How Women Took Over The Independent Wrestling Scene.
By Cero

Women's wrestling. Few years ago, you would be accostumed that the best female wrestlers in america could be always found in WWF/E. NWA rarely promoted their Women's title, and neither of WCW's women's titles lasted more than 1 year, and let's not even talk about women in ECW. At the death of the territories, only WWF kinda promoted women's wrestling with the exception of the LPWA, who you may not even know of.

Then WCW died, ECW died. The rise of the independent scene began. Some people here and there thought it a good idea to make some all women promotions here and there. Young female wrestlers were not obliged to travel to Mexico or Japan to get experience anymore. Regardless, male wrestling still overshadows their counterpart's wrestling. Indy promotions are coming, headlined by men. TNA/NWA doesn't have a women's division yet. WWE still has the best women's wrestling out there.

Fast forward almost 10 yrs. If you ask yourself, where the best male wrestlers in the world are, they're all over the place. There is not a single place where you can say, this is where the wrestling is at. Not TNA, not ROH, and certanly, not WWE. There is not a single male wrestler that is dominating the independent scene like Bryan Danielson or CM Punk did during their run. Now, on the side of the coin, let's talk women's wrestling. Where can i find the best women's wrestling or wrestlers?? easy, the indies. which one exactly?? any that will feature women's wrestling, plain and simple.

You have your Juggernauts SHIMMER and WSU, who pretty much started this revolution. There will never be a show where there won't be a blockbuster match here. While ROH is struggling with Boiling Point's booking, WSU just had the first ever casket match between Jessicka Havok and Mercedes Martinez, and SHIMMER closed their last show with Knight vs Melissa.

Furthermore, all male promotions have found that pushing and promoting women's wrestling is a good way to go.
Promotions like Anarchy Championship Wrestling or Absolute Intense Wrestling that once started out as all male promotions, have now given more focus on promoting their women's division.

ACW, while still having amazing male talent, are now mostly recognize by their female talent and female themed shows. The Queen of Queen tournament is currently one of the most talked about all women tournaments in the country. Prom Night, while not necessarily an all women show, inclines on featuring their girls. Rising names like Athena or Rachel Summerlyn are far more recognizable than ACH or Davey Vega.

One of AIW's flagship show has become 'Girl's Night Out'. AIW's roster is headlined by women like the Midwest Militia, Mia Kim, and Mickie Knuckles.

Promotions like NCW or PWA created their own Women's Division that have separate shows from the male roster, since the amount of talent is more than enough to put a show together. Even CHIKARA found the power in booking femaled themed shows with JoshiMania and the inclusion of female trios in their King of Trios Tournament.

Lastly, look at the amount of new promotions that have come out in the last years and compare it to new all male promotions. Ok, they're probably similar numbers, but now look at the rosters and tell me which one are you most interested in watching.

But enough of examples. Why did this happen?? I have one single hypothesis. Ignore these women enough, and they'll overrun the business. I don't think that tougher girls are coming out, I don't think that better wrestlers are coming out, but i truly believe that women's wrestling doesn't suffer from the same things as male wrestling. WWE or TNA don't go around the indies grabbing all the women's wrestlers they find, they don't care for non-cookie cutter girls (unless you're amazing and have something else there) and they're not interested in large women's divisions (considering half of these are just valets that can wrestle a bit). So at the end, not a lot of chicks go to the mainstream leagues, and thus, we're now overrun by amazing women talent in the independents. It's not bad thing, on the contraire, women's wrestling has taken the main event, and it's about damn time this happened. There's just so much space for non-trained models in the business, when real female wrestlers take center stage.

P.S. I'm honestly not an expert in women's wrestling and may have missed promotions out there, plus I decided not mention other countries' women's wrestling like the joshis, since some have always had a big spot in their culture's wrestling. I just wanted to tackle US women's wrestling at this point.

Do you think Women's wrestling has taken over the indies ?? Why ??

cero2k wrote:There is not a single male wrestler that is dominating the independent scene like Bryan Danielson or CM Punk did during their run.

Kevin Steen.

And about a year and a half or two years ago it was Davey Richards.

I've got to disagree with you here. Women's wrestling is finally getting more attention, but to say that it is taking over the indies? That is one hell of a big stretch. Most people will not dispute that the top indies for the past few years have been ROH, DGUSA, and PWG. Women have been nowhere close to prominent in those three promotions. CVE and especially Candace LeRae have gotten a following in PWG, but most of that (especially with Candace) comes from her interactions with men and competing against men. DGUSA features no women at all. The closest thing they have had was Daizee Haze being a dancer for BxB Hulk's entrance back on one of the first PPVs. ROH, for all of it's patting itself on the back, has not had a women who was both her own character and in some way important since Jimmy Jacobs released "Ballad of Lacey" in late 2005. Lacey was always a component of Jimmy's character, Daizee a component of Delirious' (and before that Sara Del Rey's) and Sara Del Rey was a component of the various evolution of Sweet N' Sour Inc/the Hagadorn faction/the Kings of Wrestling.

I'm not disputing the success of the various Girl's Night Out type shows, especially for ACW and AIW (although it hasn't been everywhere- it failed for JAPW), but these thing are really only getting so much attention for two reasons: Because they are a relatively new concept, and because of the downfall of the Knockout's division.

The women in CHIKARA have more been competing against guys than anything else, and the JoshiMania shows really were not very good. WSU has been good, but the only reason it got attention in the first place was Martinez vs. Orsini. If that match hadn't put it on the map, no one would care about WSU. SHIMMER usually has good main events, but has always suffered from weak undercards and has not been booked particularly well for the last few years.

To say that women's wrestling has taken over the indies is huge stretch. Certain women have gotten a lot more over than they ever were before (Death Rey, Martiniez, Orisini), and women's wrestling has become a good draw in some promotions, but in most companies (and especially the bigger ones) it is almost nowhere to be seen, and certainly not in important places on the card.

Big Red Machine wrote:Kevin Steen.

And about a year and a half or two years ago it was Davey Richards.

I'm going to disagree, other than PWG and ROH (without considering Canada) I have no idea what other promotion consider Steen in the roster. Same with Davey in the US. they may make appearances here and there, but i'm talking roster. The only two people that could challenge this right now, IMO are Jimmy Jacobs and El Generico, those guys I do see them in most indy rosters around the country. however, look at sara del rey, she's everywhere.

Big Red Machine wrote:I've got to disagree with you here. Women's wrestling is finally getting more attention, but to say that it is taking over the indies? That is one hell of a big stretch. Most people will not dispute that the top indies for the past few years have been ROH, DGUSA, and PWG. Women have been nowhere close to prominent in those three promotions. CVE and especially Candace LeRae have gotten a following in PWG, but most of that (especially with Candace) comes from her interactions with men and competing against men. DGUSA features no women at all. The closest thing they have had was Daizee Haze being a dancer for BxB Hulk's entrance back on one of the first PPVs. ROH, for all of it's patting itself on the back, has not had a women who was both her own character and in some way important since Jimmy Jacobs released "Ballad of Lacey" in late 2005. Lacey was always a component of Jimmy's character, Daizee a component of Delirious' (and before that Sara Del Rey's) and Sara Del Rey was a component of the various evolution of Sweet N' Sour Inc/the Hagadorn faction/the Kings of Wrestling.

I'm not necessarily saying that women are prominent in all indy promotions now, the ones that are already established like the ones you say haven't really tried getting into that business, while I will argue that ROH technically did back up the creation of SHIMMER as it's all female version, and so they had a option to not book women as much. I'm also saying this is barely starting to show, more and more promotions today are starting to feature women, regardless if they fight man or women, I would actually say that having girls like Summerlyn take on Scott Summers and win the title is far more promoting women's wrestling than featuring any girl on girl match, these chicks are getting male title shots, and some of them are winning those titles. Promotion's main titles are not gender bound anymore.

Big Red Machine wrote: WSU has been good, but the only reason it got attention in the first place was Martinez vs. Orsini. If that match hadn't put it on the map, no one would care about WSU. SHIMMER usually has good main events, but has always suffered from weak undercards and has not been booked particularly well for the last few years.

couldn't you say the same thing about ROH too?? the only reason it got attention in the first place was Dragon vs Low Ki vs Daniels, I mean everything starts off somewhere, it's completely understandable that WSU didn't work since day one, but it grew (Except like promotions from SHINE who started out better than ROH). And you say SHIMMER has a weak undercard, it all depends on what you're looking for, I'd say ROH has had the same problem too for many years with the excess of 4-corner survival matches and who the hell wants to see Hagadorn vs Alex Payne??

Big Red Machine wrote: To say that women's wrestling has taken over the indies is huge stretch. Certain women have gotten a lot more over than they ever were before (Death Rey, Martiniez, Orisini), and women's wrestling has become a good draw in some promotions, but in most companies (and especially the bigger ones) it is almost nowhere to be seen, and certainly not in important places on the card.

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to say it has already taken over may be an exaggeration, but they're right up there. everything that the male indy had, women are getting into. Queen of Deathmatch tourny is a big example. If you open beyond the current mainstream indies (if that makes sense) you'll notice that more and more recognizable faces are of women and not men. I hear a lot more people talking about main events like Martinez vs Havok, Hatred vs Del Rey, Jazz vs del Rey, Yim vs Kay, than Taylor vs Gargano, or Kingston vs Steen, or whatever the main event was for tremendous III

cero2k wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote:Kevin Steen.

And about a year and a half or two years ago it was Davey Richards.

I'm going to disagree, other than PWG and ROH (without considering Canada) I have no idea what other promotion consider Steen in the roster. Same with Davey in the US. they may make appearances here and there, but i'm talking roster. The only two people that could challenge this right now, IMO are Jimmy Jacobs and El Generico, those guys I do see them in most indy rosters around the country. however, look at sara del rey, she's everywhere.

Off the top of my head? I know that Steen is big in many of the Eastern Canadian indies, and that he is also the champ in 2CW. While Steen ins't doing as much indy travelling as some have, Steen is at the top in pretty much all of the major indies (that will let him in, anyway. He doesn't want to work for Evolve or DGUSA, and he has heat with Quack for saying the f-word during a CHIKARA show at one point back in 2005).

Jimmy and Generico (and Cabana, too), while awesome wrestlers who wrestle everywhere, are rarely ever on top of any promotion. If you ask a fan of indy wrestling who the top indy wrestler in the world is right now, almost all of them will tell you that it's Kevin Steen (maybe you'll get a few votes for Davey or Gargano).

Sara is everywhere, but how often does she wrestle? Certainly not every show, like a core member of the roster would. And if you don't thin that Steen is on that level of major popularity and stardom in indy wrestling that Punk or Dragon was, saying that SDR is? That's ridiculous.

cero2k wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote:I've got to disagree with you here. Women's wrestling is finally getting more attention, but to say that it is taking over the indies? That is one hell of a big stretch. Most people will not dispute that the top indies for the past few years have been ROH, DGUSA, and PWG. Women have been nowhere close to prominent in those three promotions. CVE and especially Candace LeRae have gotten a following in PWG, but most of that (especially with Candace) comes from her interactions with men and competing against men. DGUSA features no women at all. The closest thing they have had was Daizee Haze being a dancer for BxB Hulk's entrance back on one of the first PPVs. ROH, for all of it's patting itself on the back, has not had a women who was both her own character and in some way important since Jimmy Jacobs released "Ballad of Lacey" in late 2005. Lacey was always a component of Jimmy's character, Daizee a component of Delirious' (and before that Sara Del Rey's) and Sara Del Rey was a component of the various evolution of Sweet N' Sour Inc/the Hagadorn faction/the Kings of Wrestling.

I'm not necessarily saying that women are prominent in all indy promotions now, the ones that are already established like the ones you say haven't really tried getting into that business, while I will argue that ROH technically did back up the creation of SHIMMER as it's all female version, and so they had a option to not book women as much. I'm also saying this is barely starting to show, more and more promotions today are starting to feature women, regardless if they fight man or women, I would actually say that having girls like Summerlyn take on Scott Summers and win the title is far more promoting women's wrestling than featuring any girl on girl match, these chicks are getting male title shots, and some of them are winning those titles. Promotion's main titles are not gender bound anymore.

Women and men wrestling seriously (and even winning titles) on the indies is not a new thing. Jen Blake, LuFisto, Melissa, and MsChif have been doing it for years. Something like Summerlyn winning the title helps, but I don't think it helps people ge excited for women's wrestling as a whole the way that a match like Martinez vs. Orsini or Death Rey vs. Hamada did.

cero2k wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote: WSU has been good, but the only reason it got attention in the first place was Martinez vs. Orsini. If that match hadn't put it on the map, no one would care about WSU. SHIMMER usually has good main events, but has always suffered from weak undercards and has not been booked particularly well for the last few years.

couldn't you say the same thing about ROH too?? the only reason it got attention in the first place was Dragon vs Low Ki vs Daniels, I mean everything starts off somewhere, it's completely understandable that WSU didn't work since day one, but it grew (Except like promotions from SHINE who started out better than ROH). And you say SHIMMER has a weak undercard, it all depends on what you're looking for, I'd say ROH has had the same problem too for many years with the excess of 4-corner survival matches and who the hell wants to see Hagadorn vs Alex Payne??

Could you say the same thing about ROH? Mostly. I don't want to use the word "lucky" because Gabe knew what he was doing when he picked Dragon, Ki, & Daniels as the guys he wanted to build the promotion around (he didn't just pick indy stars, he wanted those three guys in particular), and he knew that it would get attention if he put them on in the main event instead of Eddie Guerrero, but ROH would not have gotten as much attention if that match wasn't the main event of the first show. What ROH did that WSU didn't, though, was follow up on it. Dragon vs. Ki, Ki vs. AJ, Ki vs. Red, the 4 Way Iron Man match, Briscoe vs. Briscoe, Shane vs. London, Ki vs. Joe... Each successive show until about November had a match that people were touting as potential MOTY. WSU hasn't done that... and really hasn't even gotten buzz since Orsini vs. Martinez, which is surprising when you consider some of the things that they have tried, like the War Games match and that crazy ending, or bringing in Melina. They got a bit more buzz after Martinez vs. Havok, but it didn't even carry over until the next PPV.

As for the weak undercard, most of the ROh undercard matches at least felt like they had star power, and it was understood that the random Four Corner Survivals and Six Man Mayhems were just filler or crowd pleasing spotfests, and going back to late 2002, ROH undercards had big names in indy wrestling: Homicide, CM Punk, The Briscoes, Amazing Red, Colt Cabana, Chad Collyer, BJ Whitmer, Steve Corino, Justin Credible, CW Anderson, Dan Maff, the Backseat Boys... and by the time that those guys either left or became main eventers, Gabe had already managed to create new stars like Gen Next, Nigel, Jay Lethal, and Jimmy Rave. When AJ and Daniels came back from 05-06 (07 in Daniels' case), they spent most of their time on the midcard.
With SHIMMER, it never feels like anyone gains more starpower. Since the beginning, who has really moved up the card at all (aside from the Ninjas)? Even in ROH right now, it is clear that Cole & O'Reilly are on their way up, Mondo is (no matter no much people don't like him), and Elgin was, but ROH seems to squandered that a bit. SHIMMER undercard matches all feel the same because they don't get enough time to stand out.

cero2k wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote: To say that women's wrestling has taken over the indies is huge stretch. Certain women have gotten a lot more over than they ever were before (Death Rey, Martiniez, Orisini), and women's wrestling has become a good draw in some promotions, but in most companies (and especially the bigger ones) it is almost nowhere to be seen, and certainly not in important places on the card.

to say it has already taken over may be an exaggeration, but they're right up there. everything that the male indy had, women are getting into. Queen of Deathmatch tourny is a big example. If you open beyond the current mainstream indies (if that makes sense) you'll notice that more and more recognizable faces are of women and not men. I hear a lot more people talking about main events like Martinez vs Havok, Hatred vs Del Rey, Jazz vs del Rey, Yim vs Kay, than Taylor vs Gargano, or Kingston vs Steen, or whatever the main event was for tremendous III

I will agree that women's wrestling is moving up the card, but I think that is more because people have figured out how best to use it for their audiences. When it comes to women's wrestling, you have to be careful. There are a lot of people out there who don't want to see too much of it, so you can't necessarily fill your card with it, and both the people who love it and those who don't want to see too much of it will sh*t all over it if it is bad (whether it is because the match is sloppy or if you don't give it enough time). You have to use great wrestlers and you have to give them time, but you can't fill the card up with it, either. Certain promotions (ACW and AIW being the best examples of it) have figured out the right balance. They have proven to their fans that their women's wrestling is good enough that they can justify putting it in the main event.
As for QOTDM: That isn't new at all. Ian tried it, and it went over only slightly better than the tag team version of KOTDM.

As for women being more recognizable than the men, I think the major reason for that is that you are seeing the mainstream indies bring in a lot less new talent. DGUSA uses their top American guys (Sami Calihan, Gargano, Chuck Taylor, Jon Davis, Riccochet), and their DGUSA guys, PWG has their local undercard guys who don't change much, then they have their established indy names. ROH has been bringing in some unknowns lately, and Evolve cards tend to be full of them, but other than that, the only mainstream indy that uses lesser-known wrestlers very often is CHIKARA. FIP and JAPW have both fallen from semi-mainstream indy notability, which has also eliminated places for lesser-known male wrestlers to have the chance of getting mainstream indy exposure. With women, there are less female indy wrestlers than their are male wrestlers, so the better ones get booked a lot more often and have more of a chance of being discovered by a SHIMMER, WSU, CHIKARA, ACW or AIW.

as someone who barely started watching indy wrestling this year, i kinda agree with you that there are a lot of familiar faces in many promotions, and most of them are women. but unfortunately, they haven't conquered the promotions that count like roh, chikara, pwg, or even czw