BRM Reviews AEW Double Or Nothing (Show of the Year Candidate)

[Big Red Machine]

AEW Double Or Nothing (5/25/2019)- Las Vegas, NV


I’d like to start off by raising a thematic objection to the name of this show. Based off of the build to the previous show, this one should have had a stipulation that if they didn’t draw at least 20,000, Cody had to give Meltzer the money back.

PRE-SHOW:
CASINO BATTLE ROYALE TO DETERMINE WHO WILL FACE THE WINNER OF OMEGA VS. JERICHO TO DETERMINE THE FIRST EVER AEW WORLD CHAMPION- 4/10
Wrestling companies going to Vegas and feeling the need to include references to gambling or decks of cards or other Vegas-y things on the show or in the graphics or whatnot is a pet peeve of mine, but I have to hand it to the AEW crew for coming up with a rules to this battle royale that both made it feel unique and were creative enough to justify the goofy name.
The first group were MJF, Dustin Thomas, Brandon Cutler, Sunny Daze, and Michael Nakazwa. MJF immediately went after Dustin Thomas and everyone booed. If the promoters feel comfortable putting Thomas- who, for those who don’t know, is a bilateral amputee- in the ring then you can’t boo a wrestler just for going after him. They’re going to have to at some point if they want to win. If you want to boo, at least wait until MJF calls him “Lieutenant Dan” first.
This baby oil is definitely going to come back to bite Nakazawa in the end. Being slippery might make it harder for you opponents to get a hold of you, but it will also make it harder for you to grab the ropes to save yourself.
We had a screw-up on one of our very first cues, as the ring announcer didn’t get the message to do the count-down and introduce the second group of wrestlers the way he would do with the third and fourth. Oops.
When the second group came out the first four of them started fighting on the outside for on real reason. This was done so that F.K.A. Tye Dillinger could get the spotlight for his entrance. Uch. And of course the goofball one-note gimmick jobber is over in Elite-land because it’s shtick. Their fanbase and WWE’s are of very similar mindsets. They just happen to focus their affection on different people.
Are we sure that’s really Brian Pillman Jr.? He looks a lot more like Ricky Morton Jr.
The camera missed Jimmy Havoc stapling a lit cigarette to Janela’s forehead... but I was actually fine with them missing it because while that was apparently happening, there were two or three other important things that the camera was focusing on. I know there are people who would call the wrestlers out for stepping on each other’s spots, but this doesn’t bother me because two important things happening at once in a match like this is completely plausible. What bugs me is when we miss action because the cameras inexplicably cut away from the ring to focus on the announcers or the crowd or the big screen or to do a pointless zoom-out shot. Missing something that happens “behind the play” as it were is perfectly normal. Missing something because you put the camera somewhere it had no business being during a match is incompetence.
Luchasaurus and Ace Romero start doing martial arts spots in the middle of the ring, but no one is paying attention because they’re all chanting “ECW!” for Tommy Dreamer in 2019 at the first-ever AEW, before anyone has ever chanted “AEW!” at an AEW show. Dreamer has a trashcan full of weapons. We got a spot where about five guys in a row just walked up to him with their hands down so he could hit them in the head with a trashcan lid. It looked hokey and stupid.
The final entrant was Adam Page, with his knee all taped up due to an injury suffered in last week’s match against PAC. If he was going to limp around on a bad knee, he probably shouldn’t have done a completely unnecessary kip-up.
Orange Cassidy did a run-in to be a comedy goof and do a spot with Dreamer. What was the point of this?
I thought this match dragged on for way too long relative to the number of actual stars it had. It’s a Battle Royale and we all know that only a star has a chance of winning under the best of circumstances, never mind with a chance to become the first AEW World Champion on the line. Of the twenty-one wrestlers in the match, pretty much everyone other than MJF, Janela, Page, and Jimmy Havoc felt like they were either a gimmick wrestler or space-filling jobber, and way too much of the time was spent with the ring full of space-filling jobbers (and even Havoc felt more like a gimmick wrestler at times). The stuff they did with MJF being the ultimate heel throughout was great (and the finish was a nice subversion of the expectations that had been build up by his antics), but there was too much other stuff in between it- most of which wasn’t even the special attraction/gimmick wrestlers doing their thing- to hold my interest whenever MJF wasn’t being MJF.
Also, I have to note that they did, in fact, fudge the entrance times. I don’t know why promotions insist on doing this when not lying seems both easier and more productive, but they do. I was hoping AEW would be different, but apparently not.

ALICIA ATOUT INTERVIEWS KYLIE RAY- no rating, terrible segment
First of all, Cody has the audacity to take a shot at Bayley and then put THIS on my screen. Kylie Ray is Bayley if Bayley were a one-note character who was a mark for comedy goofs instead of superstar professional wrestlers. The interview never happened because Peter Avalon and someone else showed up to quiet them down and then argue over which of them was the “librarian.” They kept shushing each other. Kylie Ray was excited to be seeing this first hand and tried to join in but they all shushed her as well. And this is better than the Usos putting Icy-Hot in The Revival’s tights or R-Truth in drag because... why, exactly?
Wrestlicious was stupid, but at least it made some f*cking sense. Why are there librarians in AEW (especially for considering that the promotion that doesn’t have any archival footage yet)? And why were they brought to this show? And why do they think it’s their business to interrupt interviews? Because they’re librarians and librarians enforce quiet in libraries? So what? Are they too stupid to know that they’re not in a library right now? Say what you will about mid-90s WWF, but at least Dean Douglas wasn’t trying to assign the wrestlers math homework and Sparky Plugg wouldn’t only turn left.

SAMMY GUEVARA vs. KIP SABIAN- 5/10
This was a lot tamer and less flippy than I was expecting.

SADIE GIBBS VIDEO PACKAGE- uninspiring. She can do athletic stuff and she works out. So what? Everyone else can do that at this point, too.

STUFF HAPPENS IN VARIOUS BACKSTAGE BITS- I call bullsh*t on Matt Jackson and Michael Nakazwa having never met before. Also, why did Nick Jackson superkick a random backstage dude who appeared to be trying to help them? That makes him completely unlikable.

THE AEW CREW WELCOME EVERYONE TO THE SHOW- Crowd-fluffing doesn’t really make the show look better on TV if you get to see them come out to fluff the crowd because it exposes the trick. The trick is to do it before you go live in any way.

MAIN SHOW:

SOCAL UNCESNSORED PROMO- After the national anthem, SCU come out for more crowd-fluffing.

SOCAL UNCENSORED vs. STRONG HEARTS (CIMA, T-Hawk, & El Lindaman)- 7/10
AEW has a ten-count instead of a five-count to get out of the ring after a tag. I like this change a lot, but it’s something they have to actually enforce, because if they just start to ignore it like everyone else does with the five-count then they become no different than anyone else.
And... yeah. We’re about five minutes in and they’re already ignoring their rule. Other than that, this was a fine action-packed match to open the PPV proper.

NYLA ROSE vs. DR. BRITT BAKER, DMD vs. KYLIE RAY vs. AWESOME KONG (w/Brandi Rhodes)- 7.75/10
Allie joined the commentary team for this match. This was supposed to be a three-way but Brandi came out before the match and introduced Awesome Kong as the fourth participant. Kong is a great get for AEW for a lot of reasons (talent, credibility in terms of being a serious female wrestler, the GLOW connection for publicity, plus she can probably double as an acting coach backstage), and an off the radar one to boot. Props to whoever had the idea to recruit her.
I really liked this match and thought they did a tremendous job crafting a story based around the size of the competitors and the big different between the larger two and the smaller two. If I had to pick a nit, it’s that it might not have been the best idea to have your first-ever women’s match end with the winner hitting her husband’s finisher instead of her own.
One thing I found worrying was Brandi’s subtle heelishness in the pre-match segment, and in the way she was portrayed in the commentary to build up her match with Allie at Fight for the Fallen. It’s not necessarily a fair criticism to have yet (which is why I am merely calling it a “concern”), but so many years of WWE and TNA have left me scarred about the idea of the heel authority figure. I’m not saying that it can’t be done well or that Brandi doesn’t have the acting ability to pull it off in a way that is a lot less in your face than what we’re used to (hell, her performance here is evidence that does possess that ability), but knowing her husband’s booking proclivities, seeing her go full cartoon would not shock me, either. It’s probably a situation that is best stayed away from for the time being.

BEST FRIENDS vs. JACK EVANS & ANGELICO- 8/10
Lots of great action and a good babyface in peril story. That being said... they’re really not making any effort to enforce this ten-count rule at all.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- not good
Nice, respectful babyface stuff all around. Best Friends want to hug and jack and Angelico consent, and they go to hug... and the lights go out. And when they come back on... there’s a random dude in ring. And also another dude is with him. Oh. Wait. Those are the Super Smash Brothers, aren’t they? Zooming in on stupefied (who is most known for being clean-shaven but currently has a beard) rather than the member of the team with the iconic mask probably wasn’t the best idea. The fans cheer... and then the lights go off again... and now some random masked dues are dragging everyone but SSB out of the ring, so I guess these are their minions or something. Why magically appear without your minions? All you do is blow the element of surprise.
After the beat-down, Evil Uno got a human throne of minions, then he clapped his hands to magically turn the lights out again and disappear everyone. I don’t like magical powers in pro wrestling and if I were booking AEW I would have made the conscious decision to not do anything like this so as to differentiate myself from the past six years of over-done hokeyness of this sort of thing from Matt Hardy in TNA and especially Bray Wyatt in WWE. But that’s an issue of personal taste.
What is not an issue of personal taste, however, was that Alex Marvez and Jim Ross both said they didn’t know who this new team in the ring was so Marvez asked Excalibur and Excalibur replied “I would recognize those two men anywhere!” and then proceeded to not identify them. If you don’t think you can use the Super Smash Brothers name for legal reasons then you ought to have a new one ready to go BEFORE you put them on TV. This smacked of TNA/WCW-esque “we all know who that is!” and then not giving the person a damn name. It makes you look pathetically disorganized (especially after the PAC thing).

They announced All Out for August 31st, and gave a sale date for tickets.

AJA KONG, EMI SAKURA, & YUKA SAKAZAKI vs. HIKARU SHIDA, RYO MIZUNAMI, & RIHO- 6.75/10
This was a fun match, but it felt a lot more like wrestlers who were brought over to be a special attraction for this show than anything that will really matter in the future. This match contained the second misfire by the timekeeper so far tonight. This timekeeper needs to be replaced immediately.

CODY RHODES EXPOSES HIMSELF AND HIS FANBASE- A throne with the Triple H logo on it and is covered in skulls and Cody smashes it with a sledgehammer? Nah. Cody’s definitely not bitter. How much do you think this thing cost to make, anyway? And all so Cody could waste TV time by hitting it with a sledgehammer. Because wielding his own backstage influence to waste other people’s time and money on self-indulgent crap definitely has nothing to do with why people have developed such a dislike of Triple H. Actually, now that I think of it, at least Hunter only wasted other people’s time, not their money.
And why is Hunter even the target, here? He’s not responsible for Cody’s push dying, is he? This isn’t the 2000s anymore where Hunter is the main villain. Get with the times, Cody! Hunter is our great hope for WWE not sucking again. That’s why everyone loves NXT so much. And I will bet you that one week from tonight, the vast majority of the fans in this building who cheered raucously for Cody destroying the Hunter-throne with a sledgehammer are all going to boot up the WWE Network and excitedly watch TakeOver: XXV and go all over the internet and tell everyone how awesome it was. Sheep.

DUSTIN RHODES vs. CODY RHODES (w/Brandi Rhodes)- 8.75/10
The first really athletic thing Dustin tried (that sliding 619 as a reversal to getting rolled into the ring) he f*cked up and they had to do it again. The referee is not counting them out, but I don’t remember if there have been count-outs in the other matches, so maybe AEW doesn’t have any. Excalibur later told us that there is a ten-count on the floor, which Earl Hebner is apparently just going ignore while Cody takes a stroll through the crowd “regroup.”
After doing something before the match designed specifically to get the fans to cheer him, Cody is now a heel, distracting the referee while Brandi interferes on his behalf. You know, for someone who seems so angry at the McMahons, Cody sure seems to have a lot in common with them.
After the second interference I guess Earl Hebner figured out that Brandi was clearly doing something so he ejected her from ringside. She wouldn’t leave, so DDP came out and carried her to the back for the sake of the random cameo (yes, I know it’s something of a call-back to All In, but that appearance was completely random as well). All of this has bought Dustin enough time to gig himself.
When Cody was going to hit Dustin with the weight belt, Hebner took it away, but just moments later when Dustin spanked Cody with it right in front of him, Hebner did not disqualify Dustin. Either it’s legal to use (in which case don’t take it away from Cody) or it’s not legal to use (in which case Dustin should be disqualified). You can’t have it both ways.
All of that out of the way, this was a FANTASTIC, emotion-filled match. Their timing was excellent, the crowd was super-hot, and the match was extremely gripping even though the outcome was never in doubt.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- good
The brothers reconcile as Cody asks Dustin to be his tag team partner when he faces the Young Bucks at Fight for the Fallen, and Dustin accepts. I could have used a bit more emotion from Cody before he got to the point where he was ready to ask Dustin to be his tag team partner, as well as some sort of acknowledgement that Cody was in the wrong about just about everything in this feud.

BRET HART PRESENTS THE AEW WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP BELT- awesome segment!
He brings out Adam Page, but MJF decides to interrupt things. He cuts an utterly fantastic heel promo on Bret, Page, and the fans. He seems like he is going to attack but backs down when Page almost lands the first shot. Then Jungle Boy came out and MJF basically ignored him. Then Jimmy Havoc came out and MJF was scared. He soon found himself surrounded and tried to talk his way out of it, then took a shot at Jungle Boy but was over quickly overwhelmed. Page tossed him into the crowd, then ordered the other two eject him from the building and they did. Watching other wrestlers play lackey to a member of the Elite was not a good look. I think this would have worked better without Jungle Boy’s presence, and if MJF had just run off through the crowd on his own when Jimmy Havoc appeared. It gets Havoc over better because he scared the heel off on his own, MJF gets to keep his heat instead of being embarrassed and Jungle Boy would avoid looking like the lackey punk he looked like here. It felt like the only reason he was out here was so Excalibur could plug that he is Luke Perry’s son.

AAA WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Young Bucks(c) vs. Lucha Brothers- 9.5/10
Knox instructs them to “keep this match clean,” and, shockingly, they did. This match started out telling something of a story about the Bucks possibly having some ring rust and thus their timing being off and accidentally bumping into each other. They managed to shake that off and from then on this pretty much just became a “MOVEZ” match, but they took the Dragon vs. Punk Over The Limit 2012 approach of peppering in moves that reference friends from their indy days who aren’t able to be here, so that at least some of the MOVEZ had more meaning behind them. They also definitely upped their game and came up with some new stuff to do, which is always nice. The final part of the match was about the Lucha Brothers working over Matt’s arm. This was kept short by necessity, as you can’t do the arm-snapper move and then keep going for ten minutes. They did a great job of imbuing that final Meltzer Driver with the feeling that this was the Bucks’ last chance to win the match.

WINNER FACES ADAM PAGE TO DETERMINE THE FIRST-EVER AEW WORLD CHAMPION: Kenny Omega vs. Chris Jericho- 9/10
If you want to use gimmicks in your match, just make it a no DQs match! Don’t tell me it’s a regular match, then fight on the outside forever and hit each other with weapons!
That out of the way, these two had the epic match you would expect. There was blood, scary bumps lots of emption, and epic struggles to go for finishers. Other than that one spot where it looked like Jericho DDTed Omega but Jericho was the one selling and Omega went for the pin going wrong, I’m not sure what else one could have asked for. Jericho won with the Judas Effect.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- excellent
Jericho cut a great promo taking credit for all of AEW’s success and demanding that AEW thank him. Instead he got Jon Moxley coming out of the crowd and laying him out with Dirty Deeds. Then Moxley hit AEW Senior Referee Paul Turner with the move, too, just because he’s crazy like that. He then took a good long while before getting around to Kenny Omega, during which I was baffled that no security came out to apprehend this man who had jumped the guardrail and attacked a wrestler and a referee. Moxley’s antics gave Omega enough time to recover and block the moves by charging forward and sending them both tumbling to the floor. They brawled into the crowd and over to the stage where they battled onto some big poker chips that were set up, creating a nice raised platform for everyone to see Moxley hit Omega with Dirty Deeds on. Then Moxley AAed Omega off of the poker chips, down onto a section of the stage that, if it was gimmicked, they did a FANTASTIC job of hiding it.


This was a FANTASTIC show from AEW. Easily a Show of the Year Candidate (probably right up in the top two with TakeOver: New York, and easily eliminating otherwise-worthy candidates like theTakeOver: Phoenix, WrestleKingdom XIII, and ROH’s 17th Anniversary Show from contention. It will also likely go down as one of the most important shows in wrestling history. Production-wise things were very good, even though two or three highly questionable decisions were made (like a random cut in the middle of Omega vs. Jericho to what I have to believe was the only fan in the building who looked completely bored). While they did have some set-dressing, it was not the garishly overboard WWE style, and their big set piece (the aforementioned giant poker chips) did wind up serving a booking purpose, so they definitely deserve credit for that.
As far as the commentary went... I could do without Jim Ross. He didn’t add much at all, and at times did detract a bit. Marvez didn’t add much, either. In terms of saying things that were actually useful, Excalibur did at least 80% of the work himself. I don’t know who I would pair him with (assuming Lenny Leonard, Nick Aldis, and Don Callis all aren’t options available to AEW), but I definitely think they should try to find someone other than Ross or Marvez.
Anyway, this was a fantastic show and everyone should go watch it. The wrestling rocked, the atmosphere was mostly pretty great, the show was mostly booked well, and if you don’t you’ll be kicking yourself in ten years for missing the chance to live a crucial moment in wrestling history.



STUPID ANNOUNCER QUOTES:
1. Ross called the OWE wrestlers Chinese instead of Japanese.

2. Jim Ross (before the tag title match)- “We have two sets of brothers in this match here. Not traditional pro wrestling brothers; they actually have the same mom and dad.”
First of all, you’d think someone with opinions as proudly old-school as JR’s wouldn’t sh*t on kayfabe for absolutely no reason. Secondly, what does it matter if they’re shoot brothers or not? The half-sibling relationship between Bubba and Devon is just as kayfabe real as the relationship between Matt and Nick. Bo Dallas and Bray Wyatt are shoot brothers, but they’re not kayfabe brothers. Fenix and Penta El 0M might be shoot brothers, and while that is the kayfabe truth in AEW and many other promotions, in the universe of Lucha Underground, they’re not related at all. JR’s statement here is no different than Russo-esque worked-shoot bullsh*t. Telling us “other things are fake but this one is real” does not make this one feel any more real; it just makes everything else feel more fake.

[NWK2000]

BRET HART PRESENTS THE AEW WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP BELT- awesome segment!
Watching other wrestlers play lackey to a member of the Elite was not a good look. I think this would have worked better without Jungle Boy’s presence, and if MJF had just run off through the crowd on his own when Jimmy Havoc appeared. It gets Havoc over better because he scared the heel off on his own, MJF gets to keep his heat instead of being embarrassed and Jungle Boy would avoid looking like the lackey punk he looked like here. It felt like the only reason he was out here was so Excalibur could plug that he is Luke Perry’s son.

While you aren't wrong about the Jungle Boy or Jimmy Havoc piece, I chose to look at it not as "Jungle Boy and Jimmy Havoc were lackies for a member of the Elite" but "MJF was being a dick and other wrestlers didn't like it, and wanted Adam to have his moment". Plus, it sets up a feud between MJF and Jimmy because MJF can come back hot at him for emasculating him (as well as a mini-feud for MJF vs Jungle Boy for the same reason, but that would obviously be the preamble to MJF vs Havoc)

STUPID ANNOUNCER QUOTES:
1. Ross called the OWE wrestlers Chinese instead of Japanese.

Didn't bother me that much. Likely they're all living in China, and have for some time, so they might as well be Chinese. Plus we have plenty of Japanese people on the card already so that gives Stronghearts something unique to hang their hat on

[cero2k]

'Show of the Year" contender is a pretty high praise for someone who obviously came in wanting to hate the show.

[Big Red Machine]

'Show of the Year" contender is a pretty high praise for someone who obviously came in wanting to hate the show.

What makes you think I came in wanting to hate the show? I call out bullsh*t when I see it, but I don't go into a show wanting to hate it. If there had been more crap like the librarians I would have liked the show a lot less, but instead of giving me things to be negative about, they gave me things to be positive about. It's the same approach I take to every promotion.

[cero2k]

'Show of the Year" contender is a pretty high praise for someone who obviously came in wanting to hate the show.

What makes you think I came in wanting to hate the show? I call out bullsh*t when I see it, but I don't go into a show wanting to hate it. If there had been more crap like the librarians I would have liked the show a lot less, but instead of giving me things to be negative about, they gave me things to be positive about. It's the same approach I take to every promotion.

if it's not your intention, that's how it comes off. i'm not saying you have to like it, but you're also shitting on everything and not in an analytical way. Your opinion had an over-looming negativity to what everyone tried to do and the fans for liking it.

You shit on Sadie Gibbs' vignette for no reason, it's just a vignette of her doing athletic stuff, which is what she does, and "so what?" show me any other woman in TV doing the moves she does, and even if you find anyone, why does she have to be unique? she has made a name for herself, the fans recognize her, and is being introduced, how does that vignette warrant shit?

You haven't really expressed that you followed BTE and Road to DON ever, and yet you're shitting on the Matt/Nakazawa skit, the librarians, SCU doing the intro they always do everywhere, which thousands of other wrestlers/teams/stables have been doing forever in wrestling. You shit on Cody for being bitter, but you come off equally as bitter at him for being successful despite you hating him and his wrestling.

[Big Red Machine]

'Show of the Year" contender is a pretty high praise for someone who obviously came in wanting to hate the show.

What makes you think I came in wanting to hate the show? I call out bullsh*t when I see it, but I don't go into a show wanting to hate it. If there had been more crap like the librarians I would have liked the show a lot less, but instead of giving me things to be negative about, they gave me things to be positive about. It's the same approach I take to every promotion.

if it's not your intention, that's how it comes off. i'm not saying you have to like it, but you're also shitting on everything and not in an analytical way. Your opinion had an over-looming negativity to what everyone tried to do and the fans for liking it.

You shit on Sadie Gibbs' vignette for no reason, it's just a vignette of her doing athletic stuff, which is what she does, and "so what?" show me any other woman in TV doing the moves she does, and even if you find anyone, why does she have to be unique? she has made a name for herself, the fans recognize her, and is being introduced, how does that vignette warrant shit?

That's just it right there. If the video had actually shown me her doing those cool moves, it would have been good. But it didn't. It was a generic video package that gave me- a viewer who has heard her name before and that's about it- no reason to care about her or be excited to see her.

You haven't really expressed that you followed BTE and Road to DON ever, and yet you're shitting on the Matt/Nakazawa skit, the librarians, SCU doing the intro they always do everywhere, which thousands of other wrestlers/teams/stables have been doing forever in wrestling. You shit on Cody for being bitter, but you come off equally as bitter at him for being successful despite you hating him and his wrestling.

They can't go around putting BTE stuff on this show and expecting people to not be confused by it. This is a supposed to be a launch for their new national wrestling promotion. Not everyone watching- and certainly not everyone in their target audience- watches BTE. I have seen some of BTE, and I find the librarian sh*t to be f*cking stupid. I was entirely serious when I asked why this is supposedly any better than the Usos and The Revival. The fact that they thought it was a good idea to devote time to that instead of giving it to Sabian and Guevara (who they themselves are telling me are two future stars of the wrestling business) shows extremely poor judgment.
I find it ridiculous to assume that Jackson and Nakazawa have never met before (especially when Jackson is an EVP of the company), and superkicking someone because of what is at worst a misunderstanding makes the Bucks look like assholes. There's no two ways around that. It's a heel thing to do.

I call the fans out because hypocrisy deserves to be called out. If you think I am applying a double standard about something, please tell me. The only way we'll ever notice our blind spots is if someone else points them out to us.

But tell me that you honestly believe that I'm wrong that 90% of the people who cheered Cody destroying that Hunter-throne aren't going to tune in to the next TakeOver and go gaga over it.

As for Cody, I call 'em like I see 'em. I will remind you that I was one of the few people who was happy when they first announced that Cody was coming to ROH. Everyone else shat on his stuff in EVOLVE and WCPW (especially the matches with ZSJ) and I was one of the few people standing up and saying "no, these are great."
Then he put on his magical Bullet Club shirt and the internet's attitude towards him changed overnight. I have praised Cody when I felt he deserved praise and criticized him when I felt he deserved criticism, just like I treat everyone else. I have no problem with Cody succeeding so long as he is putting on appropriate performances for his spot. But I'm also not going to stop criticizing his flaws, and overbooking, a completely schizophrenic face/heel alignment, and coming across like a living cartoon character are prominent among those.

[NWK2000]

That's just it right there. If the video had actually shown me her doing those cool moves, it would have been good. But it didn't. It was a generic video package that gave me- a viewer who has heard her name before and that's about it- no reason to care about her or be excited to see her.

Gotta agree here. This reminded me a lot of the NXT video packages where you don't really see a ton of impressive stuff, just people working out

I find it ridiculous to assume that Jackson and Nakazawa have never met before (especially when Jackson is an EVP of the company), and superkicking someone because of what is at worst a misunderstanding makes the Bucks look like assholes. There's no two ways around that. It's a heel thing to do.

AND, didn't Alex say something like "Nick Jackson is celebrating in the back" when he got eliminated

I call the fans out because hypocrisy deserves to be called out. If you think I am applying a double standard about something, please tell me. The only way we'll ever notice our blind spots is if someone else points them out to us.

But tell me that you honestly believe that I'm wrong that 90% of the people who cheered Cody destroying that Hunter-throne aren't going to tune in to the next TakeOver and go gaga over it.

As for Cody, I call 'em like I see 'em. I will remind you that I was one of the few people who was happy when they first announced that Cody was coming to ROH. Everyone else shat on his stuff in EVOLVE and WCPW (especially the matches with ZSJ) and I was one of the few people standing up and saying "no, these are great."
Then he put on his magical Bullet Club shirt and the internet's attitude towards him changed overnight. I have praised Cody when I felt he deserved praise and criticized him when I felt he deserved criticism, just like I treat everyone else. I have no problem with Cody succeeding so long as he is putting on appropriate performances for his spot. But I'm also not going to stop criticizing his flaws, and overbooking, a completely schizophrenic face/heel alignment, and coming across like a living cartoon character are prominent among those.

Fucking pipebomb right here. Also, bolded the part that I thought was especially on point. You've basically pointed out why I avoid the indies like the plague because it consists of a fanbase that if they aren't being catered to n their exact preferences, instead of actually analyzing matches that are good or are bad, they will turn on a wrestler IMMEDIATELY. And then they'll continue to watch and bitch.

[cero2k]

That's just it right there. If the video had actually shown me her doing those cool moves, it would have been good. But it didn't. It was a generic video package that gave me- a viewer who has heard her name before and that's about it- no reason to care about her or be excited to see her.

Well, I mean, if you don't think the Space Flying Tiger Drop is cool because apparently you know a bunch of women doing it, then cool. Eitherway, what you wrote here was actually a really good analysis, you've heard her name, but they didn't show anything that caught my attention, that is completely different from 'She can do athletic stuff and she works out. So what? Everyone else can do that at this point, too' that shits on her ability instead of the effectiveness of the vignette.

This went on all of the review. You shit on the wrestlers for doing their thing, not the execution of the show.

They can't go around putting BTE stuff on this show and expecting people to not be confused by it. This is a supposed to be a launch for their new national wrestling promotion. Not everyone watching- and certainly not everyone in their target audience- watches BTE. I have seen some of BTE, and I find the librarian sh*t to be f*cking stupid. I was entirely serious when I asked why this is supposedly any better than the Usos and The Revival. The fact that they thought it was a good idea to devote time to that instead of giving it to Sabian and Guevara (who they themselves are telling me are two future stars of the wrestling business) shows extremely poor judgment.
I find it ridiculous to assume that Jackson and Nakazawa have never met before (especially when Jackson is an EVP of the company), and superkicking someone because of what is at worst a misunderstanding makes the Bucks look like assholes. There's no two ways around that. It's a heel thing to do.

BTE and Road to Double or Nothing WAS their television to this show, this is like arguing because WWE is making me watch RAW or 205Live to understand the PPV stuff. Whether or not the audience watches it is irrelevant, that's their story driving mechanism and they can only hope and expect that everyone watches. Here you are shitting on the Matt/Nakazawa skit, having not followed what they've been doing on their build up. Or are you trying to judge kayfabe by the non-kayfabe reality?

If you don't find the comedy funny, that's perfectly ok, to each their own, but instead of saying that you don't like it, you went to point out 'why do you like this and not that?'. It seemed like you were out there trying to review what fans like or not and call them out on what they like.

And if you want my answer to that question. Simple, Avalon and Bates are comedy acts, Usos and Revival are not comedy acts, and I didn't think it was bad comedy, it's just a shitty joke to do because The Revival had expressed wanting to leave. There is a difference in doing comedy to make fun of people, and comedy to make the people laugh at the expense of the joke. The difference between a joke and a prank. Their previous joke I did think it was bad because it was homophobic.
And I do find Truth to be really funny. It cements him and everyone around him as geeks, but I do find HIM funny.

I call the fans out because hypocrisy deserves to be called out. If you think I am applying a double standard about something, please tell me. The only way we'll ever notice our blind spots is if someone else points them out to us.

But tell me that you honestly believe that I'm wrong that 90% of the people who cheered Cody destroying that Hunter-throne aren't going to tune in to the next TakeOver and go gaga over it.

You may be right about fans loving this stuff and then jizzing over Takerover next month, but at the end of the day, we don't really know if that is truth or not. Maybe there really is a disgruntled set of fans that don't watch WWE anymore, i mean, i'm one. I don't believe you have a double standard, mainly because aside from WWE, you don't really review other promotions that do bad stuff that you could call out on, but it does come off like you have a grudge against BC/BTE fans for a long while.

There is a lot of hypocrisy with wrestling fans. Same thing when everyone shits on Vince until he comes out on stage. But that is the wrestling fandom all over the place and arguably how most people are about everything. IMO, focusing on those things takes away from our actual analysis of the shows and people being fickle should neither improve or deter from a show. I always point out what stuff the people pop for or crap on, because i think it gives a good idea on what is over with the fans or not, but i'm not one to judge what they choose to like or not.

[cero2k]

Fucking pipebomb right here. Also, bolded the part that I thought was especially on point. You've basically pointed out why I avoid the indies like the plague because it consists of a fanbase that if they aren't being catered to n their exact preferences, instead of actually analyzing matches that are good or are bad, they will turn on a wrestler IMMEDIATELY. And then they'll continue to watch and bitch.

You are straight up describing the WWE Universe and not a single indie fanbase that i've seen, let alone japanese, Mexican, or from the UK.

[NWK2000]

Fucking pipebomb right here. Also, bolded the part that I thought was especially on point. You've basically pointed out why I avoid the indies like the plague because it consists of a fanbase that if they aren't being catered to n their exact preferences, instead of actually analyzing matches that are good or are bad, they will turn on a wrestler IMMEDIATELY. And then they'll continue to watch and bitch.

You are straight up describing the WWE Universe and not a single indie fanbase that i've seen, let alone japanese, Mexican, or from the UK.

Puro, lucha, and British fans fucking get it dude. They cheer the babyface and boo the heel. I'm speaking mostly of American Bullet Club fans, as BRM has described.

[Big Red Machine]

That's just it right there. If the video had actually shown me her doing those cool moves, it would have been good. But it didn't. It was a generic video package that gave me- a viewer who has heard her name before and that's about it- no reason to care about her or be excited to see her.

Well, I mean, if you don't think the Space Flying Tiger Drop is cool because apparently you know a bunch of women doing it, then cool. Eitherway, what you wrote here was actually a really good analysis, you've heard her name, but they didn't show anything that caught my attention, that is completely different from 'She can do athletic stuff and she works out. So what? Everyone else can do that at this point, too' that shits on her ability instead of the effectiveness of the vignette.

This went on all of the review. You shit on the wrestlers for doing their thing, not the execution of the show.

I actually don't find the Space Flying Tiger Drop to be particularly cool. I much prefer a simple but graceful give, like an awesome springboard senton or a perfect tope like Aries or Homicide,

And those are absolutely issues of execution. Good execution would have been a vignette that shows me what makes her stand out, not stuff that makes her look generic.

They can't go around putting BTE stuff on this show and expecting people to not be confused by it. This is a supposed to be a launch for their new national wrestling promotion. Not everyone watching- and certainly not everyone in their target audience- watches BTE. I have seen some of BTE, and I find the librarian sh*t to be f*cking stupid. I was entirely serious when I asked why this is supposedly any better than the Usos and The Revival. The fact that they thought it was a good idea to devote time to that instead of giving it to Sabian and Guevara (who they themselves are telling me are two future stars of the wrestling business) shows extremely poor judgment.
I find it ridiculous to assume that Jackson and Nakazawa have never met before (especially when Jackson is an EVP of the company), and superkicking someone because of what is at worst a misunderstanding makes the Bucks look like assholes. There's no two ways around that. It's a heel thing to do.

BTE and Road to Double or Nothing WAS their television to this show, this is like arguing because WWE is making me watch RAW or 205Live to understand the PPV stuff. Whether or not the audience watches it is irrelevant, that's their story driving mechanism and they can only hope and expect that everyone watches. Here you are shitting on the Matt/Nakazawa skit, having not followed what they've been doing on their build up. Or are you trying to judge kayfabe by the non-kayfabe reality?

There is an issue of scope here. WWE is an established brand. AEW needs to treat themselves like ROH first treated themselves when they got on the PPVs. You need to catch people up. And even WWE airs video packages before each PPV match to make sure you understand the things you need to understand going into each match.

If you don't find the comedy funny, that's perfectly ok, to each their own, but instead of saying that you don't like it, you went to point out 'why do you like this and not that?'. It seemed like you were out there trying to review what fans like or not and call them out on what they like.

Because I find the criticism of WWE's comedy coming from BTE fans to be hypocritical. WWE's comedy is "juvenile" or "insults your intelligence" but this doesn't? And it's not limited to AEW, either. Why is Disco inferno doing a misogyny gimmick and wanting to win the women's title okay in TNA, but WWE doing it with James Ellsworth is stupid?

I call the fans out because hypocrisy deserves to be called out. If you think I am applying a double standard about something, please tell me. The only way we'll ever notice our blind spots is if someone else points them out to us.

But tell me that you honestly believe that I'm wrong that 90% of the people who cheered Cody destroying that Hunter-throne aren't going to tune in to the next TakeOver and go gaga over it.

You may be right about fans loving this stuff and then jizzing over Takerover next month, but at the end of the day, we don't really know if that is truth or not. Maybe there really is a disgruntled set of fans that don't watch WWE anymore, i mean, i'm one. I don't believe you have a double standard, mainly because aside from WWE, you don't really review other promotions that do bad stuff that you could call out on, but it does come off like you have a grudge against BC/BTE fans for a long while.

There is a lot of hypocrisy with wrestling fans. Same thing when everyone shits on Vince until he comes out on stage. But that is the wrestling fandom all over the place and arguably how most people are about everything. IMO, focusing on those things takes away from our actual analysis of the shows and people being fickle should neither improve or deter from a show. I always point out what stuff the people pop for or crap on, because i think it gives a good idea on what is over with the fans or not, but i'm not one to judge what they choose to like or not.
[/quote]
Don't review other bad promotions? I spent years with TNA, and have reviewed almost every ROH show for years.
My beef with those fans is the hypocrisy. Ditto with people who defend Gedo and Delirious' poor storytelling and all other manner of things. A cult-ish TNA Mecca/pick a WWE mark board-esque culture has popped up, and I think that deserves to be called out. We'd call out a crowd for chanting something racist or homophobic, wouldn't we? And no one would say that takes away from the analysis of the show.

And in this particular case, it very much was a planned part of the show. Cody knew exactly the reaction he would get. AEW has made taking shots at WWE part of their thing, and I'm tired of them getting away with it because people like their stuff (as opposed to, say when TNA did it and people said it made them look low-class) but when WWE responds, people jump on them.
I think some of these people (particularly Cody and the Bucks) have a pettiness about them that they just can't help but inject into their wrestling show because they know it will get pops, no matter whether it's good for the match (the Bucks with the sledgehammer at Final Battle) or the overall look of the promotion (Cody tonight) or not. And we've seen that sink wrestling products before.

[Big Red Machine]

Fucking pipebomb right here. Also, bolded the part that I thought was especially on point. You've basically pointed out why I avoid the indies like the plague because it consists of a fanbase that if they aren't being catered to n their exact preferences, instead of actually analyzing matches that are good or are bad, they will turn on a wrestler IMMEDIATELY. And then they'll continue to watch and bitch.

You are straight up describing the WWE Universe and not a single indie fanbase that i've seen, let alone japanese, Mexican, or from the UK.

This comes across a lot more like the WWE fanbase to me, too. I think certain indy and puro fanbases are the opposite and way too forgiving/positive/unwilling to call out their promotions when they make mistakes.

The CHIKARA fanbase, though (or at least the parts of it I've been lurking in), deserves props for being fantastic. English-speaking wXw fans and OTT fans, too.

[cero2k]

Puro, lucha, and British fans fucking get it dude. They cheer the babyface and boo the heel. I'm speaking mostly of American Bullet Club fans, as BRM has described.

if you're talking that specifically, cheering faces and booing heels, then no one does that, and they have never done it. Mexico's Porra Ruda is as big, if not bigger than the Tecnico fanbase. Japan LOVES Suzuki, and Takayama, and LIJ. Old school fans LOVED Flair and the Freebirds for a reason.

I'll never understand why you guys are fixated on booing heels as a rule. People identify with heels too.

This comes across a lot more like the WWE fanbase to me, too. I think certain indy and puro fanbases are the opposite and way too forgiving/positive/unwilling to call out their promotions when they make mistakes.

depends on the mistakes, some people, especially live, just want to watch and enjoy a show with a rule book in their hands

[cero2k]

I actually don't find the Space Flying Tiger Drop to be particularly cool. I much prefer a simple but graceful give, like an awesome springboard senton or a perfect tope like Aries or Homicide,

And those are absolutely issues of execution. Good execution would have been a vignette that shows me what makes her stand out, not stuff that makes her look generic.

dude, you have to tell me what promotion you're following that makes Sadie Gibbs's moveset look generic. I need more flippy women's wrestling.

There is an issue of scope here. WWE is an established brand. AEW needs to treat themselves like ROH first treated themselves when they got on the PPVs. You need to catch people up. And even WWE airs video packages before each PPV match to make sure you understand the things you need to understand going into each match.

BTE is pretty established, especially with their fanbase. You want to make that argument when they debut on TV, sure, i'll agree with it, but everyone who went or bought DON, knew about BTE and Road to DON.

Because I find the criticism of WWE's comedy coming from BTE fans to be hypocritical. WWE's comedy is "juvenile" or "insults your intelligence" but this doesn't? And it's not limited to AEW, either. Why is Disco inferno doing a misogyny gimmick and wanting to win the women's title okay in TNA, but WWE doing it with James Ellsworth is stupid?

For many different reasons, it's all about context, and like I said, everyone has their own favorite flavor of comedy. WWE booked Ellsworth to win the MITB DURING the #womensrevolution, Impact isn't trying to sell you that they invented women's rights. WWE does comedy with their serious acts, that's part of the reason why Amrbrose quit, do you expect him to do comedy in AEW? not likely. WWE straight up introduced a comedy championship. I have only ever seen a comedy championship in DDT, and that's a company with a huge fucking panda.

and for that matter, the 'insults your intelligence" is mostly used for actual booking decisions were WWE re-writes their own history.

Don't review other bad promotions? I spent years with TNA, and have reviewed almost every ROH show for years.
My beef with those fans is the hypocrisy. Ditto with people who defend Gedo and Delirious' poor storytelling and all other manner of things. A cult-ish TNA Mecca/pick a WWE mark board-esque culture has popped up, and I think that deserves to be called out. We'd call out a crowd for chanting something racist or homophobic, wouldn't we? And no one would say that takes away from the analysis of the show.

there is a big difference between making a comment about a bad chant, and pretty much making full sections shitting on fans for the things they like. And people not being extremely analytical with storytelling as you are doesn't make them hypocrites for liking Gedo or Delirious or Hunter or Vince, don't assume that everyone watches wrestling like you do.

And in this particular case, it very much was a planned part of the show. Cody knew exactly the reaction he would get. AEW has made taking shots at WWE part of their thing, and I'm tired of them getting away with it because people like their stuff (as opposed to, say when TNA did it and people said it made them look low-class) but when WWE responds, people jump on them.
I think some of these people (particularly Cody and the Bucks) have a pettiness about them that they just can't help but inject into their wrestling show because they know it will get pops, no matter whether it's good for the match (the Bucks with the sledgehammer at Final Battle) or the overall look of the promotion (Cody tonight) or not. And we've seen that sink wrestling products before.

Then they will sink. This is a business of giving the fans what they want, and if the fans popped for it here, then it only benefits AEW, and you know what, if they keep doing it over and over and over, it's gonna get tiredsome and people are gonna turn on them. If they planned something, executed it, and got the exact reaction they expected, then that is a group of bookers that actually know their audience, and if someone doesn't want to support their pettiness, then they don't have to.

[NWK2000]

I'll never understand why you guys are fixated on booing heels as a rule. People identify with heels too.

But at least they'll pick a babyface in terms of what's going on in the match and cheer accordingly instead of shitting on what's presented.

[Big Red Machine]

Puro, lucha, and British fans fucking get it dude. They cheer the babyface and boo the heel. I'm speaking mostly of American Bullet Club fans, as BRM has described.

if you're talking that specifically, cheering faces and booing heels, then no one does that, and they have never done it. Mexico's Porra Ruda is as big, if not bigger than the Tecnico fanbase. Japan LOVES Suzuki, and Takayama, and LIJ. Old school fans LOVED Flair and the Freebirds for a reason.

I'll never understand why you guys are fixated on booing heels as a rule. People identify with heels too.

My issue is not so much with booing heels as it is with something like popping when a referee gets bumped by then booing when the heel cheats or the babyface gets a visual pinfall or whatever. Stuff that makes me shout "well what the hell did you think was going to happen?!" Or a crowd that cheers a heel cheating, but then also cheers when a babyface kicks out of the small package after the nut-shot. I really just want people to pick one wrestler/team per match and stick to it.

This comes across a lot more like the WWE fanbase to me, too. I think certain indy and puro fanbases are the opposite and way too forgiving/positive/unwilling to call out their promotions when they make mistakes.

depends on the mistakes, some people, especially live, just want to watch and enjoy a show with a rule book in their hands

There's watching the show without a rule-book in your hands, and then there are ignoring blatant and obvious violations of the rules like abusing referees and using weapons and stuff like that. If you want to have relaxed rules, then just have the ring announcer tell me that in the beginning. That's all I ask.

[Big Red Machine]

I actually don't find the Space Flying Tiger Drop to be particularly cool. I much prefer a simple but graceful give, like an awesome springboard senton or a perfect tope like Aries or Homicide,

And those are absolutely issues of execution. Good execution would have been a vignette that shows me what makes her stand out, not stuff that makes her look generic.

dude, you have to tell me what promotion you're following that makes Sadie Gibbs's moveset look generic. I need more flippy women's wrestling.

None. I just don't find flippy wrestling impressive, regardless of gender. I've seen enough flips in my life.

There is an issue of scope here. WWE is an established brand. AEW needs to treat themselves like ROH first treated themselves when they got on the PPVs. You need to catch people up. And even WWE airs video packages before each PPV match to make sure you understand the things you need to understand going into each match.

BTE is pretty established, especially with their fanbase. You want to make that argument when they debut on TV, sure, i'll agree with it, but everyone who went or bought DON, knew about BTE and Road to DON.

Did they? TNT plugged it during an NBA play-off game, and they streamed it live on Bleacher Report. And surely there were some people who had heard so much about this AEW stuff from their friends that they finally decided to check it out. You can't go into a show operating under the assumption that everyone watching knows everything.
Also, according to Keller, BTE average viewership has dropped about 100,000 over the past year, so there might be some people coming back who aren't caught up.

Because I find the criticism of WWE's comedy coming from BTE fans to be hypocritical. WWE's comedy is "juvenile" or "insults your intelligence" but this doesn't? And it's not limited to AEW, either. Why is Disco inferno doing a misogyny gimmick and wanting to win the women's title okay in TNA, but WWE doing it with James Ellsworth is stupid?

For many different reasons, it's all about context, and like I said, everyone has their own favorite flavor of comedy. WWE booked Ellsworth to win the MITB DURING the #womensrevolution, Impact isn't trying to sell you that they invented women's rights. WWE does comedy with their serious acts, that's part of the reason why Amrbrose quit, do you expect him to do comedy in AEW? not likely. WWE straight up introduced a comedy championship. I have only ever seen a comedy championship in DDT, and that's a company with a huge fucking panda.

and for that matter, the 'insults your intelligence" is mostly used for actual booking decisions were WWE re-writes their own history.

WWE didn't book Ellsworth to win, they booked him to help Carmella win. That wasn't intended to be comedy. It was intended to be heat, just like TNA's is.

WWE introduced a comedy championship to make the network happy. Other places have done some comedy with their serious acts from time to time as well. It's just a matter of how you do the comedy. Look at the segment from ROH Race to the Top Tournament: Night 2 where Dragon and Nigel are picking their teams, and tell me that's not comedy, with the top babyface and top tweener.
I think there is a huge difference between farce (which is what these librarians or a lot of WWE stuff, or any time you have guys doing sh*t like dropping kayfabe in the middle of a match, or just blatantly breaking rules for the sake of doing a comedy spot) and what I'll call "organic" comedy, which springs organically from the premise that this is a competition and people are trying to win (Omega vs. Yano from the G1 a few years ago is probably the single best example of this). I don't like the 24/7 Title, but at least it doens't forget the premise of the show. it's comedy for the sake of comedy, yes, but it fits in the with the world, as opposed to introducing characters whose sole kayfabe purpose appears to be enabling comedy segments.

Don't review other bad promotions? I spent years with TNA, and have reviewed almost every ROH show for years.
My beef with those fans is the hypocrisy. Ditto with people who defend Gedo and Delirious' poor storytelling and all other manner of things. A cult-ish TNA Mecca/pick a WWE mark board-esque culture has popped up, and I think that deserves to be called out. We'd call out a crowd for chanting something racist or homophobic, wouldn't we? And no one would say that takes away from the analysis of the show.

there is a big difference between making a comment about a bad chant, and pretty much making full sections shitting on fans for the things they like. And people not being extremely analytical with storytelling as you are doesn't make them hypocrites for liking Gedo or Delirious or Hunter or Vince, don't assume that everyone watches wrestling like you do.

What makes people hypocrites isn't not liking the things I like. It's disliking one thing, but then not applying the same standards of criticism to something they do like. And that's what I see with the people gushing over the "storytelling" from Gedo or the Bullet Club Civil War or ROH. The people who liked these things are the same people crapping on WWE and the same people who crapped on TNA for the same reasons. That's what I have a problem with.
And I do think that applies to something like popping for Cody destroying the Hunter-throne here. Don't cheer like Hunter's the villain and then go gush about how much you love his stuff and he's the savior of WWE now.

And in this particular case, it very much was a planned part of the show. Cody knew exactly the reaction he would get. AEW has made taking shots at WWE part of their thing, and I'm tired of them getting away with it because people like their stuff (as opposed to, say when TNA did it and people said it made them look low-class) but when WWE responds, people jump on them.
I think some of these people (particularly Cody and the Bucks) have a pettiness about them that they just can't help but inject into their wrestling show because they know it will get pops, no matter whether it's good for the match (the Bucks with the sledgehammer at Final Battle) or the overall look of the promotion (Cody tonight) or not. And we've seen that sink wrestling products before.

Then they will sink. This is a business of giving the fans what they want, and if the fans popped for it here, then it only benefits AEW, and you know what, if they keep doing it over and over and over, it's gonna get tiredsome and people are gonna turn on them. If they planned something, executed it, and got the exact reaction they expected, then that is a group of bookers that actually know their audience, and if someone doesn't want to support their pettiness, then they don't have to.

That's fair. But I think it's perfectly fair game to call such things out in a review from the get-go because these were recurring problems other places (WCW, TNA, CZW, and even ROH at times) and are the sort of lesson that everyone talks about any new competitor for WWE needing to learn so that they don't repeat the same mistakes.

[cero2k]

None. I just don't find flippy wrestling impressive, regardless of gender. I've seen enough flips in my life.

so there's none and you still call her generic.

Did they? TNT plugged it during an NBA play-off game, and they streamed it live on Bleacher Report. And surely there were some people who had heard so much about this AEW stuff from their friends that they finally decided to check it out. You can't go into a show operating under the assumption that everyone watching knows everything.
Also, according to Keller, BTE average viewership has dropped about 100,000 over the past year, so there might be some people coming back who aren't caught up.

As much as I wish they had, I highly doubt that anyone that saw the ads during the NBA finals bought a $50 ppv. Likewise, it doesn't take much to get caught up with youtube videos for a big PPV, they don't even need to watch matches. Surely you can't assume that everyone knows everything, and thus there were video packages for the big matches, you had Marvez talking storylines and Excalibur talking history, and at the end, you also can have stuff that will make fans say "i'm gonna go back and rewatch blah blah".
This was a show that was sold to the cult and from all live reports, everyone was into everything, people reacted positively to the librarians, Orange Cassidy, and stuff like that. That sounds like a success. We can't treat this show assuming that AEW TV is going to be like this nor that this is the show that is going to drive people to TV because we're months away. Like I said, once TV starts, they won't book BTE and if they do they'll sink

WWE didn't book Ellsworth to win, they booked him to help Carmella win. That wasn't intended to be comedy. It was intended to be heat, just like TNA's is.

WWE introduced a comedy championship to make the network happy. Other places have done some comedy with their serious acts from time to time as well. It's just a matter of how you do the comedy. Look at the segment from ROH Race to the Top Tournament: Night 2 where Dragon and Nigel are picking their teams, and tell me that's not comedy, with the top babyface and top tweener.

I think there is a huge difference between farce (which is what these librarians or a lot of WWE stuff, or any time you have guys doing sh*t like dropping kayfabe in the middle of a match, or just blatantly breaking rules for the sake of doing a comedy spot) and what I'll call "organic" comedy, which springs organically from the premise that this is a competition and people are trying to win (Omega vs. Yano from the G1 a few years ago is probably the single best example of this). I don't like the 24/7 Title, but at least it doens't forget the premise of the show. it's comedy for the sake of comedy, yes, but it fits in the with the world, as opposed to introducing characters whose sole kayfabe purpose appears to be enabling comedy segments.

again, the difference is that WWE booked Ellsworth to be the one to take the briefcase not only during the #Women'sRevolution, but on the history making first ever Women's MITB. It's not hypocrisy to judge them differently because the context is completely different.
Dude, the comedy from Dragon and Nigel is like the New Yorker compared to pancakes and Usy-Hot that is like Family Guy, it's just not the same that your top starts say something funny or interact with a comedy wrestler, and then having your serious tag team Revival do all that shit they've been doing to bury them. And i'm not saying that the librarians is good comedy, but you're making out to be like this thing that is so terrible is going to destroy the promotion. it's no different from other wacky wrestling characters and we don't even know where it's going

What makes people hypocrites isn't not liking the things I like. It's disliking one thing, but then not applying the same standards of criticism to something they do like. And that's what I see with the people gushing over the "storytelling" from Gedo or the Bullet Club Civil War or ROH. The people who liked these things are the same people crapping on WWE and the same people who crapped on TNA for the same reasons. That's what I have a problem with.
And I do think that applies to something like popping for Cody destroying the Hunter-throne here. Don't cheer like Hunter's the villain and then go gush about how much you love his stuff and he's the savior of WWE now.

I think your making a big assumption that it really is all the same people loving hunter one day and hating wwe the other. You may be right, and you also may be completely wrong. and likewise, it is completely understandable to gush over Gedo storytelling and not WWE because like I said, not everyone is going to hawkeye every single detail and inconsistency as you do. there are waay to many reasons why someone may like/dislike a story other than inconsistencies.
If we can use the Omega vs Okada 4 match, you're level of detail meant that you gave it an 8, while the rest of the world saw the big picture instead and saw the greatest match of their lives. If anything else, this is something that shows that WWE's inconsistencies are so big and open, that even those people catch them

[Big Red Machine]

None. I just don't find flippy wrestling impressive, regardless of gender. I've seen enough flips in my life.

so there's none and you still call her generic.

I'm saying, give me a reason to care about her. Tell me who she is. This video package showed her doing nothing that I didn't see from multiple wrestlers on the card tonight.

Did they? TNT plugged it during an NBA play-off game, and they streamed it live on Bleacher Report. And surely there were some people who had heard so much about this AEW stuff from their friends that they finally decided to check it out. You can't go into a show operating under the assumption that everyone watching knows everything.
Also, according to Keller, BTE average viewership has dropped about 100,000 over the past year, so there might be some people coming back who aren't caught up.

As much as I wish they had, I highly doubt that anyone that saw the ads during the NBA finals bought a $50 ppv. Likewise, it doesn't take much to get caught up with youtube videos for a big PPV, they don't even need to watch matches. Surely you can't assume that everyone knows everything, and thus there were video packages for the big matches, you had Marvez talking storylines and Excalibur talking history, and at the end, you also can have stuff that will make fans say "i'm gonna go back and rewatch blah blah".
This was a show that was sold to the cult and from all live reports, everyone was into everything, people reacted positively to the librarians, Orange Cassidy, and stuff like that. That sounds like a success. We can't treat this show assuming that AEW TV is going to be like this nor that this is the show that is going to drive people to TV because we're months away. Like I said, once TV starts, they won't book BTE and if they do they'll sink

But if someone did see the TNT plug and decided to check out the pre-show and saw this stuff and was totally lost then when you try to sell that person on Fyter Fest or All Out or the first TV show, you run the risk of them saying "I already tried it and didn't like it."

And if you're going to use the "we can't assume the TV will be like this" argument, then you have to apply that to the good stuff as well and you can't get all giddy about match quality. Even that promo segment with MJF was long as hell.

WWE didn't book Ellsworth to win, they booked him to help Carmella win. That wasn't intended to be comedy. It was intended to be heat, just like TNA's is.

WWE introduced a comedy championship to make the network happy. Other places have done some comedy with their serious acts from time to time as well. It's just a matter of how you do the comedy. Look at the segment from ROH Race to the Top Tournament: Night 2 where Dragon and Nigel are picking their teams, and tell me that's not comedy, with the top babyface and top tweener.

I think there is a huge difference between farce (which is what these librarians or a lot of WWE stuff, or any time you have guys doing sh*t like dropping kayfabe in the middle of a match, or just blatantly breaking rules for the sake of doing a comedy spot) and what I'll call "organic" comedy, which springs organically from the premise that this is a competition and people are trying to win (Omega vs. Yano from the G1 a few years ago is probably the single best example of this). I don't like the 24/7 Title, but at least it doens't forget the premise of the show. it's comedy for the sake of comedy, yes, but it fits in the with the world, as opposed to introducing characters whose sole kayfabe purpose appears to be enabling comedy segments.

again, the difference is that WWE booked Ellsworth to be the one to take the briefcase not only during the #Women'sRevolution, but on the history making first ever Women's MITB. It's not hypocrisy to judge them differently because the context is completely different.

I'm not talking about Ellsworth grabbing the briefcase. That was never intended to be comedy. I'm talking about Ellsworth five months later and the angle that led to his quick exit, where he decided to be a sexist and try to win the women's title. That's not hypocritical at all because the sexist is getting made to look like a buffoon. I don't think it's productive in any way (which is why I didn't like it, and didn't like the Disco Inferno stuff, either), but it's not hypocritical.

Dude, the comedy from Dragon and Nigel is like the New Yorker compared to pancakes and Usy-Hot that is like Family Guy, it's just not the same that your top starts say something funny or interact with a comedy wrestler, and then having your serious tag team Revival do all that shit they've been doing to bury them. And i'm not saying that the librarians is good comedy, but you're making out to be like this thing that is so terrible is going to destroy the promotion. it's no different from other wacky wrestling characters and we don't even know where it's going

That's my point. The "the do comedy with their top guys" knock is unfair because it's the type of comedy that matters. I'll bet you that someone out there thought Ambrose's inoculation promo and the Usy-Hot were funny, too.
I find those stupid, but not intelligence-insulting. What I find intelligence-insulting is the stuff the Bucks have done where they go from serious match to farcical comedy and then want me to take the match seriously again and care about the babyface in peril five minutes later when they've just exposed to me that it's all a work, just so they could stick a random joke in.

What makes people hypocrites isn't not liking the things I like. It's disliking one thing, but then not applying the same standards of criticism to something they do like. And that's what I see with the people gushing over the "storytelling" from Gedo or the Bullet Club Civil War or ROH. The people who liked these things are the same people crapping on WWE and the same people who crapped on TNA for the same reasons. That's what I have a problem with.
And I do think that applies to something like popping for Cody destroying the Hunter-throne here. Don't cheer like Hunter's the villain and then go gush about how much you love his stuff and he's the savior of WWE now.

I think your making a big assumption that it really is all the same people loving hunter one day and hating wwe the other. You may be right, and you also may be completely wrong. and likewise, it is completely understandable to gush over Gedo storytelling and not WWE because like I said, not everyone is going to hawkeye every single detail and inconsistency as you do. there are waay to many reasons why someone may like/dislike a story other than inconsistencies.
If we can use the Omega vs Okada 4 match, you're level of detail meant that you gave it an 8, while the rest of the world saw the big picture instead and saw the greatest match of their lives. If anything else, this is something that shows that WWE's inconsistencies are so big and open, that even those people catch them

I think the odds of the AEW crowd being composed of even 50% people who don't go gaga over NXT are pretty darn low.


And I didn't give Omega vs. Okada 4 (you're talking about the one where Okada wins the title, right?) an 8. I gave it a 9.75, which is a special rating I reserve for matches that would be perfect 10s but for one or two nits and "perfect" means "perfect" so I'm not going to overlook that no matter how much I like the wrestlers or the match. I have set a standard and I stick to it.

When it comes to things like Gedo's booking or the Bullet Club Civil War or a lot of Delirious' stuff, I don't think people apply the same level of scrutiny that they apply to WWE or TNA. After so many rounds of bitching about champions doing jobs in WWE and it not leading to anything, I don't think "if Omega just pinned the IWGP Heavyweight Champion in the G1 then why is he not getting a title shot?" is that hard a question to come across, especially when all of the other people who pinned champions in the G1 are getting title shots.
I don't think it should be that hard for someone to see the Bucks clearly intend to kick Cody out at SCOH but then after the match they go right back to not having their minds and Cody doesn't act like this was then clearly siding with Kenny over him. But that happened and everyone was saying "of course it makes sense that Kenny is angry at the Bucks because the kick they meant for Cody caused him to lose! Boy, this sure is a great story!"

"Why is it wrong when Jay White does it but not when Yano does it?" is not a question someone should need to be a philosophy major to ask themselves.

If you're going to complain about wins and losses not mattering in WWE then you should be complaining about it in ROH, too, with people getting title shots for no reason while the undefeated guy gets shoved in a #1 contendership match against several wrestlers he has already beaten.

And before you say it, yes, you are right that I don't have evidence that too many individuals are actually guilty of this, but I think the fact that these issues were not even part of the general discussion on the topics around the IWC even though they are when WWE does similar means that enough of the same people aren't applying the same scrutiny.