cero2k wrote: ↑Jun 7th, '18, 06:47
Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jun 6th, '18, 23:07
cero2k wrote: ↑Jun 6th, '18, 19:52
People used to be all "OMG, WWE letting guys work in indies" that means nothing when L.A. Park is about to main event the two biggest promotions in Mexico, that's like WCW and WWF willingly letting Macho Man main event WM and Starcade.
Does L.A. Park have a contract with either promotion? It could just be that he is a free agent and can go where he pleases.
And the whole "OMG, WWE letting guys work in indies" thing was a big deal because WWE had stopped doing it in the early 2000s. Dreamer showing up in ROH at
Death Before Dishonor (and he never took a bump) and letting Punk work ROH
Unscripted II because the card had gotten savaged by a blizzard are the only times that I have ever heard about WWE letting guys who were under contract to them work indies (aside from finishing up already agreed-to dates before coming to WWE, I mean) from, like, 2002 until they just started letting guys do it last year. People reacted the way they did because it
was a big deal. It was a HUGE shift in WWE's policy.
he's not signed anywhere, but that is beyond the point, this article is not just about being signed one place and being lent, it's about companies willingly sharing talent overall. CMLL would NEVER use him if he had pulled this stunt last year. We're seeing televised wrestling use non-contracted talent for bigger spots and promotions not trying to bury each other.
I know why they reacted like that, what i'm saying that is nothing compared to other things like seeing AAA and CMLL willingly (if indeed) sharing talent for their biggest shows.
With CMLL and AAA it's certainly a big deal, like it was when NJPW and AJPW first started letting guys work for the other. But (at least in my mind, anyway) those are similar (maybe even more heated, especially in the AAA/CMLL case) to WWE and WCW. Aside from maybe ECW vs. NWA New Jersey, most of the other instances of that type of thing were always from very small promotions who felt like they were competing for the same fans. ROH and TNA never really took shots at each other on the air. It was the fans who did that.
ROH is actually using a lot less non-contracted talent on TV, and has been trending that way for years. Hell... they're using less non-contracted talent off of TV, too. We don't have the "regional" guys anymore. TNA's whole thing is that it's essentially part of a rebranding of the company
within the industry. I'd put them giving guys the freedom to work other places in the same category as their decision to let guys keep rights to their gimmicks. TNA understands that they are much smaller and much less of a force within the industry than they were five years ago. They don't have the money to offer most wrestlers exclusive contracts that are worth the wrestler's while because the indy scene as a whole is a lot financially stronger, so they're using this as incentive instead. It's the same as ROH realizing that they didn't have the muscle to stop guys from working for PWG, but rather than just one single promotion, TNA is just letting guys work pretty much everywhere.
cero2k wrote: ↑Jun 7th, '18, 06:47
Big Red Machine wrote: ↑Jun 6th, '18, 23:07
cero2k wrote: ↑Jun 6th, '18, 19:52
SO yeah, they're not close circles set in stone, but the matter of the fact, we're seeing A LOT of promotions starting to share and work together, promotions that for all accounts wouldn't have done it before, and that's what the article is trying to bring up. I think promotions are realizing that the only way to survive against the WWE monopoly is to work together at least when it comes to sharing talent so that talent can earn more money.
I don't think this has anything to do with "fighting the WWE monopoly." TNA knows they need the exposure, and Delirious is an idiot who is willing to give them (and Magnus/Corgan/the NWA, while we're at it) the exposure for no real gain for ROH. NJPW is working with ROH to get a foothold in North America (they tried on their own and failed) ditto with RevPro, and ROH was mostly using RevPro as a "local promoter" for the few times they go to the UK. Ditto PROGRESS with whoever they worked with in Australia. The PROGRESS/wXw stuff is probably similar on the "what does PROGRESS get out of it" side, while wXw gets exposure in England, where they have started running more shows. They're working together because they each get something out of it (or, in the case of ROH, because Delirious is easy to take advantage of), not out of some grand "WE MUST UNITE TO STOP WWE FROM TAKING OVER THE WORLD!" situation.
Why can't it be both? The only way to hope that your talent stays with you and doesn't run to the wwe kid promotions in hopes of being signed is to offer that talent as much as possible. That comes in the form of bookings, getting to be on TV via ROH or Impact, being exposed in Japan, UK, Mexico, etc. Being booked in NJPW one day. A promoter would be incredibly stupid to just sit there and think that everything is gonna be ok, especially if you're one of the 'bigger' promotions trying to make things work with storylines and build around someone. Obviously every promotion has their own agenda into working with other promotions, and even if they're as selfish as you're portraying them, there's still gain to everyone if you can work well with others. You say ROH has no gain, but Aldis/Aries has been the most noteworthy thing to happen in ROH since Cody lost the title, everything else has been incredibly irrelevant.
PROGRESS/wXw, I see it the other way, PROGRESS gains the most when your most popular guy is from other there now that the LDRS are gone and they can't secure BSS because of WWE (and now this may get worse). wXw has gained their exposure by their own efforts via 16Carat Gold, because aside from WALTER, none of the other guys have been outside the promotion that much. If we know about wXw for 16Carat Gold, UK most definitely knows about wXw.
I'd argue that the Magnus thing is more an
All In thing than an ROH thing, and the reason people are talking about it is because everyone is annoyed that this basically spoils the main event of Best in the World. If you want to consider the Magnus thing an ROH thing, then surely the Omega vs. Cody match is an ROH thing, too, and I think that has been probably more buzz-worthy than anything else. The Aries thing was definitely buzz-worthy, but the reason that it's basically the only thing ROH has done that has had people talking has more to do with the lackluster booking than with anything else. I mean... what else has there even been,
period? The only things in the company that feel like they've had more thought put into them than just coming up with a general idea have been Cody vs. Taven and Bully Ray vs. Flip Gordon and Cheeseburger (and if I had to guess, Cody and Bubba have been doing most of the booking for those feuds).
With PROGRESS/wXw I would argue that PROGRESS was already using WALTER (and Thatcher, and Brookes) before they started really working together, and that while you're not wrong that WALTER is now a more important player for PROGRESS for the reasons you said, the reason for that is because PROGRESS brought him in and booked him to matter. It's not like ROH counting on New Japan talent to do their drawing for them because they haven't had much success in creating their own draws the past few years.
Yes, wXw has created their own exposure, but having their booker and kayfabe authority figure show up on another promotion's show and make a challenge on behalf of the wXw Unified World Wrestling Champion to a former PROGRESS World Champion for a match on the biggest show of the year (and almost certainly the biggest indy show in all of Europe all year) is a step up in their exposure. PROGRESS seems to have tapped into a slightly different crowd than many other British promotions. Their fanbase has a PWG-ish hipster element to it in addition to British and now also American hardcores. wXw's fanbase seems to be a combination of German hardcores and international grapplef*ck hipsters (it's like the 2011 PWG but for people who love post-2013 EVOLVE). Those fanbases are different, and wXw is hoping that PROGRESS' cult following will respond well to wXw's own cult hero. PROGRESS, meanwhile, gets someone who knows the German landscape and will have some name value in Germany to non-English speakers to help them promote their tour their.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that with the exception of PROGRESS/wXw WWE's patronage deals with PROGRESS and ICW (and, to a lesser extent, EVOLVE), the few indies TNA has shown matches from on their TV (and, aside from D'Amore's own promotion, I don't know if any of those were more than one-time things), and the ROH/NJPW/CMLL/RevPro group, I don't see most of this as promotions "working together" as much as it is them realizing that it makes sense to not pointlessly work against each other. It's not active cooperation so much as it is them ceasing to not cooperate.