The Dominant Champion

[e-moose]

It's a legend-building formula from years gone by. It's been rarely used in the past 20 years. I'm speaking of the concept of the long-reigning seemingly undefeatable dominant champion.

Surely I can't be the only W.R. member who remembers this concept with fondness. I sincerely believe that this should be done in wrestling more often than it is. When one person holds a title for close to a year or beyond a year, it makes them something more than just the world champion.

"Who can possibly defeat this man?!"

That quote describes the magical aura of something greater than great. What makes it even more appealing is that whoever finally knocks this boulder off the top of the mountain will have that much more credibility than a typical championship winner.

World championships have somehow less meaning when they're bounced around constantly. It needs time to sink in just who is the face of the company.

Lost opportunity: Mark Henry (and going a bit further back, Kane)

Current opportunities: Beth Phoenix & Sheamus

I think it's about time this concept was used. Create a legend WWE.

[cero2k]

the way you describe it, a dominant champ should only be a heel, otherwise you wouldn't wonder who is gonna defeat such a dominant champ.

[e-moose]

the way you describe it, a dominant champ should only be a heel, otherwise you wouldn't wonder who is gonna defeat such a dominant champ.

It does work best when it's a heel, especially a monster heel. I really believe that it can also work for a "monster face". OK maybe that didn't make sense, but I'm talking about people like Hulkster, Warrior, Goldberg, HHH, Batista and most recently... Sheamus! Cena actually would have been good for this sometime in the past few years. People like me would become so incredibly irritated but want to watch the title defences more because of it.

Sheamus could be just that dominant face champion who we come to look at with awe and even though he's face, we'll look even more forward to wondering "Can Mark Henry do it??? No??? Can Kane do it??? No??? Can Brock Lesnar do it??? You get what I'm saying? It just makes the championship that much more coveted.

[Big Red Machine]

WWE had done it with both Cena and Batista semi-recently. ROH did it with Joe.

[cero2k]

WWE had done it with both Cena and Batista semi-recently. ROH did it with Joe.

yeah, i'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not the "who can beat this guy" story, it's the "who's the next challenge" story, putting them against many challenges, one stronger than the last.

[Big Red Machine]

Joe was definitely a "who can possibly beat this guy?" story.

[cero2k]

Joe was definitely a "who can possibly beat this guy?" story.

true, but then again, Joe has never been the happy go lucky babyface like sheamus, cena, or batista once were

[e-moose]

So heel or face, you guys get the idea anyways. So do you agree or disagree with me that this should be done more often? ...that it gives the title itself more prestige? ...that it generates more interest in title defenses? ...that it creates legends? ...that this should be done with Sheamus? Beth Phoenix?

[cero2k]

So heel or face, you guys get the idea anyways. So do you agree or disagree with me that this should be done more often? ...that it gives the title itself more prestige? ...that it generates more interest in title defenses? ...that it creates legends? ...that this should be done with Sheamus? Beth Phoenix?

i completely agree. the problem why i think that it's not done more often, at least in TNA or WWE, is that it's a big investment. You have to have faith in your guy and keep the title in his hands for a long while, you gotta throw him the best and ignore the fact that he/she will win regardless of the contender, kinda how they did with guys like Lesnar, Cena, Batista, who took it against the best and defeated them just like that.

Today i could see how you don't want your del Rio beating guys like Cena, Trips, HBK, Taker, Edge, etc back to back. Instead you throw him a little bit of Rey, a little bit of Big Show, Christian, guys like that and when you feel you gotta go for the big fish, you get cold feet and change the title.

I think that a great example happened with Rock and Cena, Cena was given heaven, but lost to Rock when he came back.

[Big Red Machine]

So heel or face, you guys get the idea anyways. So do you agree or disagree with me that this should be done more often? ...that it gives the title itself more prestige? ...that it generates more interest in title defenses? ...that it creates legends? ...that this should be done with Sheamus? Beth Phoenix?

It is a good tool for building up the prestige of the title, but it has to be done with the right guy, which makes it hard to do at times. I think that Beth is actually in the middle of one right now, and I think that would work perfectly for Michael Elgin in ROH. Another guy I would love to see that done with is Rhino.

[Bob-O]

It is a good tool for building up the prestige of the title, but it has to be done with the right guy, which makes it hard to do at times. I think that Beth is actually in the middle of one right now, and I think that would work perfectly for Michael Elgin in ROH. Another guy I would love to see that done with is Rhino.

Beth 'is' but she isn't. Didn't she eat the pinfall from a tourist at Mania? Under no circumstance would a dominant champion do this. I mean she's held the title for a while and she's defended it successfully at a bunch of PPV's, but it's a given that if the titles not on the line she's gonna lose. They always treat it like an upset, but it happens all the time, and when it happens with somebody who comes to the ring dressed up as a Furry you're not a dominant champion.

So do you agree or disagree with me that this should be done more often? ...that it gives the title itself more prestige? ...that it generates more interest in title defenses? ...that it creates legends? ...that this should be done with Sheamus? Beth Phoenix?

I think you're spot on with all of it except for Sheamus being 'That Guy', because he's not IMO. They can build on it and turn this reign into that of a "Dominant Champion", but at this point he hasn't shown me that he's the best in the company. As a face, to pull this off you need to be the face of the company. You need to be the one making the media appearances and headlining PPV's. You need to be the one ending the shows and pulling Ratings and pushing PPV Buys. Sheamus isn't that guy. Yet, anyway.

I'm thinking when Goldberg took the title off of Hogan. That first run of his from start to.... ugh never mind the the finish (stupid WCW). THAT'S what a dominant champion is all about. Sheamus isn't that guy. He basically sucker punched a much smaller guy to win the title. As much as WWE wants us to think he is, he's not over. Watch the live crowds when he comes out, they're almost always dead.

I think CM Punk is the much better option currently. He's the champion of the Flagship show, he's been consistant in his defenses. He just needs some better competition to establish himself as Best In The Company. Jericho is a good start, but he needs clean wins over guys like Kane.... over guys like.... crap, is Kane the only Main Event Heel left!? Mark Henry, I guess with some rebuilding, but you get what I'm saying.

I would love to see some actual depth brought back to WWE, and a real Champion would be a great starting place.

[Big Red Machine]

It is a good tool for building up the prestige of the title, but it has to be done with the right guy, which makes it hard to do at times. I think that Beth is actually in the middle of one right now, and I think that would work perfectly for Michael Elgin in ROH. Another guy I would love to see that done with is Rhino.

Beth 'is' but she isn't. Didn't she eat the pinfall from a tourist at Mania? Under no circumstance would a dominant champion do this. I mean she's held the title for a while and she's defended it successfully at a bunch of PPV's, but it's a given that if the titles not on the line she's gonna lose. They always treat it like an upset, but it happens all the time, and when it happens with somebody who comes to the ring dressed up as a Furry you're not a dominant champion.

Fair point. Aside from this, though, she has fit the category perfectly. Each month they line up a challenger, and Beth just knocks her down.

[Big Red Machine]

I would love to see some actual depth brought back to WWE, and a real Champion would be a great starting place.

WWE has depth. The problem is that they aren't using it well. Dragon, Sheamus, Ziggler, and Cody could all be huge if WWE would actually book them intelligently and in a way that sustains their push. Kofi, Swagger, Riley and a few others could be right behind them if booked well. And that doesn't even include the guys like Tyson Kidd who we know are awesome but WWE is misusing, or all of the guys down in developmental like Tyler, Claudio, Moxley, Hero, who have either already proven themselves elsewhere or guys like Leakee, Harris, Sandow, and Kruger who just need WWE to give them a platform to perform on.

[e-moose]

I think that in the last half of 2011 the WWE had Mark Henry groomed perfectly for this role, only to cut the whole thing short. I think that was a huge mistake at that time after such an awesomely crafted build-up of his character to play exactly that "dominant champion" role. Mark played the role very well too. If I were in charge there, Mark Henry to this very day would be an incredibly feared and respected champion, obliterating competition, usually without cheating, and putting legs in chairs from time to time. :ymdevil: All challengers would be putting their careers on the line by stepping into the ring with this dangerous champion and the fans would know it, and be left with the thought... "Who could possibly defeat this man?!" It would have made Brock Lesnar's re-appearance extra intriguing as well.

[Big Red Machine]

I think that in the last half of 2011 the WWE had Mark Henry groomed perfectly for this role, only to cut the whole thing short. I think that was a huge mistake at that time after such an awesomely crafted build-up of his character to play exactly that "dominant champion" role. Mark played the role very well too. If I were in charge there, Mark Henry to this very day would be an incredibly feared and respected champion, obliterating competition, usually without cheating, and putting legs in chairs from time to time. :ymdevil: All challengers would be putting their careers on the line by stepping into the ring with this dangerous champion and the fans would know it, and be left with the thought... "Who could possibly defeat this man?!" It would have made Brock Lesnar's re-appearance extra intriguing as well.

I agree with everything you said here aside from your last point. WWE was already setting Sheamus up to be that guy, and to win the belt from Mark (presumably at Mania). If you look back at all of Mark's matches from the time he started the Hall Of Pain gimmick until his injury, Sheamus was the only guy whom Mark didn't beat 100% decisively (he only got a count-out win, which while decisive, isn't a pinfall, submission, or KO), and Sheamus rarely (if ever) lost cleanly after that loss to Henry.

[e-moose]

I think that in the last half of 2011 the WWE had Mark Henry groomed perfectly for this role, only to cut the whole thing short. I think that was a huge mistake at that time after such an awesomely crafted build-up of his character to play exactly that "dominant champion" role. Mark played the role very well too. If I were in charge there, Mark Henry to this very day would be an incredibly feared and respected champion, obliterating competition, usually without cheating, and putting legs in chairs from time to time. :ymdevil: All challengers would be putting their careers on the line by stepping into the ring with this dangerous champion and the fans would know it, and be left with the thought... "Who could possibly defeat this man?!" It would have made Brock Lesnar's re-appearance extra intriguing as well.

I agree with everything you said here aside from your last point. WWE was already setting Sheamus up to be that guy, and to win the belt from Mark (presumably at Mania). If you look back at all of Mark's matches from the time he started the Hall Of Pain gimmick until his injury, Sheamus was the only guy whom Mark didn't beat 100% decisively (he only got a count-out win, which while decisive, isn't a pinfall, submission, or KO), and Sheamus rarely (if ever) lost cleanly after that loss to Henry.

Sheamus challenges (and possibly defeats) the "dominant champion" Mark Henry at WrestleMania 28. This lost opportunity of a scenario is awesome! This title match (with the Sheamus build-up combined with the already fairly long and dominant Mark Henry title reign) would have been a bigger draw than Sheamus/Bryan. No 18-second victory there for sure! Rather the match would have looked more like Undertaker/HHH (two powerful forces tryna kick the crap outta each other), and would have been anticipated by the fans at, dare I say, the level of Rock/Cena. It wouldn't even matter who takes the title in the end. Either man could lose but still come out of it looking awesome and another confrontation down the road would still sell big.