WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

[cero2k]

I was half way through answering all that, but you obviously support companies over people. I'll never understand that.

And if you don't actually read my posts, you'll never understand what I was trying to say, either

Reading is your friend

Look at the established pattern of facts in the way that WWE handles contracts:
1. They are willing to keep people who don't want to work there under contract and pay them a bunch of money to barely use them on TV just to prevent them from going to AEW.

2. They are willing to WAY overpay people just to make sure that they don't go to AEW, even if WWE themselves has very in the way of plans for them.

3. Over the past five or so years WWE's MO has been to just let someone's contract run out rather than release them, just to avoid the bad PR of having fired someone, unless there are major behavioral problems involved (Simon Gotch, Alicia Fox), or someone really, truly, refusing to come to work (Aries, Pac), and then only after a long fight.

While the recent releases fit your narrative of corporate greed, neither the recent releases nor the pattern of behavior established above fit that narrative . So I will repeat::
I feel for the low-level NXT people like MJ Jenkins, who weren't making main roster money. I think it was tacky to let both members of a married couple go when they could have easily fed Raymond Rowe by just paying Sarah Logan. But I don't think they are under any obligation to their employees to keep them under contract when the company is clearly getting worried. Your instinct is to blame this on "corporate greed." Mine is to say that Vince is an insecure old man and a little paranoid, and given those parameters, I think he is acting the way one might expect an insecure and slightly paranoid old man who just suffered a big financial loss to act in this situation.

That's not caring about corporations over people. It's not letting the size of someone's bank account predetermine my belief in their innocence or guilt, and not forgetting that corporations are run by humans and thus subject to the whims of those human's emotions in their management decisions.

I'm also, quite frankly, a little tired of people calling WWE greedy corporate bastards in every news story that fits that narrative, but not acknowledging the things that WWE does with it's money that it is under no obligation to do. Things like paying for people's rehab, or giving old-timers in bad financial straights these "legends deals" that give them steady pay and a chance to make some merch money in exchange for a few trips to Florida or Connecticut a year to tape stuff for DVD/WWE Network (assuming WWE doesn't just fly people to their living rooms to tape it from the comfort of their own homes. If you're going to bury WWE for every time that they don't live up to your moral expectations, them you also need to be praising them every time they go above and beyond. To not do so exposes a bias. (If you'll notice, I usually don't comment on either types of story, mostly because I think it's obvious that something is or isn't a nice thing to do and doesn't need to be said out loud because everyone already knows it).

I read your whole post, i just couldn't bring myself to answering because this is going to go forever and we're in two completely different spectrums on where our priorities lay.

You seem to be willingly ignoring everything about how this is preparing profits for the investors call. There is no excuse, not a single one, to fire your employees during a disaster JUST to meet your profit projections right before the investors call. This isn't business, this isn't 'financial security', this is greed, plain and simple. Great American Greed.
Saying that this is all because Vince is senile and insecure is not an excuse, it's all the same, his paranoia is not about WWE going out of business, it's about not making the investors happy on Thursday. EVERYTHING that WWE does is to make the company make more and more. The new taping schedule FUCKS the talent, but benefits monetarily the company. Yeah, WWE is run by people too, rich people that have zero regard for other humans. They're scum.

It's not that it 'fits the story', I call them like I see them. They're a greedy corporation, they've been one since their inception. They've always cared more about the company over their employees, over the industry, over everything. So they do 3 nice things that they don't have 'obligation', what about the obligation to take care of your employees during a world disaster?

[cero2k]

From what I've read here and there (so take it with a nice bucket of salt), those 500M WWE supposedly has in the bank are more like 90M with the rest being more or less loans or whatever they could take if things go south. Not saying that they're going bankrupt tomorrow, but that's a bit more concerning since I don't believe they'll hold any kind of crowded event for a year (yes, I'm including WM37), which leads to my second point.

With no house shows on sight, they're paying the vast majority of MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED wrestlers to sit at home and do nothing. Hell, two of their top stars (Reigns and Bryan) will be sitting at home until this whole thing blows over. The newbies in NXT will basically lose a year because I doubt they are training much right now judging by who they released in the trainers/producers department and aren't gaining experience either because there are no house shows. Like I said earlier, I'm surprised there isn't a lot more people released (like most of the NXT UK , 205, and older "untelevised" NXT guys), but maybe that'll come up later.

Finally, most of the guys they released weren't happy to be there (™) and some were pretty vocal about it. Like, Bennett was basically paid 500k a year to work the NXT Florida house shows at this point, you can't tell me he didn't know full well that he was one of the least important guys on the roster.

The house shows and tapings had been losing money for a while, not doing them and doing RAW/Smackdown/NXT all in the PC has actually started saving them a LOT of money. They have the money to have everyone sit home and be safe.

The argument is not whether these people should be released or not, it's the timing of the releases. I think that aside from the producers, all the releases we warranted for either reason, just not right now.

[Big Red Machine]

I was half way through answering all that, but you obviously support companies over people. I'll never understand that.

And if you don't actually read my posts, you'll never understand what I was trying to say, either

Reading is your friend

Look at the established pattern of facts in the way that WWE handles contracts:
1. They are willing to keep people who don't want to work there under contract and pay them a bunch of money to barely use them on TV just to prevent them from going to AEW.

2. They are willing to WAY overpay people just to make sure that they don't go to AEW, even if WWE themselves has very in the way of plans for them.

3. Over the past five or so years WWE's MO has been to just let someone's contract run out rather than release them, just to avoid the bad PR of having fired someone, unless there are major behavioral problems involved (Simon Gotch, Alicia Fox), or someone really, truly, refusing to come to work (Aries, Pac), and then only after a long fight.

While the recent releases fit your narrative of corporate greed, neither the recent releases nor the pattern of behavior established above fit that narrative . So I will repeat::
I feel for the low-level NXT people like MJ Jenkins, who weren't making main roster money. I think it was tacky to let both members of a married couple go when they could have easily fed Raymond Rowe by just paying Sarah Logan. But I don't think they are under any obligation to their employees to keep them under contract when the company is clearly getting worried. Your instinct is to blame this on "corporate greed." Mine is to say that Vince is an insecure old man and a little paranoid, and given those parameters, I think he is acting the way one might expect an insecure and slightly paranoid old man who just suffered a big financial loss to act in this situation.

That's not caring about corporations over people. It's not letting the size of someone's bank account predetermine my belief in their innocence or guilt, and not forgetting that corporations are run by humans and thus subject to the whims of those human's emotions in their management decisions.

I'm also, quite frankly, a little tired of people calling WWE greedy corporate bastards in every news story that fits that narrative, but not acknowledging the things that WWE does with it's money that it is under no obligation to do. Things like paying for people's rehab, or giving old-timers in bad financial straights these "legends deals" that give them steady pay and a chance to make some merch money in exchange for a few trips to Florida or Connecticut a year to tape stuff for DVD/WWE Network (assuming WWE doesn't just fly people to their living rooms to tape it from the comfort of their own homes. If you're going to bury WWE for every time that they don't live up to your moral expectations, them you also need to be praising them every time they go above and beyond. To not do so exposes a bias. (If you'll notice, I usually don't comment on either types of story, mostly because I think it's obvious that something is or isn't a nice thing to do and doesn't need to be said out loud because everyone already knows it).

I read your whole post, i just couldn't bring myself to answering because this is going to go forever and we're in two completely different spectrums on where our priorities lay.

You seem to be willingly ignoring everything about how this is preparing profits for the investors call. There is no excuse, not a single one, to fire your employees during a disaster JUST to meet your profit projections right before the investors call. This isn't business, this isn't 'financial security', this is greed, plain and simple. Great American Greed.
Saying that this is all because Vince is senile and insecure is not an excuse, it's all the same, his paranoia is not about WWE going out of business, it's about not making the investors happy on Thursday. EVERYTHING that WWE does is to make the company make more and more. The new taping schedule FUCKS the talent, but benefits monetarily the company. Yeah, WWE is run by people too, rich people that have zero regard for other humans. They're scum.

It's not that it 'fits the story', I call them like I see them. They're a greedy corporation, they've been one since their inception. They've always cared more about the company over their employees, over the industry, over everything. So they do 3 nice things that they don't have 'obligation', what about the obligation to take care of your employees during a world disaster?

Done for the sake of the investors call? Maybe. But maybe not. But the investors understand that coronavirus has wrought havoc on everything. They might not know sh*t about wrestling, but they know not to expect the same profit margin this year.
If Vince is doing this to sure up the projections it's because of his own paranoia, not greed. This might well wind up costing them MORE right now, depending on how the contract releases work (in most places, you have to pay the athlete a large lump sump that is some prorated percentage of what their total earning would have been over the course of the contract.

Yes, the new taping schedule is worse for the talent (although it might well be better for the production people, who are getting paid for more dates overall and on a more steady schedule), but if the networks do try to invoke some clause in the deal, then- in Vince's mindset, everyone in the company will suffer because WWE budgeted for things (including contracts) based on certain expected revenues. Do you think WWE could have been throwing around all of the money they have been throwing at talent recently if it wasn't for the Fox deal?

Every company is greedy. No one goes into any business to lose money. If you do, that's not a business; it's a hobby.

Businesses have the obligation to take care of their employees as stipulated in the contract, and nothing else. Similarly, an employee (or independent contractor) owes the company nothing that is not stipulated in the contract. Lots of places are letting people go even if they think they have the money to keep paying their full staff for a while, because then they're going to be in even more trouble when that period of time runs out. Very few places put "you can't fire me if a crisis of some kind causes the economy to go to sh*t in their contract.

Also, here is a list from 2018 (and salaries have only gone up since then for people who had their contracts come up between now and then). Then remember that this is just their downside, and a chunk of them probably made a lot more than this over the past few years (and then you factor in merch and licensing rights).

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sp ... a-14069375

Most of the people who got released will be fine if they can't work for a few months. Some of them probably even a year.


Also, reports are now that they're going back to pre-tapes as of last Friday. Does this sort of rapid-fire changing seem like the behavior of a rational mind right now?

[Big Red Machine]

From what I've read here and there (so take it with a nice bucket of salt), those 500M WWE supposedly has in the bank are more like 90M with the rest being more or less loans or whatever they could take if things go south. Not saying that they're going bankrupt tomorrow, but that's a bit more concerning since I don't believe they'll hold any kind of crowded event for a year (yes, I'm including WM37), which leads to my second point.

With no house shows on sight, they're paying the vast majority of MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED wrestlers to sit at home and do nothing. Hell, two of their top stars (Reigns and Bryan) will be sitting at home until this whole thing blows over. The newbies in NXT will basically lose a year because I doubt they are training much right now judging by who they released in the trainers/producers department and aren't gaining experience either because there are no house shows. Like I said earlier, I'm surprised there isn't a lot more people released (like most of the NXT UK , 205, and older "untelevised" NXT guys), but maybe that'll come up later.

Finally, most of the guys they released weren't happy to be there (™) and some were pretty vocal about it. Like, Bennett was basically paid 500k a year to work the NXT Florida house shows at this point, you can't tell me he didn't know full well that he was one of the least important guys on the roster.

The house shows and tapings had been losing money for a while, not doing them and doing RAW/Smackdown/NXT all in the PC has actually started saving them a LOT of money. They have the money to have everyone sit home and be safe.

The argument is not whether these people should be released or not, it's the timing of the releases. I think that aside from the producers, all the releases we warranted for either reason, just not right now.

The house shows lose money, but they keep the talent happy and get them paid more.

The tapings might lose money on the gate, but without the tapings there are on rights deals, so to say that they are losing money is silly.


Yes, taping at the PC has saved them a bunch of money (OVW, CHIKARA, CMLL, and AEW have used this trick as well), but do we know if they (and ROH and AEW, for that matter) are getting back deposits they put down for the arenas they were supposed to be running? And do we know that the money they're saving by running in a building they own is enough to cancel out the fact that they're not getting any money at the gate or from live merch sales?

[cero2k]

Done for the sake of the investors call? Maybe. But maybe not. But the investors understand that coronavirus has wrought havoc on everything. They might not know sh*t about wrestling, but they know not to expect the same profit margin this year.
If Vince is doing this to sure up the projections it's because of his own paranoia, not greed. This might well wind up costing them MORE right now, depending on how the contract releases work (in most places, you have to pay the athlete a large lump sump that is some prorated percentage of what their total earning would have been over the course of the contract.

Yes, the new taping schedule is worse for the talent (although it might well be better for the production people, who are getting paid for more dates overall and on a more steady schedule), but if the networks do try to invoke some clause in the deal, then- in Vince's mindset, everyone in the company will suffer because WWE budgeted for things (including contracts) based on certain expected revenues. Do you think WWE could have been throwing around all of the money they have been throwing at talent recently if it wasn't for the Fox deal?

Every company is greedy. No one goes into any business to lose money. If you do, that's not a business; it's a hobby.

Businesses have the obligation to take care of their employees as stipulated in the contract, and nothing else. Similarly, an employee (or independent contractor) owes the company nothing that is not stipulated in the contract. Lots of places are letting people go even if they think they have the money to keep paying their full staff for a while, because then they're going to be in even more trouble when that period of time runs out. Very few places put "you can't fire me if a crisis of some kind causes the economy to go to sh*t in their contract.

Also, here is a list from 2018 (and salaries have only gone up since then for people who had their contracts come up between now and then). Then remember that this is just their downside, and a chunk of them probably made a lot more than this over the past few years (and then you factor in merch and licensing rights).

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sp ... a-14069375

Most of the people who got released will be fine if they can't work for a few months. Some of them probably even a year.


Also, reports are now that they're going back to pre-tapes as of last Friday. Does this sort of rapid-fire changing seem like the behavior of a rational mind right now?

Paranoia to lose money IS part of being greedy. It doesn't matter what the investors will think, the McMahons are acting regardless of that, to them, beating the projections is what matters.

The tapings don't benefit any person with a family or that live with someone. All those that have to now travel every monday can't see their families if they want to protect them from getting sick, they have to be on constant quarantine because one week is not enough. If Vince was really worried about his employees and the Fox deal, then call them and reach to an agreement and understanding. It's pretty obvious right now that if they're going back to tapings, that the show doesn't have to be live, so there is no risk to taping a month worth of shows to allow your employees to stay home, safe. Except they did what benefits the company.

Other companies doing it is not an excuse, they're shit companies too. Non-rational mind is not an excuse.

Wrestlers making good money is not a reason to think they're going to be 'ok' so it's fine to fire them. If it really was a temporal thing and we think 'they'll be ok', then fire Ronda Rousey and Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns who we're 99.99% sure know they're not going to suffer financially and they're definitely not gonna come to tapings and we know their salaries could had probably paid up for all the released staff and talent.
Furthermore, your list doesn't include the NXT people, writing staff, producers, referee.

unless someone is blindly on the side of company before people, there's no way to twist this and excuse it.

[cero2k]

The house shows lose money, but they keep the talent happy and get them paid more.

The tapings might lose money on the gate, but without the tapings there are on rights deals, so to say that they are losing money is silly.


Yes, taping at the PC has saved them a bunch of money (OVW, CHIKARA, CMLL, and AEW have used this trick as well), but do we know if they (and ROH and AEW, for that matter) are getting back deposits they put down for the arenas they were supposed to be running? And do we know that the money they're saving by running in a building they own is enough to cancel out the fact that they're not getting any money at the gate or from live merch sales?

The tapings bring in the network moneys, but they can still make money as themselves. They could be smarter and better to not lose that money. They were not always losing money.

Deposits are drops in an ocean for WWE, but going by the fake dilemma that WWE had with Wrestlemania, if a state's closure forces WWE to stop a show, insurance pays the damages. Any show they could had already been deposited were likely in states with better sense to lockdown before Florida.
I'm sure if we ask Meltzer he can gives the difference between saving in tapings and losing in tickets and live merch. I would imagine he is considering that when he said that the shows are now profitable. Either way, the difference, if any, can not be that big to really matter.

This has become one of those conversations we used to have with Impact were you would argue a plot hole and I would come up with tons of 'What if" and "maybe", but we've switched sides.

[KILLdozer]

The house shows lose money, but they keep the talent happy and get them paid more.

The tapings might lose money on the gate, but without the tapings there are on rights deals, so to say that they are losing money is silly.


Yes, taping at the PC has saved them a bunch of money (OVW, CHIKARA, CMLL, and AEW have used this trick as well), but do we know if they (and ROH and AEW, for that matter) are getting back deposits they put down for the arenas they were supposed to be running? And do we know that the money they're saving by running in a building they own is enough to cancel out the fact that they're not getting any money at the gate or from live merch sales?

The tapings bring in the network moneys, but they can still make money as themselves. They could be smarter and better to not lose that money. They were not always losing money.

Deposits are drops in an ocean for WWE, but going by the fake dilemma that WWE had with Wrestlemania, if a state's closure forces WWE to stop a show, insurance pays the damages. Any show they could had already been deposited were likely in states with better sense to lockdown before Florida.
I'm sure if we ask Meltzer he can gives the difference between saving in tapings and losing in tickets and live merch. I would imagine he is considering that when he said that the shows are now profitable. Either way, the difference, if any, can not be that big to really matter.

*This has become one of those conversations we used to have with Impact were you would argue a plot hole and I would come up with tons of 'What if" and "maybe", but we've switched sides.*

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/50e9a3fd-0 ... 709a45d661

[Big Red Machine]

Done for the sake of the investors call? Maybe. But maybe not. But the investors understand that coronavirus has wrought havoc on everything. They might not know sh*t about wrestling, but they know not to expect the same profit margin this year.
If Vince is doing this to sure up the projections it's because of his own paranoia, not greed. This might well wind up costing them MORE right now, depending on how the contract releases work (in most places, you have to pay the athlete a large lump sump that is some prorated percentage of what their total earning would have been over the course of the contract.

Yes, the new taping schedule is worse for the talent (although it might well be better for the production people, who are getting paid for more dates overall and on a more steady schedule), but if the networks do try to invoke some clause in the deal, then- in Vince's mindset, everyone in the company will suffer because WWE budgeted for things (including contracts) based on certain expected revenues. Do you think WWE could have been throwing around all of the money they have been throwing at talent recently if it wasn't for the Fox deal?

Every company is greedy. No one goes into any business to lose money. If you do, that's not a business; it's a hobby.

Businesses have the obligation to take care of their employees as stipulated in the contract, and nothing else. Similarly, an employee (or independent contractor) owes the company nothing that is not stipulated in the contract. Lots of places are letting people go even if they think they have the money to keep paying their full staff for a while, because then they're going to be in even more trouble when that period of time runs out. Very few places put "you can't fire me if a crisis of some kind causes the economy to go to sh*t in their contract.

Also, here is a list from 2018 (and salaries have only gone up since then for people who had their contracts come up between now and then). Then remember that this is just their downside, and a chunk of them probably made a lot more than this over the past few years (and then you factor in merch and licensing rights).

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/other-sp ... a-14069375

Most of the people who got released will be fine if they can't work for a few months. Some of them probably even a year.


Also, reports are now that they're going back to pre-tapes as of last Friday. Does this sort of rapid-fire changing seem like the behavior of a rational mind right now?

Paranoia to lose money IS part of being greedy. It doesn't matter what the investors will think, the McMahons are acting regardless of that, to them, beating the projections is what matters.

The tapings don't benefit any person with a family or that live with someone. All those that have to now travel every monday can't see their families if they want to protect them from getting sick, they have to be on constant quarantine because one week is not enough. If Vince was really worried about his employees and the Fox deal, then call them and reach to an agreement and understanding. It's pretty obvious right now that if they're going back to tapings, that the show doesn't have to be live, so there is no risk to taping a month worth of shows to allow your employees to stay home, safe. Except they did what benefits the company.

Other companies doing it is not an excuse, they're shit companies too. Non-rational mind is not an excuse.

Wrestlers making good money is not a reason to think they're going to be 'ok' so it's fine to fire them. If it really was a temporal thing and we think 'they'll be ok', then fire Ronda Rousey and Brock Lesnar and Roman Reigns who we're 99.99% sure know they're not going to suffer financially and they're definitely not gonna come to tapings and we know their salaries could had probably paid up for all the released staff and talent.
Furthermore, your list doesn't include the NXT people, writing staff, producers, referee.

unless someone is blindly on the side of company before people, there's no way to twist this and excuse it.

1. I don't think they're flying production people in. I think they're using locals in Florida who happen to work for WWE already (and I'd guess that at this point a good chunk of their production people either live near the PC or Stamford).

2. It's not "paranoia to lose money." It's paranoia to lose one's livelihood. That's what Vince thinks could happen to him. Do I think that's unfounded? Yes. But as I pointed out above, this sort of thing does not fit Vince's usual pattern of treating talent. I think he's scared sh*tless and thus acting irrationally. You might not want to admit it because he's rich and because he's the evil Vince McMahon who killed wrestling, but Vince is a human being, too, and thus he deserves everyone making some attempt at sympathizing with him and trying to understand his feelings just as much as everyone else in the world does.

3. For all we know, Vince switched back to tapings rather than going live because the networks told him not to worry about it. In fact, that seems like the most logical thing to me.

4. You know... I don't seem to recall you bringing up how asking people to come to travel and come to work was a moral evil because it was endangering them and their families when AEW was running tapings. I will now accept your rant on what evil, greedy corporate assholes Cody, Tony, Kenny, Brandi, and the Bucks are.

5. If I remember correctly, WWE (and AEW, for that matter) had a policy in place where no one had to come to work if they didn't want to, and people wold not be punished for not coming to work (and no, these releases clearly aren't punishment for not working because a bunch of the people who got laid off were working the shows.

6. I think that them making good enough money that they'll be okay for a few months is a reason that this isn't the moral evil you're trying to portray it as. These are not shift-workers at restaurants.

7. Trust me. I wish they'd fire Ronda and Brock. Firing Roman would open them up to a lawsuit because they already told people that we won't punish you if you don't feel safe coming to work, and that is exactly why Roman pulled out.

8. Even in circumstances like this, business strategy still applies. That's just being a responsible business owner. If AEW gets to point where they have to let people go, you can be sure that Butcher & Blade and Private Party will be gone long before Lucha Bros, and you wouldn't bat an eyelash at it. They're going to keep their top names and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and you know it.

9. You're right about the NXT people and the and the producers and the referees. And like I said before, it sucks and I wish it didn't happen. They shouldn't have let them go, but they apparently felt they needed to. But by the same argument, the NXT people probably aren't going to affect the bottom line anywhere near as much as a few main roster cuts would.

10. For Chioda and Silfies in particular... do you think Vince WANTED to get rid of people who have been with him for over thirty years? They were probably the referee and non-Kevin Dunn production person who were making the most.

[Big Red Machine]

Hesitant to trust it due to lack of sourcing, but here is what a search result for WWE referee salaries turned up:

https://www.sportekz.com/money/wwe-referees-salaries/

They'll be fine for a few months.

[Big Red Machine]

The house shows lose money, but they keep the talent happy and get them paid more.

The tapings might lose money on the gate, but without the tapings there are on rights deals, so to say that they are losing money is silly.


Yes, taping at the PC has saved them a bunch of money (OVW, CHIKARA, CMLL, and AEW have used this trick as well), but do we know if they (and ROH and AEW, for that matter) are getting back deposits they put down for the arenas they were supposed to be running? And do we know that the money they're saving by running in a building they own is enough to cancel out the fact that they're not getting any money at the gate or from live merch sales?

The tapings bring in the network moneys, but they can still make money as themselves. They could be smarter and better to not lose that money. They were not always losing money.

Deposits are drops in an ocean for WWE, but going by the fake dilemma that WWE had with Wrestlemania, if a state's closure forces WWE to stop a show, insurance pays the damages. Any show they could had already been deposited were likely in states with better sense to lockdown before Florida.
I'm sure if we ask Meltzer he can gives the difference between saving in tapings and losing in tickets and live merch. I would imagine he is considering that when he said that the shows are now profitable. Either way, the difference, if any, can not be that big to really matter.

This has become one of those conversations we used to have with Impact were you would argue a plot hole and I would come up with tons of 'What if" and "maybe", but we've switched sides.

Fair point about the insurance.

My point is that the tapings still make money because they are what brings in the rights fees. Of course they could be making more money if they were booked better thus bringing the gate up, but WWE could probably save a lot of money if they just nixed house shows (although there is an argument to be made that they are necessary for the development of wrestlers who got rushed up from NXT). If they stopped running tapings, they'd lose billions.

[cero2k]

1. I don't think they're flying production people in. I think they're using locals in Florida who happen to work for WWE already (and I'd guess that at this point a good chunk of their production people either live near the PC or Stamford).

2. It's not "paranoia to lose money." It's paranoia to lose one's livelihood. That's what Vince thinks could happen to him. Do I think that's unfounded? Yes. But as I pointed out above, this sort of thing does not fit Vince's usual pattern of treating talent. I think he's scared sh*tless and thus acting irrationally. You might not want to admit it because he's rich and because he's the evil Vince McMahon who killed wrestling, but Vince is a human being, too, and thus he deserves everyone making some attempt at sympathizing with him and trying to understand his feelings just as much as everyone else in the world does.

3. For all we know, Vince switched back to tapings rather than going live because the networks told him not to worry about it. In fact, that seems like the most logical thing to me.

4. You know... I don't seem to recall you bringing up how asking people to come to travel and come to work was a moral evil because it was endangering them and their families when AEW was running tapings. I will now accept your rant on what evil, greedy corporate assholes Cody, Tony, Kenny, Brandi, and the Bucks are.

5. If I remember correctly, WWE (and AEW, for that matter) had a policy in place where no one had to come to work if they didn't want to, and people wold not be punished for not coming to work (and no, these releases clearly aren't punishment for not working because a bunch of the people who got laid off were working the shows.

6. I think that them making good enough money that they'll be okay for a few months is a reason that this isn't the moral evil you're trying to portray it as. These are not shift-workers at restaurants.

7. Trust me. I wish they'd fire Ronda and Brock. Firing Roman would open them up to a lawsuit because they already told people that we won't punish you if you don't feel safe coming to work, and that is exactly why Roman pulled out.

8. Even in circumstances like this, business strategy still applies. That's just being a responsible business owner. If AEW gets to point where they have to let people go, you can be sure that Butcher & Blade and Private Party will be gone long before Lucha Bros, and you wouldn't bat an eyelash at it. They're going to keep their top names and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and you know it.

9. You're right about the NXT people and the and the producers and the referees. And like I said before, it sucks and I wish it didn't happen. They shouldn't have let them go, but they apparently felt they needed to. But by the same argument, the NXT people probably aren't going to affect the bottom line anywhere near as much as a few main roster cuts would.

10. For Chioda and Silfies in particular... do you think Vince WANTED to get rid of people who have been with him for over thirty years? They were probably the referee and non-Kevin Dunn production person who were making the most.

2. Lol, a 74 yr-old billionaire worried about livelihood. Get out of here. I nominate that for post of the year. He should be worried about getting sick instead.

4. You're missing the point, the problem is not doing tapings, i'm not advocating to 100% stop wrestling. I'm saying do it in a way that benefits and protects your staff and talent as the priority, and not the company's profit margins. I don't have to blame AEW because they're not doing shows every week for the benefit of the company, they taped a ton of episodes so people have time to go home, quarantine, and get to see their families. Impact taped more than usual.
If we're gonna bring up AEW, let's compare the culture we're seeing. (5) Yeah, all companies are pretty much 'come if you want', but look at who has their champions on TV? Mox isn't there. Tessa and The North cancelled their Rebellion matches. Rush and Naito are not even sweating it. WWE has both Galloway and Strowman there, and the latter is a prime example that they change pushes and booking because they want the champion to be there. AEW has JR home, Impact has Callis home, WWE has Lawler there in person. The culture between these promotions is visibly different.
(1) they're surely not traveling, but they are going to work weekly to a job that is 1000% not essential, being there WITH people who are traveling and people who are touching each other as part of the job.

6. And the WWE is not a mom and pop shop either. WWE is far better prepared to 'be ok' through this, than the fired employees. You say that Vince is worried about his livelihood, well, he fucked over a lot of people's livelihoods for that, because he's full of greed and egoism and we know that he'll step over everyone all the time. Who is to say that the industry won't be hurt enough at the end and some of these people will not find jobs? it's not like AEW is just going to hire everyone. WWE fired people when they knew other promotions wouldn't be able to pick them up.

7. Oh no, that doesn't matter. They're all cost reducing reasons, it's not because he didn't want to come to work. Hell, it's a furlough!, he's coming back when it's all settle. He'll be ok.

8. But it hasn't happened, it hasn't happened in one single major promotion in the world, except the Fed. If you want to use other promotions as the excuse that it's all business, then you're gonna have to wait for another major promotion to do it. Up until now, WWE is shit.

10. Maybe, employees with long history tend to earn a lot more than those doing the same thing that were just hired, and we know Vince is not hyped about 'old' people. In Vince's deranged mind, he probably thinks that he's helping them stay home by firing them

[cero2k]

My point is that the tapings still make money because they are what brings in the rights fees. Of course they could be making more money if they were booked better thus bringing the gate up, but WWE could probably save a lot of money if they just nixed house shows (although there is an argument to be made that they are necessary for the development of wrestlers who got rushed up from NXT). If they stopped running tapings, they'd lose billions.

no one is saying they need to stop tapings, there be no promotion without them right now, but they could be done to benefit the staff and talent, not the profit margin.

[KILLdozer]

I hate to say this point, but slightly different topic...maybe we'll finally see less of Elias Fuckin Sampson?

[Big Red Machine]

1. I don't think they're flying production people in. I think they're using locals in Florida who happen to work for WWE already (and I'd guess that at this point a good chunk of their production people either live near the PC or Stamford).

2. It's not "paranoia to lose money." It's paranoia to lose one's livelihood. That's what Vince thinks could happen to him. Do I think that's unfounded? Yes. But as I pointed out above, this sort of thing does not fit Vince's usual pattern of treating talent. I think he's scared sh*tless and thus acting irrationally. You might not want to admit it because he's rich and because he's the evil Vince McMahon who killed wrestling, but Vince is a human being, too, and thus he deserves everyone making some attempt at sympathizing with him and trying to understand his feelings just as much as everyone else in the world does.

3. For all we know, Vince switched back to tapings rather than going live because the networks told him not to worry about it. In fact, that seems like the most logical thing to me.

4. You know... I don't seem to recall you bringing up how asking people to come to travel and come to work was a moral evil because it was endangering them and their families when AEW was running tapings. I will now accept your rant on what evil, greedy corporate assholes Cody, Tony, Kenny, Brandi, and the Bucks are.

5. If I remember correctly, WWE (and AEW, for that matter) had a policy in place where no one had to come to work if they didn't want to, and people wold not be punished for not coming to work (and no, these releases clearly aren't punishment for not working because a bunch of the people who got laid off were working the shows.

6. I think that them making good enough money that they'll be okay for a few months is a reason that this isn't the moral evil you're trying to portray it as. These are not shift-workers at restaurants.

7. Trust me. I wish they'd fire Ronda and Brock. Firing Roman would open them up to a lawsuit because they already told people that we won't punish you if you don't feel safe coming to work, and that is exactly why Roman pulled out.

8. Even in circumstances like this, business strategy still applies. That's just being a responsible business owner. If AEW gets to point where they have to let people go, you can be sure that Butcher & Blade and Private Party will be gone long before Lucha Bros, and you wouldn't bat an eyelash at it. They're going to keep their top names and that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and you know it.

9. You're right about the NXT people and the and the producers and the referees. And like I said before, it sucks and I wish it didn't happen. They shouldn't have let them go, but they apparently felt they needed to. But by the same argument, the NXT people probably aren't going to affect the bottom line anywhere near as much as a few main roster cuts would.

10. For Chioda and Silfies in particular... do you think Vince WANTED to get rid of people who have been with him for over thirty years? They were probably the referee and non-Kevin Dunn production person who were making the most.

2. Lol, a 74 yr-old billionaire worried about livelihood. Get out of here. I nominate that for post of the year. He should be worried about getting sick instead.

4. You're missing the point, the problem is not doing tapings, i'm not advocating to 100% stop wrestling. I'm saying do it in a way that benefits and protects your staff and talent as the priority, and not the company's profit margins. I don't have to blame AEW because they're not doing shows every week for the benefit of the company, they taped a ton of episodes so people have time to go home, quarantine, and get to see their families. Impact taped more than usual.
If we're gonna bring up AEW, let's compare the culture we're seeing. (5) Yeah, all companies are pretty much 'come if you want', but look at who has their champions on TV? Mox isn't there. Tessa and The North cancelled their Rebellion matches. Rush and Naito are not even sweating it. WWE has both Galloway and Strowman there, and the latter is a prime example that they change pushes and booking because they want the champion to be there. AEW has JR home, Impact has Callis home, WWE has Lawler there in person. The culture between these promotions is visibly different.
(1) they're surely not traveling, but they are going to work weekly to a job that is 1000% not essential, being there WITH people who are traveling and people who are touching each other as part of the job.

6. And the WWE is not a mom and pop shop either. WWE is far better prepared to 'be ok' through this, than the fired employees. You say that Vince is worried about his livelihood, well, he fucked over a lot of people's livelihoods for that, because he's full of greed and egoism and we know that he'll step over everyone all the time. Who is to say that the industry won't be hurt enough at the end and some of these people will not find jobs? it's not like AEW is just going to hire everyone. WWE fired people when they knew other promotions wouldn't be able to pick them up.

7. Oh no, that doesn't matter. They're all cost reducing reasons, it's not because he didn't want to come to work. Hell, it's a furlough!, he's coming back when it's all settle. He'll be ok.

8. But it hasn't happened, it hasn't happened in one single major promotion in the world, except the Fed. If you want to use other promotions as the excuse that it's all business, then you're gonna have to wait for another major promotion to do it. Up until now, WWE is shit.

10. Maybe, employees with long history tend to earn a lot more than those doing the same thing that were just hired, and we know Vince is not hyped about 'old' people. In Vince's deranged mind, he probably thinks that he's helping them stay home by firing them

2. He probably is worried about getting sick. And my whole point is that the man doesn't seem to be very mentally well. I think it's entirely possible that his mindset is "oh my G-d I just lost a whole bunch of money the XFL and now I need to do whatever it takes to ensure that I don't lose WWE, too, because without WWE, I don't have anything."

4. And WWE is taping in bunches, now, too. Doing tapings in way that AEW did is hard on the workers(both wrestling and production), as TNA learned. I don't see much wrong with WWE asking employees to drive in their cars to a building a few times a month. WWE employees should be using the same common sense rules that apply to employees of any other business that is currently open ("if you don't feel well or think you might have been exposed, STAY HOME!" etc.). WWE isn't asking people to fly across the country (and they should be discouraging people from doing so).

5.A. Mox was at the tapings (unless he and Swagger wrestled in a totally different building)
5.B. The Strowman change was about more than that. Firstly, they weren't going to keep the belt on Goldberg either way because Goldberg wasn't going to wrestle much. Secondly, they couldn't deliver advertised match, so they delivered a match with a finish they thought fans would like. "If you need to make a substitution you have the babyface go over" is a very old rule of booking to make the fans happy even though they didn't get to see the advertised match. They're not punishing Roman for staying home. They'll put the belt right back on him at the first big PPV after things open up again.
5.C. When it comes to WWE having a lot more people show up than over promotions, you're forgetting the two following important points:
- A huge chunk of the roster lives in the Orlando area anyway.
- A bunch of them probably wanted to make sure they were able to be there for Mania anyway and just decided not to go home (a bunch of the are living on friends couches because hotel rooms are already all booked up).

I agree that Lawler shouldn't be there, but he is. Hell, I don't think any company should have more than one announcer around (although, again, WWE has a lot more of them withing driving distance). And you're forgetting that WWE DOES have some announcers home (Mauro, Nigel).

6. I agree that WWE is probably more likely to come out of this fine than AEW due to money they have in reserve, but WWE also has expenses that are far greater than AEW's. As Thelone noted, they had OVER TWO HUNDRED wrestlers under contract, and that's just wrestlers. They've also got more production staff, NXT trainers, people on legends deals, etc.

Most other promotions might not be able to pick these people up right now... although AEW absolute could make offers right now if they wanted to. They have the money to do so, but it's not necessarily a smart move to start paying when you don't know how long you'll actually be able to use them for because they might not be able to start for six months. But even if AEW doesn't make any offers right now, that doesn't change the fact that these people will be free agents in a little over 90 days (actually they're all free agents now, but can't appear anywhere until the 90 days are up. There is no reason they can't sign with someone and shoot promos to be released at a later date), and when things do open up again, there is going to be a lot of competition for the ones people want, and WWE will have to pay a lot more to get these guys than they were making when they were released.

For the Tino Sabbattellis of the world there wouldn't be a bidding war for them under normal circumstances, either.

7. I guess McDevitt didn't feel confident making that argument in front of a jury. Also, I think we both know that WWE wants Brock and Ronda at least nominally under contract for the next few years just because they will help with the next round of Fox and USA negotiations.

8. No, I don't have to wait for that to happen, because we all know it's true. Lucha Bros are worth more than Private Party and Blutcher & Blade combined, so if AEW were ever in financial straits, they'd keep them on at the cost of the other four. It's how every promotion ever has operated. ROH early on would rather not bring in four JAPW flippy guys than not pay for Dragon's plane ticket, TNA let numerous interchangable X-Division guys go before they told James Storm they couldn't pay him what he wanted, and WCW released all of the Nitro Girls and most of the Cruiserweights but never even tried to cut Sting (or, if you prefer, there was a reason Rey was kept under contract when most of the other luchadors were let go).

[cero2k]

[cero2k]

2. He probably is worried about getting sick. And my whole point is that the man doesn't seem to be very mentally well. I think it's entirely possible that his mindset is "oh my G-d I just lost a whole bunch of money the XFL and now I need to do whatever it takes to ensure that I don't lose WWE, too, because without WWE, I don't have anything."

4. And WWE is taping in bunches, now, too. Doing tapings in way that AEW did is hard on the workers(both wrestling and production), as TNA learned. I don't see much wrong with WWE asking employees to drive in their cars to a building a few times a month. WWE employees should be using the same common sense rules that apply to employees of any other business that is currently open ("if you don't feel well or think you might have been exposed, STAY HOME!" etc.). WWE isn't asking people to fly across the country (and they should be discouraging people from doing so).

5.A. Mox was at the tapings (unless he and Swagger wrestled in a totally different building)
5.B. The Strowman change was about more than that. Firstly, they weren't going to keep the belt on Goldberg either way because Goldberg wasn't going to wrestle much. Secondly, they couldn't deliver advertised match, so they delivered a match with a finish they thought fans would like. "If you need to make a substitution you have the babyface go over" is a very old rule of booking to make the fans happy even though they didn't get to see the advertised match. They're not punishing Roman for staying home. They'll put the belt right back on him at the first big PPV after things open up again.
5.C. When it comes to WWE having a lot more people show up than over promotions, you're forgetting the two following important points:
- A huge chunk of the roster lives in the Orlando area anyway.
- A bunch of them probably wanted to make sure they were able to be there for Mania anyway and just decided not to go home (a bunch of the are living on friends couches because hotel rooms are already all booked up).

I agree that Lawler shouldn't be there, but he is. Hell, I don't think any company should have more than one announcer around (although, again, WWE has a lot more of them withing driving distance). And you're forgetting that WWE DOES have some announcers home (Mauro, Nigel).

6. I agree that WWE is probably more likely to come out of this fine than AEW due to money they have in reserve, but WWE also has expenses that are far greater than AEW's. As Thelone noted, they had OVER TWO HUNDRED wrestlers under contract, and that's just wrestlers. They've also got more production staff, NXT trainers, people on legends deals, etc.

Most other promotions might not be able to pick these people up right now... although AEW absolute could make offers right now if they wanted to. They have the money to do so, but it's not necessarily a smart move to start paying when you don't know how long you'll actually be able to use them for because they might not be able to start for six months. But even if AEW doesn't make any offers right now, that doesn't change the fact that these people will be free agents in a little over 90 days (actually they're all free agents now, but can't appear anywhere until the 90 days are up. There is no reason they can't sign with someone and shoot promos to be released at a later date), and when things do open up again, there is going to be a lot of competition for the ones people want, and WWE will have to pay a lot more to get these guys than they were making when they were released.

For the Tino Sabbattellis of the world there wouldn't be a bidding war for them under normal circumstances, either.

7. I guess McDevitt didn't feel confident making that argument in front of a jury. Also, I think we both know that WWE wants Brock and Ronda at least nominally under contract for the next few years just because they will help with the next round of Fox and USA negotiations.

8. No, I don't have to wait for that to happen, because we all know it's true. Lucha Bros are worth more than Private Party and Blutcher & Blade combined, so if AEW were ever in financial straits, they'd keep them on at the cost of the other four. It's how every promotion ever has operated. ROH early on would rather not bring in four JAPW flippy guys than not pay for Dragon's plane ticket, TNA let numerous interchangable X-Division guys go before they told James Storm they couldn't pay him what he wanted, and WCW released all of the Nitro Girls and most of the Cruiserweights but never even tried to cut Sting (or, if you prefer, there was a reason Rey was kept under contract when most of the other luchadors were let go).

2. If you were right about this, we really shouldn't play it down eitherway, and to me the way you want to put it, it's still fueled by that primal greed.

Listen to this, to me this may be a man that is extremely paranoid, but he's still acting in a somewhat calculated way with complete disregard of other people. Bad decisions for any proper businessman, but he's a carny through and through



4. No they're not, they're taping all three shows on monday and tuesday, but they're doing it every week, everyone has to come back every week. AEW and Impact taped like two months worth of shows, they don't have to come back for a while. That is what makes the difference.
Eitherway, let's say the people locally are ok because they are indeed just driving their cars to work. You still have the wrestlers traveling.

5. Does WWE have them home, or were they smart enough to not go to the tapings? it doesn't redeem them to have two announcers home.

6. Well, they shot themselves on the foot hiring all those people. NOW take care of them. Is WWE ran by a child that wanted a puppy? There are many things that WWE can do to save money, firing people was the last one.
No one knows what is gonna happen next week, let alone in 90 days, there is a BIG chance that promotions won't be able to make signing expenses until 2021.

7. Yeah, next few years, but you're saying that these wrestlers can get hired in a couple months. No worry by the time the next negotiations come.

8. None of those were global pandemics affecting everyone. none of them.

[Big Red Machine]

2. He probably is worried about getting sick. And my whole point is that the man doesn't seem to be very mentally well. I think it's entirely possible that his mindset is "oh my G-d I just lost a whole bunch of money the XFL and now I need to do whatever it takes to ensure that I don't lose WWE, too, because without WWE, I don't have anything."

4. And WWE is taping in bunches, now, too. Doing tapings in way that AEW did is hard on the workers(both wrestling and production), as TNA learned. I don't see much wrong with WWE asking employees to drive in their cars to a building a few times a month. WWE employees should be using the same common sense rules that apply to employees of any other business that is currently open ("if you don't feel well or think you might have been exposed, STAY HOME!" etc.). WWE isn't asking people to fly across the country (and they should be discouraging people from doing so).

5.A. Mox was at the tapings (unless he and Swagger wrestled in a totally different building)
5.B. The Strowman change was about more than that. Firstly, they weren't going to keep the belt on Goldberg either way because Goldberg wasn't going to wrestle much. Secondly, they couldn't deliver advertised match, so they delivered a match with a finish they thought fans would like. "If you need to make a substitution you have the babyface go over" is a very old rule of booking to make the fans happy even though they didn't get to see the advertised match. They're not punishing Roman for staying home. They'll put the belt right back on him at the first big PPV after things open up again.
5.C. When it comes to WWE having a lot more people show up than over promotions, you're forgetting the two following important points:
- A huge chunk of the roster lives in the Orlando area anyway.
- A bunch of them probably wanted to make sure they were able to be there for Mania anyway and just decided not to go home (a bunch of the are living on friends couches because hotel rooms are already all booked up).

I agree that Lawler shouldn't be there, but he is. Hell, I don't think any company should have more than one announcer around (although, again, WWE has a lot more of them withing driving distance). And you're forgetting that WWE DOES have some announcers home (Mauro, Nigel).

6. I agree that WWE is probably more likely to come out of this fine than AEW due to money they have in reserve, but WWE also has expenses that are far greater than AEW's. As Thelone noted, they had OVER TWO HUNDRED wrestlers under contract, and that's just wrestlers. They've also got more production staff, NXT trainers, people on legends deals, etc.

Most other promotions might not be able to pick these people up right now... although AEW absolute could make offers right now if they wanted to. They have the money to do so, but it's not necessarily a smart move to start paying when you don't know how long you'll actually be able to use them for because they might not be able to start for six months. But even if AEW doesn't make any offers right now, that doesn't change the fact that these people will be free agents in a little over 90 days (actually they're all free agents now, but can't appear anywhere until the 90 days are up. There is no reason they can't sign with someone and shoot promos to be released at a later date), and when things do open up again, there is going to be a lot of competition for the ones people want, and WWE will have to pay a lot more to get these guys than they were making when they were released.

For the Tino Sabbattellis of the world there wouldn't be a bidding war for them under normal circumstances, either.

7. I guess McDevitt didn't feel confident making that argument in front of a jury. Also, I think we both know that WWE wants Brock and Ronda at least nominally under contract for the next few years just because they will help with the next round of Fox and USA negotiations.

8. No, I don't have to wait for that to happen, because we all know it's true. Lucha Bros are worth more than Private Party and Blutcher & Blade combined, so if AEW were ever in financial straits, they'd keep them on at the cost of the other four. It's how every promotion ever has operated. ROH early on would rather not bring in four JAPW flippy guys than not pay for Dragon's plane ticket, TNA let numerous interchangable X-Division guys go before they told James Storm they couldn't pay him what he wanted, and WCW released all of the Nitro Girls and most of the Cruiserweights but never even tried to cut Sting (or, if you prefer, there was a reason Rey was kept under contract when most of the other luchadors were let go).

2. If you were right about this, we really shouldn't play it down eitherway, and to me the way you want to put it, it's still fueled by that primal greed.

Listen to this, to me this may be a man that is extremely paranoid, but he's still acting in a somewhat calculated way with complete disregard of other people. Bad decisions for any proper businessman, but he's a carny through and through



4. No they're not, they're taping all three shows on monday and tuesday, but they're doing it every week, everyone has to come back every week. AEW and Impact taped like two months worth of shows, they don't have to come back for a while. That is what makes the difference.
Eitherway, let's say the people locally are ok because they are indeed just driving their cars to work. You still have the wrestlers traveling.

5. Does WWE have them home, or were they smart enough to not go to the tapings? it doesn't redeem them to have two announcers home.

6. Well, they shot themselves on the foot hiring all those people. NOW take care of them. Is WWE ran by a child that wanted a puppy? There are many things that WWE can do to save money, firing people was the last one.
No one knows what is gonna happen next week, let alone in 90 days, there is a BIG chance that promotions won't be able to make signing expenses until 2021.

7. Yeah, next few years, but you're saying that these wrestlers can get hired in a couple months. No worry by the time the next negotiations come.

8. None of those were global pandemics affecting everyone. none of them.

2. I separate "greed" from survival instinct. Greed is a desire for more than you need. Thinking your livelihood is in jeopardy and thus trying to reduce expenses is not greed. And paranoid people often do act in calculated ways.
And I agree that it's yet another sign that Vince is not fit to run the company anymore. I just have some sympathy for him. he's a man who once had his finger right on the pulse completely unraveling after years of slipping. Let me put it this way- and obviously I don't think you're this extreme (and I'm not either), but I think it's just the best metaphor to contrast: Your version of Vince's story would have him tried for murder and executed. Mine would end with him kneeling on the ground, crying over the ashes of everything he has built and then lost. A story of Vince the Criminal vs. the Grand Tragedy of Vince McMahon, felled by his own hubris, then driven mad by his inability to recover from that fall, branching out into scheme after scheme and only making things worse.

4. I wouldn't say "locally" so much as "if you're willing to drive there then it's okay." And Vince shouldn't be letting people fly in (unless he Vince or the Khans have their jets based in private airports I wouldn't have a problem with them flying from one to another.) The point should be people keep out of contact with potentially contaminated strangers. If someone wants to drive from Texas to Florida to work, they're free to do that, so long as they don't say at a hotel and don't stop in a rest stop to get food.
I was under the impression that huge chunk of the crew stayed/got stuck in Florida after Mania. Is that not the case?

5. My point is that there are some people who are being protected. I could make the same argument you're making about Lawler about Schiavone (although at least Schiavone hasn't almost died, but he's still in the high-risk age range).

6. Yes, they did shoot themselves in the foot by hiring so many people, but I think this qualifies as impossible to foresee circumstances. And I think that, at the very least AEW will be able to still sign people (and they have the most incentive to do so because they're still running). As for the others, there are a number of things they could do, such as negotiate deals where the company pays those guys a regular but small(er) amount now, then the contract kicks into full gear when things open up again. But either way, the released wrestlers will still have their WWE payouts from their releases. They'll be fine not getting paid for six months. I managed it for almost two years and they all make a hell of a lot more than I did when I got laid off from by previous job.

7. Vince doesn't want to give them the freedom for Tony Khan or Sinclair Broadcasting (or Dana White or Scott Coker, for that matter) to be have the chance to run up to them and offer a hell of a lot more than Vince was paying them. Sure, he could match it, but he doesn't want to have to do so. There's nothing immoral about that.

8. That's correct, but that's not the point. The point is that there will always be a hierarchy because there are certain people you don't want a well-funded opposition to ever be able to cut a deal with. Don't pretend that Tony Khan doesn't have the money. He does. Sinclair, too, if they decide to let ROH use it.