BRM Reviews the 2/27/2012 Raw & Responds to The Rock

[Big Red Machine]

CHRIS JERICHO & CM PUNK SEGMENT- good

CM PUNK vs. DANIEL BRYAN (w/AJ!)- No rating. Good segment. It got over a few different angles here (Dragon vs. Sheamus, Punk vs. Jericho, Long vs. Laurinaitus, with the latter two feuds escalating somewhat) which was good, although repeating the exact same situation from Smackdown annoyed me a bit.
On commentary, Long & Lawler said that it was terrible how Dragon was putting AJ in harm’s way by bringing her out to ringside. Aside from the obvious question of why do they not bitch and moan that Vickie Guerrero is in danger whenever she is at ringside, this really pissed me off because, in trying to talk this up, they missed the important part of the story! Dragon goes down on the outside. Punk, in the ring, gets ready to dive. Dragon calls AJ over, so AJ is in the way, forcing Punk to abort his dive. The issue isn’t that he is bringing her to ringside. The issue is that he is using her as a HUMAN SHIELD. In the story that the announcers are telling, we have a girl who wants to come to ringside to support her boyfriend, and a boyfriend who lets her do it (yes, she got hurt doing it once before, but Dragon has been blaming this on Big Show being reckless, so it shouldn’t be an issue in matches against anyone else), and in the story that Dragon, AJ, & Punk are telling, we have a man using his girlfriend as a human shield. Which one of those sounds more heelish to you? I absolutely hate it when announcers miss things like this.

KELLY KELLY vs. NIKKI BELLA (w/Brie Bella)- 2/10.
Ridiculously short and served no purpose.

JOHN CENA vs. THE MIZ- 5/10.
Decent pre-match promo by The Miz. This match should have been given A LOT more than four minutes.

TRIPLE THREAT TAG TEAM MATCH FOR THE WWE TAG TEAM TITLES: Primo & Epico (w/Rosa Mendes)(c) vs. R-Truth & Kofi Kingston vs. Jack Swagger & Dolph Ziggler (w/Vickie Guerrero)- 5.25/10
After the match, Kane comes out and chokeslams everybody. We’ll see where this goes.

TEDDY LONG & JOHNNY ACE SEGMENT- hmm

EVE TORRES PROMO- a good promo… but not for this situation. The only person who fell for her was Zack Ryder. I think this promo needed to be longer. If she had said something about Cena giving in to her when she kissed him on Raw two weeks ago, and maybe made up one or two other stories about random guys it would have been better.

CODY RHODES & MARK HENRY vs. THE BIG SHOW & SHEAMUS- DUD! Match went less than a minute, and Henry lost after taking about two moves. This guy was WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION just three months ago!

ROCK & CENA PROMOS- Cena was good. Rock was… too difficult for me to rate because I am, in the absolutely purist sense of the term, marking out. What I mean by this is that I am certain that the fact that I agree with Cena affects the way that I view The Rock’s promo (and I’m not just angry because he broke kayfabe). I am certain that someone on the other side of the aisle would have enjoyed The Rock’s promo a lot more. I am into this angle to the point where I can’t see what the overall purpose of things is. When a heel insults the babyface or something like that, I can step back and look at it and say “good job drawing heat.” I am finding myself unable to do that here (in part because it doesn’t seem as if it is intended to draw heat at all). Instead, I will offer a rebuttal to The Rock:

You said that we weren’t supposed to take “The Rock has come home and he’s never leaving again” literally. So why did you say it? If it doesn’t mean that you are going to be a part of the show every week (hell… or even a third of the time), then what the hell does it mean?

Triple H isn’t on the show every week, but it never feels like he is gone. Same thing with Taker. You get the feeling that they could walk out from behind the curtain at any moment. Even guys like Bret hart and Shawn Michaels still have that feeling associated with them. But with you, Rocky, it feels like you are gone. You are never mentioned or even thought of as your own entity. You are only mentioned in connection with John Cena.

It feels like you are just coasting through. Like you are half-assing it, mentally. When you came back last winter you randomly cut a promo on John Cena, making fun of him for the way he dresses, the type of music he enjoys, and the fact that he believes in ideals like loyalty and respect… and that little kids look up to him for it. What type of judgmental ass are you? You have no basis to insult Cena other than because you need to insult someone. Your promos are all the same crap, different day. Catchphrase here, catchphrase there, invent some new insult so the people can chant it, etc. etc. What I want to see is you actually respond to John Cena. You saw what Punk and Jericho did earlier tonight? I want you to do that. I dare you, Rocky. Actually respond to John Cena’s points...

And not like you did tonight. Don’t purposely misinterpret John’s statements or dodge his points like you did tonight. When Cena says that he is fighting for everyone who is proud to call themselves a professional wrestler, he is fighting against people like you, who don’t want their new career tainted by the fact that they were involved in wrestling. You never saw a movie starring Andre Roussimoff or Terry Bollea. They were all starring Andre The Giant or Hulk Hogan. But you started billing yourself as Dwayne Johnson to get away from the stigma of having been a wrestler. You claim to fight for the WWE fans? Well Wrestlemania 28 will be the second time that you do that in EIGHT YEARS. Can you really call that “fighting for the people.” Fighting for the people is what guys like John Cena, CM Punk, Kofi Kingston, Randy Orton, and Zack Ryder do almost every night.

As of right now, you’re not The Rock. You are Dwayne “The Movie Star” Johnson, and that is what you will continue to be until you start making at least semi-regular appearances on WWE programming.

[badnewzxl]

You said that we weren’t supposed to take “The Rock has come home and he’s never leaving again” literally. So why did you say it? If it doesn’t mean that you are going to be a part of the show every week (hell… or even a third of the time), then what the hell does it mean?

I'm glad you asked this and all the folks who are against the Rock in this angle want an answer as well. Well, here it is: Remember when the Rock was officially done with the WWE? I think it was the cover of a GQ or some other male magazine where Rock was on the title and it read a quote: "the Rock is Dead". This was what the Rock said in the interview; he said the Rock was dead bc he was no longer a wrestler, but an actor. The Rock was his wrestling persona; Dwayne Johnson was the guy who played the Rock. When he came back and said the Rock was back, I took it to mean that the Rock (the professional wrestler) was coming back. When he said he's never gonna leave again, I took that to mean he would never abandon or forsake WWE again. I didn't expect to see the Rock on tv often, putting ppl in poorly executed Sharpshooters.

Choosing sides in this feud is a lot more simple than a lot of ppl notice. It's all about your concept of Loyalty. Cena claims he's the Man bc he remains THE guy by being there every week; Rock claims to be the man bc he doesn't need to be there every night. I'm on the Rock's side in this whole thing bc who's more beneficial to the WWE on a grand scale than the Great One? John Cena is known for being a wrestler; NOT an all around STAR. The Rock is drawing attention to WWE that no one in the WWE can pull bc he exists in more realms of entertainment. Cena's just a wrestler; the Rock is a wrestler, pop culture icon, and actor. It's a big deal for him to be there right now.

And the Rock brought up an EXCELLENT point in his promo tonite when he talked about why Cena gets the reaction he does: PEOPLE DON'T PARTICULARLY ENJOY THE SAME CRAP SHOVED DOWN THEIR THROATS EVERY WEEK! And ya know how the Rock knows? BC HE USED TO GET THE VERY SAME REACTIONS CENA HAS! That's why I don't listen much to all the negative talk about the Rock: when he was there every week, we complained about how crappy a wrestler he was; then we mark out when he comes back; THEN we b*tch bc he's not there every week.

I think this entire thing is something Cena can learn from; his loyalty does deserve praise, but excellence will trump that any day. You can't be mad at Rock for leaving WWE, going on to be successful in Hollywood, then coming back and bringing in TONS of media attention, giving you an even BIGGER stage to perform on; you can't admonish him for doing something you simply CANNOT do. Why does no one complain about the Undertaker coming in and taking up a major chunk of WM every year? Or HHH? or HBK? Just bc the Rock is famous outside of wrestling doesn't mean it's the only reason he's on WM. He is a wrestling ICON; that's why. Icons don't need to be on the show every week, it cheapens them (look at WCW in the late 90's: Savage, Hogan, Warrior, Flair, Piper; it was too much). The Rock has gon around all year building more and more hype around his match with Cena in places that there would be NO WRESTLING COVERAGE AT ALL, while Cena's been kicking the dead horse he killed a long time ago with his "Hustle Loyalty Respect."

[Big Red Machine]

You said that we weren’t supposed to take “The Rock has come home and he’s never leaving again” literally. So why did you say it? If it doesn’t mean that you are going to be a part of the show every week (hell… or even a third of the time), then what the hell does it mean?

I'm glad you asked this and all the folks who are against the Rock in this angle want an answer as well. Well, here it is: Remember when the Rock was officially done with the WWE? I think it was the cover of a GQ or some other male magazine where Rock was on the title and it read a quote: "the Rock is Dead". This was what the Rock said in the interview; he said the Rock was dead bc he was no longer a wrestler, but an actor. The Rock was his wrestling persona; Dwayne Johnson was the guy who played the Rock. When he came back and said the Rock was back, I took it to mean that the Rock (the professional wrestler) was coming back. When he said he's never gonna leave again, I took that to mean he would never abandon or forsake WWE again. I didn't expect to see the Rock on tv often, putting ppl in poorly executed Sharpshooters.

Choosing sides in this feud is a lot more simple than a lot of ppl notice. It's all about your concept of Loyalty. Cena claims he's the Man bc he remains THE guy by being there every week; Rock claims to be the man bc he doesn't need to be there every night. I'm on the Rock's side in this whole thing bc who's more beneficial to the WWE on a grand scale than the Great One? John Cena is known for being a wrestler; NOT an all around STAR. The Rock is drawing attention to WWE that no one in the WWE can pull bc he exists in more realms of entertainment. Cena's just a wrestler; the Rock is a wrestler, pop culture icon, and actor. It's a big deal for him to be there right now.

And the Rock brought up an EXCELLENT point in his promo tonite when he talked about why Cena gets the reaction he does: PEOPLE DON'T PARTICULARLY ENJOY THE SAME CRAP SHOVED DOWN THEIR THROATS EVERY WEEK! And ya know how the Rock knows? BC HE USED TO GET THE VERY SAME REACTIONS CENA HAS! That's why I don't listen much to all the negative talk about the Rock: when he was there every week, we complained about how crappy a wrestler he was; then we mark out when he comes back; THEN we b*tch bc he's not there every week.

I think this entire thing is something Cena can learn from; his loyalty does deserve praise, but excellence will trump that any day. You can't be mad at Rock for leaving WWE, going on to be successful in Hollywood, then coming back and bringing in TONS of media attention, giving you an even BIGGER stage to perform on; you can't admonish him for doing something you simply CANNOT do. Why does no one complain about the Undertaker coming in and taking up a major chunk of WM every year? Or HHH? or HBK? Just bc the Rock is famous outside of wrestling doesn't mean it's the only reason he's on WM. He is a wrestling ICON; that's why. Icons don't need to be on the show every week, it cheapens them (look at WCW in the late 90's: Savage, Hogan, Warrior, Flair, Piper; it was too much). The Rock has gon around all year building more and more hype around his match with Cena in places that there would be NO WRESTLING COVERAGE AT ALL, while Cena's been kicking the dead horse he killed a long time ago with his "Hustle Loyalty Respect."

I really don't think it is fair to say that John Cena has been shoved down people's throats. Being shoved down people's throats means a huge, almost unlikely push that people don't want to see. Being shoved down our throats is what is happeneing with Mike Bennett, Garrett Bischoff, or Kelly Kelly. Fans didn't start turning on Cena until 2006. To me, at least, it really just seemed like a case of internet fans being fickle, as most of these people were behind Cena during his rise to the top (even once he became a babyface), and people then decided that Cena, the main eventer who had once been a decidedly non-PG rapper and was now a run of the mill (albeit very charismatic) babyface whom littler children looked up to was the perfect target for these dislike for the PG Era. Cena is not beating a dead horse at all. He doesn't go out there every week and say "it is important to work you hardest, to believe in yourself, to respect others... say your prayers, eat your vitamins etc." He stands for those things by his actions.

As I said, people don't get pissed off about Triple H or Taker taking up a spot on the card at Mania because they know, in the back of their heads, that, at any point on WWE programming, one of those two men could walk down that aisle. With The Rock, there is no chance in hell he will ever be there unless he is advertised. It makes him feel like an outside celebrity, just like WWE has hyped up the appearances of their celebrity guest hosts. No one thinks that it is at all possible that Hugh Jackman will show up on Raw next week. And they have the same feeling about The Rock.

I think that your point about WCW is 100% wrong. People weren't unhappy because the legends were showing up every week. They were unhappy because they (mostly) were putting on crappy matches, being involved in crappily over-booked angles, and were taking TV time away from up and coming stars whom the people wanted to see more, like Jericho, DDP, Benoit, Raven, Hennig, etc. The fact that they were on TV every week wasn't the problem in and of itself.

Another problem I have with The Rock is that he isn't responding the way that you are. As I said, The Rock hasn't responded well to any of Cena's points, going all the way back to last February. All he does is spout off catchphrases and make up goofy new insults.

[Lynas]

I have to say it. I agree with BRM 100% and I think if everyone here is honest. We're all on Team Cena... his points are valid, and always have been, The Rock Arrives. Catchphrases. Dodges Accusations. Leaves.

The Rock has been "back" a whole year now, and in response to John Cena's beef with him, he's said NOTHING. Cena has put out 101 different arguments why he has beef with Dwayne Johnson each of them valid. "Where are you Movie Star?" "Where are you night after night 'People's Champion'?" "I used to be fan until you turned your back and walked away".

I'm Team Cena all the way on this one. I too would like to see the Rock ACTUALLY say something valid to this instead of turning up with old catchphrases and making shit up to trend on Twitter.

[badnewzxl]

I really don't think it is fair to say that John Cena has been shoved down people's throats. Being shoved down people's throats means a huge, almost unlikely push that people don't want to see. Being shoved down our throats is what is happeneing with Mike Bennett, Garrett Bischoff, or Kelly Kelly. Fans didn't start turning on Cena until 2006. To me, at least, it really just seemed like a case of internet fans being fickle, as most of these people were behind Cena during his rise to the top (even once he became a babyface), and people then decided that Cena, the main eventer who had once been a decidedly non-PG rapper and was now a run of the mill (albeit very charismatic) babyface whom littler children looked up to was the perfect target for these dislike for the PG Era. Cena is not beating a dead horse at all. He doesn't go out there every week and say "it is important to work you hardest, to believe in yourself, to respect others... say your prayers, eat your vitamins etc." He stands for those things by his actions.

As I said, people don't get pissed off about Triple H or Taker taking up a spot on the card at Mania because they know, in the back of their heads, that, at any point on WWE programming, one of those two men could walk down that aisle. With The Rock, there is no chance in hell he will ever be there unless he is advertised. It makes him feel like an outside celebrity, just like WWE has hyped up the appearances of their celebrity guest hosts. No one thinks that it is at all possible that Hugh Jackman will show up on Raw next week. And they have the same feeling about The Rock.

I think that your point about WCW is 100% wrong. People weren't unhappy because the legends were showing up every week. They were unhappy because they (mostly) were putting on crappy matches, being involved in crappily over-booked angles, and were taking TV time away from up and coming stars whom the people wanted to see more, like Jericho, DDP, Benoit, Raven, Hennig, etc. The fact that they were on TV every week wasn't the problem in and of itself.

Another problem I have with The Rock is that he isn't responding the way that you are. As I said, The Rock hasn't responded well to any of Cena's points, going all the way back to last February. All he does is spout off catchphrases and make up goofy new insults.

Being forced down one's throat means remaining in the same spot, being everywhere, and doing the same ol shit every week; Cena DOES do that. The guy doesn't have to be bad at what he does, but if he's been the same character for seven years and has made NO significant change then ppl are just gonna get tired of it. You can write it off and come up with any explanation you want as to why the fans don't like him anymore but the fans themselves'll give you a simple answer: WE'RE TIRED OF CENA! Tired of him ALWAYS being in the main event, always being champ, and NEVER giving us anything new. I'm not saying it's Cena's fault, but it is what it is. And HE DOES come out and repeat the same crap about Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect every week; are you kidding me?! He says that shit ALL THE TIME; you're not seriously trying to debate that are you? And I'm not saying he's a BAD character; he's just a lame ass character. Sorry; that's just how ppl see it obviously!

The point of the Rock telling everyone he was back was to PRESENT that mood that you mentioned about HHH and Taker. No one EVER thought they'd see the Rock in WWE again; after he returned and said he was back, suddenly the prospect was open. Now, at any moment the Rock may show up as well. Yeah, he's being advertised; but aren't you (BRM) the guy who always talks about how dumb it is not to promote it when a big star is showing up? So ppl KNOW to watch? No you're condemning them for doing it with the Rock? C'mon.

You obviously didn't watch WCW when it was on tv; they had GREAT matches of ALL kinds TWICE a week; the gripe with the fans was that all the old ass guys were champ. People didn't care about overbooking; they just wanted to see their favorite wrestlers each week and they got that. Beniot, Malenko, Jericho, Jarrett, Giant, Luger, Sting, Raven, Rey, Eddie, and others were featured on WCW programming at least twice a week! Who's taking time from them? I understand that the guys at the top didn't wanna move over and allow others to excel, but don't tell me the nWo and the older guys ate up all the tv time bc they didn't. Besides Hogan, Savage, and the Outsiders, the other members of the nWo RARELY even got tv time except during their team beatdowns. Flair and Piper didn't eat up much tv time, but ppl didn't believe the two of them and Hogan were still World champ material bc (as you said) they put on crappy matches; bc they were OLD (obviously, when they were young they could put on GREAT matches in the ring. Their age showed in their matches and ppl def saw that). It wasn't just bc they were old; but bc they were putting on shitty matches; but they were putting on shitty matches bc they were old.

the reason the Rock just spouts off catchphrases and and makes up goofy insults is bc THAT'S WHAT HE DOES. What's he spose to deny his fans what they expect just to give a stupid explanation that doesn't matter? He explained himself to the fans last night; why does he need to explain himself to Cena? The reason ppl like the Rock is bc he's his own man; he's a guy ppl look up to bc they ADMIRE him. You and others act like booing Cena is wrong bc you're not suppose to dislike him. Yeah, Cena stands for great concepts, but he (as an individual) can never be bigger than Hustle, Loyalty, Respect so as an individual it's hard to get behind him. The Rock's comment about Cena changing his attire is a perfect example of how Cena doesn't "get it." He knows he's coming off as stale so what does he do? Changes his ring attire: boo. I bet he'll get a haircut next.

[badnewzxl]

I have to say it. I agree with BRM 100% and I think if everyone here is honest. We're all on Team Cena... his points are valid, and always have been, The Rock Arrives. Catchphrases. Dodges Accusations. Leaves.

The Rock has been "back" a whole year now, and in response to John Cena's beef with him, he's said NOTHING. Cena has put out 101 different arguments why he has beef with Dwayne Johnson each of them valid. "Where are you Movie Star?" "Where are you night after night 'People's Champion'?" "I used to be fan until you turned your back and walked away".

I'm Team Cena all the way on this one. I too would like to see the Rock ACTUALLY say something valid to this instead of turning up with old catchphrases and making s**t up to trend on Twitter.

What you guys want in this instance just isn't gonna happen; you want the Rock to stop being the Rock. You want him to stop making the crowd hang off his every word, stop having fun with the fans, stop belittling his competition, and stop making the show a great SHOW; instead you want him to give you an explanation for him not being around in a business that he's already conquered.

I know it's hard to swallow, but the Rock isn't exclusive to wrestling only, just bc it's where he got his start. You're basically getting on the guy for "selling out" when ANYONE who jumps from another promotion to the WWE is labelled the same way!

The same things that Cena says are roughly the same things Rock said to Hogan; they're true, but wtf is your point, Cena? I guess we can expect Cena to do the same thing Flair, Hogan, and others have done in wrestling and overstay their welcome bc they never crossed over into other mediums of entertainment. I'd rather have the Rock popping up every now and then than see his skills and stroke diminish like we've seen WAAAY too many times.

I'm with Team Bring It.....jabroni

[Big Red Machine]

I really don't think it is fair to say that John Cena has been shoved down people's throats. Being shoved down people's throats means a huge, almost unlikely push that people don't want to see. Being shoved down our throats is what is happeneing with Mike Bennett, Garrett Bischoff, or Kelly Kelly. Fans didn't start turning on Cena until 2006. To me, at least, it really just seemed like a case of internet fans being fickle, as most of these people were behind Cena during his rise to the top (even once he became a babyface), and people then decided that Cena, the main eventer who had once been a decidedly non-PG rapper and was now a run of the mill (albeit very charismatic) babyface whom littler children looked up to was the perfect target for these dislike for the PG Era. Cena is not beating a dead horse at all. He doesn't go out there every week and say "it is important to work you hardest, to believe in yourself, to respect others... say your prayers, eat your vitamins etc." He stands for those things by his actions.

As I said, people don't get pissed off about Triple H or Taker taking up a spot on the card at Mania because they know, in the back of their heads, that, at any point on WWE programming, one of those two men could walk down that aisle. With The Rock, there is no chance in hell he will ever be there unless he is advertised. It makes him feel like an outside celebrity, just like WWE has hyped up the appearances of their celebrity guest hosts. No one thinks that it is at all possible that Hugh Jackman will show up on Raw next week. And they have the same feeling about The Rock.

I think that your point about WCW is 100% wrong. People weren't unhappy because the legends were showing up every week. They were unhappy because they (mostly) were putting on crappy matches, being involved in crappily over-booked angles, and were taking TV time away from up and coming stars whom the people wanted to see more, like Jericho, DDP, Benoit, Raven, Hennig, etc. The fact that they were on TV every week wasn't the problem in and of itself.

Another problem I have with The Rock is that he isn't responding the way that you are. As I said, The Rock hasn't responded well to any of Cena's points, going all the way back to last February. All he does is spout off catchphrases and make up goofy new insults.

Being forced down one's throat means remaining in the same spot, being everywhere, and doing the same ol s**t every week; Cena DOES do that. The guy doesn't have to be bad at what he does, but if he's been the same character for seven years and has made NO significant change then ppl are just gonna get tired of it. You can write it off and come up with any explanation you want as to why the fans don't like him anymore but the fans themselves'll give you a simple answer: WE'RE TIRED OF CENA! Tired of him ALWAYS being in the main event, always being champ, and NEVER giving us anything new. I'm not saying it's Cena's fault, but it is what it is. And HE DOES come out and repeat the same crap about Hustle, Loyalty, and Respect every week; are you kidding me?! He says that s**t ALL THE TIME; you're not seriously trying to debate that are you? And I'm not saying he's a BAD character; he's just a lame a** character. Sorry; that's just how ppl see it obviously!

The point of the Rock telling everyone he was back was to PRESENT that mood that you mentioned about HHH and Taker. No one EVER thought they'd see the Rock in WWE again; after he returned and said he was back, suddenly the prospect was open. Now, at any moment the Rock may show up as well. Yeah, he's being advertised; but aren't you (BRM) the guy who always talks about how dumb it is not to promote it when a big star is showing up? So ppl KNOW to watch? No you're condemning them for doing it with the Rock? C'mon.

You obviously didn't watch WCW when it was on tv; they had GREAT matches of ALL kinds TWICE a week; the gripe with the fans was that all the old a** guys were champ. People didn't care about overbooking; they just wanted to see their favorite wrestlers each week and they got that. Beniot, Malenko, Jericho, Jarrett, Giant, Luger, Sting, Raven, Rey, Eddie, and others were featured on WCW programming at least twice a week! Who's taking time from them? I understand that the guys at the top didn't wanna move over and allow others to excel, but don't tell me the nWo and the older guys ate up all the tv time bc they didn't. Besides Hogan, Savage, and the Outsiders, the other members of the nWo RARELY even got tv time except during their team beatdowns. Flair and Piper didn't eat up much tv time, but ppl didn't believe the two of them and Hogan were still World champ material bc (as you said) they put on crappy matches; bc they were OLD (obviously, when they were young they could put on GREAT matches in the ring. Their age showed in their matches and ppl def saw that). It wasn't just bc they were old; but bc they were putting on shitty matches; but they were putting on shitty matches bc they were old.

the reason the Rock just spouts off catchphrases and and makes up goofy insults is bc THAT'S WHAT HE DOES. What's he spose to deny his fans what they expect just to give a stupid explanation that doesn't matter? He explained himself to the fans last night; why does he need to explain himself to Cena? The reason ppl like the Rock is bc he's his own man; he's a guy ppl look up to bc they ADMIRE him. You and others act like booing Cena is wrong bc you're not suppose to dislike him. Yeah, Cena stands for great concepts, but he (as an individual) can never be bigger than Hustle, Loyalty, Respect so as an individual it's hard to get behind him. The Rock's comment about Cena changing his attire is a perfect example of how Cena doesn't "get it." He knows he's coming off as stale so what does he do? Changes his ring attire: boo. I bet he'll get a haircut next.

I can't believe I am agreeing with him about something, but SONIC said he was getting annoyed at how fickle fans can be. Fans wanted long title reigns? WWE put the belt on Cena for a year and people whined. The guy is a main eventer. Of course he is going to be in the main event. The fans were tired of EVERYONE always being champion. Cena. Batista, Orton, Triple H, Edge. At the end of the day, you are correct in that what matters is the reaction the fans give, rather than the reason for it, but that doesn't mean that segments of the population who enjoy discussing reasons (like everyone on this forum) can't get irritated by it.

When was the last time that Cena cut a generic promo about hustle, loyalty, and respect? He has talked about how it was important to him to be loyal to the WWE, or to be loyal to his friend Zack Ryder, but everyone makes it out as if we are dealing with Hulk Hogan telling people to say their prayers and eat their vitamins every week.

That might have been the goal of his statement, but that mood has not come across. With Taker and Triple, they show up, then something happens leading to a match. With Rock, he only shows up once the match has been announced (and by shows up, I mean cuts a promo via satellite, because he doesn't care enough to fly out to Raw). Also, for the record, I have been saying that you should promote your big MATCHES ahead of time. There are some things that should be surprises (just like The Rock returning was).

When I said the problem in WCW was match quality, I was referring to the quality of the matches that the older guys were putting on. Not the matches that Benoit, Guerrero, Malenko, Konnan, etc. were putting on. If Hogan and co. had been putting on matches at a decent level, people wouldn't have been so annoyed by it. People did care about the over-booking. That is why sh*t got so old so fast. Crap like the main event at Starrcade 97, and the crap that followed it. The title would always change hands due to some goofy-ass interference, and no matter what happened, it was always the same old sh*t with babyfaces getting beaten down.

Why can't The Rock do both? Why can't he incorporate the catchphrases into a promo that makes sense for the situation? That was what he did back when he was active, and everyone loved him for it.

Cena, as an individual, can't grow beyond hustle, loyalty, and respect because those are such overarching concepts that any thing he does can fit into one of those categories. It is not the concepts that his fans get behind. It is the person who practices them. Who always tries his hardest to do what is right, no matter what the personal risk to him might be. A man who never gives up, no matter how hard the task might me. If he can do it, he will. And if he can't... he can't... but he can hold his head up high and say "I gave it my all, but *insert wrestler here* was better than I was that night." We get behind Cena for his personal battles in putting those concepts into action.

[Big Red Machine]

I have to say it. I agree with BRM 100% and I think if everyone here is honest. We're all on Team Cena... his points are valid, and always have been, The Rock Arrives. Catchphrases. Dodges Accusations. Leaves.

The Rock has been "back" a whole year now, and in response to John Cena's beef with him, he's said NOTHING. Cena has put out 101 different arguments why he has beef with Dwayne Johnson each of them valid. "Where are you Movie Star?" "Where are you night after night 'People's Champion'?" "I used to be fan until you turned your back and walked away".

I'm Team Cena all the way on this one. I too would like to see the Rock ACTUALLY say something valid to this instead of turning up with old catchphrases and making s**t up to trend on Twitter.

What you guys want in this instance just isn't gonna happen; you want the Rock to stop being the Rock. You want him to stop making the crowd hang off his every word, stop having fun with the fans, stop belittling his competition, and stop making the show a great SHOW; instead you want him to give you an explanation for him not being around in a business that he's already conquered.

I know it's hard to swallow, but the Rock isn't exclusive to wrestling only, just bc it's where he got his start. You're basically getting on the guy for "selling out" when ANYONE who jumps from another promotion to the WWE is labelled the same way!

Not at all. What we want is The Rock to start acting like The Rock from 97-2003, when he would cut promos that were both extremely entertaining AND relevant to the situation. What we have been getting now is the guest-appearance Rock who just spouts off catchphrases. This is okay for guest appearances, but not for someone involved in a storyline. It really feels like Cena is trying to tell a story in this feud and The Rock isn't cooperating.

The issue isn't that The Rock left and came back (after all, we haven't said anything of the sort about Jericho). The issue is the way he left, and what he did during his time away. Even while he was still under WWE contract from 2002-2004, it felt like he was NEVER around. He left after the draft, then popped up again a few months later, stuck around for two months, then left for six more months, stuck around for three more months, then left again for ten months, then was gone. No goodbye. He just disappeared. Then, after he had been a way for long enough, he even stopped calling himself The Rock. It felt like he didn't want to be associated with wrestling.

The same things that Cena says are roughly the same things Rock said to Hogan; they're true, but wtf is your point, Cena? I guess we can expect Cena to do the same thing Flair, Hogan, and others have done in wrestling and overstay their welcome bc they never crossed over into other mediums of entertainment. I'd rather have the Rock popping up every now and then than see his skills and stroke diminish like we've seen WAAAY too many times.

I'm with Team Bring It.....jabroni

Not leaving the business for other projects and overstaying your welcome are two entirely different things. Plenty of guys have managed to not overstay their welcomes and not leave their wrestling career in middle for other things: Bradshaw, Lance Storm, DDP, Stone Cold, Luger, Barry Windham, Booker T... need I go on?

[badnewzxl]

I'm gonna respond in short bc this is just getting ridiculous:

1) Let's think about this before we start it with the bs fickle talk. The problem ppl have when labeling wrestling fans is that they assume there's some unanimous decision we come to as a whole as to who we like and dislike; not true at all. This convo PROVES that. The Christian stuff last year is the perfect example of this. I (whom always thought Christian should be Champ) rooted for him to win the title at Extreme Rules. Obviously, there were people out there who didn't like Christian or at least didn't want him to be champ, so they voiced THEIR opinion. Those within the business look at the fan base as one whole, so they look at it as if the same person is making both statements; flip flopping. This is NOT the case; wrestling fans are not fickle. If anything, we're some of the most stubborn fans of ANYTHING. The ppl who love Cena aren't suddenly turning against him; the ppl who dislike him are just speaking louder. Those within the industry just find it easier to demonize criticism than accept the fact that the fans' opinions are their own and when a storyline or angle doesn't work out the way they want it to, it's not the fans being fickle; it's that THEY didn't engage the audience as well as they set out to. A comedian doesn't bomb on stage and then blame the venue for it; he looks at his material and delivery and notes what he did wrong. Wrestling gets lazy a lot of times and tries to find ways to write their shortcomings off as the fans just being fickle (despite the fact that half those "fans" went along with the angle or actually liked it. Nonetheless, the blame the entirety of the wrestling fans).

2)The last time Cena cut a generic promo about Hustle, Loyalty, Respect? Almost every promo he's cut this year has been about that! I honestly don't know how you don't see that. Yeah, it's his character; his actions prove these things too, but that makes it even worse! He's two dimensional; plain an simple. There is absolutely NO mystery in John Cena; no unpredictability and that is BORING!

3) I'm just gonna leave this one alone bc obviously we have two very different views here. I don't see why you should promote MATCHES more than Special Appearances when it works the opposite way around ALL THE TIME in pro wrestling.

4) so, basically, we're agreeing here. then being old and having crappy matches went hand in hand. I'm telling you as a guy who watched WCW throughout that era, ppl didn't get tired of the overbooking of the nWo; ppl LOVED the nWo. The reason it failed was bc they didn't decided to go full on one way or the other (either have WCW banish the nWo or have nWo conquer WCW; there was no resolution to the angle). Your point about the match endings being too crazy are true, but THAT was the thing about WCW: they had great wrestling matches all over the undercard; the main events were where they incorporated most of the drama the fanbase required at that point. They did over-do it a bit, but during the time where this was the worst thing going on in WCW, it was the ONLY thing wrong with WCW (from a fans standpoint).

5) I'm guessing our bias in this argument is where we misunderstand each other here. What Cena questions did Rock NOT answer last night? I feel like you want him to make a power point and go point for point about it. And why would the Rock wanna directly answer Cena? He explained himself to the fans; the only ppl he cares about. Cena's another wrestler; the Rock doesn't give a crap what HE's confused about. you ask why does the Rock just spew catchphrases and not answer any questions; I say that's bc he's NEVER done that. I ask why does Cena continue to spew the same crap about Loyalty and Respect instead of doing something to get his naysayers off his back; you say it's bc that's NOT the type of guy he is. We both obviously have problems with the fundamental points of these guys' characters; they aren't doing anything wrong, but that doesn't mean we've got to like who they are.

6) the very things you mentioned here are the exact reasons I dislike Cena. He has NO vulnerability AND he's not impressive in the ring. He's built as this character who embodies these grand concepts but none of those concepts make him a better wrestler OR entertainer; and that's why ppl watch wrestling. Ppl don't watch wrestling to find a role model; they watch it to be entertained. Cena is just not entertaining bc ppl KNOW what he's gonna do and say almost every time they see him. I never believe that Cena is about to beat the crap out of anyone; I just don't buy it. He might win, but I've NEVER had the notion that John Cena is about to beat someone down. I just don't believe in him....

[badnewzxl]

I have to say it. I agree with BRM 100% and I think if everyone here is honest. We're all on Team Cena... his points are valid, and always have been, The Rock Arrives. Catchphrases. Dodges Accusations. Leaves.

The Rock has been "back" a whole year now, and in response to John Cena's beef with him, he's said NOTHING. Cena has put out 101 different arguments why he has beef with Dwayne Johnson each of them valid. "Where are you Movie Star?" "Where are you night after night 'People's Champion'?" "I used to be fan until you turned your back and walked away".

I'm Team Cena all the way on this one. I too would like to see the Rock ACTUALLY say something valid to this instead of turning up with old catchphrases and making s**t up to trend on Twitter.

What you guys want in this instance just isn't gonna happen; you want the Rock to stop being the Rock. You want him to stop making the crowd hang off his every word, stop having fun with the fans, stop belittling his competition, and stop making the show a great SHOW; instead you want him to give you an explanation for him not being around in a business that he's already conquered.

I know it's hard to swallow, but the Rock isn't exclusive to wrestling only, just bc it's where he got his start. You're basically getting on the guy for "selling out" when ANYONE who jumps from another promotion to the WWE is labelled the same way!

Not at all. What we want is The Rock to start acting like The Rock from 97-2003, when he would cut promos that were both extremely entertaining AND relevant to the situation. What we have been getting now is the guest-appearance Rock who just spouts off catchphrases. This is okay for guest appearances, but not for someone involved in a storyline. It really feels like Cena is trying to tell a story in this feud and The Rock isn't cooperating.

The issue isn't that The Rock left and came back (after all, we haven't said anything of the sort about Jericho). The issue is the way he left, and what he did during his time away. Even while he was still under WWE contract from 2002-2004, it felt like he was NEVER around. He left after the draft, then popped up again a few months later, stuck around for two months, then left for six more months, stuck around for three more months, then left again for ten months, then was gone. No goodbye. He just disappeared. Then, after he had been a way for long enough, he even stopped calling himself The Rock. It felt like he didn't want to be associated with wrestling.

The same things that Cena says are roughly the same things Rock said to Hogan; they're true, but wtf is your point, Cena? I guess we can expect Cena to do the same thing Flair, Hogan, and others have done in wrestling and overstay their welcome bc they never crossed over into other mediums of entertainment. I'd rather have the Rock popping up every now and then than see his skills and stroke diminish like we've seen WAAAY too many times.

I'm with Team Bring It.....jabroni

Not leaving the business for other projects and overstaying your welcome are two entirely different things. Plenty of guys have managed to not overstay their welcomes and not leave their wrestling career in middle for other things: Bradshaw, Lance Storm, DDP, Stone Cold, Luger, Barry Windham, Booker T... need I go on?

You say the Rock isn't cooperating just bc he's not accepting the role of heel like Cena wants him too! You agree with Cena about the Rock, so you want him to go along with the storyline, that's all.

Yeah, the Rock DID stop calling himself the Rock, but while you think it's bc he was ashamed of his history in the business, I say it was in order to step out of the shadow of pro wrestling. Can't blame the guy for wanting to further his reach; nor should you think him somehow selfish when he returns and uses his starpower to PROMOTE PRO WRESTLING! Nobody had a problem with Trish being gone for years and coming back and taking a WM spot bc SHE had paid her dues, yet they have a problem with the FRIGGIN ROCK?! Really?

as for your last point, are you saying now that the reason you're dissing on the Rock is bc he's actually left the ring to do something outside of the business? Cuz that's pretty petty. Did you not want Michael Jordan to return to the NBA in 96 just bc he left to play Baseball? All those guys you mentioned didn't have the opportunity to overstay their welcome bc Austin was FORCED into retirement, WWE wouldn't hire Luger after WCW folded (and if you watched WCW during it's last few years you'll see that Luger was AWFUL), and NONE of those other guys ever reached the level that a Rock or Cena or Hogan reached where they would be featured fso much that ppl got tired of them. Throughout his career (as you noted) the Rock has taken several breaks; but if you go back and actually LOOK at those periods of time you'll see that in most of those instances, the ppl had began to boo him just like they boo Cena! So he leaves, and when he comes back, he gets unanimous adoration from the crowd. This has ALWAYS worked for him, so why should he screw with it? Just to appease the same ppl who are gonna tell him how bad of a wrestler he is the moment he starts competing every week (bc he is NOT a great wrestler AT ALL)? You're expectations are just illogical.

[badnewzxl]

I liked Jericho and Punks segment but I have a problem with all this last of a breed talk. HHH and Taker; okay, I see what they're saying. They are the last two guys who are there from a certain era. Jericho tho; Punk IS of the same breed as Jericho (at least according to the criteria Jericho gave himself). Punk DID make a name for himself by wrestling all around the world and he WAS a major star before he joined the WWE (as have Daniel Bryan and Low Ki. Everyone LOVES to say "they don't make em like they use to" but they do).

[Rabid619]

Rock can be Rock and he can answer Cena. He says the catchphrases and insult people but if thats it then i'll remain on Team Cena.

[Serujuunin]

Rock can be Rock and he can answer Cena. He says the catchphrases and insult people but if thats it then i'll remain on Team Cena.

I completely agree. The Rock seemed like he was skirting all the points Cena made and just feeding off a portion of the audience's dislike for Cena for calling him names. And as much as I personally feel as though we've had Cena shoved down our throats in the recent past, I'm siding with Cena because he calls it like he sees it, and the way he sees it is the truth. And he's entertaining in the process.

I felt like when The Rock said whatever he said about how never leaving again wasn't the same thing as being there every week made him sound like a fool, because that's how everyone interpreted it and I don't honestly see how he could have thought it meant something else, but that's just me.

I LOVED the Punk/Jericho segment, and the rest was totally forgettable.

[Rabid619]

The way i see it is this, Dwayne Johnson is everywhere. The Rock only shows up between the ropes and even then he ducks the questions. He's being The Rock except he doesn't answer the questions.

[badnewzxl]

The way i see it is this, Dwayne Johnson is everywhere. The Rock only shows up between the ropes and even then he ducks the questions. He's being The Rock except he doesn't answer the questions.

bc the Rock doesn't get in between the ropes to answer questions; he gets in between the ropes to electrify the crowd and lay the smack down on candy asses. He doesn't get on the mic and spew a monologue trying to get ppl to be on his side; he just tells ppl what he's GONNA do. He IS being the Rock; the Rock doesn't answer to anybody unless HE wants to....

[Rabid619]

bc the Rock doesn't get in between the ropes to answer questions; he gets in between the ropes to electrify the crowd and lay the smack down on candy asses. He doesn't get on the mic and spew a monologue trying to get ppl to be on his side; he just tells ppl what he's GONNA do. He IS being the Rock; the Rock doesn't answer to anybody unless HE wants to....

The Rock used to make fun of people, get down to business then go back to making fun of people. Now he only makes fun of people. We see shades of what The Rock used to be but now he's ducking the questions.

[badnewzxl]

bc the Rock doesn't get in between the ropes to answer questions; he gets in between the ropes to electrify the crowd and lay the smack down on candy asses. He doesn't get on the mic and spew a monologue trying to get ppl to be on his side; he just tells ppl what he's GONNA do. He IS being the Rock; the Rock doesn't answer to anybody unless HE wants to....

The Rock used to make fun of people, get down to business then go back to making fun of people. Now he only makes fun of people. We see shades of what The Rock used to be but now he's ducking the questions.

answering questions was never a part of the Rock's deal; the "getting down to business" he did was putting boots to asses; and he'd make fun of a guy WHILE doing it!

what question did he duck? In fact, what questions did Cena even ask? NONE, he just came out and said his piece, so the Rock did the same....

[Lynas]

bc the Rock doesn't get in between the ropes to answer questions; he gets in between the ropes to electrify the crowd and lay the smack down on candy asses. He doesn't get on the mic and spew a monologue trying to get ppl to be on his side; he just tells ppl what he's GONNA do. He IS being the Rock; the Rock doesn't answer to anybody unless HE wants to....

The Rock used to make fun of people, get down to business then go back to making fun of people. Now he only makes fun of people. We see shades of what The Rock used to be but now he's ducking the questions.

answering questions was never a part of the Rock's deal; the "getting down to business" he did was putting boots to asses; and he'd make fun of a guy WHILE doing it!

what question did he duck? In fact, what questions did Cena even ask? NONE, he just came out and said his piece, so the Rock did the same....

For about 12 months now, John Cena has been asking The Rock, Why'd you leave if you love the people so much? Why haven't you come back before now if you love the people so much? Where are you night after night if you love these people and this business? And of course, the stupid quote of "I'm back and I'm never going away..." Where are you now Rock? Making another movie...

Cena has asked many questions in the last 12 months and made many points. The Rock hasn't answered any except for his back tracking on the "I'm back and I'm never going away" he told us that we all took it wrong... but he never told us how we were meant to take it.

[badnewzxl]

Really? ALL THOSE QUESTIONS ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME THING?! THE ROCK ANSWERED THAT QUESTION! He didn't come back sooner for the same reason he's not on the show week after week: BC HE KNOWS THE WWE UNIVERSE DOESN'T LIKE HAVING PPL JAMMED DOWN THEIR THROATS! He's already been there (where Cena is now) several times in his career; in that spot where you tip and the fans start booing you bc they're tired of you. That's Rock's answer; take it or leave it. It seems that Team Cena just wants the Rock to give and say "Cena, you're right;" that's obviously never gonna happen. The only reason I'm on the Rock's side is bc Cena's spending all this time explaining why he's the good guy in this scenario; instead of just hyping the fight. I should be about the Rock v. John Cena; not 'the boys' v. 'the ppl' bc then, someone important is gonna lose out.

BTW, I am BLOWN away by how big a bunch of marks Cena and Rock have got us ALL being right now

[Lynas]

That's complete Horseshit if Rock DID say that because he's not sporadic because of being shoved down people's throats, he's sporadic because he turned his back and left the business that made him without so much as a proper goodbye and wades back in whenever he feels necessary to make movies. That's Ego.

By that logic he's either a liar or stupid.