior has not changed much since he started hanging out with Heyman (he has been coming out and demanding respect since the 1000th Raw, a month before he started hanging out with Heyman), so it’s not like Hyeman is a bad or amoral influence on Punk’s behavior.
The whole point of this was Foley trying to talk Punk into facing Cena in a Hell in a Cell match. Foley says that Punk needs to do this in order be a legend. Punk then says that his long title reign makes him a legend. Foley says that moments make legends, not long title reigns. In some cases, yes, this is true. Guys like Foley and Sting definitely got short-changed in the title-run department (in terms of lengthy runs). Their careers are legendary for the moments. Moments have also been a big part of the legendary careers of guys like Austin, Rock, Taker, HBK, and Triple H. But then you have guys like Bruno, Bret, Hogan, Flair, and RVD. Guys whose careers aren’t made of legendary moments as much as they are guys who were super-over for a long time and had long title reigns… so a long title reign could easily make Punk a legend without ever setting foot in Hell in a Cell (or rather setting foot in it again… I’ll get to that later).
Foley says that a Hell in a Cell match and a Hell in a Cell moment would make Punk a legend and get him the respect he wants from the fans. To illustrate this point, he rattles off three names: Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, and Triple H (as well as himself). The problem with this is that if you took Hell in a Cell out of these guys’ careers, they wouldn’t be any less legendary (Taker’s MAYBE, but that is only because it was considered a signature match of his, rather than because he had many legendary HIAC matches/moments).

Even worse is the fact that Punk has already had major, career-defining moments without the need for Hell in a Cell! You want a legendary, career-defining moments? Punk’s promo from the 6/27/2011 Raw fits that category? How about his match with Cena at MITB, then walking out of WWE with the WWE Title (and blowing Vince a kiss goodbye on the way out!)?
Yes, I know that Foley said that Punk needs “one more” to cement himself as a legend, but there is no real reason to think that a Hell in a Cell match will do it. Punk has been in Hell in a Cell twice before and he hasn’t had this moment. Furthermore, Punk’s best moments have been outside of the confines of Hell in a Cell. He has put on amazing regular or No DQ matches with guys like Jericho, Cena, John Morrison, and Jeff Hardy. I’m not saying that I don’t think Punk and Cena will put on an amazing match inside of the cell (every time those two have had a singles match, it has been freakin’ magic). I’m just saying that history and logic show major holes in Foley’s argument.

The other major problem with this segment is that it seems out of place here. We have a well-respected babyface legend coming out to convince a heel to step into Hell in a Cell… why does Foley need to come out to convince Punk to take the match when Punk hasn’t refused it yet? Shouldn’t this segment be happening after Cena challenges Punk to the match and refuses? Now I didn’t watch Raw last week, but I did watch Smackdown, and I have read various people’s rundowns, reviews, and results from Raw and nowhere did I see it mentioned there either.

What this segment felt like was a generic segment with the heel champ getting into an argument with a legend to get some heat, just like Punk and Bret did. This segment just felt like WWE is treading water with Punk because they’re not sure how to fill up the six weeks of TV between now and Hell in a Cell (to be fair, as I have learned in my BRM Books Raw 1,000 and Beyond thread, filling up six weeks of both Raw and SD to build to a PPV without being repetitive is very hard). The thing that irks me about this is that this whole hard turn is an extremely poor use of the Punk character. If WWE had made this a soft turn, they could use these weeks to both flesh out and solidify Punk’s heel turn, rather than just treading water.

THE MIZ vs. RYBACK- A good win for Ryback to show that he is making progress up the food chain, but I’m not a fan of the IC Champ losing in three minutes. Miz can’t last longer than Jinder Mahal?

DRAGON & KANE IN A DINER SEGMENT #2- better, but they should have showed some reactions from the patrons in the diner.

AJ WITH THE HEELS BACKSTAGE- so the babyface GM puts a non-wrestler wearing a neck brace in a match?

WADE BARRETT vs. TYSON KIDD- Tyson Kidd getting squashed makes be cry a bit inside.

JERRY LAWLER SEGMENT- Great to see King looking so healthy, as all we have seen of him over the past week weeks are pictures of him in a hospital bed with tubes attached to him.

DAVID OTUNGA, RICARDO RODRIGUEZ , & ALBERTO DEL RIO vs. SIN CARA, SHEAMUS, & REY MYSTERIO, JR- 3.5/10
Standard WWE six man tag where the heels get destroyed. I was also extremely unhappy with Sheamus assaulting Otunga after the match for no reason at all. What a douche.

KANE & DRAGON IN THE DINER SEGMENT 3- SH*T. First of all, this exercise made no sense at all. Secondly, did Kane just let out a giant burp because he ate a piece of lettuce? This was a monstrous waste of time.

DRAGON & KANE GET A TAG TEAM NAME- While Team Hell No is good, Team Friendship would have been better. Team Rhodes Scholars is good, too.Cody and Sandow jumping them was good, but I don't buy Kane going down after just two moves if one of them isn't a finisher.

ALICIA FOX & LAYLA EL vs. EVE TORRES & BETH PHOENIX- DUD!
Way too short. This was just an excuse to have both Beth and Eve in the ring when Kaitlyn reveals that her attacker was blonde (did it really take them eight days to think to look on the security camera?). I'm calling that the attacker was Eve in a wig. Kaitlyn's acting sucks.

TENSAI vs. BRODUS CLAY (w/the Funkadactyls)- no rating. Good segment. Show looks important again

CENA & PUNK SEGMENT- Cena's promo was was very good. Punk was also good. I am eh on the ending, ut mostly because I'm not sure what Cena hit Punk with that hurt him so much.

Overall, not a good episode of Raw, but enjoyable nonetheless. For the first time since the show expanded to three hours, I didn't ask "how much more of this do I have to sit through?"



All night, they tried to play up that the refs were being extra-careful, but the problem was the way that they did it. JR kept saying that the refs were making sure that they had a good look at the wrestler’s shoulders. They should be doing that without the threat of being fired!

[cero2k]

OPENING SEGMENT- The stuff with the referee was good (and hooray for FCW talent!), but after that , it went way downhill. By turning him into a paranoid, they have just killed the Pun character’s credibility. Not his in—ring credibility, but the integrity that is so important to Punk’s character. And insinuating that slept with AJ (i.e. that he took advantage of a woman who was not in her right mind and hopelessly infatuated with him) is just so not Punk. Then having Paul mock AJ was something that just clearly put there so that AJ could get a pop for slapping him.

I liked the Heyman/AJ thing, it was perfert mockery of AJ. I thought it was the most out of character we've seen from Heyman, but the humiliation that AJ had to go through was amazing, and add to that she saying she had been humiliated just to help out Maddox was great, i just had hoped that she would be pissed off all night.

CM PUNK & MICK FOLEY SEGMENT- HORRIBLE!
This segment had a few major flaws. First, Foley tells Punk that he is disappointed that he is hanging out with Heyman. He says that Heyman is bad for Punk, but never gives any examples (and the only example of Heyman kayfabe screwing a client that I can think of is Betraying Brock for Big Show, so Foley’s accusations here seem unwarranted). Furthermore, Punk’s behavior has not changed much since he started hanging out with Heyman (he has been coming out and demanding respect since the 1000th Raw, a month before he started hanging out with Heyman), so it’s not like Hyeman is a bad or amoral influence on Punk’s behavior.
The whole point of this was Foley trying to talk Punk into facing Cena in a Hell in a Cell match. Foley says that Punk needs to do this in order be a legend. Punk then says that his long title reign makes him a legend. Foley says that moments make legends, not long title reigns. In some cases, yes, this is true. Guys like Foley and Sting definitely got short-changed in the title-run department (in terms of lengthy runs). Their careers are legendary for the moments. Moments have also been a big part of the legendary careers of guys like Austin, Rock, Taker, HBK, and Triple H. But then you have guys like Bruno, Bret, Hogan, Flair, and RVD. Guys whose careers aren’t made of legendary moments as much as they are guys who were super-over for a long time and had long title reigns… so a long title reign could easily make Punk a legend without ever setting foot in Hell in a Cell (or rather setting foot in it again… I’ll get to that later).
Foley says that a Hell in a Cell match and a Hell in a Cell moment would make Punk a legend and get him the respect he wants from the fans. To illustrate this point, he rattles off three names: Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, and Triple H (as well as himself). The problem with this is that if you took Hell in a Cell out of these guys’ careers, they wouldn’t be any less legendary (Taker’s MAYBE, but that is only because it was considered a signature match of his, rather than because he had many legendary HIAC matches/moments).

Even worse is the fact that Punk has already had major, career-defining moments without the need for Hell in a Cell! You want a legendary, career-defining moments? Punk’s promo from the 6/27/2011 Raw fits that category? How about his match with Cena at MITB, then walking out of WWE with the WWE Title (and blowing Vince a kiss goodbye on the way out!)?
Yes, I know that Foley said that Punk needs “one more” to cement himself as a legend, but there is no real reason to think that a Hell in a Cell match will do it. Punk has been in Hell in a Cell twice before and he hasn’t had this moment. Furthermore, Punk’s best moments have been outside of the confines of Hell in a Cell. He has put on amazing regular or No DQ matches with guys like Jericho, Cena, John Morrison, and Jeff Hardy. I’m not saying that I don’t think Punk and Cena will put on an amazing match inside of the cell (every time those two have had a singles match, it has been freakin’ magic). I’m just saying that history and logic show major holes in Foley’s argument.

The other major problem with this segment is that it seems out of place here. We have a well-respected babyface legend coming out to convince a heel to step into Hell in a Cell… why does Foley need to come out to convince Punk to take the match when Punk hasn’t refused it yet? Shouldn’t this segment be happening after Cena challenges Punk to the match and refuses? Now I didn’t watch Raw last week, but I did watch Smackdown, and I have read various people’s rundowns, reviews, and results from Raw and nowhere did I see it mentioned there either.

What this segment felt like was a generic segment with the heel champ getting into an argument with a legend to get some heat, just like Punk and Bret did. This segment just felt like WWE is treading water with Punk because they’re not sure how to fill up the six weeks of TV between now and Hell in a Cell (to be fair, as I have learned in my BRM Books Raw 1,000 and Beyond thread, filling up six weeks of both Raw and SD to build to a PPV without being repetitive is very hard). The thing that irks me about this is that this whole hard turn is an extremely poor use of the Punk character. If WWE had made this a soft turn, they could use these weeks to both flesh out and solidify Punk’s heel turn, rather than just treading water.

This was the only enjoyable thing for me on RAW, or the most to be more positive.
I thought this was perfect execution from both Punk and Foley. I actually agree with what Foley said.

1 - Heyman is a perfect reason why Punk could be acting like he is if they ever wanna turn a quick face turn. Heyman came back around the time Punk started to turn heel, Punk being a Heyman guy, it's impossible to think they didn't meet up to talk (not necessarily business) during those days. Punk is strong at will and conviction, but if there's a mastermind that can get into ANYONE'S mind is Heyman. He could be brain washing Punk into him asking respect from everyone!

2 - It's true, Punk needs more defining moments. Like Cena said some weeks ago, "your biggest moment was when you got your microphone cut off" it's true, Punk's reign hasn't been legendary at all! he barely main evented last month, he's had amazing matches, but as we know in WWE, 5 star matches don't mean shit. Up until today he's had NO moment that will make him legendary. And i'm gonna have to disagree, statistics don't make you legendary. The names you mention aren't really remembered for their title reigns (let's face it, no one remembers Sammartino), Flair being the only exception and it's because he won 16 titles, and even then, Flair has done a lot more for which we remember him.

The only problem i saw here was trying to sell the HIAC match as if the match could still create career defining moments which we haven't seen in years.

DRAGON & KANE GET A TAG TEAM NAME- While Team Hell No is good, Team Friendship would have been better. Team Rhodes Scholars is good, too.Cody and Sandow jumping them was good, but I don't buy Kane going down after just two moves if one of them isn't a finisher.

Am i the only one who thinks Sandow wearing a t-shirt breaks his character!? Scholars don't wear t-shirts with jokes on them!!

TENSAI vs. BRODUS CLAY (w/the Funkadactyls)- no rating. Good segment. Show looks important again

I hate it that Clay always gets his ass kicked by show, he seems no stronger than a normal sized man.

CENA & PUNK SEGMENT- Cena's promo was was very good. Punk was also good. I am eh on the ending, ut mostly because I'm not sure what Cena hit Punk with that hurt him so much.

What!? no mention of the development of the night!? Punk vs Ryback!!

[Big Red Machine]

OPENING SEGMENT- The stuff with the referee was good (and hooray for FCW talent!), but after that , it went way downhill. By turning him into a paranoid, they have just killed the Pun character’s credibility. Not his in—ring credibility, but the integrity that is so important to Punk’s character. And insinuating that slept with AJ (i.e. that he took advantage of a woman who was not in her right mind and hopelessly infatuated with him) is just so not Punk. Then having Paul mock AJ was something that just clearly put there so that AJ could get a pop for slapping him.

I liked the Heyman/AJ thing, it was perfert mockery of AJ. I thought it was the most out of character we've seen from Heyman, but the humiliation that AJ had to go through was amazing, and add to that she saying she had been humiliated just to help out Maddox was great, i just had hoped that she would be pissed off all night.

I just don't see how it helps them to mock AJ and it just seems too cruel for Punk. It is the sort of thing that Heyman, as Punk's agent, should be talking him out of doing, IMO.

DRAGON & KANE GET A TAG TEAM NAME- While Team Hell No is good, Team Friendship would have been better. Team Rhodes Scholars is good, too.Cody and Sandow jumping them was good, but I don't buy Kane going down after just two moves if one of them isn't a finisher.

Am i the only one who thinks Sandow wearing a t-shirt breaks his character!? Scholars don't wear t-shirts with jokes on them!!

I didn't notice it, but you're right about this.

TENSAI vs. BRODUS CLAY (w/the Funkadactyls)- no rating. Good segment. Show looks important again

I hate it that Clay always gets his a** kicked by show, he seems no stronger than a normal sized man.

I looked at it the otehr way. Show is a super big because he easily kicked the asses of two huge guys.

CENA & PUNK SEGMENT- Cena's promo was was very good. Punk was also good. I am eh on the ending, ut mostly because I'm not sure what Cena hit Punk with that hurt him so much.

What!? no mention of the development of the night!? Punk vs Ryback!!

Did I miss something? When did this happen during the show?

[cero2k]

CENA & PUNK SEGMENT- Cena's promo was was very good. Punk was also good. I am eh on the ending, ut mostly because I'm not sure what Cena hit Punk with that hurt him so much.

What!? no mention of the development of the night!? Punk vs Ryback!!

Did I miss something? When did this happen during the show?

after the show, just after Punk walks to the backstage after getting hit by Cena

[Big Red Machine]

What!? no mention of the development of the night!? Punk vs Ryback!!

Did I miss something? When did this happen during the show?

after the show, just after Punk walks to the backstage after getting hit by Cena

Huh. That's what I get for turning away form the TV for a minute.

Honestly, I don't like it.

[kiel297]

JR clearly identified that Cena was holding a lead pipe.

[Big Red Machine]

JR clearly identified that Cena was holding a lead pipe.

Wow. I really wasn't paying attention, was I? Crap.