OPENING SEGMENT- good, I guess
Miz & Maryse come out and Miz gives a fake retirement speech, instead declaring that he is merely “retired from facing Daniel Bryan again.” He says that he is “the hardest puncher in the WWE” and that last night proves that one Miz punch is worth more than one hundred Daniel Bryan punches.
Bryan came out and called Miz a coward repeatedly. Miz had Maryse stand in front of him to be a human shield. Miz insisted that “it won’t say coward in the record books,” which I thought was a great heel line. Bryan accused Miz of being “a wanna-be Hollywood star, cosplaying as a professional wrestler.”
Maryse cut a promo on Bryan saying he should retire again and change his name to Daniel Bella. This brought Brie out. Maryse ran away from her so she got some shots in on MIz instead, with Bryan finally clotheslining Miz out of the ring. Bryan the announced that Paige just told that there would be a mixed tag at Hell in a Cell.
This… seems rushed, IMO. Don’t get me wrong: It’s a logical place to go coming out of the PPV, but immediately just rushing the announcement is a bad idea for two reasons. First this one of WWE’s weaknesses, which is that once they announce a match their approach tends to shift from building to it to just hammering the same nail into the ground over and over again, which, because of their announcing style, just gets annoying and lessens my desire to see the match.
The second reason is that I think they’re skipping over a beneficial step in the story, which is doing a rematch on Smackdown (next week would have been best) where Brie is in Bryan’s corner this time, and she and Maryse both get heavily involved, leading to a double-DQ. Something that actually makes me want to see Brie get her hands on Maryse rather than just act as a neutralizing factor. This is doubly true for this particular month, because while one possible way to neutralize Maryse is to have Brie in the match to deal with her, another would be to stick the match in some sort of enclosed structure where she can’t get involved… like, say, the PPV’s eponymous Hell in a Cell. Obviously from a non-kayfabe POV they don’t want to risk Bryan’s long-term health by sticking him in a Hell in a Cell match, but I think it would be best to then build this story along a path that naturally peels away from Hell in a Cell rather than having it just pick a different (but equally kayfabe valid) direction at a rather sharp fork in the road simply because the authority figure chose to do it this way and not that way.

MIZ & MARYSE & PAIGE BACKSTAGE- didn’t like it. This segment was solely designed to let the non-wrestler authority figure get one over on the heels. That’s completely counterproductive.

RANDY ORTON vs. JEFF HARDY- 5/10
They did the big heat angle over a month ago, but only now did Paige get around to booking a match? Get your act together, Paige!
Randy worked over Jeff’s back and it was all well and good, but then he started with the ear stuff again, which is just too much for me. It doesn’t make me want to see Jeff get revenge on Orton. It makes me never want to see these two wrestle again because I don’t ever want to see that again.
Soon after this Jeff stomped on Orton’s nuts and got himself DQed, which might have been a good finish if they hadn’t just done DQs in two big matches at SummerSlam.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- fine
They kept fighting after the match and even brawled into the crowd but no one came out to break it up. Remember two nights ago at SummerSlam when AJ did the same thing to Joe and a million people spilled out of the back to break them up? And that was when they weren’t surrounded by a bunch of important equipment that is essential to WWE’s production of their live TV show.
Most of the brawl was Jeff beating Orton up, ending with a Swanton Bomb off of a couple of stacked-up cases, putting Orton through a table.

RENEE YOUNG INTERVIEWS SHEAMUS & CESARO- They’re challenging the winners of tonight’s tag team title match. Gallows & Anderson showed up and did goofy comedy to tell us that they, too, want a title shot. Renee Young looked completely disgusted by Gallows & Anderson mocking the kick-off show panels. Sheamus & Cesaro challenged Gallows & Anderson to a match next week

IICONICS PROMO- annoying, in the wrong way. I don’t want to see someone beat them. I just want to see them off my TV as soon as possible.

NAOMI vs. PEYTON ROYCE (w/Billie Kay)- 4/10
Tom Phillips told us that “Naomi is looking to stick up for her friends” in tonight’s match against Peyton Royce. What? Where is this coming from? Have either of these two (or Billie Kay, while we’re at it) even been on TV recently, never mind interacting with each other?
Tom Phillips then explained the backstory to this, and it immediately made me wish he hadn’t. After Becky attacked Charlotte last night, The IIconics apparently tweeted that they are now the only remaining pair of best friends in the WWE, so Naomi took it upon herself to stand up for Becky and Charlotte’s friendship by beating Peyton in a singles match tonight. Where start with this?
1. This whole idea is idiotic. Who gives a sh*t who are best friends and who aren’t? And doubly so when it’s clearly the ramblings of some stupid heels.
2. Their statement is just so clearly wrong on so many levels that Naomi looks like such a baby for taking offense to it. The only best friends left in WWE? New Day? The Usos? Shield? Owens & Zayn? Bo & Axel? Gallows & Anderson? Riott Squad? Sasha & Bayley? Ronda & Nattie? Ronda & the other Horsewomen? But even if we limit it to just females on Smackdown they’re still not even right, as there are still Sonya & Mandy, who, being heels, make a lot more sense as the sort of people who would take offense at what is clearly such stupid bullsh*t than a babyface would, so…
3. Those two getting angry about it and the result being a tag team match where the best friends must work together would at least make some sliver of sense as a way to resolve this conflict. Naomi representing two other women to face just Peyton in a singles match is even more ridiculous.
4. Who the f*ck is Naomi to determine whether or not Charlotte and Becky are still best friends? That seems like it’s up to Charlotte and Becky to decide, although in reality…
5. How the f*ck can they possibly be best friends after this? Charlotte beat Becky clean and Becky responded by assaulting her. Do you remember Marty Jannetty showing up on Raw the week after Shawn threw him through the Barber Shop window to tell everyone that he and Shawn were still going to be friends? No? Me neither. Because it didn’t happen because it would have been f*cking stupid. So Naomi insisting that not only is there even a possibility that these two are still best friends- never mind one worth challenging someone to a fight over- makes Naomi look like an idiot.
The match itself was… fine. Peyton won.

NEW DAY BACKSTAGE- They kill the seriousness of Big E.’s injury by having him eat ribs and they’re all making jokes about that. They then cut a promo saying they would win the titles because they were in Brooklyn. Um… you failed to win the titles in Brooklyn two nights ago.

BECKY LYNCH PROMO- An EXCELLENT heel promo. She turned on Charlotte for the obvious reasons, and then turned on the fans for not starting a “Give Becky a chance” hashtag and not boycotting SummerSlam when Charlotte got added to the match, and for cheering when Charlotte won the belt.
Charlotte then came out and attacked Becky and they had a great brawl. The only problem with this was having the referees all just stand there and waive their arms impotently, as if yelling “STOP!” would work the fifty-third time even though it had failed the first fifty-two, just so Paige could bring all of the women out to do the pull-apart. If you’re going to do that, either have the refs get bumped or have the wrestlers come out right afterwards so the refs don’t look like total morons.
Speaking of morons, I bet Naomi sure feels like one right now, huh. I laughed my ass off when Charlotte pie-faced Naomi and then dived onto Becky. Actually, one other flaw: someone needs to teach these babyfaces how to hold someone back, because their hold on Charlotte looked pathetically loose the entire time.

ZELINA VEGA & ANDRADE “CIEN” ALMAS PROMO- good.
Notably, Almas spoke in English, and did so rather well, which is a far cry from the last time he did so.

MIXED TAG TEAM MATCH: Rusev & Lana vs. Andrade “Cien” Almas & Zelina Vega- 4/10
The match was fine, but the finish- English stopping Almas from using a chair, thus distracting him and allowing Rusev to beat him- was very frustrating. After months of building to a break-up, we’re now right back at square one with English’s interference helping Rusev & Lana. I would normally yell at WWE to “either take a sh*t or get off the pot,” but if this is, in fact, them getting off the pot, then it still bears remembering that even if you’re not currently holding up the line for no reason, the fact that you were doing so before still has people annoyed at you.

SHINSUKE NAKAMURA PROMO- He ended his promo by saying “Welcome to the United States of Naka-merica.” That should tell you all you need to know about not just how bad this was, but also how little hope I have for the future of Nakamura’s reign.

RENEE YOUNG INTERVIEWS AJ STYLES- Renee has randomly decided to conduct this interview right on the edge of the stage, rather than a more normal place like in the ring, at the backstage interview area, or in front of AJ’s locker room. ANGLE ALERT!
AJ threatened to “rip Joe’s heart out” if Joe ever mentioned his family again, and was then immediately attacked from behind by Joe, who proceeded to say the same sort of stuff about/to AJ’s family that he has said for the past few weeks. This felt like they were just spinning their wheels.

PAIGE & CARMELLA IN PAIGE’S OFFICE- meh
We started off with Paige talking to a security guy and a referee. She ordered the referee to ensure that AJ gets full medical attention. 1) Shouldn’t that already be standard operating procedure? 2) Shouldn’t she be telling a doctor or a trainer this, not a referee?
They left, and then Carmella showed up. Paige made fun of her for losing her title, to which Carmella responded by telling Paige not to “title-shame” her. This made Carmella look like an idiot and Paige look like an asshole.
Carmella made the reasonable demand that her rematch be one-on-one. R-Truth then showed up to do his dumb comedy where he thinks he needs to pin Carmella to get a shot at some other title. At least they didn’t have Paige play along with this stupid sh*t, which I was honestly worried they would.
Once the clown was gone, we got back to our serious segment and Paige said Carmella would get her one-on-one rematch next week. Then they did more comedy with Truth, but this time off-screen.

NO DISQUALIFICATIONS MATCH FOR THE WWE SMACKDOWN TAG TEAM TITLES: The Bludgeon Brothers(c) vs. The New Day- 7.5/10
New Day have a big no disqualifications tag team championship match against two big, scary monsters who just two days ago hit their pal Big E. in the ribs with gigantic hammers… so of course they’re doing their usual goofball routine on the way down to the ring. Thankfully Big E. was at least selling. In fact, he was selling so much that he went right to the back after doing his announcement shtick… but of course the cameras didn’t ocus on it because there were pancake shenanigans to be seen. As the ring announcer was telling us that this was a no DQs match for the tag titles, they cut to some fans dancing in the crowd like this was all fun and games and not a serious situation.
New Day won the belts in a GREAT no DQs match, full of weapons and carnage. That being said…

They did a sh*t finish on PPV only to give us a gimmick match and the title change on free TV a few days later? That’s f*cking Vince Russo TNA sh*t right there! If you wanted to switch the belts, you should have done it on the PPV. If you didn’t want to do the change in a match that you didn’t think would get enough time to deliver, then you shouldn’t have booked the Raw tag title match on the show at all and given the SD match the time from that match as well.
And if you were dead-set on doing the change in a no DQs match and thus felt you had to do the DQ at the PPV, then build it up and do the no DQs match title change at the next PPV. Use the time you have to make it all MEAN SOMETHING. They hit Big E in the ribs with those mallets? Well then really get those mallets over by having Big E.’s ribs be broken, and this way, when the big match comes, they have to use Kofi and Xavier, meaning they are stuck facing the big rough powerhouses of the Bludgeon Brothers with their two smallest members.
Yeah, okay, Erick Rowan got injured at the PPV and will need surgery, but doesn’t it make more sense to let him heal up for a month before doing a match where he drops the belts, then having him get the surgery rather than having him wrestle on just one day’s rest to drop the titles?

I guess I’d have to say this was a good episode of Smackdown overall, but it was really more a situation where the good stuff (Becky’s promo & brawl with Charlotte, the tag title match) was very good while the bad stuff was really just either “meh” or pointless. Despite some newness (mostly really in the women’s main event scene and in Orton vs. Hardy moving forward), they do still feel trapped in the same wheel-spinning cycle they were before the PPV, with stories repeating themselves week after week. Hopefully that will change soon, as the Bludgeon Brothers will be out of the tag title picture for a while, Nakamura moves on to a new opponent, Orton vs. Hardy heats up, Becky’s heel turn shakes up the women’s division, and Maryse and Brie being reintroduced as full-time (at least for TV) characters changes up the Miz-Bryan feud a bit.
Oh. Also, they kept calling this a “special edition of Smackdown Live” but never once explained what was so special about it. That bothered the hell out of me.


STUPID ANNOUNCER QUOTES:
1. Byron Saxton insisted to us that “Brie has been by Daniels’ side through this whole thing.”
Really, Saxton? Then why didn’t I see her at ringside for the match at SummerSlam? We know she was in the building, so where was she? Nikki couldn’t hold the baby for one match? Or, at worst, just do what Miz & Maryse did and bring the baby to ringside in a stroller.

2. Corey Graves said several times that AJ Styles won his match against Samoa Joe at SummerSlam. I was pretty sure it was either a double count-out or AJ getting DQed. I mean… how could it possibly not have been?

I'm glad you and I see eye to eye on Becky. There's a ton of backlash online over the fact that she's a heel based on how the fans reacted to the turn. But....where were these vocal Becky supporters before she turned? I think Charlotte's become John Cena, in that she wins a lot and anyone who opposes her gets cheered, which is dumb all by itself.

I've seen the same thoughts on that reaaction...but it was a strange pop where they were openly admitting they absolutely that moment in of itself.

I heard somewhere that the New Day/Bludgeon Brothers match happened because Rowan got injured at Summerslam.

The new idiots are champions...sure lol.

NWK2000 wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 15:44 I'm glad you and I see eye to eye on Becky. There's a ton of backlash online over the fact that she's a heel based on how the fans reacted to the turn. But....where were these vocal Becky supporters before she turned? I think Charlotte's become John Cena, in that she wins a lot and anyone who opposes her gets cheered, which is dumb all by itself.

Becky always gets big pops, she is easily the fan favorite of Smackdown now that Asuka has been rendered irrelevant, and even before that, she's always been the 'sweetheart'. I think the backlash is based on the months of storyline building Becky as this big babyface finally getting her shot and then for the sake of nothing, just turning her heel, that's some Russo shit right there. How does WWE expect the fans to get behind the idea that she is a heel if we've been wanting her crowning for months and then out of nowhere Charlotte comes in and takes the title from her?

I see it as they're about to become Reigns and Bryan, Charlotte getting the push because she's Vince's golden girl, while the crowd wants Becky to be the champ.

KILLdozer wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 20:50 The new idiots are champions...sure lol.

nothing ever changes

cero2k wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 20:52

KILLdozer wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 20:50 The new idiots are champions...sure lol.

nothing ever changes

No, obviously not. I'm sick and tired of them giving pancakes such a bad name.

cero2k wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 20:51

NWK2000 wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 15:44 I'm glad you and I see eye to eye on Becky. There's a ton of backlash online over the fact that she's a heel based on how the fans reacted to the turn. But....where were these vocal Becky supporters before she turned? I think Charlotte's become John Cena, in that she wins a lot and anyone who opposes her gets cheered, which is dumb all by itself.

Becky always gets big pops, she is easily the fan favorite of Smackdown now that Asuka has been rendered irrelevant, and even before that, she's always been the 'sweetheart'. I think the backlash is based on the months of storyline building Becky as this big babyface finally getting her shot and then for the sake of nothing, just turning her heel, that's some Russo shit right there. How does WWE expect the fans to get behind the idea that she is a heel if we've been wanting her crowning for months and then out of nowhere Charlotte comes in and takes the title from her?

I see it as they're about to become Reigns and Bryan, Charlotte getting the push because she's Vince's golden girl, while the crowd wants Becky to be the champ.

For the record, that was all stuff Becky said. I was just recapping it. Personally, I think I fall more into the camp of what I think WWE was expecting, which is that the heat with the fans is supposed to stem from the fact that Becky said she would be cool with it if Charlotte was in the match and won and then, when it came down to it, she wasn't. They built this up for us to want to see Becky as champion, but that should have obviously been conditional on Becky actually being able to win the match. She didn't. She got beat, clean in the middle of the ring, and then assaulted the person who beat her. That's heel turn 101.

I see the Charlotte-Cena comparison, and while I agree with it overall, I don't think it applies here. People have been all over WWE for not realizing that the fans would side with Becky after the storyline was all about Becky trying to win the championship for the first time in eighteen months, but as I said above, that should have been contingent on Becky being able to win it fairly, and I think that's how WWE was thinking as well. I think people had trouble processing the idea- only confirmable with hindsight (although many people did predict it beforehand as well), that this is not the story of Becky Lynch winning the championship. She might win it later on as part of this story, but what this is is the story of Becky Lynch's heel turn. And for that story to mean the most, she had to turn on her best friend: Charlotte. Charlotte winning the title here was a necessary component of the story they want to tell with Becky, not a "Charlotte wins because she's the golden girl" thing.

To tie the Charlotte-Cena comparison into something else from this show, I found myself having similar feelings about New Day getting to be the ones to finally take down the Bludgeon Brothers. They feel like the be-all end-all of the tag team division, which is frustrating when there are so many other equally talented teams out there who feel like they never get anything.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 21:22

To tie the Charlotte-Cena comparison into something else from this show, I found myself having similar feelings about New Day getting to be the ones to finally take down the Bludgeon Brothers. They feel like the be-all end-all of the tag team division, which is frustrating when there are so many other equally talented teams out there who feel like they never get anything.

Are we sure New Day didn't win the title exclusively because Rowan tore a bicep?

NWK2000 wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 21:44

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 21:22

To tie the Charlotte-Cena comparison into something else from this show, I found myself having similar feelings about New Day getting to be the ones to finally take down the Bludgeon Brothers. They feel like the be-all end-all of the tag team division, which is frustrating when there are so many other equally talented teams out there who feel like they never get anything.

Are we sure New Day didn't win the title exclusively because Rowan tore a bicep?

Yes pretty much lol.

Even on the PPV it HAD to be the new day getting all of that crazy offense in on the bludgeon brothers...man.

NWK2000 wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 21:44

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 21:22

To tie the Charlotte-Cena comparison into something else from this show, I found myself having similar feelings about New Day getting to be the ones to finally take down the Bludgeon Brothers. They feel like the be-all end-all of the tag team division, which is frustrating when there are so many other equally talented teams out there who feel like they never get anything.

Are we sure New Day didn't win the title exclusively because Rowan tore a bicep?

I assume so. If they were originally slated to lose this match then why would they even do a DQ at the PPV instead of just having the Bludgeon Brothers win? The DQ at the PPV was setting this win up.

They're such fuckin' idiots lol. Charlotte as champion again isn't much better. It should be...Asuka, Sasha Banks, Bludgeon Brothers, across both brands. And the Revival. As far as champions go that is. I'd totally be up for an eventual Zelena Vega run at some point in the future if she stays in the ring.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 21:22
For the record, that was all stuff Becky said. I was just recapping it. Personally, I think I fall more into the camp of what I think WWE was expecting, which is that the heat with the fans is supposed to stem from the fact that Becky said she would be cool with it if Charlotte was in the match and won and then, when it came down to it, she wasn't. They built this up for us to want to see Becky as champion, but that should have obviously been conditional on Becky actually being able to win the match. She didn't. She got beat, clean in the middle of the ring, and then assaulted the person who beat her. That's heel turn 101.

I see the Charlotte-Cena comparison, and while I agree with it overall, I don't think it applies here. People have been all over WWE for not realizing that the fans would side with Becky after the storyline was all about Becky trying to win the championship for the first time in eighteen months, but as I said above, that should have been contingent on Becky being able to win it fairly, and I think that's how WWE was thinking as well. I think people had trouble processing the idea- only confirmable with hindsight (although many people did predict it beforehand as well), that this is not the story of Becky Lynch winning the championship. She might win it later on as part of this story, but what this is is the story of Becky Lynch's heel turn. And for that story to mean the most, she had to turn on her best friend: Charlotte. Charlotte winning the title here was a necessary component of the story they want to tell with Becky, not a "Charlotte wins because she's the golden girl" thing.

To tie the Charlotte-Cena comparison into something else from this show, I found myself having similar feelings about New Day getting to be the ones to finally take down the Bludgeon Brothers. They feel like the be-all end-all of the tag team division, which is frustrating when there are so many other equally talented teams out there who feel like they never get anything.

you're giving WWE way to much credit here. They're not really trying to tell neither story, Carmella vs Asuka and Carmella vs Becky were filler because Charlotte got injured and they were buying time. And with EVOLUTION (LIVE ON THE WWE NETWORK FOR $9.99), and the whole Charlotte vs Ronda thing happening next year, they just need to have Charlotte with the title right now and likely until WM. Charlotte and Becky are just gonna have a whatever match a HIAC and then get Becky out of the way so Charlotte can have her epic dream match at EVOLUTION against the Ghost of Moolah or whatever legend is gonna job to her.

And even if they were really trying to tell the story of Becky turns heel, then once again, this is just one of many examples of WWE completely misreading their audience, and it's not like it's a one night reaction and we MUST preserve the sanctity of this storyline, no, this is months if not years of Becky being a fan favorite and she's hot as hell right now and instead of capitalizing, they just do whatever.

cero2k wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 22:51

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 21:22
For the record, that was all stuff Becky said. I was just recapping it. Personally, I think I fall more into the camp of what I think WWE was expecting, which is that the heat with the fans is supposed to stem from the fact that Becky said she would be cool with it if Charlotte was in the match and won and then, when it came down to it, she wasn't. They built this up for us to want to see Becky as champion, but that should have obviously been conditional on Becky actually being able to win the match. She didn't. She got beat, clean in the middle of the ring, and then assaulted the person who beat her. That's heel turn 101.

I see the Charlotte-Cena comparison, and while I agree with it overall, I don't think it applies here. People have been all over WWE for not realizing that the fans would side with Becky after the storyline was all about Becky trying to win the championship for the first time in eighteen months, but as I said above, that should have been contingent on Becky being able to win it fairly, and I think that's how WWE was thinking as well. I think people had trouble processing the idea- only confirmable with hindsight (although many people did predict it beforehand as well), that this is not the story of Becky Lynch winning the championship. She might win it later on as part of this story, but what this is is the story of Becky Lynch's heel turn. And for that story to mean the most, she had to turn on her best friend: Charlotte. Charlotte winning the title here was a necessary component of the story they want to tell with Becky, not a "Charlotte wins because she's the golden girl" thing.

To tie the Charlotte-Cena comparison into something else from this show, I found myself having similar feelings about New Day getting to be the ones to finally take down the Bludgeon Brothers. They feel like the be-all end-all of the tag team division, which is frustrating when there are so many other equally talented teams out there who feel like they never get anything.

you're giving WWE way to much credit here. They're not really trying to tell neither story, Carmella vs Asuka and Carmella vs Becky were filler because Charlotte got injured and they were buying time. And with EVOLUTION (LIVE ON THE WWE NETWORK FOR $9.99), and the whole Charlotte vs Ronda thing happening next year, they just need to have Charlotte with the title right now and likely until WM. Charlotte and Becky are just gonna have a whatever match a HIAC and then get Becky out of the way so Charlotte can have her epic dream match at EVOLUTION against the Ghost of Moolah or whatever legend is gonna job to her.

This is not mutually exclusive with them telling the story of a Becky Lynch heel turn.

cero2k wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 22:51 And even if they were really trying to tell the story of Becky turns heel, then once again, this is just one of many examples of WWE completely misreading their audience, and it's not like it's a one night reaction and we MUST preserve the sanctity of this storyline, no, this is months if not years of Becky being a fan favorite and she's hot as hell right now and instead of capitalizing, they just do whatever.

I disagree. Becky wasn't that hot until a few weeks ago, and while they could call an audible, it wouldn't address the real problem, which was that SD's division was not only stale but REALLY needed a top heel who could work. Now we have one. You could argue that it would have been better to turn Charlotte here and have Becky win the belt as a babyface, 1) I don't think the scenario works anywhere near as well if Becky comes out of the PPV with the belt (the best bet would be heel Charlotte screwing her and babyface Becky chasing her until Evolution. 2) You've also got Carmrella's rematch, which requires a babyface champion because WWE doesn't do heel vs. heel, and i3) if you want to stretch the Becky chase out until Evolution, you'll need Charlotte to be interacting with some other babyface, and she's already faced all of them during this run, whereas Becky has never been a heel on the main roster and hasn't faced any of them. For what WWE has set out to do, Becky turning heel and Charlotte winning the belt here are what made the most sense.

If it's any consolation, the "Champion vs. Champion at WrestleMania" rumor makes no sense to me because then what is the Royal Rumble winner going to do, so I think Becky does wind up taking the belt from Charlotte relatively soon, then feuds with first Naomi and then (probably at the Rumble) Asuka.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 23:20
I disagree. Becky wasn't that hot until a few weeks ago, and while they could call an audible, it wouldn't address the real problem, which was that SD's division was not only stale but REALLY needed a top heel who could work. Now we have one. You could argue that it would have been better to turn Charlotte here and have Becky win the belt as a babyface, 1) I don't think the scenario works anywhere near as well if Becky comes out of the PPV with the belt (the best bet would be heel Charlotte screwing her and babyface Becky chasing her until Evolution. 2) You've also got Carmrella's rematch, which requires a babyface champion because WWE doesn't do heel vs. heel, and i3) if you want to stretch the Becky chase out until Evolution, you'll need Charlotte to be interacting with some other babyface, and she's already faced all of them during this run, whereas Becky has never been a heel on the main roster and hasn't faced any of them. For what WWE has set out to do, Becky turning heel and Charlotte winning the belt here are what made the most sense.

If it's any consolation, the "Champion vs. Champion at WrestleMania" rumor makes no sense to me because then what is the Royal Rumble winner going to do, so I think Becky does wind up taking the belt from Charlotte relatively soon, then feuds with first Naomi and then (probably at the Rumble) Asuka.

If Becky wins, there is no heel vs heel, she stays babyface like everyone in the crowd wanted, and if you want a top heel, that's Asuka because she hasn't done shit since she lost to Charlotte, or Charlotte because she is a natural heel. I would not say that turning Becky makes sense given the last months of storyline and how the match played out, can you make more unique matches, sure, except she's just gonna feud with Charlotte anyway.

it's not necessarily champion vs champion, it's Charlotte vs Ronda, but you use the titles to start the feud at Evolution with a rivalry of who is better, and it's a whole lot easier to take the title off of Ronda who can't have top defenses til then and who actually has strong antagonists like Steph and whoever lackey she picks. And even at the end, they could still have Charlotte or Ronda defend the tittle at the rumble, or have the winner lose the shot before hand, when it comes to making history, i'm sure they're willing to throw everything out the window so the golden girls can main event wrestlemania. You give WWE too much credit.

cero2k wrote: ↑Aug 23rd, '18, 10:02

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 22nd, '18, 23:20
I disagree. Becky wasn't that hot until a few weeks ago, and while they could call an audible, it wouldn't address the real problem, which was that SD's division was not only stale but REALLY needed a top heel who could work. Now we have one. You could argue that it would have been better to turn Charlotte here and have Becky win the belt as a babyface, 1) I don't think the scenario works anywhere near as well if Becky comes out of the PPV with the belt (the best bet would be heel Charlotte screwing her and babyface Becky chasing her until Evolution. 2) You've also got Carmrella's rematch, which requires a babyface champion because WWE doesn't do heel vs. heel, and i3) if you want to stretch the Becky chase out until Evolution, you'll need Charlotte to be interacting with some other babyface, and she's already faced all of them during this run, whereas Becky has never been a heel on the main roster and hasn't faced any of them. For what WWE has set out to do, Becky turning heel and Charlotte winning the belt here are what made the most sense.

If it's any consolation, the "Champion vs. Champion at WrestleMania" rumor makes no sense to me because then what is the Royal Rumble winner going to do, so I think Becky does wind up taking the belt from Charlotte relatively soon, then feuds with first Naomi and then (probably at the Rumble) Asuka.

If Becky wins, there is no heel vs heel, she stays babyface like everyone in the crowd wanted, and if you want a top heel, that's Asuka because she hasn't done shit since she lost to Charlotte, or Charlotte because she is a natural heel. I would not say that turning Becky makes sense given the last months of storyline and how the match played out, can you make more unique matches, sure, except she's just gonna feud with Charlotte anyway.

Yeah... and Charlotte and Becky have only had one feud, which was with Charlotte as the heel and Becky as the babyface. I don't think Asuka will get booed. She comes off as too cool too be seen as a bully heel, and plus they've already got Nakamura as a heel.
I don't see how you can say turning Becky didn't make sense given the storyline. She might be sympathetic, but there is no denying that she is the heel in this situation. It's not like Charlotte lobbied for this title shot.

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 23rd, '18, 10:36
Yeah... and Charlotte and Becky have only had one feud, which was with Charlotte as the heel and Becky as the babyface. I don't think Asuka will get booed. She comes off as too cool too be seen as a bully heel, and plus they've already got Nakamura as a heel.
I don't see how you can say turning Becky didn't make sense given the storyline. She might be sympathetic, but there is no denying that she is the heel in this situation. It's not like Charlotte lobbied for this title shot.

Neither Asuka or Becky will get booed, they're too cool to get booed by the mainstream audience. WWE sucks at letting natural heels be heels, Orton, Roode, Sasha, Charlotte, Miz, etc, they're all natural heels that they force to be babyfaces and they rather turn those who the people are behind off so they can push their poster boys.

To me Becky didn't turn because she's evil and hates the fans and Charlotte, she attacked out of frustration. Being frustrated doesn't make you a heel. WWE is really trying to make this a heel turn, make it black and white like always, and they'll let the story go on like this because they give zero shits, but given the build up, the finish of the match, it's just a babyface snapping and the crowd completely agrees with her.

cero2k wrote: ↑Aug 23rd, '18, 11:59

Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Aug 23rd, '18, 10:36
Yeah... and Charlotte and Becky have only had one feud, which was with Charlotte as the heel and Becky as the babyface. I don't think Asuka will get booed. She comes off as too cool too be seen as a bully heel, and plus they've already got Nakamura as a heel.
I don't see how you can say turning Becky didn't make sense given the storyline. She might be sympathetic, but there is no denying that she is the heel in this situation. It's not like Charlotte lobbied for this title shot.

Neither Asuka or Becky will get booed, they're too cool to get booed by the mainstream audience. WWE sucks at letting natural heels be heels, Orton, Roode, Sasha, Charlotte, Miz, etc, they're all natural heels that they force to be babyfaces and they rather turn those who the people are behind off so they can push their poster boys.

I think they've done a relatively good job with Orton over the past year of keeping him as a tweener. The problem with Orton is that everyone cheers his heel stuff. They also seem to be doing a good job of stopping that now, though.
Everyone was cheering Roode and Sasha, too. Miz hasn't been a babyface in years. I have no problem with Charlotte being a babyface.

cero2k wrote: ↑Aug 23rd, '18, 11:59 To me Becky didn't turn because she's evil and hates the fans and Charlotte, she attacked out of frustration. Being frustrated doesn't make you a heel. WWE is really trying to make this a heel turn, make it black and white like always, and they'll let the story go on like this because they give zero shits, but given the build up, the finish of the match, it's just a babyface snapping and the crowd completely agrees with her.

Slapping someone or shoving them is frustrating. Beating the sh*t out of them is a heel turn. Also, doing it after two hugs is a heel turn. If she had responded to Charlotte's attempt to hug her with a shove then that would be frustration. That's not what happened.

The crowd shouldn't agree with the babyface for snapping in this manner in this situation. I think that wrestling fans, as a storyteller's audience, have lost the distinction between "bad" and "competently told but not what I want," and this is a major case of it. (And yeah, yeah, I know: Daniel Bryan. But that was a case of fans wanting him to be the top guy, and WWE seeing him as nothing but a mid-carder. In this case WWE is clearly positioning Becky as the top heel on the brand.)