Big Red Machine wrote:

badnewzxl wrote:If you're talking about the promotion of the show, then I guess I see what you're saying. DBD took the usually spot for GBH this year; they should have just not had a GBH this year or named the Center Stage shows GBH or DBD, since those are two trademark ROH shows.

If they plan to have five or six ippv's per year, they should be the Anniversary show, SCOH, DBD, GBH, and FB. I'd like to see Survival of the Fittest on iPPV too.

Back when he was booking, Gabe said that the reason that he chose not to make the ROH trademark shows into PPVs was because those shows were already important, and thus, were going to sell DVDs anyway (especially if they were good). By having the PPVs be new shows, it created a second series of very important shows that would also sell DVDs. The same logic sort of applies here.

so why are we coming down on them for not promoting a show that's "already important?" According to what you just said, ROH is just following Gabe's recipe. Right?

badnewzxl wrote:

Big Red Machine wrote:

badnewzxl wrote:If you're talking about the promotion of the show, then I guess I see what you're saying. DBD took the usually spot for GBH this year; they should have just not had a GBH this year or named the Center Stage shows GBH or DBD, since those are two trademark ROH shows.

If they plan to have five or six ippv's per year, they should be the Anniversary show, SCOH, DBD, GBH, and FB. I'd like to see Survival of the Fittest on iPPV too.

Back when he was booking, Gabe said that the reason that he chose not to make the ROH trademark shows into PPVs was because those shows were already important, and thus, were going to sell DVDs anyway (especially if they were good). By having the PPVs be new shows, it created a second series of very important shows that would also sell DVDs. The same logic sort of applies here.

so why are we coming down on them for not promoting a show that's "already important?" According to what you just said, ROH is just following Gabe's recipe. Right?

Because ROH didn't make it seem important at all. Gabe's recipe made both the PPVs and the non-PPV big shows look important. The challengers for both the World Title and Tag Team Titles for Final Battle had already been announced before GBH happened, and it was quite obvious that both champs would retain at GBH based on who the challengers were. They had ANX competing for the Tag Team Title shot at Final Battle before GBH (where they already had an upcoming shot at them) already happened.

^ True, but they've done the same thing many times in the past, suggesting that if ANX won the titles WGTT would take their place in the gauntlet match. In 06, Homicide had the shot at the World title at Final Battle but ppl still thought KENTA had a chance to beat Dragon at GBH. They would have just adjusted the card, right? They did that last year when Davey faced Tyler, didn't they? Didn't Davey earn a shot at Aries, but faced Black bc Tyler had beat Aries? I may be mistaken.....

cero2k wrote:

[youtube][/youtube]

I love it when Cornette gets all riled up!

I stopped that video when Corino started talking. There's a MAJOR hole in this storyline. Steen's been the way he is for YEARS, and he's feuded with Generico WAY before last year. Corino is all like "hey I created this monster I'm so sorry." Bullshit! Steen's always been Steen, and he vs. Generico has happened before he ever got involved! Corino sounds like such a pussy and I hate it. I just want him off.

And Cornette I'm really starting to hate too. Everything with ROH management and Cornette being so stuck up about everything is just annoying because I know he's actually like that. The stuff that Steen said about Davey is true. ROH takes itself SO FREAKIN' SERIOUSLY and it drives me crazy. I can't even watch it anymore. It's worse than when Gabe was running it, which I didn't think was possible. It's almost like DGUSA now with taking itself so damn seriously that it's hard for me to sit down and enjoy because for me, watching ROH is like watching all of these guys and fans who are just sitting there for an hour or two saying "we're the only pro wrestling company who does it right and our shit doesn't stink because it's run by Jim Cornette goddammit."

yourcrapsweak wrote:I stopped that video when Corino started talking. There's a MAJOR hole in this storyline. Steen's been the way he is for YEARS, and he's feuded with Generico WAY before last year. Corino is all like "hey I created this monster I'm so sorry." bulls**t! Steen's always been Steen, and he vs. Generico has happened before he ever got involved! Corino sounds like such a pussy and I hate it. I just want him off.

And Cornette I'm really starting to hate too. Everything with ROH management and Cornette being so stuck up about everything is just annoying because I know he's actually like that. The stuff that Steen said about Davey is true. ROH takes itself SO FREAKIN' SERIOUSLY and it drives me crazy. I can't even watch it anymore. It's worse than when Gabe was running it, which I didn't think was possible. It's almost like DGUSA now with taking itself so damn seriously that it's hard for me to sit down and enjoy because for me, watching ROH is like watching all of these guys and fans who are just sitting there for an hour or two saying "we're the only pro wrestling company who does it right and our s**t doesn't stink because it's run by Jim Cornette goddammit."

I've ALWAYS hated Steve Corino and thought he was a pussy; but he's in the same boat as Jimmy Rave with me. I hate them bc they're pussies, but at least it's fun watching them get the shit kicked outta them. I hate Miz cuz he comes off as a total chump to me, but he never gets a sound-ass beating like he deserves. I'm hoping Corino turns and sides with Steen, tho.

Cornette's a Loserville chump; but don't go saying ridiculous things. ROH was OFF THE FUCKIN CHAIN when Gabe was in charge. They put on great match after great match after great match and created an ENTIRE generation of new stars. Of course they take themselves seriously: THEY'RE RING OF HONOR; Honor is in the name. It's like coming down on CZW or ECW for being too bloody and hardcore; it's their schtick, whadaya expect? TNA doesn't take itself seriously; is that any better? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but I totally disagree with you. Without ROH taking itself so seriously, this angle with Steen wouldn't be NEARLY as intriguing as it is. Steen is in the same spot Daniels & the Prophecy and Homicide & the Rottweillers were when they were the guys who stood against "honor."

And, let me switch into mark mode real quick: Davey will kick the dogshit outta Steen. Steen's a great wrestler, and it'll be a phenominal match, but Davey would kick Steens teeth out. Don't be ridiculous, brah.

yourcrapsweak wrote:I stopped that video when Corino started talking. There's a MAJOR hole in this storyline. Steen's been the way he is for YEARS, and he's feuded with Generico WAY before last year. Corino is all like "hey I created this monster I'm so sorry." bulls**t! Steen's always been Steen, and he vs. Generico has happened before he ever got involved! Corino sounds like such a pussy and I hate it. I just want him off.

I think you are misunderstanding what Corino is taking credit for. Kevin Steen has always been a bully, especially towards Generico (go back and watch 2007). He has always had the ability to be a dick to a fan when he wants to, and has always done some gross stuff. What Corino is taking credit for is making it spiraling out of control. Go back and watch the end of 2010. At shows like SOTF and Tag Title Classic II, Steen seemed absolutely nuts. You have to remember how well ROH was working the fans back in the beginning of the year with this thing. All of the interviews that Steen did saying that he didn't want to leave, but ROH forced him out because he was a liability, doing things like locking fans, breaking HDnet equipment, flashing fans, and using their phones to take pictures of his penis. This is the sort of thing that actually would get someone fired from WWE or TNA (and also, I assume, should get one fired in Evolve [from a kayfabe POV], which tries to have a much more "real sports" atmosphere). This is part of ROH trying to (kayfabe) act like a "big" company.

He does seem more sane now, but not by much.

yourcrapsweak wrote: And Cornette I'm really starting to hate too. Everything with ROH management and Cornette being so stuck up about everything is just annoying because I know he's actually like that. The stuff that Steen said about Davey is true. ROH takes itself SO FREAKIN' SERIOUSLY and it drives me crazy. I can't even watch it anymore. It's worse than when Gabe was running it, which I didn't think was possible. It's almost like DGUSA now with taking itself so damn seriously that it's hard for me to sit down and enjoy because for me, watching ROH is like watching all of these guys and fans who are just sitting there for an hour or two saying "we're the only pro wrestling company who does it right and our s**t doesn't stink because it's run by Jim Cornette goddammit."

I agree with many of your points here. Steen is right about Davey (although I think that is ROH taking advantage of Davey's schedule, which has always been a frustration for many fans) and working it into the angle, as many of the things that both Steen and Corino have said recently point to Steen vs. Davey.

ROH has been taking itself a bit too... I don't know if I would say "seriously," but it does feel a lot more corporate now. Rather than being announced at intermission, return dates are now announced at random times via the ROH website, with large blocks of talent all being announced at once, which just feels more "signed and done" rather than a continuing effort to build things up. The fact that there is no return date for several ROH strongholds (Chicago, Boston, Dayton, Detroit), and for a huge emerging market like Toronto is just bad promoting, and once again makes fans feel disconnected from the product.

I hate the changes to the website (especially the store... why is putting the DVDs in chronological order so hard all of a sudden?!). The loss of the message board, IMO, seems to have hurt ROH fandom a lot, as there is a lot less visible discussion of thing by the fans.

I also agree with you about Cornette. He is a good on-air character, but a lot of things he says about other people and companies are, IMO, quite extreme. The whole "we are the only wrestling company that does it right" thing is a tactic that a lot of companies have used over the years, especially as they start to get bigger. It is a promotional tactic. They are trying to get attention. The TV show (although I haven't seen much of it) is, IMO, a bit too focused on this.

badnewzxl wrote:ROH was OFF THE f'n CHAIN when Gabe was in charge. They put on great match after great match after great match and created an ENTIRE generation of new stars. Of course they take themselves seriously: THEY'RE RING OF HONOR; Honor is in the name. It's like coming down on CZW or ECW for being too bloody and hardcore; it's their schtick, whadaya expect? TNA doesn't take itself seriously; is that any better? Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but I totally disagree with you. Without ROH taking itself so seriously, this angle with Steen wouldn't be NEARLY as intriguing as it is. Steen is in the same spot Daniels & the Prophecy and Homicide & the Rottweillers were when they were the guys who stood against "honor."

THIS!

message from Steen

Kevin Steen has written a letter that he requested to be published on ROHwrestling.com. ROH officials have agreed with this request and wanted us to add… “We hope this is the last time anything on this website mentions the vile name of Kevin Steen.”

-------------

In less than 48 hours, I'll be looking across the ring at someone I've admired for over a decade now, as we get ready to wage war on each other. I'll be looking at someone who I always considered a friend as he gets ready to referee the most important match of my life. I'll be looking ringside at someone who, as a kid, I used to watch on TV manage my favorite wrestlers like Davey Boy Smith and Owen Hart, never guessing that he'd one day try to ruin my career.

To say that the odds are against me is an understatement. But you know what? The odds have been stacked against me since the very beginning of my career. I never looked like someone who should be a wrestler. I never looked like an athlete. Yet I managed to work through those obstacles to become one of the most entertaining, unpredictable and appreciated wrestlers on the independent scene today. I have wrestled all over the world for many, many great promotions. What I am is a MUST-SEE attraction for any promotion I work for.

I thrive on being seen as an outcast and a nutcase. I thrive on having people try to sabotage my career because of how big of a threat I've become. I feed on all of that. So you can bet your ass I am absolutely thrilled about the way everything is shaping up for Final Battle.

Some of you might think, judging from my comments here and the comments I made in the last ROH Video Wire while hanging out in a kid's playground, that I am taking Friday night's battle lightly. Let me assure you, nothing is further from the truth.

''The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose.''

- James Arthur Baldwin

I am confident. Not in my victory but in the fact that I will lay waste to several people, cause mayhem and chaos as only I can and finally bring back to ROH an aura of danger and imminent disaster that has been missing for too long now.

I do hope to walk out victorious. But I'm not going to be the guy that walks around saying ''when, not if, I win'' because the man I'm facing on Friday is Steve Fucking Corino. And until recently, I thought that man I was facing was nothing but a shell of the one I looked up to as I came up in the wrestling world. But last month in Chicago, and ever since then, I've noticed something in Steve's eye that had been missing since last year's Final Battle. I see glimmers of fear. I see glimmers of hate. I see glimmers of Evil.

Steve has been claiming that it will be the Corino of old fighting me in NYC. The one who bled buckets, sold out the Hammerstein Ballroom and fought as dirty as he could until he had nothing left to give. If that's true...if that's really the Corino that shows up in NYC -and I hope it is- then I can't be sure of my victory. But you can all be sure of one thing...

Violence is coming back to ROH in a huge way at Final Battle.

Let me end with this...

Steve, you wrote that 10 years ago, you were walking into the Hammerstein as the 27 year old ECW World Heavyweight Champion. And 10 years ago, I was sitting at home watching you do it with admiration in my eyes.

This time, however, I'm the one walking into Hammerstein at 27 years old. But I don't have a title to defend...yet. No. After everything I have been through with this company. I'm actually walking in with absolutely nothing to lose anymore.

And you know what they say about a man who's got nothing to lose...