2 cents: Michael Cole

[Rabid619]

We have talked about in dozens of topics and the question has been asked many times. What are you thoughts and opinions of Michael Cole?

[Verdun]

He's toning himself down which is good.
He's not leaving the announcer booth which is even better.

I think he still needs to lower his tone just a bit and he'll be in a good spot.
He's got serious potential as a heel commentator and I'd hope that eventually he'll hit that sweet spot.
Where he's heel and not turning off viewers.

[Styles]

Damn good at his job behind the scenes.

One of the best play by play announcers on the screen.

Makes a great heel.

[Earth Child]

He got so annoying around Wrestlemania that it became cringe worthy watching him.

Now, not so bad

[badnewzxl]

Damn good at his job behind the scenes.

One of the best play by play announcers on the screen.

Makes a great heel.

I wish there was a smiley that shows me spitting my beer out of my mouth....

Are you serious?

1) how do you know how good he is at his job behind the scenes?
2) I hope you don't mean of all time, bc that couldn't be any further from the truth. Mike Tenay (despite sucking it hard for the last 5 to 6 years) has done MUCH better than Cole has for his 13. If he WAS good at his job, why would they bring JR back SPECIFICALLY to do play by play?
3)he's a good heel; not great by any standards. The greats would be Ventura, Heenan, and Heyman; no other commentators even come close. He's not even on King & JBL's level....

Michael Cole is still mega inaccurate with his commentary, he takes away from matches by coaxing JR and King into arguments, he undercuts ALL the other commentators and make them look worse than he is (which severely hurts the product, esp considering the fact that COLE CAN'T GET OVER AS A GOOD COMMENTATOR BC HE IS NOT GOOD AT HIS JOB!

[Styles]

Damn good at his job behind the scenes.

One of the best play by play announcers on the screen.

Makes a great heel.

I wish there was a smiley that shows me spitting my beer out of my mouth....

Are you serious?

1) how do you know how good he is at his job behind the scenes?
2) I hope you don't mean of all time, bc that couldn't be any further from the truth. Mike Tenay (despite sucking it hard for the last 5 to 6 years) has done MUCH better than Cole has for his 13. If he WAS good at his job, why would they bring JR back SPECIFICALLY to do play by play?
3)he's a good heel; not great by any standards. The greats would be Ventura, Heenan, and Heyman; no other commentators even come close. He's not even on King & JBL's level....


Michael Cole is still mega inaccurate with his commentary, he takes away from matches by coaxing JR and King into arguments, he undercuts ALL the other commentators and make them look worse than he is (which severely hurts the product, esp considering the fact that COLE CAN'T GET OVER AS A GOOD COMMENTATOR BC HE IS NOT GOOD AT HIS JOB!

Read anywhere and it will tell you how good Cole is.

Secondly. Jr's Voice is the voice of Raw. Cole has done every WWE show for quite sometime now, he's the voice of the WWE!

Thirdly, he got over bad as a heel earlier this year. People hated him, he did his job absolutely correctly.

[badnewzxl]

Damn good at his job behind the scenes.

One of the best play by play announcers on the screen.

Makes a great heel.

I wish there was a smiley that shows me spitting my beer out of my mouth....

Are you serious?

1) how do you know how good he is at his job behind the scenes?
2) I hope you don't mean of all time, bc that couldn't be any further from the truth. Mike Tenay (despite sucking it hard for the last 5 to 6 years) has done MUCH better than Cole has for his 13. If he WAS good at his job, why would they bring JR back SPECIFICALLY to do play by play?
3)he's a good heel; not great by any standards. The greats would be Ventura, Heenan, and Heyman; no other commentators even come close. He's not even on King & JBL's level....


Michael Cole is still mega inaccurate with his commentary, he takes away from matches by coaxing JR and King into arguments, he undercuts ALL the other commentators and make them look worse than he is (which severely hurts the product, esp considering the fact that COLE CAN'T GET OVER AS A GOOD COMMENTATOR BC HE IS NOT GOOD AT HIS JOB!

Read anywhere and it will tell you how good Cole is.

Secondly. Jr's Voice is the voice of Raw. Cole has done every WWE show for quite sometime now, he's the voice of the WWE!

Thirdly, he got over bad as a heel earlier this year. People hated him, he did his job absolutely correctly.

I don't read other ppl's opinions of folks and adopt them as my own; I form my opinions myself.

JR has been regularly on RAW for years;Cole has. If Cole couldn't become the new "voice of RAW" in the time he's had with just him and King, then he OBVIOUSLY isn't doing that good of a job.

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo; Cole is nowhere near that level....

[Styles]

I don't read other ppl's opinions of folks and adopt them as my own; I form my opinions myself.

JR has been regularly on RAW for years;Cole has. If Cole couldn't become the new "voice of RAW" in the time he's had with just him and King, then he OBVIOUSLY isn't doing that good of a job.

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo; Cole is nowhere near that level....

Firstly, I'm not "taking Big Red's word as gospel". A heel's job is to be disliked. Michael Cole was booked to be a cringeworthy heel who people wanted off their screens, he was booked that way and he did fucking well at it. When before then has Michael Cole truly bothered you? It was a character he was told to play and he did it well. You cannot dispute that.

Being a heel wrestler is different. You're comparing him to the wrong people. You've gone off track and begun comparing him to tweeners and so hated their loved kinda guys, that's not the discussion at hand.

Cole has a great voice, but for as long as JR can talk, people want to hear him, there's no better announcer in the business. IF he's available, why not use him?

If Cole was that bad at his job, he wouldn't be commentating on EVERYTHING that goes on WWE TV would he?

[Big Red Machine]

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo

WHOA! I'm pretty sure that I am also solidly on the side of "what your character does makes you a heel, not the reaction you get." I just tend to blame smarks for doing things like cheering heel douchbaggery and cheating rather than the wrestlers.

[Big Red Machine]

Answering a few random points here:
1. JR was brought back not because Cole wasn't good at his job, but because WWE constantly books for the cheap pop, which absolutely kills things.
2. I agree that Cole (and King, too) constantly trying to get into arguments and bury the other instead of calling the match is detrimental to the show.
3. Cole was a great character, and having a heel was a much needed breath of fresh air in the commentary booth (the closest thing WWE had had recently was the semi-smarky tweenerism of Matt Striker). The problems was the WWE saw how well the character was working and put too much of a focus on it. They screwed up with the Mania match and by including too much stuff after that. Nobody wants to see the deck stacked against the babyface, which is exactly what WWE did. They should have had JBL as the Special Guest Referee and Swagger on the outside, constantly stopping Lawler and letting Cole gloat, until Dragon (the guy through whom Cole initially became a heel) got involved and took out Swagger, then have The Rock take out JBL, and assign a regular referee to the match, letting Lawler give Cole his comeuppance. Adding in JR and the Divas and Cole's incessant bragging hurt the feud, and during the payoff, I actually felt sorry for Cole, as he was now being ganged up on by 4 people (because a 4-on-1 beatdown of an announcer is what a good bayface does). WWE took Cole's success too far. It isn't Cole's fault.

4. As for comparing his heat to those of a wrestler, I am split. Styles brings up a good point, that an announcer will never get that kind of heat (a manager might, but not an announcer). At the same time, I agree with Badnewz in that if a heel is so annoying that you don't want to watch the show anymore, then it has gone to far. The point of a heel is to want to see him/her get an ass-kicking. If the heels bothers you enough that you don't care anymore and just want to shut off the TV, the heel has failed in his/her goal.

[Rabid619]

4. As for comparing his heat to those of a wrestler, I am split. Styles brings up a good point, that an announcer will never get that kind of heat (a manager might, but not an announcer). At the same time, I agree with Badnewz in that if a heel is so annoying that you don't want to watch the show anymore, then it has gone to far. The point of a heel is to want to see him/her get an ass-kicking. If the heels bothers you enough that you don't care anymore and just want to shut off the TV, the heel has failed in his/her goal.

Only problem i have with Cole is that for the lack of a better phrase and the fact from the sounds of it thats likely true, Cole has an orgasm whenever Miz is shown or talked about. They need to tone that down a bit.

[Shogun Rua]

Cole is not a good announcer... Ever since he's turned heel, it's been the same thing every week. Arguing with Lawler (now JR as well), his non-stop praise of the Miz, and the ridiculous things he says sometimes. He tries so hard to praise all of the heels when they cheat, that he just sounds stupid. He's not hated because he's a heel, he's hated because he's a f*cking idiot.

[Rabid619]

Cole is not a good announcer... Ever since he's turned heel, it's been the same thing every week. Arguing with Lawler (now JR as well), his non-stop praise of the Miz, and the ridiculous things he says sometimes. He tries so hard to praise all of the heels when they cheat, that he just sounds stupid. He's not hated because he's a heel, he's hated because he's a f*cking idiot.

He's toned down his heel love outside of Miz since OTL. When Del Rio attacked Mysterio & Cena in back to back weeks, Cole didn't praise Del Rio or make an excuse for it. He acted like an unbiased announcer, not a full on heel.

[badnewzxl]

I don't read other ppl's opinions of folks and adopt them as my own; I form my opinions myself.

JR has been regularly on RAW for years;Cole has. If Cole couldn't become the new "voice of RAW" in the time he's had with just him and King, then he OBVIOUSLY isn't doing that good of a job.

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo; Cole is nowhere near that level....

Firstly, I'm not "taking Big Red's word as gospel". A heel's job is to be disliked. Michael Cole was booked to be a cringeworthy heel who people wanted off their screens, he was booked that way and he did f***ing well at it. When before then has Michael Cole truly bothered you? It was a character he was told to play and he did it well. You cannot dispute that.

Being a heel wrestler is different. You're comparing him to the wrong people. You've gone off track and begun comparing him to tweeners and so hated their loved kinda guys, that's not the discussion at hand.

Cole has a great voice, but for as long as JR can talk, people want to hear him, there's no better announcer in the business. IF he's available, why not use him?

If Cole was that bad at his job, he wouldn't be commentating on EVERYTHING that goes on WWE TV would he?

1) Cole was not booked to be cringeworthy and annoying; folks (such as myself) have thought him to suck for YEARS before they "turned him heel" on NXT. Ppl have ALWAYS hated Cole; he's not a good play by play commentator. I've NEVER liked him for that very reason. It doesn't matter how he plays the heel; ppl dislike him regardless, always have. That doesn't prove that he's good at getting ppl to dislike him; it proves that he's NO good at getting ppl TO like him. So I DEF CAN dispute that, jabroni.

2) I'm not off track at all; how does one become a "tweener?" BY BECOMING SUCH A POPULAR HEEL THAT PPL CHEER HIM; which is exactly what I said. Furthermore, a "tweener" is still a bad guy bc they still do things that are looked down on. Just because someone cheers you DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE A FACE, nor does it ruin you as a heel. The fans are not part of the damn show; some ppl just like bad guys.

You don't wanna talk about wrestlers? Then how about Bobby Heenan and Jesse Ventura? THOSE guys were good as heel commentators bc they justified the actions of the heel wrestlers; they didn't just try to annoy the fans watching. It was about GETTING THE TALENT OVER; NOT THEMSELVES. Cole only gets himself over on commentary; no one else.

3) I don't care how good his voice is, PPL HAVE ALWAYS HATED IT! He's been calling RAW for five or six years and the fans have continuously begged JR to come back; hell, they accepted Joey Styles (whom most of the WWE Universe wasn't even very familiar with) over Cole. You may like him, but you're in the minority. His heel turn wasn't some genius idea someone in creative or VKM or HHH came up with out of the blue; they just finally started listening to the fans instead of trying to MAKE them like Cole (which WWE does ALL THE TIME). If Cole was good at his job, he wouldn't have HAD to turn heel, and he DID have to turn heel.

[badnewzxl]

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo

WHOA! I'm pretty sure that I am also solidly on the side of "what your character does makes you a heel, not the reaction you get." I just tend to blame smarks for doing things like cheering heel douchbaggery and cheating rather than the wrestlers.

So, you don't base your belief of who's heel and who's face on the crowd reaction; you just condemn fans for cheering for heels or booing faces....Am I the only one who sees just how much this sounds like the same thing :-\ ?

[Big Red Machine]

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo

WHOA! I'm pretty sure that I am also solidly on the side of "what your character does makes you a heel, not the reaction you get." I just tend to blame smarks for doing things like cheering heel douchbaggery and cheating rather than the wrestlers.

So, you don't base your belief of who's heel and who's face on the crowd reaction; you just condemn fans for cheering for heels or booing faces....Am I the only one who sees just how much this sounds like the same thing :-\ ?

I base my belief on the actions of the characters. If Chris Hero comes out and craps on the crowd, he is a heel. Just because there are some morons in the front row chanting "CHRIS IS AWESOME!" while he is doing it does not make him a face.

[KILLdozer]

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo

WHOA! I'm pretty sure that I am also solidly on the side of "what your character does makes you a heel, not the reaction you get." I just tend to blame smarks for doing things like cheering heel douchbaggery and cheating rather than the wrestlers.

So, you don't base your belief of who's heel and who's face on the crowd reaction; you just condemn fans for cheering for heels or booing faces....Am I the only one who sees just how much this sounds like the same thing :-\ ?

hm im confused as you cuz im getting mixed up just trying to see what you mean by all this :-\

[Big Red Machine]

I don't read other ppl's opinions of folks and adopt them as my own; I form my opinions myself.

JR has been regularly on RAW for years;Cole has. If Cole couldn't become the new "voice of RAW" in the time he's had with just him and King, then he OBVIOUSLY isn't doing that good of a job.

BEING A GOOD HEEL ISN'T ALL ABOUT BEING HATED; IT'S ABOUT BEING A BAD GUY! You've gotta stop taking BRM's word as gospel, kid. Ric Flair was a great heel during the 80's and the early 90's DESPITE being beloved by some fans. He was a heel bc he exemplified character traits that were considered bad; but he did so in such a way that he was still appealling, like Razor, Rock, Austin, Punk, Danielson, etc. Hell, the Rock and Punk had to remind the fans that they didn't care for the fans in order to get them to boo; Cole is nowhere near that level....

Firstly, I'm not "taking Big Red's word as gospel". A heel's job is to be disliked. Michael Cole was booked to be a cringeworthy heel who people wanted off their screens, he was booked that way and he did f***ing well at it. When before then has Michael Cole truly bothered you? It was a character he was told to play and he did it well. You cannot dispute that.

Being a heel wrestler is different. You're comparing him to the wrong people. You've gone off track and begun comparing him to tweeners and so hated their loved kinda guys, that's not the discussion at hand.

Cole has a great voice, but for as long as JR can talk, people want to hear him, there's no better announcer in the business. IF he's available, why not use him?

If Cole was that bad at his job, he wouldn't be commentating on EVERYTHING that goes on WWE TV would he?

1) Cole was not booked to be cringeworthy and annoying; folks (such as myself) have thought him to suck for YEARS before they "turned him heel" on NXT. Ppl have ALWAYS hated Cole; he's not a good play by play commentator. I've NEVER liked him for that very reason. It doesn't matter how he plays the heel; ppl dislike him regardless, always have. That doesn't prove that he's good at getting ppl to dislike him; it proves that he's NO good at getting ppl TO like him. So I DEF CAN dispute that, jabroni.

2) I'm not off track at all; how does one become a "tweener?" BY BECOMING SUCH A POPULAR HEEL THAT PPL CHEER HIM; which is exactly what I said. Furthermore, a "tweener" is still a bad guy bc they still do things that are looked down on. Just because someone cheers you DOESN'T MEAN YOU'RE A FACE, nor does it ruin you as a heel. The fans are not part of the damn show; some ppl just like bad guys.

You don't wanna talk about wrestlers? Then how about Bobby Heenan and Jesse Ventura? THOSE guys were good as heel commentators bc they justified the actions of the heel wrestlers; they didn't just try to annoy the fans watching. It was about GETTING THE TALENT OVER; NOT THEMSELVES. Cole only gets himself over on commentary; no one else.

3) I don't care how good his voice is, PPL HAVE ALWAYS HATED IT! He's been calling RAW for five or six years and the fans have continuously begged JR to come back; hell, they accepted Joey Styles (whom most of the WWE Universe wasn't even very familiar with) over Cole. You may like him, but you're in the minority. His heel turn wasn't some genius idea someone in creative or VKM or HHH came up with out of the blue; they just finally started listening to the fans instead of trying to MAKE them like Cole (which WWE does ALL THE TIME). If Cole was good at his job, he wouldn't have HAD to turn heel, and he DID have to turn heel.

1. People have always pooped on Cole because he isn't JR. The things everyone used to complain about (i.e. "vintage") are things that other announcers do to. Hell, there are clips of both JR and Punk saying vintage from way before it became a thing with Cole.

2. No someone becomes a tweener by being booked as a tweener. Badnews Brown was a great example. He wasn't a babyface, but he wasn't a heel either. He was just a guy there to do to his job. He wouldn't run out and make the save for a babyface, but he wouldn't do a heel beatdown either. He was a tweener. A heel who gets cheers (KoW are great examples of this) are not tweeners. Punk is a tweener now, but not because of the cheers he is getting, but because of what they are doing with him. Punk was a heel until after Money in the Bank. He became a tweener by getting screwed by heels (Nash, Del Rio). By your definition, Cena would be a tweener, as he gets a mixed crowd reaction. Cena is clearly a face.

[kiel297]

Can I just point out that Michael Cole says exactly what Vince McMahon wants him to say? Every time he takes a shot at King or JR, Vince told him to do it. Every time he has an orgasm over The Miz, vince tells him to do it.

As far as his job of being a WWE broadcast announcer goes, he is fucking brilliant at what he does. Jim Ross has stated this. His former partner JBL has stated this. According to JBL, is so good at his job that he would have no notes, nothing, and he would be able to get through the entire show perfectly, literally just playing off of whatever Michael Cole said and did. He takes notes on absolutely everything he needs to, and he says and does everything he's told to say and do.

That is what his job is, and it's a fucking hard one at that. His job IS NOT to be the next JR or the second coming of Bobby Heenan. His job is to provide commentary on a sports entertainment show. He's not THE BEST play by play guy around, but when it comes to him doing his job, he is one of the best that money can buy.

To immediately label Michael Cole as the worst commentator ever just because he's not as good as Jim Ross is unfair. But hey, this is the IWC where it's popular to shit on absolutely everything because it's not the best television you've seen in your life.

[badnewzxl]

1. People have always pooped on Cole because he isn't JR. The things everyone used to complain about (i.e. "vintage") are things that other announcers do to. Hell, there are clips of both JR and Punk saying vintage from way before it became a thing with Cole.

2. No someone becomes a tweener by being booked as a tweener. Badnews Brown was a great example. He wasn't a babyface, but he wasn't a heel either. He was just a guy there to do to his job. He wouldn't run out and make the save for a babyface, but he wouldn't do a heel beatdown either. He was a tweener. A heel who gets cheers (KoW are great examples of this) are not tweeners. Punk is a tweener now, but not because of the cheers he is getting, but because of what they are doing with him. Punk was a heel until after Money in the Bank. He became a tweener by getting screwed by heels (Nash, Del Rio). By your definition, Cena would be a tweener, as he gets a mixed crowd reaction. Cena is clearly a face.

1. No; ppl have always crapped on Cole bc he sucks at his job. Ppl hated him before he was calling everything vintage; we just don't like him. Now, ppl are talking about how good he is just to spite those of us who've hated him forever. Plain and simple.

2) Bad News Brown was a heel; he was a loner heel, but a heel none the less. this whole idea of a tweener just feeds into that stupid idea that faces get along with faces and heels get along with heels; which is bogus.Basically, you're saying the only thing that makes someone a tweener is the fact that they have no allegiences. Punk's a tweener bc of Nash & Del Rio? Was he not doing the same exact things before Summerslam and after MITB as he did after SS? Yes; he was. So what's the difference?