Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

All Impact Wrestling (FKA TNA/GFW 2017) Reviews and Discussions
User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 16629
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32
Favorite Wrestler: Eddie Guerrero
Location: El Paso, TX
Contact:

Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 6th, '18, 10:04

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 5th, '18, 12:53
People always say this, but do we have any indication if it's actually true? That's like, Vince Russo/Disco Inferno/Kevin Dunn talk. "People have no attention span and thus they'll get bored if they see a wrestling match go too long."
I would think that the way to catch a first-time viewer is with something that is new to them, and a long grappling battle will do that. I don't mean, like, Funk vs. Brisco. I mean, like, send O'Reilly and Gulak type of guys out there to do fast-paced grapplef*ck that slowly turns into an American-style match by, like, the twenty-five minute mark. Every time I'm watching wrestling and someone walks into the room, the stuff that catches their eye is either grapplef*ck or Lucha spots.
I also think that if you start off the show with something like that- something that is so different than what we normally (if ever) see on TV in the US- it is probably the one thing that might get people to proverbially "call their friends" and say "Impact has thins thing going on and it looks like it will be great" because those types of matches actually do build excitement in that very set and steady way (as opposed to up-down-up-down) that can give you the feeling that "this thing is going to go thirty minutes. This is something special."
Only indication that I have is myself, a long match constantly cut by commercials drags IMO unless perfectly designed for it like an All Night Long match. If you want to catch new fans, do spot fests, X-division spot fests.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 5th, '18, 10:58
I think they're essential for setting Impact apart, which should be the goal. And also... don't do battle royales. They're boring as f*ck.
Will it really set them apart when LU, NXT, NJPW, and ROH do the every now and then? There are many different ways, more noticeable, that Impact could set themselves apart from the rest. Having super long matches is cool, but it's not essential on a weekly televised show imo.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 17:07
If the tag titles are involved in a blood feud then it makes even more sense to have a non-blood feud undercard going at the same time to build someone up for when the blood feud is over (plus it creates the possibility of any number of stories, from " are the champs in too bad a condition from their blood feud to defend their titles at peak strength?" to the Colt Cabana "I was so focused on fighting I forgot how to wrestle" story that sets them up for a rebuilding journey and eventually another title shot as the payoff, etc.
Bahh/KM vs Desi Hit Squad and OVE vs Lucha Bros are going on right now. Bahh/KM could be a perfect third team to find themselves inbetween LAX and OGz and steal the title since the other two are too focused on killing each other, then be transition champions to someone like Kross/Moose or OVE. On the latter, Luchas vs LAX would just be perfect.

cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 17:07
Then they should do a better job of pushing it on TV.
I don't know what else is there to push unless explaining it to kids with apples and oranges. Just following the product gives you all the information you need.
cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
I don't think it's "our fault for giving WWE our money," though. It's the fault of Delirious and Jeff Jarrett and Dixie Carter (Cornette is a different issue because although the result was the same, the motivation was different. Still wrong, but different) for not sticking to their guns and learning the lessons of history. The idea- and even the proof- that the best way to compete with the juggernaut is to offer something different has been around since at least the mid-90s, and has been the prevailing narrative since at least the early 2000s. It's what ECW did with the violence and the risque stuff and the use of Lucha guys and Michinoku Pro guys and the shoot comments, its what Nitro did with the Lucha guys and the strong-style and "cruiserweight" stuff that Eddie/Dean/Benoit/Jericho were doing, and the way they presented the nWo early on. It's what Gabe did to make ROH the dominant force on the indies etc. You can even see it on just an individual level with Joey Janela, who was going around in 2017 taking deathmatch bumps.
What All In did that was different that helped them succeed was the way they built the show: not around matches but around an idea, and they used a comedy show to create a cult of personality that they used to draw people. Aside from some stuff (mostly around Cody/Flip and Cody/Aldis) that took place on ROH shows, the build for All In took place entirely on a show with zero wrestling on it, in a universe that feels like CHIKARA if CHIKARA mixed their serious stuff and their silly stuff.

WWE's problem isn't a lack of action. It's boring sometimes, but it's not all chinlocks like Alvarez likes to say. Their problem is that they don't know how to relate to or react to fans. If you took the heads of Creative and Branding in any other company and swapped them out for Vince (the real head of Creative) and Steph, people would like WWE a lot more because there wouldn't be a "war on fans" (or whatever term people are using nowadays) and it would eliminate all of their annoying quirks in terms of verbiage, the way they hype things, and the fact that it all combines to make it feel like the company is always full of sh*t.

I disagree that NJPW and CMLL are going to be the hardest to corrupt. CMLL, maybe, but that's due to market dominance and contentment rather than stubbornness. The hardest to corrupt are going to be places with a strong vision-oriented leader like CHIKARA. Quack will be Quack until the day he dies. New Japan might well be putting on a different product in the US if they didn't have ROH to do that for them and see what level of mixture (if any) works best.
You overestimate how much guns you can stick to against money and television executives, Delirious and Jarrett are stooges to suits and if you stick to your guns, then your days are counted. CHIKARA is indeed incorruptible, and look at where they are now, lost in irrelevance, they're one of the only 2000's indie that didn't really change and they're not thriving anymore. People that don't know wrestling only know WWE, and those same people buy Impact and ROH and want to have something like the wrestling they know, and the majority of fans support that idea, fans follow that same mentality.



User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 21066
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12
Favorite Wrestler: Kane

Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 6th, '18, 15:47

cero2k wrote:
Sep 6th, '18, 10:04
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 5th, '18, 12:53

I think they're essential for setting Impact apart, which should be the goal. And also... don't do battle royales. They're boring as f*ck.
Will it really set them apart when LU, NXT, NJPW, and ROH do the every now and then? There are many different ways, more noticeable, that Impact could set themselves apart from the rest. Having super long matches is cool, but it's not essential on a weekly televised show imo.
ROH and NXT really don't do it, NJPW is a whole different animal because it's not exactly a "continuous weekly TV show" the way everyone else is, and when LU does it, it's always a gimmick. Doing a match that builds well and goes long once every two months or so is something that I think will get Impact positive attention and make the show feel different because you'll never know when that match is going to pop up (as opposed to, say, LU, which always hypes it up in advance because of the nature of the gimmick).




cero2k wrote:
Sep 4th, '18, 12:05
Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 5th, '18, 12:53
I don't think it's "our fault for giving WWE our money," though. It's the fault of Delirious and Jeff Jarrett and Dixie Carter (Cornette is a different issue because although the result was the same, the motivation was different. Still wrong, but different) for not sticking to their guns and learning the lessons of history. The idea- and even the proof- that the best way to compete with the juggernaut is to offer something different has been around since at least the mid-90s, and has been the prevailing narrative since at least the early 2000s. It's what ECW did with the violence and the risque stuff and the use of Lucha guys and Michinoku Pro guys and the shoot comments, its what Nitro did with the Lucha guys and the strong-style and "cruiserweight" stuff that Eddie/Dean/Benoit/Jericho were doing, and the way they presented the nWo early on. It's what Gabe did to make ROH the dominant force on the indies etc. You can even see it on just an individual level with Joey Janela, who was going around in 2017 taking deathmatch bumps.
What All In did that was different that helped them succeed was the way they built the show: not around matches but around an idea, and they used a comedy show to create a cult of personality that they used to draw people. Aside from some stuff (mostly around Cody/Flip and Cody/Aldis) that took place on ROH shows, the build for All In took place entirely on a show with zero wrestling on it, in a universe that feels like CHIKARA if CHIKARA mixed their serious stuff and their silly stuff.

WWE's problem isn't a lack of action. It's boring sometimes, but it's not all chinlocks like Alvarez likes to say. Their problem is that they don't know how to relate to or react to fans. If you took the heads of Creative and Branding in any other company and swapped them out for Vince (the real head of Creative) and Steph, people would like WWE a lot more because there wouldn't be a "war on fans" (or whatever term people are using nowadays) and it would eliminate all of their annoying quirks in terms of verbiage, the way they hype things, and the fact that it all combines to make it feel like the company is always full of sh*t.

I disagree that NJPW and CMLL are going to be the hardest to corrupt. CMLL, maybe, but that's due to market dominance and contentment rather than stubbornness. The hardest to corrupt are going to be places with a strong vision-oriented leader like CHIKARA. Quack will be Quack until the day he dies. New Japan might well be putting on a different product in the US if they didn't have ROH to do that for them and see what level of mixture (if any) works best.
You overestimate how much guns you can stick to against money and television executives, Delirious and Jarrett are stooges to suits and if you stick to your guns, then your days are counted. CHIKARA is indeed incorruptible, and look at where they are now, lost in irrelevance, they're one of the only 2000's indie that didn't really change and they're not thriving anymore. People that don't know wrestling only know WWE, and those same people buy Impact and ROH and want to have something like the wrestling they know, and the majority of fans support that idea, fans follow that same mentality.
ROH doesn't seem to have any sort of real interference, as Koff is letting Delirious do whatever he wants, and if the other Sinclair higher-ups were paying attention, we probably wouldn't have seen Dalton Caste as ROH World Champion. Spike also gave TNA A LOT of latitude. We didn't start hearing about Spike giving directives until they got tired of Russo having man-on-woman violence, and even then it was usually only that. All Spike wanted was for Sting to be around, and they were even willing to foot a chunk of the bill for that.
I'd argue that CHIKARA has fallen so far because they did deviate from what they were by failing to provide satisfactory answers for the whole Titor/Flood/shutdown angle.
If we assume that all fans follow the idea that everything has to be like WWE then everything is a lost cause and there is no point in anyone doing anything.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
WWE in 2005
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
Beyond Flesh
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
ECW Guilty As Charged 1999

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 16629
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32
Favorite Wrestler: Eddie Guerrero
Location: El Paso, TX
Contact:

Re: Impact Wrestling 8.30 Review: ReDefined

Post by cero2k » Sep 6th, '18, 22:06

Big Red Machine wrote:
Sep 6th, '18, 15:47


ROH doesn't seem to have any sort of real interference, as Koff is letting Delirious do whatever he wants, and if the other Sinclair higher-ups were paying attention, we probably wouldn't have seen Dalton Caste as ROH World Champion. Spike also gave TNA A LOT of latitude. We didn't start hearing about Spike giving directives until they got tired of Russo having man-on-woman violence, and even then it was usually only that. All Spike wanted was for Sting to be around, and they were even willing to foot a chunk of the bill for that.
I'd argue that CHIKARA has fallen so far because they did deviate from what they were by failing to provide satisfactory answers for the whole Titor/Flood/shutdown angle.
If we assume that all fans follow the idea that everything has to be like WWE then everything is a lost cause and there is no point in anyone doing anything.
the common thing is that executives don't start paying attention to detail until the show starts to bum. ROH is thriving right now, so Delirious has space to work, but surely he had talks with them early on, and if it starts to tank too, i'm sure they're gonna do some of those drastic changes. If 'The Elite' do end up going to WWE one day, expect ROH to change A LOT, and not necessarily back to basics.

I'm not saying ALL fans are like that, but it's been a majority for the last 20 years since WWE took control over the industry. We see it all the time with people giving indies a chance and saying things like 'production value is shit', 'language barriers', 'no psychology', 'vanilla midgets coughDozercough'. I mean, we're a really niche site in the web, we may be a small group as it is, but it's usually just you and me following ROH/Impact/NJPW, not to mention wXw, PROGRESS, PWG, etc. Things may be changing now, but it will come with things like the Bullet Club that you hate.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests