Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Big Red Machine » May 5th, '19, 14:28

NWK2000 wrote:
May 5th, '19, 14:10
Big Red Machine wrote:
May 5th, '19, 13:30
NWK2000 wrote:
May 5th, '19, 12:05


In watching 1997 Raws, that kind of "anything can happen" booking does have its merits. But the thing about February/March 1997, it built to one of the best double turns in history and Bret's subsequent best heel run. A relatively milquetoast C-PPV doesn't need that kind of build, it just grates.
Russo doesn't get brought in on Creative until after the 2/26/1997 Raw (the one in Germany that Vince apparently hated because he thought the crowd was dead, and blamed Cornette/Pritchard/Ross for convincing him to do Raw from German when he wasn't sure about it), and doesn't become a major force getting ideas on TV until late 97.

I know, but there's a lot of similarities there. Because of Shawn losing his smile, they hot shot the title into Mania, which Russo would do for most of 1999 (see the Hardcore and Intercontinental builds of WMXV) . And the reason why it worked in 1997 is because it set up something that built to the next six months of TV, building up Bret as a heel, and Austin as a babyface. That's why it worked. Swerves that are undone months later are just...nothing
I'll argue that Shawn losing his smile didn't cause them to hotshot. They could have just put the belt on Sid at the PPV and started Austin/Bret up again some other way (and they had already made the decision to put the belt back on Sid before Shawn lost his smile, as that was the impetus for Shawn losing his smile, so Shawn losing his smile didn't add a title change).

But as for your main point, while you might be correct in that that sort of thing is what Russo was trying to recreate, his versions of it were horribly inferior because he never had the patience to actually build things up/never understood the importance of building things up over time, and never had the attention to detail to pull things off intelligently. That's the big failing of Vince Russo. He might come up with a vaguely good idea, but he has pretty much no idea how to execute it in an effective and intelligent manner (especially if said idea is for an actual story rather than a cool thing to do in one segment, a la Austin and the beer truck).


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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by NWK2000 » May 5th, '19, 15:28

Big Red Machine wrote:
May 5th, '19, 14:28
But as for your main point, while you might be correct in that that sort of thing is what Russo was trying to recreate, his versions of it were horribly inferior because he never had the patience to actually build things up/never understood the importance of building things up over time, and never had the attention to detail to pull things off intelligently. That's the big failing of Vince Russo. He might come up with a vaguely good idea, but he has pretty much no idea how to execute it in an effective and intelligent manner (especially if said idea is for an actual story rather than a cool thing to do in one segment, a la Austin and the beer truck).
Right, that's what I mean. He would swerve titles around to the point that no one cared (IC Title for most of 1999) or put guys in top positions nobody cared about (Jarrett in WCW), or, burn programs that had potential into the ground (Awesome and Kidman trouncing Hulk Hogan, without bothering to build up either of the former in 2000). I mean, WWE's execution might be poor at the moment, but I feel like we got to where we needed to go on the build to Mania 35. Russo would've had Kofi, Becky, or Seth lose because "ISSA SWERVE BRO"
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by NWK2000 » May 5th, '19, 15:28

Big Red Machine wrote:
May 5th, '19, 14:28
But as for your main point, while you might be correct in that that sort of thing is what Russo was trying to recreate, his versions of it were horribly inferior because he never had the patience to actually build things up/never understood the importance of building things up over time, and never had the attention to detail to pull things off intelligently. That's the big failing of Vince Russo. He might come up with a vaguely good idea, but he has pretty much no idea how to execute it in an effective and intelligent manner (especially if said idea is for an actual story rather than a cool thing to do in one segment, a la Austin and the beer truck).
Right, that's what I mean. He would swerve titles around to the point that no one cared (IC Title for most of 1999) or put guys in top positions nobody cared about (Jarrett in WCW), or, burn programs that had potential into the ground (Awesome and Kidman trouncing Hulk Hogan, without bothering to build up either of the former in 2000). I mean, WWE's execution might be poor at the moment, but I feel like we got to where we needed to go on the build to Mania 35. Russo would've had Kofi, Becky, or Seth lose because "ISSA SWERVE BRO"
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Bob-O » May 25th, '19, 10:08

I'd be more excited about AEW if Chris Jericho was in shape.

I get a real "Randy The Ram" vibe off him and I think it hurts their image. I'm watching from the sidelines at this point (aware of what's going on but not a weekly viewer of BTE), and he just looks out of place in a bad way. Christopher Daniels doesn't give me that vibe, and I'll admit that Dustin is one of the reasons I'll be watching the show, but Jericho makes me sad. If I'm Tony Kahn I'd be wondering why I spent the money.

Not to take away from WHO Chris Jericho is, I get it, but man... I don't like to look at him. He looks like a washed up ex-wwe guy cashing a check and less like somebody setting out to change the world.

Perception is reality and Chris knows better.
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by cero2k » May 25th, '19, 11:27

Bob-O wrote:
May 25th, '19, 10:08
I'd be more excited about AEW if Chris Jericho was in shape.

I get a real "Randy The Ram" vibe off him and I think it hurts their image. I'm watching from the sidelines at this point (aware of what's going on but not a weekly viewer of BTE), and he just looks out of place in a bad way. Christopher Daniels doesn't give me that vibe, and I'll admit that Dustin is one of the reasons I'll be watching the show, but Jericho makes me sad. If I'm Tony Kahn I'd be wondering why I spent the money.

Not to take away from WHO Chris Jericho is, I get it, but man... I don't like to look at him. He looks like a washed up ex-wwe guy cashing a check and less like somebody setting out to change the world.

Perception is reality and Chris knows better.
he may look out of place when it comes to age, dude is almost 50, he could literally be the father of some of the talent booked in the show, but when it comes to legends of the past, i think he fits right in and he's one of the only dudes that i like seeing there. He's not a WWE-Reject, he's not an ECW original still doing the same thing, to me he doesn't even feel like a dude working for a Saudi paycheck, he's Chris Jericho and every Jericho is different. Does he have a 6-pack gut now? yeah, but i want to believe that part of AEW's 'change the business' idea is to get out of the mindset that every wrestler needs to pass the 'DozerFitnessTest'

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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by KILLdozer » May 25th, '19, 14:29

cero2k wrote:
May 25th, '19, 11:27
Bob-O wrote:
May 25th, '19, 10:08
I'd be more excited about AEW if Chris Jericho was in shape.

I get a real "Randy The Ram" vibe off him and I think it hurts their image. I'm watching from the sidelines at this point (aware of what's going on but not a weekly viewer of BTE), and he just looks out of place in a bad way. Christopher Daniels doesn't give me that vibe, and I'll admit that Dustin is one of the reasons I'll be watching the show, but Jericho makes me sad. If I'm Tony Kahn I'd be wondering why I spent the money.

Not to take away from WHO Chris Jericho is, I get it, but man... I don't like to look at him. He looks like a washed up ex-wwe guy cashing a check and less like somebody setting out to change the world.

Perception is reality and Chris knows better.
he may look out of place when it comes to age, dude is almost 50, he could literally be the father of some of the talent booked in the show, but when it comes to legends of the past, i think he fits right in and he's one of the only dudes that i like seeing there. He's not a WWE-Reject, he's not an ECW original still doing the same thing, to me he doesn't even feel like a dude working for a Saudi paycheck, he's Chris Jericho and every Jericho is different. Does he have a 6-pack gut now? yeah, but i want to believe that part of AEW's 'change the business' idea is to get out of the mindset that every wrestler needs to pass the 'DozerFitnessTest'
Well...Bob-o doesn't like FAT BOYS either it seems...
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Big Red Machine » May 25th, '19, 19:19

Bob-O wrote:
May 25th, '19, 10:08
I'd be more excited about AEW if Chris Jericho was in shape.

I get a real "Randy The Ram" vibe off him and I think it hurts their image. I'm watching from the sidelines at this point (aware of what's going on but not a weekly viewer of BTE), and he just looks out of place in a bad way. Christopher Daniels doesn't give me that vibe, and I'll admit that Dustin is one of the reasons I'll be watching the show, but Jericho makes me sad. If I'm Tony Kahn I'd be wondering why I spent the money.

Not to take away from WHO Chris Jericho is, I get it, but man... I don't like to look at him. He looks like a washed up ex-wwe guy cashing a check and less like somebody setting out to change the world.

Perception is reality and Chris knows better.
Have you seen any of his New Japan matches? This is not the Chris Jericho you are used to. This is a violent, crazed, and dangerous man. The look fits the gimmick.
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Bob-O » May 26th, '19, 09:41

cero2k wrote:
May 25th, '19, 11:27
he may look out of place when it comes to age, dude is almost 50, he could literally be the father of some of the talent booked in the show, but when it comes to legends of the past, i think he fits right in and he's one of the only dudes that i like seeing there. He's not a WWE-Reject, he's not an ECW original still doing the same thing, to me he doesn't even feel like a dude working for a Saudi paycheck, he's Chris Jericho and every Jericho is different. Does he have a 6-pack gut now? yeah, but i want to believe that part of AEW's 'change the business' idea is to get out of the mindset that every wrestler needs to pass the 'DozerFitnessTest'
Big Red Machine wrote:
May 25th, '19, 19:19
Have you seen any of his New Japan matches? This is not the Chris Jericho you are used to. This is a violent, crazed, and dangerous man. The look fits the gimmick.
There's "bulking up" and there's "letting yourself go". Steen always looked ok to me... Big Show, Bray... I've never looked at them and said, "Wow... they look bad." (insert Adam Cole joke here)

There's no question that Jericho has effectively redefined himself, and there's no question he can still go, but walking in the door as High Profile Credibility to an upstart fed that's paying out high dollar looking like you've spent the money on a fat suit to me is unacceptable. My point being, there's nothing wrong with packing on 50lbs, but I find him to be an eyesore in all of Double or Nothing's promotion. He doesn't fit (no pun intended, but you see what I did there?), and he absolutely could if he took care of himself.

I brought up Daniels and Dustin because they're both older than Chris yet still take that aspect of their jobs seriously. Representing the company/looking appealing to new viewers that have NO IDEA Chris was ever in New Japan. I get it, you get it, but those fans won't - and I think they're the most important. Not saying he needs to get shredded, just lose the muffin top... you're a Top Guy in a promotion that kinds of needs you right now... show them the courtesy of looking the part, that's all I'm saying.

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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by NWK2000 » May 26th, '19, 12:11

Big Red Machine wrote:
May 25th, '19, 19:19
Bob-O wrote:
May 25th, '19, 10:08
I'd be more excited about AEW if Chris Jericho was in shape.

I get a real "Randy The Ram" vibe off him and I think it hurts their image. I'm watching from the sidelines at this point (aware of what's going on but not a weekly viewer of BTE), and he just looks out of place in a bad way. Christopher Daniels doesn't give me that vibe, and I'll admit that Dustin is one of the reasons I'll be watching the show, but Jericho makes me sad. If I'm Tony Kahn I'd be wondering why I spent the money.

Not to take away from WHO Chris Jericho is, I get it, but man... I don't like to look at him. He looks like a washed up ex-wwe guy cashing a check and less like somebody setting out to change the world.

Perception is reality and Chris knows better.
Have you seen any of his New Japan matches? This is not the Chris Jericho you are used to. This is a violent, crazed, and dangerous man. The look fits the gimmick.
You need to watch his match against Kenny at Double or Nothing. Dude was just saving himself, and still has "it"
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Bob-O » May 26th, '19, 14:39

NWK2000 wrote:
May 26th, '19, 12:11
You need to watch his match against Kenny at Double or Nothing. Dude was just saving himself, and still has "it"
I did, and it was awesome!

I'm not questioning whether or not dude still has 'it', I'm just saying I'd be more excited... after seeing him in NJPW, after watching him and Kenny last night... if I didn't go "Ugh... who's that other guy in the pic? That's Kenny, those are the Bucks... but who's th- omg that's Jericho, isn't it? It has to be... oh no..."

Nothing to do with whether he belongs or not, he can absolutely still go. But, if I'm the Kahns, I'm wondering why one of our tippy top guys, the one that cements our status, the one we're paying top dollar for, is constantly being defended as a "still"... (STILL has it, can STILL go), for what they're paying him you should be able to take one look at him and already know that. Nobody looks at R-Truth and wonders if he can still go. It's not like he was recovering from surgery or developed a glandular disorder... dude just got fat and doesn't have the frame to carry it.

Given the role he signed up for in the company, that doesn't fly with me and wouldn't take much to trim off if he gave a shit. They need him more than he needs them, and it shows. It's one of the few things I can think of that Vince and Cornette have in common, in that they wouldn't tolerate their guys looking sloppy for the sake of the company's image.
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Post by NWK2000 » May 26th, '19, 23:04

I may be the only one who thinks this, but I find it incredibly hypocritical that people worship Brusier Brody and hate on Brock Lesnar. Brody was "such a rebel" who would stick it to those promoters and fans alike, and Brock is doing the same thing.
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Big Red Machine » May 27th, '19, 00:16

NWK2000 wrote:
May 26th, '19, 23:04
I may be the only one who thinks this, but I find it incredibly hypocritical that people worship Brusier Brody and hate on Brock Lesnar. Brody was "such a rebel" who would stick it to those promoters and fans alike, and Brock is doing the same thing.
The cases are not comparable so I wouldn't technically call it "hypocrisy," but you're not wrong. Brock is just making his money. The problem was WWE putting the belt on him and booking him to have such short matches to the point where he's not an exciting part of the show anymore because you know the match is going to be under ten minutes.

Brody was a nut-job who would ruin matches on a whim.

But don't worry about it too much, as Brody seems to be the only guy from back then who gets flack for refusing to do jobs per Baba's orders, whereas no one seems to have a problem with Hansen and whoever else saying "sorry, I can't do a job because Mr. Baba said 'no jobs.""
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Bob-O » May 27th, '19, 05:09

NWK2000 wrote:
May 26th, '19, 23:04
I may be the only one who thinks this, but I find it incredibly hypocritical that people worship Brusier Brody and hate on Brock Lesnar. Brody was "such a rebel" who would stick it to those promoters and fans alike, and Brock is doing the same thing.
I think people would change their tune about Brock if Brock got murdered. We just want him to be full time, we don't want him dead.
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Post by KILLdozer » May 27th, '19, 06:12

Yeah, Lesnar isn't doing anything but going along with his WWE agreed booking. If anything it's their idea lol.
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by cero2k » May 27th, '19, 09:00

NWK2000 wrote:
May 26th, '19, 23:04
I may be the only one who thinks this, but I find it incredibly hypocritical that people worship Brusier Brody and hate on Brock Lesnar. Brody was "such a rebel" who would stick it to those promoters and fans alike, and Brock is doing the same thing.
i'm just gonna go ahead and speculate that most people who hate on Brock for that have never seen a Brody match and only know of him by documentaries

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Post by KILLdozer » May 27th, '19, 13:12

To go off on another one...

....Sasha Banks (Wherever she is...), Should be running the division. To me she has always been the best in ring and overall of the famous four, not even let alone others around here. Love Asuka and Kairi Sane, but...you know. They've got something holding them back. Alexa Bliss (Sorry, B(Liss) R(ules) M(e),) , just isn't anywhere near her level.

Tamina and Nia Jax are good foils, but not even much more. Ruby Riott is very very good, and I actually don't think we've ever had a big debate about where she belongs among the current competion, and I'm unfamiliar with how she could work as a face. So far...I haven't seen her given much ground to work with. Naomi is slightly above shit and garbage to me, falling just in the "good" category. Carmella COULD be a very good opponent for Sasha as heel champion actually.

I'd even love to see Sasha V Beth Phoenix, though I'm not sure who I'd stick in which role.
Natalya could provide very great completion against her, but they've long given up on her. Charlotte was a good nemesis but I obviously always felt Sasha Banks was better.
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Big Red Machine » May 27th, '19, 16:04

KILLdozer wrote:
May 27th, '19, 13:12
To go off on another one...

....Sasha Banks (Wherever she is...), Should be running the division. To me she has always been the best in ring and overall of the famous four, not even let alone others around here. Love Asuka and Kairi Sane, but...you know. They've got something holding them back. Alexa Bliss (Sorry, B(Liss) R(ules) M(e),) , just isn't anywhere near her level.

Tamina and Nia Jax are good foils, but not even much more. Ruby Riott is very very good, and I actually don't think we've ever had a big debate about where she belongs among the current competion, and I'm unfamiliar with how she could work as a face. So far...I haven't seen her given much ground to work with. Naomi is slightly above shit and garbage to me, falling just in the "good" category. Carmella COULD be a very good opponent for Sasha as heel champion actually.

I'd even love to see Sasha V Beth Phoenix, though I'm not sure who I'd stick in which role.
Natalya could provide very great completion against her, but they've long given up on her. Charlotte was a good nemesis but I obviously always felt Sasha Banks was better.


This is not a particularly unpopular opinion.

As for Ruby Riott as a babyface, she's utterly fantastic.
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Post by Bob-O » May 28th, '19, 10:31

KILLdozer wrote:
May 27th, '19, 13:12
Love Asuka and Kairi Sane, but...you know. They've got something holding them back.
I remember talking about this way back when Asuka got called up and Kairi started gaining traction in NXT. There's not enough room for two Asian women in a Vince McMahon run company. We called it back then, if Kairi even got called up she'd be paired with Asuke... there's no hope for Io as long as the racist old man is around.
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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by KILLdozer » May 28th, '19, 13:02

Bob-O wrote:
May 28th, '19, 10:31
KILLdozer wrote:
May 27th, '19, 13:12
Love Asuka and Kairi Sane, but...you know. They've got something holding them back.
I remember talking about this way back when Asuka got called up and Kairi started gaining traction in NXT. There's not enough room for two Asian women in a Vince McMahon run company. We called it back then, if Kairi even got called up she'd be paired with Asuke... there's no hope for Io as long as the racist old man is around.
Not even anything to do with that so much as they don't speak perfect fluent English...


Well then....

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Re: Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

Post by Bob-O » May 28th, '19, 13:24

KILLdozer wrote:
May 28th, '19, 13:02
Not even anything to do with that so much as they don't speak perfect fluent English...
Neither do Southerners according to Vince, but he loosened up for AJ.

I was shocked Nakamura saw some spotlight, regardless of resume, I figured they would have sent him the way of Itami based on their principals.
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