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What about THesz, Hackenschmidt, & Lewis? These men all made history? Lewis retired as champion... THesz was the last unbeatable champion... Hackenschmidt was the first true World champion (all when things were either planned or really happened based on where the money was)Big Red Machine wrote:Toots Mondt
Ric Flair
Hulk Hogan
Terry Funk
Lou Thesz
Misawa
Paul Heyman
Vince K. McMahon
El Santo
CM Punk
Guys who just miss the cut:
Harley Race
Verne Gagne
The Rock
Steve Austin
Kenta Kobashi
Kensuke Sasaki
John Zandig
Samoa Joe
Bruno Sammartino
Abdullah the Butcher
The Sheik
When making this list, I took a different approach. I chose guys who forever changed the history of wrestling, whether in their own country or around the world, as well as being great workers/bookers/promoters. Yes, guys like Joe and Bruno and Gange both carried and even MADE their companies... but their lasting effect on the business was not as great.
We all know how Hogan, Vince, Mondt, Thesz, Heyman, etc. changed the landscape, but I'd like to explain some of my more awkward picks:
Terry Funk- Aside from being a tremendous worker who had a very long and storied career, Funk was the first HUGE name to be able to wrestle not just the traditional style, but to be just as popular with the deathmatch style.
CM Punk- Punk was the first true indy star to find success in a mainstream company.
Ric Flair- Flair changed wrestling by being Flair. Without Flair, Vince would have bought out Crockett, too.
If things really happen, then it's not pro wrestling. During both Gotch and Hackschmidt's careers, 99% of the time, things were legit. IMO< the first true pro-wrestling match as we know it today WOULD have been Gotch vs. Hackenschmidt, had their not been a double cross. I had Thesz on my list.ECWFlairfan wrote:What about THesz, Hackenschmidt, & Lewis? These men all made history? Lewis retired as champion... THesz was the last unbeatable champion... Hackenschmidt was the first true World champion (all when things were either planned or really happened based on where the money was)Big Red Machine wrote:Toots Mondt
Ric Flair
Hulk Hogan
Terry Funk
Lou Thesz
Misawa
Paul Heyman
Vince K. McMahon
El Santo
CM Punk
Guys who just miss the cut:
Harley Race
Verne Gagne
The Rock
Steve Austin
Kenta Kobashi
Kensuke Sasaki
John Zandig
Samoa Joe
Bruno Sammartino
Abdullah the Butcher
The Sheik
When making this list, I took a different approach. I chose guys who forever changed the history of wrestling, whether in their own country or around the world, as well as being great workers/bookers/promoters. Yes, guys like Joe and Bruno and Gange both carried and even MADE their companies... but their lasting effect on the business was not as great.
We all know how Hogan, Vince, Mondt, Thesz, Heyman, etc. changed the landscape, but I'd like to explain some of my more awkward picks:
Terry Funk- Aside from being a tremendous worker who had a very long and storied career, Funk was the first HUGE name to be able to wrestle not just the traditional style, but to be just as popular with the deathmatch style.
CM Punk- Punk was the first true indy star to find success in a mainstream company.
Ric Flair- Flair changed wrestling by being Flair. Without Flair, Vince would have bought out Crockett, too.
Frank Gotch!!! Man I have to include him in my list... but who do I remove? Guess it has to be Buddy Rogers in spite of being the first former WWWF/NWA champion...Big Red Machine wrote:If things really happen, then it's not pro wrestling. During both Gotch and Hackschmidt's careers, 99% of the time, things were legit. IMO< the first true pro-wrestling match as we know it today WOULD have been Gotch vs. Hackenschmidt, had their not been a double cross. I had Thesz on my list.
While there were many years where the line was blurred, those years didn't occur until after Gotch and Hackenschmidt retired.ECWFlairfan wrote:Frank Gotch!!! Man I have to include him in my list... but who do I remove? Guess it has to be Buddy Rogers in spite of being the first former WWWF/NWA champion...Big Red Machine wrote:If things really happen, then it's not pro wrestling. During both Gotch and Hackschmidt's careers, 99% of the time, things were legit. IMO< the first true pro-wrestling match as we know it today WOULD have been Gotch vs. Hackenschmidt, had their not been a double cross. I had Thesz on my list.
Pro Wrestling is actually both the real & the planned... there were too many years where the line was blurred for there to be a clean break... so I argue that Hackenschmidt belongs...
Their original match wasn't blurred, btu wasn't their rematch messed up because of the "accident" during sparring? To me that does blur the line...Big Red Machine wrote:While there were many years where the line was blurred, those years didn't occur until after Gotch and Hackenschmidt retired.
That doesn't blur the line. That is reality. That match also ended in a double-cross. The planned finish was that Hackenschmidt would win the first fall so he would look strong, but Gotch would win the next two, and thus, the match. Gotch double-crossed Hackenschmidt (almost certainly taking advantage of the "accidental" injury) and beat him in two straight.ECWFlairfan wrote:Their original match wasn't blurred, btu wasn't their rematch messed up because of the "accident" during sparring? To me that does blur the line...Big Red Machine wrote:While there were many years where the line was blurred, those years didn't occur until after Gotch and Hackenschmidt retired.
Ahhh...I don't think that there should be a hall of fame for legitimate competition at all.ECWFlairfan wrote:But even then some won via shoot while others won via plan... truth is, this is an argument where we both will have opinions but we unfortunately will never really know... which is unfortunate because it affects our view of Hall of Fames when truthfully there ought to be 2 wings: 1 for legitimate competition & 1 for "planned" endings...and when that line was crossed, we'll never know thanks to kayfabe...