BRM Reviews the 3/12/2012 Raw (Rock=Bad, Jericho=Amazing!)

[Big Red Machine]

OPENING SEGMENT- I popped HUGE for old-school Cena. Good stuff from Cena.

SHEAMUS vs. DOLPH ZIGGLER (w/Vickie Guerrero)- 5/10. Once again these two are not given anywhere near the time they deserve.
INTERVIEW WITH DRAGON DURING THE MATCH- I didn’t like this both conceptually and as a concept. Dragon and AJ were apparently in the skybox because Dragon is scouting Sheamus… from way all the way up in the skybox, as opposed to right next to them at ringside, or up close on a monitor, where it would make more sense. Also, if Dragon is scouting Sheamus, he should tell Striker to go away for now. I doubt he would want to be interrupted. And speaking of being interrupted, I didn’t want my viewing of the match interrupted.
I also didn’t like the content, as the way they are going with Dragon and AJ just feels to played out and clichéd to me. I know I am someone who always says that “predictable does not mean bad,” but I am feeling disappointed that WWE couldn’t come up with anything more interesting to do with this.

HANDICAP MATCH: Mark Henry & David Otunga vs. Santino Marella (w/Aksana)- no rating. Dull segment.
The whole point of this segment was to create a situation where Teddy could shove Johnny Ace again, and to help set up the teams at Wrestlemania. It did that well, but it wasn’t exciting in any way.

ZACK RYDER & EVE TORRES- they are completely screwing this up from all angles. Nice to see Ryder is fully recovered less than a month after being shoved off of a stage while having both a broken neck and broken back.

BETH PHOENIX & EVE TORRES- I didn’t like it. Beth should not be involved in the same angle as Eve. The characters are just too different…. WAIT! WHAT? Where the hell is this going?

THE MIZ & JOHNNY ACE BACKSTAGE- okay

JINDER MAHAL vs. BRODUS CLAY (w/Cameron & Naomi)- good squash.
Brodus got a huge pop for a relative nobody who hasn’t been on TV for over a month.

SHAWN MICHAELS & UNDERTAKER SEGMENT- I didn’t like it. Too much of the build is on whether or not HBK will be a fair referee, when it should be on Triple H and Taker. Triple H’s appearance was entirely pointless.

IF MIZ WINS, HE IS ON TEAM LAURINAITIS AT WRESTLEMANIA: The Miz vs. CM Punk- 3.5/10!
I know that Miz losing is part of the angle, but that is no excuse for a three minute long match between these two.

CHRIS JERICHO PROMO- apparently, like me, Jericho also just finished watching ROH Wrestlerave ‘03. And Jericho’s promo here was every bit as ABSOLUTELY FREAKIN’ AWESOME as Punk’s promo from Wrestlerave ‘03… maybe even better. Easily a Promo Of The Year Candidate. I actually like it better than Cena’s promo a few weeks ago.

DAVID OTUNGA COMMERICAL- funny

RANDY ORTON vs. JACK SWAGGER (w/Vickie Guerrero)- 5.5/10
Good for the time it got, but not good enough for a main event.

THE ROCK CONCERT- ran ten minutes too long. The first one was entertaining. After that, it was the same random crap we’ve heard for weeks from The Rock, but this time to music… and it was the same music over and over and over again. I was actually bored out of my mind by the end of this, and the thing that got me the most excited was when, based on a t-shirt, I thought I saw the famous ROH Green Lantern Fan. This stunk.

Overall, a bad episode of Raw saved by Jericho’s AMAZING promo.

[badnewzxl]

I thought this episode of Raw was GREAT!

You didn't think the Sheamus/Ziggler match got enough time? There was a commercial break in it, AND it was very good, imo.

I also liked the GM segment; I thought it was a good way to start the buzz of who's gonna side with who at WM. And I always love to see Santino and Aksana. Good to see Otunga becoming useful also.

And I think you're over-thinking the Beth/Eve stuff, it was just a backstage interaction to show how stuck-up Eve is (hasn't she been shown backstage in similar segments with Divas ever since she turned?). I don't think Beth is gonna become a part of it; she seemed set on going after that chick from EXTRA.

I'll agree with you about the HBK/Taker segment; but the Jericho interview was NOT "awesome," it kinda ruins the match for me. How many mega personal feuds do we need to have at WM? This was the one that I thought was gonna steal the show bc it was simply about who was the better WRESTLER; now they made it personal on an unnecessary level. Now I'm not so sure this match WILL steal the show.

and the Rock concert was great; exactly as expected. Cena was right on par tonight as well; I called it a tie. Both of them went a little awry at the end (Cena already had the crowd with him, saying "shit" and threatening to teabag the Rock was funny but it seemed a bit overboard. Rock didn't need the karaoke at the end either; that was too much) but all in all they were great.

I thought this was an excellent show

[Big Red Machine]

but the Jericho interview was NOT "awesome," it kinda ruins the match for me. How many mega personal feuds do we need to have at WM? This was the one that I thought was gonna steal the show bc it was simply about who was the better WRESTLER; now they made it personal on an unnecessary level. Now I'm not so sure this match WILL steal the show.

Not personal? This feud started off with Jericho accusing Punk of ripping him off. That is personal, and it has been personal for a while. The "impersonal" feud was/is Dragon vs. Sheamus.

Furthermore, this, at its core, wasn't personal. This wasn't Jericho saying "I'm going to make your life a living hell to the point where it drives you to drink, thus forcing you to compromise your principles because I hate you." This was Jericho saying "I'm going to beat you so badly that it will drive you, CM PUNK, a man noted for his strong convictions, to do something that you have sworn never to do."

[cero2k]

I think that between rock/cena and taker/trips, punk/Jericho was in the shadows of many fans, it's obviously not getting the attention that it deserves, being for the title and all. Going the cm drunk way, it now has a story that many fans will want to know more about. Even now ace vs long has more people talking that punk vs Jericho. This match needed this imo

[Big Red Machine]

I thought this episode of Raw was GREAT!
I don't think Beth is gonna become a part of it; she seemed set on going after that chick from EXTRA.

And so does Eve.

and the Rock concert was great; exactly as expected. Cena was right on par tonight as well; I called it a tie. Both of them went a little awry at the end (Cena already had the crowd with him, saying "s**t" and threatening to teabag the Rock was funny but it seemed a bit overboard. Rock didn't need the karaoke at the end either; that was too much) but all in all they were great.

It was dull. It is the same jokes we have heard over and over. It stopped being entertaining just became dull

[badnewzxl]

but the Jericho interview was NOT "awesome," it kinda ruins the match for me. How many mega personal feuds do we need to have at WM? This was the one that I thought was gonna steal the show bc it was simply about who was the better WRESTLER; now they made it personal on an unnecessary level. Now I'm not so sure this match WILL steal the show.

Not personal? This feud started off with Jericho accusing Punk of ripping him off. That is personal, and it has been personal for a while. The "impersonal" feud was/is Dragon vs. Sheamus.

Furthermore, this, at its core, wasn't personal. This wasn't Jericho saying "I'm going to make your life a living hell to the point where it drives you to drink, thus forcing you to compromise your principles because I hate you." This was Jericho saying "I'm going to beat you so badly that it will drive you, CM PUNK, a man noted for his strong convictions, to do something that you have sworn never to do."

this is exactly the type of crap you like and I hate. Jericho claiming Punk is ripping him off is still professional; he was referring to the things they both do AT THEIR JOB. It became personal when Jericho mentioned Punk's father; that's FAMILY and therefore PERSONAL.

I thought this episode of Raw was GREAT!
I don't think Beth is gonna become a part of it; she seemed set on going after that chick from EXTRA.

And so does Eve.

and the Rock concert was great; exactly as expected. Cena was right on par tonight as well; I called it a tie. Both of them went a little awry at the end (Cena already had the crowd with him, saying "s**t" and threatening to teabag the Rock was funny but it seemed a bit overboard. Rock didn't need the karaoke at the end either; that was too much) but all in all they were great.

It was dull. It is the same jokes we have heard over and over. It stopped being entertaining just became dull

1) how does Eve seem set on going after the chick from EXTRA? She seemed interested, but her relationship with Ryder was MUCH more important, obviously.

2) you can feel however you want about the Rock; you're always gonna claim his segments are "dull" and all kinds of other words that are disproven by the CROWD IN ATTENDANCE, cheering and singing along bc THEY ARE ENTERTAINED! It wasn't at ALL "dull."

[Big Red Machine]

but the Jericho interview was NOT "awesome," it kinda ruins the match for me. How many mega personal feuds do we need to have at WM? This was the one that I thought was gonna steal the show bc it was simply about who was the better WRESTLER; now they made it personal on an unnecessary level. Now I'm not so sure this match WILL steal the show.

Not personal? This feud started off with Jericho accusing Punk of ripping him off. That is personal, and it has been personal for a while. The "impersonal" feud was/is Dragon vs. Sheamus.

Furthermore, this, at its core, wasn't personal. This wasn't Jericho saying "I'm going to make your life a living hell to the point where it drives you to drink, thus forcing you to compromise your principles because I hate you." This was Jericho saying "I'm going to beat you so badly that it will drive you, CM PUNK, a man noted for his strong convictions, to do something that you have sworn never to do."

this is exactly the type of crap you like and I hate. Jericho claiming Punk is ripping him off is still professional; he was referring to the things they both do AT THEIR JOB. It became personal when Jericho mentioned Punk's father; that's FAMILY and therefore PERSONAL

Just because someone mentions someone else's family does not make it personal. It is the way it is brought up that counts.

Furthermore, "you ripped me off" is more than professional. You are calling someone a plagiarist, which is an assault on their character (meaning the type of person they are, not meaning their gimmck), and therefore is personal.

[Big Red Machine]

I thought this episode of Raw was GREAT!
I don't think Beth is gonna become a part of it; she seemed set on going after that chick from EXTRA.

And so does Eve.

and the Rock concert was great; exactly as expected. Cena was right on par tonight as well; I called it a tie. Both of them went a little awry at the end (Cena already had the crowd with him, saying "s**t" and threatening to teabag the Rock was funny but it seemed a bit overboard. Rock didn't need the karaoke at the end either; that was too much) but all in all they were great.

It was dull. It is the same jokes we have heard over and over. It stopped being entertaining just became dull

1) how does Eve seem set on going after the chick from EXTRA? She seemed interested, but her relationship with Ryder was MUCH more important, obviously.

2) you can feel however you want about the Rock; you're always gonna claim his segments are "dull" and all kinds of other words that are disproven by the CROWD IN ATTENDANCE, cheering and singing along bc THEY ARE ENTERTAINED! It wasn't at ALL "dull."

1). If her relationship with Ryder was more important, why did she send him away to talk to Beth about the EXTRA thing.

2). I found it to be dull. But maybe a better word to use would have been "uninspired"

[badnewzxl]

Just because someone mentions someone else's family does not make it personal. It is the way it is brought up that counts.

Furthermore, "you ripped me off" is more than professional. You are calling someone a plagiarist, which is an assault on their character (meaning the type of person they are, not meaning their gimmck), and therefore is personal.

Are you kidding me? It's EXACTLY what makes something personal.

If you think that bringing up a family members' alcoholism is more professional than accusing one of plagiarism, you're completely ridiculous.

1). If her relationship with Ryder was more important, why did she send him away to talk to Beth about the EXTRA thing.

2). I found it to be dull. But maybe a better word to use would have been "uninspired"

\

1) did you not notice that she WALKED AWAY FROM BETH WHEN BETH CHALLENGED HER RELATIONSHIP WITH RYDER???!!! She sent him away to show that she was in control; if she were more set on the EXTRA chick, she wouldn't have just blown that whole thing off bc of what Beth said.

2) fair enough; I felt that it delivered

[Big Red Machine]

Just because someone mentions someone else's family does not make it personal. It is the way it is brought up that counts.

Furthermore, "you ripped me off" is more than professional. You are calling someone a plagiarist, which is an assault on their character (meaning the type of person they are, not meaning their gimmck), and therefore is personal.

Are you kidding me? It's EXACTLY what makes something personal.

If you think that bringing up a family members' alcoholism is more professional than accusing one of plagiarism, you're completely ridiculous.

What matters is the way it is done. Jericho didn't say "Ha ha ha. Your dad is an alcoholic." He mentioned it as insight into Punk's psychology.

[badnewzxl]

Just because someone mentions someone else's family does not make it personal. It is the way it is brought up that counts.

Furthermore, "you ripped me off" is more than professional. You are calling someone a plagiarist, which is an assault on their character (meaning the type of person they are, not meaning their gimmck), and therefore is personal.

Are you kidding me? It's EXACTLY what makes something personal.

If you think that bringing up a family members' alcoholism is more professional than accusing one of plagiarism, you're completely ridiculous.

What matters is the way it is done. Jericho didn't say "Ha ha ha. Your dad is an alcoholic." He mentioned it as insight into Punk's psychology.

do you really think that's the way it came off? to MOST ppl? C'mon, be for real. No one mentions another person's family in pro wrestling unless they're trying to get PERSONAL; the ONLY exception is MAYBE if said family member is involved in pro wrestling, but that's not the case here. This started out competitive and they've added unnecessary drama to it. I felt that this is the one they could have kept strictly about competition (kinda like Angle v. Lesnar) but they had to mess with it. I thought the Sheamus v. Bryan match could have used a dramatic hook, esp more than Punk v. Y2J....

[Big Red Machine]

Are you kidding me? It's EXACTLY what makes something personal.

If you think that bringing up a family members' alcoholism is more professional than accusing one of plagiarism, you're completely ridiculous.

What matters is the way it is done. Jericho didn't say "Ha ha ha. Your dad is an alcoholic." He mentioned it as insight into Punk's psychology.

do you really think that's the way it came off? to MOST ppl? C'mon, be for real. No one mentions another person's family in pro wrestling unless they're trying to get PERSONAL; the ONLY exception is MAYBE if said family member is involved in pro wrestling, but that's not the case here. This started out competitive and they've added unnecessary drama to it. I felt that this is the one they could have kept strictly about competition (kinda like Angle v. Lesnar) but they had to mess with it. I thought the Sheamus v. Bryan match could have used a dramatic hook, esp more than Punk v. Y2J....

I think that everyone who understood the promo understood it my way.
Angle vs. Brock wasn't personal? It started when Brock helped Angle win the WWE Title... then Angle signed with the scumbag manager who had betrayed Brock just two months before. Then, when Kurt cheated to retain the title, Brock kayfabe crippled Kurt's brother. And that's not "personal" to you?

And you thought Punk vs. Jericho should be the "competition" feud, and Dragon vs. Sheamus should be the personal feud? Which feud do you think is going to produce the better promos? Dragon & Sheamus or Punk & Jericho?

[KILLdozer]

Dude,people can get killed for bringing family into some shit...I think that as personal as it gets.

[Big Red Machine]

Dude,people can get killed for bringing family into some s**t...I think that as personal as it gets.

My not is that not every mention of someone's family makes things personal. Was it personal every time The Rock said that his mother would smack the lips off of someone else's mother's face?

[KILLdozer]

Dude,people can get killed for bringing family into some s**t...I think that as personal as it gets.

My not is that not every mention of someone's family makes things personal. Was it personal every time The Rock said that his mother would smack the lips off of someone else's mother's face?

Not the same thing...Of course its not personal in that instance because he was just bein his usual loudmouth obnoxious self...Thats "My dad'll kick your dad's ass" all over again...All about the context brother...Jericho bringing up something that he did makes it extremely personal...One of your deep dark secrets about your family being let out certainly makes it personal.

[Big Red Machine]

Dude,people can get killed for bringing family into some s**t...I think that as personal as it gets.

My not is that not every mention of someone's family makes things personal. Was it personal every time The Rock said that his mother would smack the lips off of someone else's mother's face?

Not the same thing...Of course its not personal in that instance because he was just bein his usual loudmouth obnoxious self...Thats "My dad'll kick your dad's a**" all over again...All about the context brother...Jericho bringing up something that he did makes it extremely personal...One of your deep dark secrets about your family being let out certainly makes it personal.

Exactly. Context matters... and Punk's father was not the topic of the discussion here. Jericho gave some insight into Punk's background and psychology. He is learning about Punk and cut his promo on Punk. Personal would be "Your dad was an alcoholic. Ha ha ha." Punk's father is only important here because of the influence he has had on Punk's life choices.
Personal would be something like Eddie turning on El Hijo Del Santo. "My father was the better wrestler and carried your father's ass, but your father took all of the credit and became a bigger star." That is personal. What Jericho said was basically "I am going to beat you so badly that you, CM Punk, a man of convictions and strong character, will be depressed enough that you will do the one thing you have sworn never to do." That is not personal. That is just smack talk.

[kiel297]

I think that while you both have valid points on the Personal/Professional argument, neither of you are quite right.

I think that it hits the perfect middle ground. It's professional in the fact that yes, Chris Jericho isn't using it to anger Punk, he's using it to get inside Punk's head and use that to help him win the WWE Championship. He's not bringing it up just for the sake of laughing at Punk for having an alcoholic father.

But at the same time, it's completely personal. First off, Chris Jericho attacks CM Punk, seemingly for no reason. That's personal already. There was no match in place for them at the time. Then Jericho goes on to claim that CM Punk is nothing but a product of ripping off Chris Jericho. You've got a man completely discrediting the work that you put your heart and soul into. That's personal. Then to tip it off, Chris Jericho takes one of the aspects of CM Punk's family life that he is most ashamed of and drags it out into the open for the world to comment on. THAT is personal.

To summarise, the motives are professional in that Chris Jericho just wants the WWE Title back around his waist, but the steps he's taken towards that ultimate goal are completely personal.

[badnewzxl]

I think that everyone who understood the promo understood it my way.
Angle vs. Brock wasn't personal? It started when Brock helped Angle win the WWE Title... then Angle signed with the scumbag manager who had betrayed Brock just two months before. Then, when Kurt cheated to retain the title, Brock kayfabe crippled Kurt's brother. And that's not "personal" to you?

And you thought Punk vs. Jericho should be the "competition" feud, and Dragon vs. Sheamus should be the personal feud? Which feud do you think is going to produce the better promos? Dragon & Sheamus or Punk & Jericho?

the only reason Lesnar attacked Eric Angle was bc Eric DISGUISED HIMSELF AS KURT AND COST LESNAR A MATCH (you're referrig to the guantlet Lesnar had to run through Team Angle, right?); Eric PUT HIMSELF IN THAT POSITION. The only reason Eric was attacked is bc HE CAME TO WHERE LESNAR WORKED; he entered the work environment. I could see what you're saying if a family member showed up at RAW, but in this instance, Jericho just brought it up out of nowhere. HE brought Punk's family into the feud; THAT makes it personal.

the reason I think Dragon v. Sheamus should have been given a personal twist is bc IT is the match that lacks as far as the original four maine events are concerned. The feud for the WWE title and the title of best in the world were enough for Jericho & Punk; Dragon and Sheamus could use SOMETHING to build a little more animosity between the two. I just think it needs something to put it on that main event level like HHH v. Taker and Rock v. Cena. I understand that you love it bc it references something that happened in the past; but even that doesn't work for me. If I remember correctly, during his feud with Raven in ROH Punk was the one who resented his father and his reason for disliking Raven was that Raven was just like his dad. I didn't understand then when Punk's reaction was the way it was on RAW; It didn't make sense to me that he seemed so effected by what Jericho said.

[Big Red Machine]

the reason I think Dragon v. Sheamus should have been given a personal twist is bc IT is the match that lacks as far as the original four maine events are concerned. The feud for the WWE title and the title of best in the world were enough for Jericho & Punk; Dragon and Sheamus could use SOMETHING to build a little more animosity between the two. I just think it needs something to put it on that main event level like HHH v. Taker and Rock v. Cena. I understand that you love it bc it references something that happened in the past; but even that doesn't work for me. If I remember correctly, during his feud with Raven in ROH Punk was the one who resented his father and his reason for disliking Raven was that Raven was just like his dad. I didn't understand then when Punk's reaction was the way it was on RAW; It didn't make sense to me that he seemed so effected by what Jericho said.

The reason that Dragon vs. Sheamus lacks is because it hasn't had any build-up at all. Yeah, Sheamus attacked Dragon right after Dragon had a grueling match (because apparently babyfaces do that), then Dragon spent time wrestling Punk and trying not to wrestle Orton, while Sheamus really hasn't done much of anything. If they had built it up better from the beginning, you wouldn't think it needed a personal twist.

IMO Punk vs. Jericho doesn't need the belt. Feuding over the title of "Best In The World" should be enough (especially with punk and Jericho's mic skills.

If I were booking it, I would have had Punk and Jericho double-pin each other in the Elimination Chamber and put the belt on Ziggler. Dragon would blow-off his feud with Big Show at Mania for the belt, and Sheamus would challenge Ziggler at Mania. Then, after mania the winner of Sheamus vs. Ziggler calls out the winner of Punk vs. Jericho and says "you're the best in the world? Then why am I the WWE Champion?" and you have your next title match right there.

[badnewzxl]

the reason I think Dragon v. Sheamus should have been given a personal twist is bc IT is the match that lacks as far as the original four maine events are concerned. The feud for the WWE title and the title of best in the world were enough for Jericho & Punk; Dragon and Sheamus could use SOMETHING to build a little more animosity between the two. I just think it needs something to put it on that main event level like HHH v. Taker and Rock v. Cena. I understand that you love it bc it references something that happened in the past; but even that doesn't work for me. If I remember correctly, during his feud with Raven in ROH Punk was the one who resented his father and his reason for disliking Raven was that Raven was just like his dad. I didn't understand then when Punk's reaction was the way it was on RAW; It didn't make sense to me that he seemed so effected by what Jericho said.

The reason that Dragon vs. Sheamus lacks is because it hasn't had any build-up at all. Yeah, Sheamus attacked Dragon right after Dragon had a grueling match (because apparently babyfaces do that), then Dragon spent time wrestling Punk and trying not to wrestle Orton, while Sheamus really hasn't done much of anything. If they had built it up better from the beginning, you wouldn't think it needed a personal twist.

IMO Punk vs. Jericho doesn't need the belt. Feuding over the title of "Best In The World" should be enough (especially with punk and Jericho's mic skills.

If I were booking it, I would have had Punk and Jericho double-pin each other in the Elimination Chamber and put the belt on Ziggler. Dragon would blow-off his feud with Big Show at Mania for the belt, and Sheamus would challenge Ziggler at Mania. Then, after mania the winner of Sheamus vs. Ziggler calls out the winner of Punk vs. Jericho and says "you're the best in the world? Then why am I the WWE Champion?" and you have your next title match right there.

1) yea; IF they had built it up you wouldn't need said twist. BUT SINCE THEY DIDN'T I feel it could use it a lot more than Jericho/Punk.

2) I agree, but since that's NOT the case, I feel adding the alcoholism part is too much. They're already fighting over two titles; why throw in something else? Why not give that something else to an angle that's lacking?