Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

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Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Aug 31st, '18, 10:21

Impact Wresting ReDefined
August 30, 2018
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

ReDefined Cold Opening - Great stuff. Big take out is that Moose cut a promo saying that Aries gave him a concussion on their title match and thus had been missing.

X-Division Championship Match
"Weapon X" Brian Cage (C) vs Fenix w/Pentagon Jr - 7.5/10
This was the smaller flippy Fenix vs the huge Cage, both pulling off some extremely athletic spots, Fenix having a slight speed advantage, but not by a lot. They went back and forward from the start of the match, but they gave Fenix more offense at first since we have to believe that most of Cage's offense can put you down, but later on, Cage had some offense to show you that Fenix doesn't just give up. Way too many spots to call them all, but the finish was a top rope powerbomb for the pin. Great opener, lots of great action.

Post-match - OVE run down the ramp and attack Pentagon and Fenix. Cage hints not helping the Lucha Bros, but he has second thoughts, returns to the ring, and clears the ring. Cage and the Lucha Bros stand tall together at the end.

Fans are chanting "We Want Jericho" and Josh and Callis acknowledged it.

Scarlett Bordeaux Arrives - Parking security won't allow Bobo to get in, Scarlett makes things happen.

GWN Moment of the Week - It was Drew Galloway's debut. I had totally forgotten what great shape Al Snow was during his Grado feud.

OGz Promo - Prior to the promo, Josh gave us an update on that LAX kid, now called Richie, that got ran over by OGz, well, he's going to make a full recovery. Cool

In their clubhouse, Hernandez is being all wimpy about running over a kid. King tells them they need to toughen up. King gets a phone call from someone, he doesn't say anything other than "Don't make a move until I give you the green light"

Impact is promoting a show for Wrestling Mediacon with Impact vs The UK. Callihan vs Havoc, Lana Austin vs Su Yung, Sydal vs Swann vs Trevor Lee, LAX vs Fleisch and Storm, and Drake vs Hendry.

Tessa Blanchard Interview - She says that she lives under pressure of being a Blanchard, and tonight, she makes them proud.

Eli Drake Promo - Eli brings out the two geeks that defeated The Cult of Lee last week, Mr. Atlantis and Brandon Tidwell. Fans chanted 'They are dummies, YEAH". They're local guys and the local crowd hates them. Drake tells them that he is gonna give them a chance on a match against himself tonight, and if they win, he'll put in a good word in for them.

Eli Drake vs Brandon Tidwell - Squash
It was a one move match, Drake wasn't even wearing wrestling gear. After the match, Drake dropped Atlantis with the Gravy Train.

Moose & Eddie Edwards Interview - Moose is all fired up, Eddie is more calm, still kinda crazy. Eddie left Moose hanging with a high five.

Impact Knockout's Championship 3-way Match
"The Undead Bride" Su Yung (C) w/The Undead Bridesmaids vs Allie w/Kiera Hogan vs Tessa Blanchard - 6.5/10
They did a great job at having a proper 3-way match with all three women doing spots together in the ring, but at the same time, they told a great story showing that Yung was kept out of a lot of the match by the other two, telling us that in a one-on-one, Su Yung could had retained. Allie and Tessa looked great here and there, and at the end, when Yung was about to submit Allie, Tessa got the roll up on Allie for the pin and crown herself the new KOs champ.

Gama Singh is walking around looking for the DHS to punish them with a broom, when he finds them, he hits them over and over. I thought this was going to lead to The Smoke Show, but it didn't.

Aries and Kross Interview - Kross cut a great sounding promo, but I'm not sure what he was talking about. Aries cut a promo saying that tonight, they take out Moose and Edwards again. Kross is a really underrated promo, he just needs better content.

LAX Promo - They're all torn for little Richie. Santana and Ortiz want revenge. Konnan gets the same call that King got saying "Yes Sir". Konnan gives the same order, no green light, don't do anything. Santana wants to strike now regardless. Ortiz tells him to chill. Plot thickens!

The Smoke Show w/Grado, Katarina, and Joe Hendry - Even Katarina is flabbergasted with Bordeaux! Hendry says that for next week, he wrote a song for the Desi Hit Squad that will explain everything. Bordeaux flirts with Grado making Katarina actually jealous. Grado and Hendry leave, Katarina warns Scarlett to not mess with 'her boys', but Scarlett already did. Not much happened here I think, but it was really funny.

Rich Swann vs Petey Williams - 7/10
Good match for both men, but I have to believe they can do better. It was all back and forth from the beginning, a really athletic match. Story was that Petey had the upper hand, but the set up of the Canadian Destroyer was a big opening for Swann to turn around, and so at the end, he took the win landing a standing SSP.

Post-match - Swann cut a promo backstage saying that he's gonna start ranking up wins to get himself an X-Division title shot. Sydal interrupts him telling him that Rich doesn't know what it takes to be an X-Division champion, but Sydal does, so he wants to help Swann open his third eye. Swann tells him that he doesn't need him, but he is suddenly interrupted by the screeching screams of Alisha, who has found a dead Moose (the wrestler) with Kross's signature card next to him.

Austin Aries & Killer Kross vs Eddie Edwards & Moose? - 7/10, but an awesome segment overall
Edwards actually came out looking a bit worried, he got his ass kicked the last two times he was in the ring with both men. Eddie took on them both at first, but it wasn't long for Aries and Kross got control of him and worked over him. Eddie had some hope spots here and there against Aries, but Kross was always there.

When Eddie was in his weakest, Moose came out and got the hot tag, Kross drops down from the apron and it looks like he has turned on Aries, but out of nowhere, MOOSE SPEARS EDWARDS!!

Moose, Kross, and Aries all gang up on Eddie Edwards as they Pillmanize his head against the ring post. Alisha comes out and slaps Moose, he threatens to hit her and Callis immediately says "Go to break!". Aries, Moose, and Kross stand tall as a new dominant stable. This stable has an awesome look and as LAX and OGz head into the next level of their story, a tag team reign of Kross and Moose would be awesome.

OVERALL THOUGHTS
Great show by Impact, good action top to bottom and that main event angle was awesome. We got some interesting developments in some of the other storylines too.



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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 31st, '18, 10:39

cero2k wrote:
Aug 31st, '18, 10:21

Bordeaux flirts with Grado making Katarina actually jealous.
None of this computes. It implies that 1) Scarlett would subject herself to Grado's presence, and 2) that Katarina has some sort of actual interest in Grado, which is impossible because Katarina is a human and no human being could possibly have an interest in such an obnoxious turd.
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Aug 31st, '18, 11:36

Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 31st, '18, 10:39
cero2k wrote:
Aug 31st, '18, 10:21

Bordeaux flirts with Grado making Katarina actually jealous.
None of this computes. It implies that 1) Scarlett would subject herself to Grado's presence, and 2) that Katarina has some sort of actual interest in Grado, which is impossible because Katarina is a human and no human being could possibly have an interest in such an obnoxious turd.
Scarlett and Grado i cannot explain honestly really, Scarlett flirts with everyone



But Katarina and Grado does seem like a plot to get Hendry into Impact or something, so I have to imagine that their plan is not over and so they don't want Scarlett messing things up for them by un-brainwashing-brainwashing Grado

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by KILLdozer » Sep 4th, '18, 09:07

Katrina? Oh, Katie Lea/ Winter is still there ? Lol.
When they come, they'll come at what you love.

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 4th, '18, 09:12

KILLdozer wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 09:07
Katrina? Oh, Katie Lea/ Winter is still there ? Lol.
Katarina, she returned about a month or so ago

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 4th, '18, 10:46

cero2k wrote:
Aug 31st, '18, 11:36
Big Red Machine wrote:
Aug 31st, '18, 10:39
cero2k wrote:
Aug 31st, '18, 10:21

Bordeaux flirts with Grado making Katarina actually jealous.
None of this computes. It implies that 1) Scarlett would subject herself to Grado's presence, and 2) that Katarina has some sort of actual interest in Grado, which is impossible because Katarina is a human and no human being could possibly have an interest in such an obnoxious turd.
Scarlett and Grado i cannot explain honestly really, Scarlett flirts with everyone



But Katarina and Grado does seem like a plot to get Hendry into Impact or something, so I have to imagine that their plan is not over and so they don't want Scarlett messing things up for them by un-brainwashing-brainwashing Grado
But why would Scarlett give a sh*t about that? Wouldn't a better thing for her to do just be to recruit Hendry herself?
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 4th, '18, 10:48

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 10:46

But why would Scarlett give a sh*t about that? Wouldn't a better thing for her to do just be to recruit Hendry herself?
that's still to be seen, but I don't think Scarlett is recruiting Grado, I think she's just messing with everyone at this point

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 4th, '18, 11:07

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 09:12


Katarina, she returned about a month or so ago
But the real question is "WHY?!"
That's part of the problem with TNA. They bring in and feature a lot of the right people like Aries, Eddie, Penta, Fenix, Sydal, Moose, etc. but then instead of giving these guys more time, they waste time with pointless losers like KM, Fallah Bahh, Kongo Kong, Katrina, Grado... even Hendry doesn't set the world on fire. He's very good, but he's not a guy I would be paying to fly across an ocean.
They bring in Ethan Page and use him like a dork, they bring back Joseph Park, a character whose very existence has become a middle finger to their own continuity, they bring in Scarlett Bordeaux but instead of letting her be a wrestling heel they have her doing a random talk show and messing with people for no reason.
How often do we get more than one match that goes more than twelve minutes? Almost never. Their time management skills are terrible, and after all these years they still feel incapable of building up a proper tag team division. The X-Division now feels like they just borrowed a bunch of guys from other promotions, and the women's division spends WAY too much time on goofy, over the to showmanship and pointless attempts at building "character" that are actually just attempts to try to make their people look as cool as possible without any actual substance. If you want to set yourself apart from WWE, ROH, and LU right now, you need to be a show focused on storylines built around wrestling. No gaga, no gimmick matches for the sake of doing gimmick matches, no POV shots of executives or TwitchTV talk shows. Just wrestling with top-notch wrestlers and titles that are important. They have a two-hour show- something that neither ROH, LU, or NXT have, but they don't use their time and resources wisely.
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 4th, '18, 11:09

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 10:48
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 10:46

But why would Scarlett give a sh*t about that? Wouldn't a better thing for her to do just be to recruit Hendry herself?
that's still to be seen, but I don't think Scarlett is recruiting Grado, I think she's just messing with everyone at this point
I've seen WAY too acts of the past few years who supposedly have secret reasons but just turn out to be messing with people because the plot demands it and never have actual substance, and WWE and TNA especially have done so damn poorly with this that I will never give them the benefit of the doubt until the angle is over.
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 4th, '18, 12:05

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 11:07
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 09:12


Katarina, she returned about a month or so ago
But the real question is "WHY?!"
That's part of the problem with TNA. They bring in and feature a lot of the right people like Aries, Eddie, Penta, Fenix, Sydal, Moose, etc. but then instead of giving these guys more time, they waste time with pointless losers like KM, Fallah Bahh, Kongo Kong, Katrina, Grado... even Hendry doesn't set the world on fire. He's very good, but he's not a guy I would be paying to fly across an ocean.
They bring in Ethan Page and use him like a dork, they bring back Joseph Park, a character whose very existence has become a middle finger to their own continuity, they bring in Scarlett Bordeaux but instead of letting her be a wrestling heel they have her doing a random talk show and messing with people for no reason.
How often do we get more than one match that goes more than twelve minutes? Almost never. Their time management skills are terrible, and after all these years they still feel incapable of building up a proper tag team division. The X-Division now feels like they just borrowed a bunch of guys from other promotions, and the women's division spends WAY too much time on goofy, over the to showmanship and pointless attempts at building "character" that are actually just attempts to try to make their people look as cool as possible without any actual substance. If you want to set yourself apart from WWE, ROH, and LU right now, you need to be a show focused on storylines built around wrestling. No gaga, no gimmick matches for the sake of doing gimmick matches, no POV shots of executives or TwitchTV talk shows. Just wrestling with top-notch wrestlers and titles that are important. They have a two-hour show- something that neither ROH, LU, or NXT have, but they don't use their time and resources wisely.
Give those guys more time for what? to have 30 minute matches that drag on unnecessarily and are cut by commercials? All those guys in the main event scene, they get to cut a promo and a match/segment pretty much every show, or every other show so that you don't spam every episode with the same things over and over. THAT is what makes LU and NXT so easy to watch, it's not the same shit every week. So more time for what?

Every week has a 12+ minute match already
(12.08.2018) Impact X-Division Title: Brian Cage (c) defeats Fenix (w/Pentagon Jr.) (16:53)
(12.08.2018) Mexican Death: Sami Callihan defeats Pentagon Jr. (15:50)
(24.07.2018) Fenix defeats Sami Callihan (w/Dave Crist & Jake Crist) (18:27)
(24.07.2018) Pentagon Jr. defeats Matt Sydal (17:00) AND Impact World Title: Austin Aries (c) defeats Eddie Edwards (17:10)
(23.07.2018) Fenix & Pentagon Jr. defeat oVe (Dave Crist & Jake Crist) (w/Sami Callihan) (17:25)

They have a great tag division. LAX, OGz, Lucha Bros, OVE, Cult of Lee, Z&E, and the feud for the tag titles has been top notch ALL year long, Who has a better tag division right now that are not just a bunch of guys thrown together with no actual tag gimmick? AND that their titles mean something. X-Division IS supposed to feel like a bunch of borrowed guys, top athletic guys from all over the place. Are you gonna say that NXT and WWE feels like 'just a bunch of stolen guys"? no, because that's what it's supposed to be. Tag division, all the top teams have great gimmicks and stories and I'd even say that LAX is top 3 gimmicks of the year. X-Division, all different flavors, great gimmicks, Sydal is the MOST interesting he's ever been, Petey is awesome, Cage is unique in the company, Fenix is Freaking awesome. Women's division, while arguably the weakest, is still being well booked, your three main characters have strong well established gimmicks and alignments, all lower girls are being well kept to rise to the occasion when needed, and when you only have a small division, it's smart to have more building segments than again, spamming the same match week in week out. What you find goofy, lots of people love.

They didn't use Ethan Page, so what, he's not a crown jewel or anything, he's ok at most. Scarlett barely debuted about a month ago and given the women's title scene, she has no reason to be there, she is going the perfect job right now for her, it's not like she's Sara del Rey in the ring that we NEED to get her to the ring ASAP.

You want everything to be EVOLVE, but no one watches EVOLVE. Not everyone wants to watch something like EVOLVE. Impact is doing their thing, they're not trying to be WWE, or NJPW, or ROH, or anyone, and they're doing a good job at it.

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 4th, '18, 12:07

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 11:09


I've seen WAY too acts of the past few years who supposedly have secret reasons but just turn out to be messing with people because the plot demands it and never have actual substance, and WWE and TNA especially have done so damn poorly with this that I will never give them the benefit of the doubt until the angle is over.
Scarlett at no point has shown or mentioned to have any secret reason, she hosts a show and said she could help out Grado with his lady problems and that's it. She helped KM and Bahh too and there were no secret reasons.

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 4th, '18, 12:12

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:07
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 11:09


I've seen WAY too acts of the past few years who supposedly have secret reasons but just turn out to be messing with people because the plot demands it and never have actual substance, and WWE and TNA especially have done so damn poorly with this that I will never give them the benefit of the doubt until the angle is over.
Scarlett at no point has shown or mentioned to have any secret reason, she hosts a show and said she could help out Grado with his lady problems and that's it. She helped KM and Bahh too and there were no secret reasons.
No reasons and secret reasons are basically the same. Why is she doing these things? We know it's not to be nice because she's a heel, so why is she doing them?
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 4th, '18, 13:07

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 11:07
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 09:12


Katarina, she returned about a month or so ago
But the real question is "WHY?!"
That's part of the problem with TNA. They bring in and feature a lot of the right people like Aries, Eddie, Penta, Fenix, Sydal, Moose, etc. but then instead of giving these guys more time, they waste time with pointless losers like KM, Fallah Bahh, Kongo Kong, Katrina, Grado... even Hendry doesn't set the world on fire. He's very good, but he's not a guy I would be paying to fly across an ocean.
They bring in Ethan Page and use him like a dork, they bring back Joseph Park, a character whose very existence has become a middle finger to their own continuity, they bring in Scarlett Bordeaux but instead of letting her be a wrestling heel they have her doing a random talk show and messing with people for no reason.
How often do we get more than one match that goes more than twelve minutes? Almost never. Their time management skills are terrible, and after all these years they still feel incapable of building up a proper tag team division. The X-Division now feels like they just borrowed a bunch of guys from other promotions, and the women's division spends WAY too much time on goofy, over the to showmanship and pointless attempts at building "character" that are actually just attempts to try to make their people look as cool as possible without any actual substance. If you want to set yourself apart from WWE, ROH, and LU right now, you need to be a show focused on storylines built around wrestling. No gaga, no gimmick matches for the sake of doing gimmick matches, no POV shots of executives or TwitchTV talk shows. Just wrestling with top-notch wrestlers and titles that are important. They have a two-hour show- something that neither ROH, LU, or NXT have, but they don't use their time and resources wisely.
Give those guys more time for what? to have 30 minute matches that drag on unnecessarily and are cut by commercials? All those guys in the main event scene, they get to cut a promo and a match/segment pretty much every show, or every other show so that you don't spam every episode with the same things over and over. THAT is what makes LU and NXT so easy to watch, it's not the same shit every week. So more time for what?
Time to have longer, better matches. You don't need to go thirty minutes (or even twenty) every time, but I'd like my main events to be in the that 17-20 range on a consistent basis. (That being said, I think both ROH and TNA would benefit greatly from actually doing a 27-30 minute match on TV every other month or something like that where it can grab people's attention by giving them something they rarely get to see on TV [especially given the successes that LU- and even, to an extent, WWE] has had when they do one).
You don't do the same thing every week. That's the mistake WWE makes. What NXT does right is that they structure their stories so that every important story moves forward in some way every week, even if it is occasionally just a quick recap of what happened the previous week followed by an announcement of a match for the next week. Where both LU and ROH have gone wrong is that they take which ever stories/feuds are featured on that week's show and try to cram two or three things into each one, then don't come back to that feud for two or three weeks, making things feel very start-and-stop.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Every week has a 12+ minute match already
(12.08.2018) Impact X-Division Title: Brian Cage (c) defeats Fenix (w/Pentagon Jr.) (16:53)
(12.08.2018) Mexican Death: Sami Callihan defeats Pentagon Jr. (15:50)
(24.07.2018) Fenix defeats Sami Callihan (w/Dave Crist & Jake Crist) (18:27)
(24.07.2018) Pentagon Jr. defeats Matt Sydal (17:00) AND Impact World Title: Austin Aries (c) defeats Eddie Edwards (17:10)
(23.07.2018) Fenix & Pentagon Jr. defeat oVe (Dave Crist & Jake Crist) (w/Sami Callihan) (17:25)
One 12+ minute match a week is not acceptable for a two-hour show.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
They have a great tag division. LAX, OGz, Lucha Bros, OVE, Cult of Lee, Z&E, and the feud for the tag titles has been top notch ALL year long, Who has a better tag division right now that are not just a bunch of guys thrown together with no actual tag gimmick? AND that their titles mean something. X-Division IS supposed to feel like a bunch of borrowed guys, top athletic guys from all over the place. Are you gonna say that NXT and WWE feels like 'just a bunch of stolen guys"? no, because that's what it's supposed to be. Tag division, all the top teams have great gimmicks and stories and I'd even say that LAX is top 3 gimmicks of the year. X-Division, all different flavors, great gimmicks, Sydal is the MOST interesting he's ever been, Petey is awesome, Cage is unique in the company, Fenix is Freaking awesome. Women's division, while arguably the weakest, is still being well booked, your three main characters have strong well established gimmicks and alignments, all lower girls are being well kept to rise to the occasion when needed, and when you only have a small division, it's smart to have more building segments than again, spamming the same match week in week out. What you find goofy, lots of people love.
I'm not saying the teams in the division are bad. They're not (aside from OVE, who are spot-monkeys). But when was the last time it felt like the division had an actual undercard? When was the last time that after the tag champs current feud ended, there was another team that felt ready made that could step-up and say "we've won X,Y, and Z. We deserve a title shot!" rather than just doing a random #1 contendership match or someone attacking the champs?
I totally disagree about the X-Division being "supposed to feel like a bunch of borrowed guys." It's supposed to feel like a bunch of athletic TNA guys. Guys who have more character to them than just "I'm a guy that does flips/Lucha/strong style. AJ, Daniels, Petey, Sabin, Shelley, Low Ki, Joe- even the undercard guys like Lethal and Sonjay- they all felt like TNA characters. They might bring in some luchadores or Dragon Gate guys who whoever to help spice things up occasionally, but the division always felt like a TNA division, not a bunch of guys from other places who no one ever thinks of as "TNA guys" first.
NXT usually does enough to put their own spin on things, but yes, it does occasionally feel like I'm just watching some other promotion. Undisputed Era is a great example of NXT turning it into their own thing. We've seen several combinations of Cole, O'Reilly, Fish, and Roddy together, and often doing the douchy heel gimmick, but we've never seen this combination of them all together doing it (and usually when they were doing it in ROH or PWG, they were feuding with some of the others. In WWE, Future Shock, reDRagon, and Mt. Rushmore have finally all become one unit).

I agree that Sydal is the most interesting he's been since at least his 2007 heel turn in ROH.
I don't find TNA's women's gimmicks to be "strong." I find them to be all sizzle and very little steak. I agree that they need to use more building segments because the division is so small and I think they've done a decent job keeping the undercard women feeling like potential up-and-comers who just aren't there yet rather than jobbers, but the top of the division has felt like a mess of over-gimmickry.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
They didn't use Ethan Page, so what, he's not a crown jewel or anything, he's ok at most. Scarlett barely debuted about a month ago and given the women's title scene, she has no reason to be there, she is going the perfect job right now for her, it's not like she's Sara del Rey in the ring that we NEED to get her to the ring ASAP.
Ethan Page is pretty great if you just let him be himself and be a heel. He's got that Jimmy Rave-esque natural dislikability but unlike Rav, he can also cut a great promo. But instead they had him be a goofball dork babyface in yet another Joseph Park fiasco.
Scarlett is not Death Rey, but she's not bad, either. If you've seen her AAW stuff, she's actually pretty good. She shouldn't be in the women's title picture yet, but she should be having some sort of undercard feud.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
You want everything to be EVOLVE, but no one watches EVOLVE. Not everyone wants to watch something like EVOLVE. Impact is doing their thing, they're not trying to be WWE, or NJPW, or ROH, or anyone, and they're doing a good job at it.
It's not a matter of being EVOLVE. I think RevPro has been pretty terrible creatively this year, but at least they make the results matter and make the matches feel important by building up to them, not giving them silly names and going over the top with gimmick matches and pointless title matches.
I want Impact to be Impact, too. I want them to be 2005-2006 Impact. What we're getting now is stuff that feels like the period right after that with Russo ruining things but you still had Cornette and Dutch doing some damage control to try to make some things better, and the fact that the main event of a show they had the gall to call "Redefined" is a f*cking RUSSO SWERVE does not give me any confidence. Even f*cking WWE managed to figure out a way to make something like this make some sense, but TNA is just going back to the same f*cking thing that has failed time and again: Russo swerves and a top heel stable.
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 4th, '18, 15:58

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:12

No reasons and secret reasons are basically the same. Why is she doing these things? We know it's not to be nice because she's a heel, so why is she doing them?
we'll wait and see, we don't need to know two shows in. And actually, she isn't exactly a heel, as of now she's just a hot chick getting whatever she wants, but none of that has been a shortcut against babyfaces, she ain't taking anything from anyone. Right now she's just a host of a weekly show.

She helped KM and Bahh and didn't get anything out of it.

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 4th, '18, 16:08

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 15:58
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:12

No reasons and secret reasons are basically the same. Why is she doing these things? We know it's not to be nice because she's a heel, so why is she doing them?
we'll wait and see, we don't need to know two shows in. And actually, she isn't exactly a heel, as of now she's just a hot chick getting whatever she wants, but none of that has been a shortcut against babyfaces, she ain't taking anything from anyone. Right now she's just a host of a weekly show.

She helped KM and Bahh and didn't get anything out of it.
She's clearly a heel. She came out and immediately insulted Alicia, then got the herself a talk show specifically because she claimed she was afraid of the other wrestlers, who she claimed were threatening her because of her behavior... so she's either a coward or a liar. Heel.
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 4th, '18, 17:07

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07
Time to have longer, better matches. You don't need to go thirty minutes (or even twenty) every time, but I'd like my main events to be in the that 17-20 range on a consistent basis. (That being said, I think both ROH and TNA would benefit greatly from actually doing a 27-30 minute match on TV every other month or something like that where it can grab people's attention by giving them something they rarely get to see on TV [especially given the successes that LU- and even, to an extent, WWE] has had when they do one).
You don't do the same thing every week. That's the mistake WWE makes. What NXT does right is that they structure their stories so that every important story moves forward in some way every week, even if it is occasionally just a quick recap of what happened the previous week followed by an announcement of a match for the next week. Where both LU and ROH have gone wrong is that they take which ever stories/feuds are featured on that week's show and try to cram two or three things into each one, then don't come back to that feud for two or three weeks, making things feel very start-and-stop.

One 12+ minute match a week is not acceptable for a two-hour show.
I don't think that 30+ minute matches will grab people a lot, not when you have to cut it for several commercial breaks and not during normal shows. If you're NXT, 205Live, or even LU and you can afford to not cut to commercial, it's easier to plan out the match, but a normal long match does suffer a lot. To me Impact has a good balance for the most part, 1 15 min avg matches that will be the big match being build for that show, 1-2 squashes, 1-2 normal 7 min avg match that builds or showcases someone. The rest can be interviews, segments, recaps, and promoting (because Impact used to be terrible at promoting). The only argument I'd make to support your idea is to cut down the GWN match of the week, because sometimes those do go over 20 minutes simply because they're from PPVs, THAT could be better managed to showcase the stuff they want, but not take so much time away from the current product.

But if you watch an Impact show, they always touch upon all the important angles going on, whether it's an actual segment/match to advance it, or a quick recap/vignette to remind us it exists, videos that don't really take that much time off.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
I'm not saying the teams in the division are bad. They're not (aside from OVE, who are spot-monkeys). But when was the last time it felt like the division had an actual undercard? When was the last time that after the tag champs current feud ended, there was another team that felt ready made that could step-up and say "we've won X,Y, and Z. We deserve a title shot!" rather than just doing a random #1 contendership match or someone attacking the champs?
I totally disagree about the X-Division being "supposed to feel like a bunch of borrowed guys." It's supposed to feel like a bunch of athletic TNA guys. Guys who have more character to them than just "I'm a guy that does flips/Lucha/strong style. AJ, Daniels, Petey, Sabin, Shelley, Low Ki, Joe- even the undercard guys like Lethal and Sonjay- they all felt like TNA characters. They might bring in some luchadores or Dragon Gate guys who whoever to help spice things up occasionally, but the division always felt like a TNA division, not a bunch of guys from other places who no one ever thinks of as "TNA guys" first.
NXT usually does enough to put their own spin on things, but yes, it does occasionally feel like I'm just watching some other promotion. Undisputed Era is a great example of NXT turning it into their own thing. We've seen several combinations of Cole, O'Reilly, Fish, and Roddy together, and often doing the douchy heel gimmick, but we've never seen this combination of them all together doing it (and usually when they were doing it in ROH or PWG, they were feuding with some of the others. In WWE, Future Shock, reDRagon, and Mt. Rushmore have finally all become one unit).

I agree that Sydal is the most interesting he's been since at least his 2007 heel turn in ROH.
I don't find TNA's women's gimmicks to be "strong." I find them to be all sizzle and very little steak. I agree that they need to use more building segments because the division is so small and I think they've done a decent job keeping the undercard women feeling like potential up-and-comers who just aren't there yet rather than jobbers, but the top of the division has felt like a mess of over-gimmickry.
Something that i feel with Impact now a days is that exactly what you say with the KOs. You always have your focus on a few names around the championship, but there is a set of guys under them, doing some other random feud, so that at any point, they're ready for the 'call up' and challenge, and I never see those guys as jobbers. Cult of Lee or KM/Bahh or Desi Hit Squad are technically enhancement guys right now, but they're not lost in jobber status either, they're all easy easy to turn around from one week to the other.

Right now in the main event, Eddie, Callihan, Pentagon, Sydal, Cage, Johnny, and even Kongo Kong thanks to Jacobs, could all simply come out like Eddie did and start a program for the title vs Aries, and it wouldn't feel undeserving. Tag division I feel the same with OVE, Lucha Bros, or Kross/Moose. KOs you have any combination of Allie/Tessa/Yung/Rosemary/Taya as a credible top feud, and have Hogan/Alisha/Rayne that can rise to the occasion.

Maybe no one comes out saying 'i deserve a title shot', but that is not necessary when you have guys that are strong enough to simply take someone out and say 'I want your title'.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Ethan Page is pretty great if you just let him be himself and be a heel. He's got that Jimmy Rave-esque natural dislikability but unlike Rav, he can also cut a great promo. But instead they had him be a goofball dork babyface in yet another Joseph Park fiasco.
Scarlett is not Death Rey, but she's not bad, either. If you've seen her AAW stuff, she's actually pretty good. She shouldn't be in the women's title picture yet, but she should be having some sort of undercard feud.
It's been a month, she'll get there, it will be even better when she can show off in the ring if we've been led to believe she's just a pretty face. And if she doesn't and stays as a talking character, then so be it, she's awesome at it too, that way she won't take time away from Aries, Eddie, Penta, Fenix, Sydal, Moose, etc.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
You want everything to be EVOLVE, but no one watches EVOLVE. Not everyone wants to watch something like EVOLVE. Impact is doing their thing, they're not trying to be WWE, or NJPW, or ROH, or anyone, and they're doing a good job at it.
It's not a matter of being EVOLVE. I think RevPro has been pretty terrible creatively this year, but at least they make the results matter and make the matches feel important by building up to them, not giving them silly names and going over the top with gimmick matches and pointless title matches.
I want Impact to be Impact, too. I want them to be 2005-2006 Impact. What we're getting now is stuff that feels like the period right after that with Russo ruining things but you still had Cornette and Dutch doing some damage control to try to make some things better, and the fact that the main event of a show they had the gall to call "Redefined" is a f*cking RUSSO SWERVE does not give me any confidence. Even f*cking WWE managed to figure out a way to make something like this make some sense, but TNA is just going back to the same f*cking thing that has failed time and again: Russo swerves and a top heel stable.
[/quote]
You want Impact to be 2005 Impact, but it's not 2005 anymore, just like it's not 2007 ROH either, nor it's 2006 Smackdown either, it's not even 2017 PROGRESS. Things come and go, and as the numbers of those promotions show, there is a fan base for everything. a LOT of matches are built up to on Impact, some long term, some short term, but if it's not enough build up for you, that's ok, that's why you don't watch it anymore, you have WWE and PROGRESS that build up matches a year in advance. If this ends up being just a Russo swerve, then be it, but at least they got my attention and interest for the next episode.

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 4th, '18, 17:11

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 16:08

She's clearly a heel. She came out and immediately insulted Alicia, then got the herself a talk show specifically because she claimed she was afraid of the other wrestlers, who she claimed were threatening her because of her behavior... so she's either a coward or a liar. Heel.
fair enough, we still don't need to know her mischievous plans to helping Grado deal with his gf problems. cowards and liars can help too, the storyline is not about Bordeaux, it's about Grado and Hendry.

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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 4th, '18, 19:25

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 17:07
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07
Time to have longer, better matches. You don't need to go thirty minutes (or even twenty) every time, but I'd like my main events to be in the that 17-20 range on a consistent basis. (That being said, I think both ROH and TNA would benefit greatly from actually doing a 27-30 minute match on TV every other month or something like that where it can grab people's attention by giving them something they rarely get to see on TV [especially given the successes that LU- and even, to an extent, WWE] has had when they do one).
You don't do the same thing every week. That's the mistake WWE makes. What NXT does right is that they structure their stories so that every important story moves forward in some way every week, even if it is occasionally just a quick recap of what happened the previous week followed by an announcement of a match for the next week. Where both LU and ROH have gone wrong is that they take which ever stories/feuds are featured on that week's show and try to cram two or three things into each one, then don't come back to that feud for two or three weeks, making things feel very start-and-stop.

One 12+ minute match a week is not acceptable for a two-hour show.
I don't think that 30+ minute matches will grab people a lot, not when you have to cut it for several commercial breaks and not during normal shows. If you're NXT, 205Live, or even LU and you can afford to not cut to commercial, it's easier to plan out the match, but a normal long match does suffer a lot. To me Impact has a good balance for the most part, 1 15 min avg matches that will be the big match being build for that show, 1-2 squashes, 1-2 normal 7 min avg match that builds or showcases someone. The rest can be interviews, segments, recaps, and promoting (because Impact used to be terrible at promoting). The only argument I'd make to support your idea is to cut down the GWN match of the week, because sometimes those do go over 20 minutes simply because they're from PPVs, THAT could be better managed to showcase the stuff they want, but not take so much time away from the current product.
I think the Rollins vs. Ziggler match and the big Gauntlet WWE did in the winter showed that people will stay around for it, and I think if you only do it once every two or three months, it will make it feel special when it does happen.
I'd cut down one squash and cut down on promos that wind up being redundant with your other hype for a match that week. Unless it's a title match or maybe a big blow-off, I would almost never have someone cut a promo to build up a match on that same show, and I wouldn't have them talk later on the show either unless it's something that demands follow-up that night. Promos should be used to set up your match for next week or address something that happened in your match last week or something that someone did/said to you last week. If they are spending ANY time on a GWN match of the week, they're making a big mistake. No company (with the possible exception of WWE because their library is so huge and has so many different things) is going to sell subscriptions based on the archives. MAYBE ROH would have a shot given the relatively mythic status of some things in the company's history (Summer of Punk, Dragon vs. Nigel, CZW feud, Jimmy Loves Lacey, Steen vs. Generico, Briscoes vs. Steenerico, the main event of the first show, Joe vs. Punk matches), but even that is so far removed that it takes new fans interacting with old ones on message boards for people to find it (and part of that is because they actually can't do anything with most of the old footage due to copyright issues with the music, which it would take them forever to change, and they haven't started yet despite having promised us archives for over four years now). What little mythic history TNA has is all easily searchable on YouTube. If people are going to subscribe to a TNA thing, it's going to be new content that drives it, just like it does with ROH, WWN, New Japan, wXw, PROGRESS, and everyone else.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 17:07
But if you watch an Impact show, they always touch upon all the important angles going on, whether it's an actual segment/match to advance it, or a quick recap/vignette to remind us it exists, videos that don't really take that much time off.
I watched most of the show a few weeks ago (the one with the Lucha Death Match) and usually watch clips on YouTube. It just didn't feel as fluid as it does on NXT. Maybe Josh's pitching style is the problem for me.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07

I'm not saying the teams in the division are bad. They're not (aside from OVE, who are spot-monkeys). But when was the last time it felt like the division had an actual undercard? When was the last time that after the tag champs current feud ended, there was another team that felt ready made that could step-up and say "we've won X,Y, and Z. We deserve a title shot!" rather than just doing a random #1 contendership match or someone attacking the champs?
I totally disagree about the X-Division being "supposed to feel like a bunch of borrowed guys." It's supposed to feel like a bunch of athletic TNA guys. Guys who have more character to them than just "I'm a guy that does flips/Lucha/strong style. AJ, Daniels, Petey, Sabin, Shelley, Low Ki, Joe- even the undercard guys like Lethal and Sonjay- they all felt like TNA characters. They might bring in some luchadores or Dragon Gate guys who whoever to help spice things up occasionally, but the division always felt like a TNA division, not a bunch of guys from other places who no one ever thinks of as "TNA guys" first.
NXT usually does enough to put their own spin on things, but yes, it does occasionally feel like I'm just watching some other promotion. Undisputed Era is a great example of NXT turning it into their own thing. We've seen several combinations of Cole, O'Reilly, Fish, and Roddy together, and often doing the douchy heel gimmick, but we've never seen this combination of them all together doing it (and usually when they were doing it in ROH or PWG, they were feuding with some of the others. In WWE, Future Shock, reDRagon, and Mt. Rushmore have finally all become one unit).

I agree that Sydal is the most interesting he's been since at least his 2007 heel turn in ROH.
I don't find TNA's women's gimmicks to be "strong." I find them to be all sizzle and very little steak. I agree that they need to use more building segments because the division is so small and I think they've done a decent job keeping the undercard women feeling like potential up-and-comers who just aren't there yet rather than jobbers, but the top of the division has felt like a mess of over-gimmickry.
Something that i feel with Impact now a days is that exactly what you say with the KOs. You always have your focus on a few names around the championship, but there is a set of guys under them, doing some other random feud, so that at any point, they're ready for the 'call up' and challenge, and I never see those guys as jobbers. Cult of Lee or KM/Bahh or Desi Hit Squad are technically enhancement guys right now, but they're not lost in jobber status either, they're all easy easy to turn around from one week to the other.
Cult of Lee come off like total jobbers to me. KM and Bah are just... "why are they even here" type of guys to me when there are so many better acts available. They're like The Kingdom.

Right now in the main event, Eddie, Callihan, Pentagon, Sydal, Cage, Johnny, and even Kongo Kong thanks to Jacobs, could all simply come out like Eddie did and start a program for the title vs Aries, and it wouldn't feel undeserving. Tag division I feel the same with OVE, Lucha Bros, or Kross/Moose. KOs you have any combination of Allie/Tessa/Yung/Rosemary/Taya as a credible top feud, and have Hogan/Alisha/Rayne that can rise to the occasion.
That's way too WWE-style for me (or what ROH is doing now) when they rely way too much on past accomplishment to say a guy is deserving of a title shot rather than showing us guys earning it by racking up wins.
Maybe no one comes out saying 'i deserve a title shot', but that is not necessary when you have guys that are strong enough to simply take someone out and say 'I want your title'.
Which I find obnoxiously repetitive and very WWE-esque. It's the old WWE problem of "the guy getting the title shot is whoever happens to have/create a personal issue with the champion" rather than whoever earns it by winning matches.


cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07
Scarlett is not Death Rey, but she's not bad, either. If you've seen her AAW stuff, she's actually pretty good. She shouldn't be in the women's title picture yet, but she should be having some sort of undercard feud.
It's been a month, she'll get there, it will be even better when she can show off in the ring if we've been led to believe she's just a pretty face. And if she doesn't and stays as a talking character, then so be it, she's awesome at it too, that way she won't take time away from Aries, Eddie, Penta, Fenix, Sydal, Moose, etc.
Maybe... but she's also a good enough talker that not using her as a manager is criminal under-utilization.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05

You want Impact to be 2005 Impact, but it's not 2005 anymore, just like it's not 2007 ROH either, nor it's 2006 Smackdown either, it's not even 2017 PROGRESS. Things come and go, and as the numbers of those promotions show, there is a fan base for everything. a LOT of matches are built up to on Impact, some long term, some short term, but if it's not enough build up for you, that's ok, that's why you don't watch it anymore, you have WWE and PROGRESS that build up matches a year in advance. If this ends up being just a Russo swerve, then be it, but at least they got my attention and interest for the next episode.
You say that "those things come and go," but the problem is that the reason for them going is always the same bullsh*t reason: that once those things make the climb to the next level, some idiot in charge decided that the thing that got them this far will never work on TV and thus in order to succeed they must turn into something else (in TNA's case they turned into WWE-lite and in ROH's case they first became Smoky Mountain of Honor and then this current NJPW-lite that is only being propped up by Bullet Club's cult of personality). No one has ever even given the more wrestling-oriented TNA or a more storytelling-oriented ROH a chance on TV despite the fact that those were the things that got them to TV in the first place. It's the equivalent of telling a girl "thanks for getting me into your cool roommate's house party, but if you expect me to actually hang out with you then you need to go to your room, stuff your bra, and change into something that shows a lot more leg."
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 5th, '18, 10:58

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07

I think the Rollins vs. Ziggler match and the big Gauntlet WWE did in the winter showed that people will stay around for it, and I think if you only do it once every two or three months, it will make it feel special when it does happen.
I'd cut down one squash and cut down on promos that wind up being redundant with your other hype for a match that week. Unless it's a title match or maybe a big blow-off, I would almost never have someone cut a promo to build up a match on that same show, and I wouldn't have them talk later on the show either unless it's something that demands follow-up that night. Promos should be used to set up your match for next week or address something that happened in your match last week or something that someone did/said to you last week. If they are spending ANY time on a GWN match of the week, they're making a big mistake. No company (with the possible exception of WWE because their library is so huge and has so many different things) is going to sell subscriptions based on the archives. MAYBE ROH would have a shot given the relatively mythic status of some things in the company's history (Summer of Punk, Dragon vs. Nigel, CZW feud, Jimmy Loves Lacey, Steen vs. Generico, Briscoes vs. Steenerico, the main event of the first show, Joe vs. Punk matches), but even that is so far removed that it takes new fans interacting with old ones on message boards for people to find it (and part of that is because they actually can't do anything with most of the old footage due to copyright issues with the music, which it would take them forever to change, and they haven't started yet despite having promised us archives for over four years now). What little mythic history TNA has is all easily searchable on YouTube. If people are going to subscribe to a TNA thing, it's going to be new content that drives it, just like it does with ROH, WWN, New Japan, wXw, PROGRESS, and everyone else.
Rollins vs Ziggler and the Gauntlet show that they can keep the audience over a long period of time, but Impact is not looking to keep audience hooked, they need to attract them first, so I think that a first time viewer may be turned off if the match keeps going and going. I think a battle royale or a gauntlet could warrant going long over several commercial breaks, because those matches have breaks in on themselves. I'm not opposed to having them on Impact, but I don't think they're that essential. I think the 15min avg match is good enough for that purpose.

We agree on the GWN, I do think it's worth showing a small clip of something, because i rather have that than they selling it on every promo, but emphasis on small. Nothing longer than 1 or 2 minutes.

I don't disagree on the promos, for the most part, I think they're ok. Long promos always replace having a match, so it's how they get the big names out there at least once a show. Backstage interviews are the ones that build to tonight's match, and they're generally short. The ones I would maybe cut are the pre-commercial break 30 second promo of a dude getting ready and saying "i'm gonna kick your ass", but they being 30 seconds, i don't exactly feel overwhelmed.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 17:07
I watched most of the show a few weeks ago (the one with the Lucha Death Match) and usually watch clips on YouTube. It just didn't feel as fluid as it does on NXT. Maybe Josh's pitching style is the problem for me.
It may not be as fluid, Impact does pack up a lot more than NXT, and one flaw that Josh and Impact have is that they segway though segments that are of completely different feels, they do sometimes go from serious to commercial to funny to serious, and that does break the fluidity sometimes.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07
Cult of Lee come off like total jobbers to me. KM and Bah are just... "why are they even here" type of guys to me when there are so many better acts available. They're like The Kingdom.

That's way too WWE-style for me (or what ROH is doing now) when they rely way too much on past accomplishment to say a guy is deserving of a title shot rather than showing us guys earning it by racking up wins.


Which I find obnoxiously repetitive and very WWE-esque. It's the old WWE problem of "the guy getting the title shot is whoever happens to have/create a personal issue with the champion" rather than whoever earns it by winning matches.
Bahh and KM are like Axel and Dallas, they fulfill a comedy part and that good feel moment for Bahh getting some wins. People love Bahh. Caleb is a jobber, but as a team, they are not lost in jobber limbo, they can be salvaged easily, they're not just lackeys to Taven.

I wouldn't say living up on past accomplishments, but rather they have a strong presence, and not that this warrants a title shot, but you can start a feud out of that and it wouldn't feel like a Jinder Mahal push. A good example is Johnny Mundo, he was taken out by Kong for a month, came back, got revenge on the monster, got his win, and now, with only one win, he could easily have come out during Aries' 'open challenge' and been a credible contender going into the end of summer, if not BFG, simply because he's Johnny Impact and has always been portrayed as strong. And maybe that's the key right now, Aries is making 'open challenges', so you don't necessarily need someone to rank up wins. I will bring up that after Swann's win on this show, he did say that he's gonna start ranking wins to earn a title shot, and that's when Sydal interrupted him, so these things do still happen, but they don't always make sense to use them.

X-Division, Fenix gathered wins before his title shot and now Swann seems to be on it too. Sydal as former champion and heel may jump over that. None of these contenders have really been 'personal issues' so far, just normal animosity between face and heel, but that's it.
KOs, Allie had a pin over the champ, and she demanded to have Tessa added to the match, and Tessa being the heel challenged them to put the title on the line. Yung still has a rematch and claim that she wasn't pinned. Allie has wins over Tessa, and she can say that she was rolled up. This feels more njpw style with pins over champs.
Tag titles are involved in a blood feud, so as long as it's between them, I don't see any other team coming in to the mix. Bahh and KM have been ranking wins, OVE is still technically strong to come out and mess with whoever wins the fued. Moose and Kross I really really hope they get in there some how, but I don't know yet.
World Title: Moose had a legit no 1 contendership. Aries made open challenges and thus we got Pentagon and Eddie in there on their respective moments. Eddie even had wins over Callihan and Dreamer.

The true contenders of each title do have some sort of argument to their spots right now
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Maybe... but she's also a good enough talker that not using her as a manager is criminal under-utilization.
I'm sure they have big plans for her, she came in super strong with vignettes and her own show and all. I don't know where her direction will go, but with the main event how it is right now, it's best she doesn't get involved, especially if Tessa is the champ. If it's managing, they also need to find someone worthy, not just pair her up with whatever dude that can't talk, at least if the idea is a long term plan of her managing.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
You say that "those things come and go," but the problem is that the reason for them going is always the same bullsh*t reason: that once those things make the climb to the next level, some idiot in charge decided that the thing that got them this far will never work on TV and thus in order to succeed they must turn into something else (in TNA's case they turned into WWE-lite and in ROH's case they first became Smoky Mountain of Honor and then this current NJPW-lite that is only being propped up by Bullet Club's cult of personality). No one has ever even given the more wrestling-oriented TNA or a more storytelling-oriented ROH a chance on TV despite the fact that those were the things that got them to TV in the first place. It's the equivalent of telling a girl "thanks for getting me into your cool roommate's house party, but if you expect me to actually hang out with you then you need to go to your room, stuff your bra, and change into something that shows a lot more leg."
I don't disagree, it's the same argument that Mike Tenay made during the Cow Palace NJPW show, don't bring a US version of NJPW, bring NJPW. It's an issue that I think all promotions have, and it's our own fault for giving WWE our money and making television executives think the idea that 'THAT' thing is wrestling. It's an inevitable thing, because as long as the thing to do is grab fans, you need to do what fans want to see, and the pure wrestling fan is a minority over what WWE makes the money people see. That's one reason why ALL IN was important, because hopefully it would show that there is money to make outside of WWE, and while ALL IN was FULL of Sports Entertainment, it was also action packed top to bottom. This is why NJPW or CMLL are promotions that people should go for, because to their core, they're far more stubborn on doing their thing and they're already big. It's the smaller ones that are corruptible, RevPro just got a tv deal, let's see how it goes for them.

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Big Red Machine
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Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 5th, '18, 12:53

cero2k wrote:
Sep 5th, '18, 10:58
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07

I think the Rollins vs. Ziggler match and the big Gauntlet WWE did in the winter showed that people will stay around for it, and I think if you only do it once every two or three months, it will make it feel special when it does happen.
I'd cut down one squash and cut down on promos that wind up being redundant with your other hype for a match that week. Unless it's a title match or maybe a big blow-off, I would almost never have someone cut a promo to build up a match on that same show, and I wouldn't have them talk later on the show either unless it's something that demands follow-up that night. Promos should be used to set up your match for next week or address something that happened in your match last week or something that someone did/said to you last week. If they are spending ANY time on a GWN match of the week, they're making a big mistake. No company (with the possible exception of WWE because their library is so huge and has so many different things) is going to sell subscriptions based on the archives. MAYBE ROH would have a shot given the relatively mythic status of some things in the company's history (Summer of Punk, Dragon vs. Nigel, CZW feud, Jimmy Loves Lacey, Steen vs. Generico, Briscoes vs. Steenerico, the main event of the first show, Joe vs. Punk matches), but even that is so far removed that it takes new fans interacting with old ones on message boards for people to find it (and part of that is because they actually can't do anything with most of the old footage due to copyright issues with the music, which it would take them forever to change, and they haven't started yet despite having promised us archives for over four years now). What little mythic history TNA has is all easily searchable on YouTube. If people are going to subscribe to a TNA thing, it's going to be new content that drives it, just like it does with ROH, WWN, New Japan, wXw, PROGRESS, and everyone else.
Rollins vs Ziggler and the Gauntlet show that they can keep the audience over a long period of time, but Impact is not looking to keep audience hooked, they need to attract them first, so I think that a first time viewer may be turned off if the match keeps going and going.
People always say this, but do we have any indication if it's actually true? That's like, Vince Russo/Disco Inferno/Kevin Dunn talk. "People have no attention span and thus they'll get bored if they see a wrestling match go too long."
I would think that the way to catch a first-time viewer is with something that is new to them, and a long grappling battle will do that. I don't mean, like, Funk vs. Brisco. I mean, like, send O'Reilly and Gulak type of guys out there to do fast-paced grapplef*ck that slowly turns into an American-style match by, like, the twenty-five minute mark. Every time I'm watching wrestling and someone walks into the room, the stuff that catches their eye is either grapplef*ck or Lucha spots.
I also think that if you start off the show with something like that- something that is so different than what we normally (if ever) see on TV in the US- it is probably the one thing that might get people to proverbially "call their friends" and say "Impact has thins thing going on and it looks like it will be great" because those types of matches actually do build excitement in that very set and steady way (as opposed to up-down-up-down) that can give you the feeling that "this thing is going to go thirty minutes. This is something special."


cero2k wrote:
Sep 5th, '18, 10:58
I think a battle royale or a gauntlet could warrant going long over several commercial breaks, because those matches have breaks in on themselves. I'm not opposed to having them on Impact, but I don't think they're that essential. I think the 15min avg match is good enough for that purpose.
I think they're essential for setting Impact apart, which should be the goal. And also... don't do battle royales. They're boring as f*ck.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 5th, '18, 10:58
I don't disagree on the promos, for the most part, I think they're ok. Long promos always replace having a match, so it's how they get the big names out there at least once a show. Backstage interviews are the ones that build to tonight's match, and they're generally short. The ones I would maybe cut are the pre-commercial break 30 second promo of a dude getting ready and saying "i'm gonna kick your ass", but they being 30 seconds, i don't exactly feel overwhelmed.
I'd cut long promos, too. If you're going to do a long talking segment, make it important.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 17:07

Tag titles are involved in a blood feud, so as long as it's between them, I don't see any other team coming in to the mix. Bahh and KM have been ranking wins, OVE is still technically strong to come out and mess with whoever wins the fued. Moose and Kross I really really hope they get in there some how, but I don't know yet.
World Title: Moose had a legit no 1 contendership. Aries made open challenges and thus we got Pentagon and Eddie in there on their respective moments. Eddie even had wins over Callihan and Dreamer.
If the tag titles are involved in a blood feud then it makes even more sense to have a non-blood feud undercard going at the same time to build someone up for when the blood feud is over (plus it creates the possibility of any number of stories, from " are the champs in too bad a condition from their blood feud to defend their titles at peak strength?" to the Colt Cabana "I was so focused on fighting I forgot how to wrestle" story that sets them up for a rebuilding journey and eventually another title shot as the payoff, etc.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 17:07
The true contenders of each title do have some sort of argument to their spots right now
Then they should do a better job of pushing it on TV.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07
Maybe... but she's also a good enough talker that not using her as a manager is criminal under-utilization.
I'm sure they have big plans for her, she came in super strong with vignettes and her own show and all. I don't know where her direction will go, but with the main event how it is right now, it's best she doesn't get involved, especially if Tessa is the champ. If it's managing, they also need to find someone worthy, not just pair her up with whatever dude that can't talk, at least if the idea is a long term plan of her managing.
I don't have faith that they have too much in the way of long-term pans. They've seemed pretty wishy-washy since the spring.
Caleb Konley is the first guy who springs to my mind for Scarlett to manage. He's an okay talker on his own, but he's a natural heel who is also attractive enough for Scarlett to accept being around her. It'd be something like the Konley/SoCal Val dynamic in EVOLVE except that Scarlett is more of a sh*t-stirrer heel than a traditional manager like Val is.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 13:07
You say that "those things come and go," but the problem is that the reason for them going is always the same bullsh*t reason: that once those things make the climb to the next level, some idiot in charge decided that the thing that got them this far will never work on TV and thus in order to succeed they must turn into something else (in TNA's case they turned into WWE-lite and in ROH's case they first became Smoky Mountain of Honor and then this current NJPW-lite that is only being propped up by Bullet Club's cult of personality). No one has ever even given the more wrestling-oriented TNA or a more storytelling-oriented ROH a chance on TV despite the fact that those were the things that got them to TV in the first place. It's the equivalent of telling a girl "thanks for getting me into your cool roommate's house party, but if you expect me to actually hang out with you then you need to go to your room, stuff your bra, and change into something that shows a lot more leg."
I don't disagree, it's the same argument that Mike Tenay made during the Cow Palace NJPW show, don't bring a US version of NJPW, bring NJPW. It's an issue that I think all promotions have, and it's our own fault for giving WWE our money and making television executives think the idea that 'THAT' thing is wrestling. It's an inevitable thing, because as long as the thing to do is grab fans, you need to do what fans want to see, and the pure wrestling fan is a minority over what WWE makes the money people see. That's one reason why ALL IN was important, because hopefully it would show that there is money to make outside of WWE, and while ALL IN was FULL of Sports Entertainment, it was also action packed top to bottom. This is why NJPW or CMLL are promotions that people should go for, because to their core, they're far more stubborn on doing their thing and they're already big. It's the smaller ones that are corruptible, RevPro just got a tv deal, let's see how it goes for them.
I don't think it's "our fault for giving WWE our money," though. It's the fault of Delirious and Jeff Jarrett and Dixie Carter (Cornette is a different issue because although the result was the same, the motivation was different. Still wrong, but different) for not sticking to their guns and learning the lessons of history. The idea- and even the proof- that the best way to compete with the juggernaut is to offer something different has been around since at least the mid-90s, and has been the prevailing narrative since at least the early 2000s. It's what ECW did with the violence and the risque stuff and the use of Lucha guys and Michinoku Pro guys and the shoot comments, its what Nitro did with the Lucha guys and the strong-style and "cruiserweight" stuff that Eddie/Dean/Benoit/Jericho were doing, and the way they presented the nWo early on. It's what Gabe did to make ROH the dominant force on the indies etc. You can even see it on just an individual level with Joey Janela, who was going around in 2017 taking deathmatch bumps.
What All In did that was different that helped them succeed was the way they built the show: not around matches but around an idea, and they used a comedy show to create a cult of personality that they used to draw people. Aside from some stuff (mostly around Cody/Flip and Cody/Aldis) that took place on ROH shows, the build for All In took place entirely on a show with zero wrestling on it, in a universe that feels like CHIKARA if CHIKARA mixed their serious stuff and their silly stuff.

WWE's problem isn't a lack of action. It's boring sometimes, but it's not all chinlocks like Alvarez likes to say. Their problem is that they don't know how to relate to or react to fans. If you took the heads of Creative and Branding in any other company and swapped them out for Vince (the real head of Creative) and Steph, people would like WWE a lot more because there wouldn't be a "war on fans" (or whatever term people are using nowadays) and it would eliminate all of their annoying quirks in terms of verbiage, the way they hype things, and the fact that it all combines to make it feel like the company is always full of sh*t.

I disagree that NJPW and CMLL are going to be the hardest to corrupt. CMLL, maybe, but that's due to market dominance and contentment rather than stubbornness. The hardest to corrupt are going to be places with a strong vision-oriented leader like CHIKARA. Quack will be Quack until the day he dies. New Japan might well be putting on a different product in the US if they didn't have ROH to do that for them and see what level of mixture (if any) works best.
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