cero2k wrote:Soo, for those that don't know, ECIII invaded EVOLVE 61 and pretty much talked shit of NXT and Triple H and DeMott.

Sooo what exactly is this? Are WWE cool with Evolve running this angle?

I mean, I can totally see that Evolve is making Galloway and ECIII look like pissed sour pussies, and the young NXT up and comers as the heroes, but there's still going to be a lot of shoots and TNA connections here.

I can see myself starting to dislike EVOLVE a lot in the coming months if they keep sucking Hunter's dick

cero2k wrote:I can see myself starting to dislike EVOLVE a lot in the coming months if they keep sucking Hunter's dick

Big Red Machine wrote: Think about your last sentence there, Cero:

cero2k wrote:I can see myself starting to dislike EVOLVE a lot in the coming months if they keep sucking Hunter's dick

The implication of the phrase "sucking Hunter's dick" is that they are getting (or at least trying to get) something out of their relationship with WWE, even if that thing is as simple as keeping Hunter happy. And if they feel that they need Hunter for something and they are willing to sell themselves to get it, then they aren't very "independent" anymore, are they? And that's what Drew said that the start of all of this: They built this and make it grow, and it had been growing slowly but steadily... so what do they need to be selling out to WWE for?

Also, I'm sure Gabe likes the idea of being able to use Johnny Gargano as on-screen mouthpiece to explain his reasons for starting to work so closely with WWE.

cero2k wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote: Think about your last sentence there, Cero:

cero2k wrote:I can see myself starting to dislike EVOLVE a lot in the coming months if they keep sucking Hunter's dick

The implication of the phrase "sucking Hunter's dick" is that they are getting (or at least trying to get) something out of their relationship with WWE, even if that thing is as simple as keeping Hunter happy. And if they feel that they need Hunter for something and they are willing to sell themselves to get it, then they aren't very "independent" anymore, are they? And that's what Drew said that the start of all of this: They built this and make it grow, and it had been growing slowly but steadily... so what do they need to be selling out to WWE for?

Also, I'm sure Gabe likes the idea of being able to use Johnny Gargano as on-screen mouthpiece to explain his reasons for starting to work so closely with WWE.

nope, they're not that independent anymore, they're now NXT's developmental territory. I don't really have anything against the angle itself, but I know i'm gonna get tired of the announcers and all the nxt-whannabes doing promos on how awesome it is to be in NXT and WWE. I already have JBL and Graves telling me every week that nothing matters until you're in WWE, now i'm gonna have a whole evolve angle about it

Big Red Machine wrote: I'll accept your argument that they aren't "independent" anymore, but at the same time, look at last night's results in light of the post-WM weekend news. We all heard that WWE wants EVOLVE to focus more on guys they think have NXT potential and stop using guys that got cut from NXT, right? Hell... I was certain that was the only reason that another Hero vs. Sabre Jr. rematch was booked so quickly: so Zack could finally get his big win over Hero and then Hero could move on.
Hero beat Zack again.


EVOLVE isn't saying "nothing matters until you've made it to WWE." They're saying that WWE is also a place with good wrestling, and it happens to get our awesome wrestlers the exposure they deserve. The show ended with them all taking about how EVOLVE is the best, not NXT. Those Crusierweight Classic qualifiers? Those were 100% Evolve-style matches. They were not pandering at all. They were complementing something that everyone was saying was a cool idea back when it was first announced, and thanking a promotion that had done them some nice favors that has, in fact, directly lead to a rise in attendance.
Think about who is in charge here: Gabe fully agreed with Samoa Joe's suggestion that the ROH World Champion should not be doing jobs in other promotions. When it did happen, like at the 2005 TPI, he came up with the seeds of the ROH-CZW feud just to make sure that Dragon got his win back over Hero in an ROH ring. If he's that protective of his product being buried in someone else's ring, how much more so will be be of his product being made to look secondary on his own shows?

cero2k wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote: I'll accept your argument that they aren't "independent" anymore, but at the same time, look at last night's results in light of the post-WM weekend news. We all heard that WWE wants EVOLVE to focus more on guys they think have NXT potential and stop using guys that got cut from NXT, right? Hell... I was certain that was the only reason that another Hero vs. Sabre Jr. rematch was booked so quickly: so Zack could finally get his big win over Hero and then Hero could move on.
Hero beat Zack again.


EVOLVE isn't saying "nothing matters until you've made it to WWE." They're saying that WWE is also a place with good wrestling, and it happens to get our awesome wrestlers the exposure they deserve. The show ended with them all taking about how EVOLVE is the best, not NXT. Those Crusierweight Classic qualifiers? Those were 100% Evolve-style matches. They were not pandering at all. They were complementing something that everyone was saying was a cool idea back when it was first announced, and thanking a promotion that had done them some nice favors that has, in fact, directly lead to a rise in attendance.
Think about who is in charge here: Gabe fully agreed with Samoa Joe's suggestion that the ROH World Champion should not be doing jobs in other promotions. When it did happen, like at the 2005 TPI, he came up with the seeds of the ROH-CZW feud just to make sure that Dragon got his win back over Hero in an ROH ring. If he's that protective of his product being buried in someone else's ring, how much more so will be be of his product being made to look secondary on his own shows?

It's not a change that is going to happen over night, it should be gradual, not all Evolve guys are going to WWE, but surely being in the WWE's radar will get them spotlight and the position where they'll be the heroes, just look at who are fighting ECIII/Galloway: TJP who i don't think has main evented yet, Gulak who I think we can agree is not much of a heroe, and NXT sweetheart Gargano (who actually makes sense). I know Gabe is not dumb enough to simply go all in blindly, he knows that you won't just get rid of people who WWE doesn't want, because at the end of the day, you want to be able to keep strong guys regardless of who WWE takes.

Yeah, EVOLVE is not saying "nothing matters until you'v made it to WWE", but they are making it seem like the best thing that has happened to Gargano and the TJP and Gulak, to me that makes them seem really low rate. Everyone knows WWE is the biggest company, but making an angle about how awesome it is to go there and making those guys the babyfaces is just not my cup of tea. Punk was a demon for going to WWE, these guys are babyfaces. I think you're right on making a CZW/ROH thing here, Civil War is indeed the new flavor in town, and when hearing their promos, i know which side i'm on