Let's have fun with this. Complete this sentence. "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..."

[Big Red Machine]

Cody should have been a world champion... he was truly on the way and then he just got derailed! And don’t get me started on that Stardust bullshit.

Cody as world champion, you say? Can I interest you in some fantasy booking?


CHEAP PLUG:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=8565

[KILLdozer]

Not even close. You were complaining about guys having a lot of title reigns and gave examples of people who they actually did put the belt on, almost all of whom came up/returned to the company after WrestleMania XXVIII (we'll count Ryback and Skip Sheffield as different people because they basically kayfabe are). You even complained about them putting the belt on Punk. The time you were complaining about is nowhere near the most egregious time of inflating title reigns (other than the women's division, which you never mentioned). What I'm saying is that the generation before never really got a fair shot. You noted the symptom (inflated reigns for Hunter/Cena/Orton/Edge). I'm noting a cause.



In Masters' case it's partially because he's a heel and would often cheat in his Masterlock Challenges or was outright lying and some babyfaces were able to break it (Lashley, Cena), while others he refused to put it on (Big Show), or others he let the hold go on his own when he saw they wouldn't give up and assaulted them (HBK).

Also with both Henry and Masters, in order to hit their move, they have to be able to hit someone with it. If you don't get caught in the move, the move can't hurt you. Also, you might not appreciate this, being a muscle-lover and all, but muscles don't mean sh*t when faced off against a sufficiently skilled submission wrestler. That's the whole story of the early UFC shows.

Well as for the first section...you could say our ideas about those two split periods of time are one in the same because they pretty much just carried over the same problems from one period to the next. Cena, Orton, HHH and Batista to a lesser extent and The Undertaker-Fuck everyone else and no one gets a real chance about around 10 years or so and "accomplishments" and number of reigns go crazy. There's like two full time periods of wrestlers who never got, at LEAST, well deserved TRIES at or near the top just because they should have chanced on...MVP and others...they refused to put the belt on Cody Rhodes over and over for example and refused to take him to the next level. Beat Randy Orton clean. Fuck it.

I completely disagree that those time periods are one and the same. As I illustrated in the first post, you do eventually start to see people getting pushed relatively quickly into their careers (Del Rio, Sheamus) and new permanent top guys being created (Punk, Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose, Del Rio, even Bryan if you want to give Vince credit for him). Is this mostly out of necessity because Batista and Edge retire and Hunter and Taker only wrestle twice a year? Yes. But the internal sabotage/never giving them a real chance that plagued the Kofi/MVP/Anderson/Swagger/McIntyre/Cody generation is mostly gone until about 2015 when they start mishandling people people again.

I REALLY thought "Undashing" Cody Rhodes, (with the clear mask and hood) , should've been and was going to be world champion.

This was definitely a thing that could have been done.

That was easily the best shit of his career.

[KILLdozer]

I'm just gonna put this out there?

Should The Boogeyman have been bigger?

Idk...he had some skills and a presence and physique though...maybe if they toned down the nonsense crap with the worms...he could have been like a new age Papa Shango.

[Big Red Machine]

I'm just gonna put this out there?

Should The Boogeyman have been bigger?

Idk...he had some skills and a presence and physique though...maybe if they toned down the nonsense crap with the worms...he could have been like a new age Papa Shango.

No. He had no skills, an idiotic and disgusting gimmick, and also lied to the company about his age. he was just another muscle-dude. As for the idea of being "a new age Papa Shango," we tried that. His name is Bray Wyatt, and WWE showed they that had absolutely zero idea how to book him.

[KILLdozer]

I'm just gonna put this out there?

Should The Boogeyman have been bigger?

Idk...he had some skills and a presence and physique though...maybe if they toned down the nonsense crap with the worms...he could have been like a new age Papa Shango.

No. He had no skills, an idiotic and disgusting gimmick, and also lied to the company about his age. he was just another muscle-dude. As for the idea of being "a new age Papa Shango," we tried that. His name is Bray Wyatt, and WWE showed they that had absolutely zero idea how to book him.

Brayy Wyatt was nowhere near Papa Shango. If anything he was just a weird crazy dude that may or may not have been able to teleport. I don't remember any other supernatural mystical stuff.

[Big Red Machine]

I'm just gonna put this out there?

Should The Boogeyman have been bigger?

Idk...he had some skills and a presence and physique though...maybe if they toned down the nonsense crap with the worms...he could have been like a new age Papa Shango.

No. He had no skills, an idiotic and disgusting gimmick, and also lied to the company about his age. he was just another muscle-dude. As for the idea of being "a new age Papa Shango," we tried that. His name is Bray Wyatt, and WWE showed they that had absolutely zero idea how to book him.

Brayy Wyatt was nowhere near Papa Shango. If anything he was just a weird crazy dude that may or may not have been able to teleport. I don't remember any other supernatural mystical stuff.

For Bray, or for Papa Shango?
Papa Shango used dark magic to make Ultimate Warrior vomit different colors cast spells on people to cause them pain, and caused blackouts in the arena. I'd say that counts as supernatural. Bray could teleport, and also called down lightning several times after eating Kane and Taker's souls.. Plus he mind-controlled children with sheep masks, and has the ability to project Erick Rowan's image into a mirror. Both were thoroughly supernatural.

[KILLdozer]

No. He had no skills, an idiotic and disgusting gimmick, and also lied to the company about his age. he was just another muscle-dude. As for the idea of being "a new age Papa Shango," we tried that. His name is Bray Wyatt, and WWE showed they that had absolutely zero idea how to book him.

Brayy Wyatt was nowhere near Papa Shango. If anything he was just a weird crazy dude that may or may not have been able to teleport. I don't remember any other supernatural mystical stuff.

For Bray, or for Papa Shango?
Papa Shango used dark magic to make Ultimate Warrior vomit different colors cast spells on people to cause them pain, and caused blackouts in the arena. I'd say that counts as supernatural. Bray could teleport, and also called down lightning several times after eating Kane and Taker's souls.. Plus he mind-controlled children with sheep masks, and has the ability to project Erick Rowan's image into a mirror. Both were thoroughly supernatural.

Bray Wyatt. I guess I forgot most of that stuff because he was an idiot.

[Serujuunin]

Gonna try to be positive: "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..." If Big E stops doing shitty comedy, he could be world champion material with a good month's work.

You are not the only one who thinks this. Now KOFI on the other hand. I think he could be world championship material if he stopped soding sh*tty comedy. I don't think he SHOULD get the belt, but I think he COULD carry it well if given the chance.

I thought this for years and years, so did my mom and my sister both when we all watched wrestling together. I think with a bit of work he could still be.

So Red, you are not the only person in the world who thinks that haha

[Big Red Machine]

Gonna try to be positive: "I may be the only person in the world who thinks this but..." If Big E stops doing shitty comedy, he could be world champion material with a good month's work.

You are not the only one who thinks this. Now KOFI on the other hand. I think he could be world championship material if he stopped soding sh*tty comedy. I don't think he SHOULD get the belt, but I think he COULD carry it well if given the chance.

I thought this for years and years, so did my mom and my sister both when we all watched wrestling together. I think with a bit of work he could still be.

So Red, you are not the only person in the world who thinks that haha

Rats. Now I need to find a new one. Um... uh...

I think the Ironman Match between John Cena and Randy Orton at Bragging Rights 2009 is AWESOME.

[KILLdozer]

Kingston ain't shit but a glorified upper mid carder with shit ass hair and garbage cliche tattoos. Please!

[KILLdozer]

Zelina Vega deserves much more as far as in-ring goes. She's easily in the upper class and leagues ahead of the garbage women.

[Big Red Machine]

Zelina Vega deserves much more as far as in-ring goes. She's easily in the upper class and leagues ahead of the garbage women.

She's actually really not if you saw her TNA stuff. Being Almas' non-wrestling but still occasionally spot-doing manager accentuates her positives and hides her negatives (and Almas' negatives as well).

[Bob-O]

Kofi has failed like two or three chances at the big boys table already. I don't see it anymore

Given WWE's "rinse and repeat" method of booking, The New Day hasn't done bad for themselves at all. They've also said that they'd love to branch off and go after singles titles while remaining a unit.

Kofi could pull off being the guy, but they'd have to put him there - it's not something that would naturally happen on it's own. He doesn't scream "Main Event" when he walks out. It felt very forced the last time they tried it (with Orton, Stupid Stupid Stupid!!!) and I don't see it being a smooth process. Sometimes I wonder if his friendship with Punk held him back, but that's rambling for a different thread on another day.

If Big E stops doing shitty comedy, he could be world champion material with a good month's work.

Big E I just don't think is a good fit. He's great, I like him, but imagine him in the title picture on either show... he's the guy everyone wants to see succeed, but nobody would want to PAY to see succeed.

Zelina Vega deserves much more as far as in-ring goes. She's easily in the upper class and leagues ahead of the garbage women.

I don't care what they do with her, I want her on my screen as much as possible. She's my wrestle-crush.

For Bray, or for Papa Shango?
Papa Shango used dark magic to make Ultimate Warrior vomit different colors cast spells on people to cause them pain, and caused blackouts in the arena. I'd say that counts as supernatural. Bray could teleport, and also called down lightning several times after eating Kane and Taker's souls.. Plus he mind-controlled children with sheep masks, and has the ability to project Erick Rowan's image into a mirror. Both were thoroughly supernatural.

The three are very very different, though. Boogeyman I didn't think was supposed to be human, he was supposed to be what goes bump in the night, an unsettling entity and it worked. Papa Shango was a voodoo priest, and I don't know wtf they did to Bray but he's a cult leader that they turned horror movie villain. I remember that you took the opposite side when we discussed the similarities of The Street Profits/New Day and Sanity/Wyatt Family, so it surprises me that you're lumping all the supernatural characters together when they're so distinctly different.

Keeping with the topic:
I may be the only person in the world that thinks this but...

... Shayna > Rhonda.

The more they let Rhonda talk the more I can. not. stand. her. It's cringe worthy.

Tasteless Joke. NSFW. I'm sorry Mom.

Hidden text.

It's no surprise to me that Rhonda is struggling to start a family because Travis is probably scrambling to get something in her mouth as soon as she walks through the door.

[Big Red Machine]

For Bray, or for Papa Shango?
Papa Shango used dark magic to make Ultimate Warrior vomit different colors cast spells on people to cause them pain, and caused blackouts in the arena. I'd say that counts as supernatural. Bray could teleport, and also called down lightning several times after eating Kane and Taker's souls.. Plus he mind-controlled children with sheep masks, and has the ability to project Erick Rowan's image into a mirror. Both were thoroughly supernatural.

The three are very very different, though. Boogeyman I didn't think was supposed to be human, he was supposed to be what goes bump in the night, an unsettling entity and it worked. Papa Shango was a voodoo priest, and I don't know wtf they did to Bray but he's a cult leader that they turned horror movie villain. I remember that you took the opposite side when we discussed the similarities of The Street Profits/New Day and Sanity/Wyatt Family, so it surprises me that you're lumping all the supernatural characters together when they're so distinctly different.

I never argued that they were the same. What I pointed out was that they all fall firmly within the category of "supernatural," and I don't think that's a category WWE has any idea how to deal with in an intelligent manner, as shown by the tremendous failure that has been Bray Wyatt (who never should have gone the supernatural route in the first place). "Supernatural" is a broad category, with many different subcategories inside of it. Papa Shango is a voodoo priest while Mil Muertes is an uncaring force of nature and Estonian Thunder Frog was a frog with a magical hammer. All three are supernatural characters and all three are very different.
I don't think pro wrestling should be using any of them at this point unless it's in a universe like CHIKARA's or LU's, but of the three, I like Papa Shango the most simply because his magic is understandable to me. Why can he do magic? Because he's a voodoo priest. That makes sense, and it was an integral part of the character. Bray's magic was something the writers turned to as a crutch, and then they kept going back to the crutch instead of putting actual effort into the character to the point that it pretty much crippled him.
Boogeyman... wasn't even a wrestling character. He was just a guy who showed up and did disgusting things because Vince finds them funny. That character had no place in the wrestling business.

[Big Red Machine]

Even better:

I am the only person who thinks the Sasha vs. Charlotte vs. Bayley match at Clash of Champions 2016 was a masterwork of storytelling.

[KILLdozer]

Even better:

I am the only person who thinks the Sasha vs. Charlotte vs. Bayley match at Clash of Champions 2016 was a masterwork of storytelling.

No. Most of, if not all of their matches were excellent or better, in-ring. They just changed the title consistently way too many times for anything else to actually matter.

[KILLdozer]

Umaaga should have been champion. He was undoubtedly one of the hottest things back then.

[Big Red Machine]

Even better:

I am the only person who thinks the Sasha vs. Charlotte vs. Bayley match at Clash of Champions 2016 was a masterwork of storytelling.

No. Most of, if not all of their matches were excellent or better, in-ring. They just changed the title consistently way too many times for anything else to actually matter.

How often titles changed hand sis irrelevant to the storytelling. This was the one that had the most complex storytelling and used all of the elements of the build-up on TV. The other ones were just "work a body part."

[KILLdozer]

Even better:

I am the only person who thinks the Sasha vs. Charlotte vs. Bayley match at Clash of Champions 2016 was a masterwork of storytelling.

No. Most of, if not all of their matches were excellent or better, in-ring. They just changed the title consistently way too many times for anything else to actually matter.

How often titles changed hand sis irrelevant to the storytelling. This was the one that had the most complex storytelling and used all of the elements of the build-up on TV. The other ones were just "work a body part."

Sure , but the swapping of belts every week and every month just made it feel garbage.

Or...it definitely took a lot out of it and made it much worse than if it HADN'T happened. Put it that way.

[Big Red Machine]

No. Most of, if not all of their matches were excellent or better, in-ring. They just changed the title consistently way too many times for anything else to actually matter.

How often titles changed hand sis irrelevant to the storytelling. This was the one that had the most complex storytelling and used all of the elements of the build-up on TV. The other ones were just "work a body part."

Sure , but the swapping of belts every week and every month just made it feel garbage.

Or...it definitely took a lot out of it and made it much worse than if it HADN'T happened. Put it that way.

I don't think that's true at all for the story they told, though. It was about Sasha and Charlotte wanting to fight each other for the title and seeing Bayley as this interloper while Bayley wanted to prove to everyone that she belonged with the other two. The number of times Sasha and Charlotte have swapped the belt back and forth doesn't take away from that. In fact, there is almost an argument that them having done at least one swap back and forth actually adds to it because it shows that Sasha and Charlotte are on the same level and Bayley's lack of title reigns therefore gives her reason to want to prove herself and gives them reason to dismiss her.
Also, for the record, there had only been one switch back and forth at this point, so your point isn't valid, anyway. Sasha won the title on the first Raw of the brand split, then Charlotte won it back at SummerSlam. This is mid-September, before they were changing the belts every few weeks. There are FOUR title changes from October to December.