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BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 15th, '19, 20:38
by Big Red Machine
WWE TLC 2019 (12/15/2019)- Minneapolis, MN


PRE-SHOW:
HUMBERTO CARRILLO vs. ANDRADE “CIEN” ALMAS (w/Zelina Vega)- 7.25/10
Andrade & Zelina don’t look anywhere near as confident as usual after their miscue on Raw. This was an excellent opener, and a great illustration of why you all should have been watching 205 Live for the past two years. Andrade blamed his loss on Zelina for no real reason.


MAIN SHOW:
Bray Wyatt is now happily shooting promotional voiceovers for the company’s PPV’s. Whatever people found cool about this character is surely now all gone.


LADDER MATCH FOR THE WWE SMACKDOWN TAG TEAM TITLES: The New Day (Kofi Kingston & Big E.)(c) vs. The Revival- 7.5/10
Everyone worked hard and took risks. They tried some new things but… it’s a ladder match. We’ve seen it all already. I was actually a little disappointed that The Revival didn’t try to work limbs a little more, just to make this match different.

KAYLA BRAXTON INTERVIEWS BARON CORBIN- fine, I guess. It would have been good if he wasn’t forced to add in the part about having to use tables ladders and chairs. Why are they trying to tell the match when everyone watching this has already bought the PPV?

ALEISTER BLACK vs. BUDDY MURPHY- 8/10
Again… aren’t you all sad you didn’t watch 205 Live? These guys had an awesome match. Both men tried to win via knockout, and to help that story, Murphy worked over Aleister’s jaw. The blood coming from Aleister’s mouth and/or nose certainly helped visually as well. These two guys rock and this match rocked.

CHARLY CARUSO INTERVIEWS RUSEV- great!

WHY IS THERE A RAW RECAP IN THE MIDDLE OF MY F*CKING PPV?! Everyone who is watching a damn PPV knows the major angle from this week’s Raw!

WWE RAW TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Viking Raiders(c) vs. the OC (Karl Anderson & Luke Gallows)- 6/10
They had a good brawl that ended in a double-count-out. WHY? You have SIX WEEKS until the next PPV. Why didn’t you just do this on TV? Why piss the fans off by doing a f*ck finish on a PPV?

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- bad
The OC attacked the Viking Raiders and tried to put them through the wacky KFC-sponsored table at ringside but the Viking Raiders made a comeback and put Gallows through said wacky sponsorship table instead, so we’re not even getting any heat out of this.

MIZ PROMO- awesome babyface stuff

TLC MATCH: Roman Reigns vs. Baron Corbin- 5.5/10
This was a TLC match you can win by pinfalls because… um…
I was really enjoying this until the f*cking interferences started. Because this is Roman Reigns, of course, it took ELEVEN PEOPLE to beat him. But of course this won’t be over, so we’re going to get more of the same for weeks on end. Even when Vince has things going well with Roman, he just can’t help but go overboard with the guy.
Michael Cole was particularly insufferable here, reminding us every three minutes that there were no DQs or count-outs or whatever. My favorite commentary moment of the Cole-Graves tandem was Cole whining that Corbin isn’t a “locker room leader” just because four guys follow him, to which Graves responded “that’s four more than follow Roman Reigns.” And as we sat here watching Roman have to fight off eleven men all by himself, not one person came out to help him. Not much of a leader then, is he, if no one is willing to stand up for him.

WWE described their commentators from India as speaking “Indian” instead of Hindi. Oops.

BRAY WYATT vs. THE MIZ- 2/10
Maybe it’s be fairer to rate this as a segment, but I don’t give Bray Wyatt that kind of courtesy with all of the time of mine he’s wasted over the years. Miz beat Bray up a bunch and Bray didn’t fight back. He just laughed. Miz did the Pentagon Jr. arm-snapper but Bray jammed his shoulder back into place. Bray eventually hit one Sister Abigail on the outside and one in the ring for the win.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- meh
First a picture of The Fiend appeared on the Torn and Bray became very happy. He then went to get his giant mallet, which Michael Cole reacted to like had never seen before. Then the usual Fiend sound effects and lights began but stopped halfway, and when the lights came back on, Daniel Bryan had teleported into the ring. He tried to hide his identity with a hoodie but everyone knew who it was, which makes the announcers look like idiots. Bryan laid Bray out with the Busaiku Knee, then revealed himself to be back to his circa 2007 haircut. The American Dragon is back! He went to murder Bray with the mallet but more Fiend lighting effects happened and Bray teleported away.
Cole tried to make a point about how “everyone The Fiend has touched has changed,” which seemed like an interesting point (Balor, Rollins, Bryan), until I remembered that he had also attacked people like Jerry Lawler and Booker T, who hadn’t changed at all.
I thought that this was the usual overproduced wreck. I could have gotten behind it if they hadn’t used The Fiend’s usual cues for Bryan, too, as that sort of thing makes it clear that this is the powers that be trying to fool us rather than something happening any sort of organic way from the characters.

TABLES MATCH: Rusev vs. Bobby Lashley (w/Lana)- 6.5/10
They told a fine story with Rusev’s rubs getting worked over. Lashley got the win after Lana interfered.

THE STREET PROFITS SAY EMBARRASSING THINGS BACKSTAGE- Dawkins was urging Lashley to get a vasectomy so that he didn’t impregnate Lana. He described the process of fertilization in graphic detail. Thankfully he was soon interrupted by Roman Reigns and Baron Corbin leading a brawl through the area. The Street Profits randomly joined in.

TLC MATCH FOR THE WWE WOMEN’S TAG TEAM TITLES: Kabuki Warriors(c) vs. Charlotte Flair & Becky Lynch- 8.5/10
They used many weapons and did a lot of creative stuff. My favorite spot was when the rope the Kabuki Warriors used to tie Becky to the ladder came into play later and Asuka used it to pull the ladder over from outside of the ring. The downside here was that in a match that went so long and after seeing so many weapons shots and table-bumps already tonight, I definitely caught my mind starting to wander several times. I should not be trying to remember what year that 59-minute Tenzan vs. Kojima match happened in during a TLC match. That is one of the major downsides of just doing spots rather than crafting a real story. I’m not saying the match wasn’t awesome (I gave it an 8.5/10!), but I do think there are things they could have done better based on the spot they were in.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- bad
Remember that random brawl from backstage before? Well it has now snowballed to include the entire locker room, and they all spilled out into the area by the stage, because of course a big gaggle of eighty people fighting all stayed together and didn’t split off into separate directions. ALos, King pointed out to us that this brawl has been going on uninterrupted for THIRTY MINUTES NOW. That’s not a brawl anymore. That’s a f*cking riot! Call the police already!
Roman and Corbin went into the crowd and onto a platform while everyone else fought under them. This was done so that Roman could spear Corbin off of this ledge and onto the pile, because I guess the fans are too weak-hearted to accept that a heel won to close the show. Either that or because we didn’t get enough footage of cool stuff during the show, I guess. Or because needing eleven guys to take him down wasn’t enough protection for Roman so he had to get his revenge by the end of the night. Probably the third one.

This was a good show from WWE, I guess. It certainly had more ups than downs, but the downs came in a big chunk in the middle that is hard to shake from my mind. It was definitely well above average for WWE, and that’s for a show where none of Daniel Bryan, AJ Styles, Seth Rollins, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, Cesaro, Shinsuke Nakamura, Drew McIntyre, Cedric Alexander, Samoa Joe, Randy Orton, Ricochet, Sasha Banks, Bayley, the Usos, Mustafa Ali, and Chad Gable all didn’t wrestle.


STUPID ANNOUNCER QUOTES:
1. Michael Cole claimed that Kofi Kingston has a “stellar record in ladder matches.”
He’s 1-8!

2. Michael Cole said that he thought Dolph Ziggler had been “taken out for good” and thus wouldn’t be able to interfere in this match because Roman Reigns put him through an announcers’ table on Friday.
We see people go through an announcers’ table and continue the same f*cking match! What kind of idiot would think this would keep someone out of action two days later?

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 17th, '19, 11:31
by NWK2000
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 20:38
MAIN SHOW:
Bray Wyatt is now happily shooting promotional voiceovers for the company’s PPV’s. Whatever people found cool about this character is surely now all gone.

I would argue that's part of what makes him cool. He isn't a silent monster like Kane, and he isn't 100 percent a horror movie caricature like the Undertaker. He's a near invincible lunatic with magic powers....who also fancies himself a kids TV show host. Of course he's going to want to do sugary happy narration, that's his whole thing!

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 17th, '19, 11:59
by Bob-O
NWK2000 wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 11:31
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 20:38
MAIN SHOW:
Bray Wyatt is now happily shooting promotional voiceovers for the company’s PPV’s. Whatever people found cool about this character is surely now all gone.

I would argue that's part of what makes him cool. He isn't a silent monster like Kane, and he isn't 100 percent a horror movie caricature like the Undertaker. He's a near invincible lunatic with magic powers....who also fancies himself a kids TV show host. Of course he's going to want to do sugary happy narration, that's his whole thing!
Agreed. BRAY WYATT isn't supposed to be cool, THE FIEND is cool. It's Park and Abyss. It's the yin and the yang that make the whole thing great.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 17th, '19, 20:04
by Big Red Machine
NWK2000 wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 11:31
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 20:38
MAIN SHOW:
Bray Wyatt is now happily shooting promotional voiceovers for the company’s PPV’s. Whatever people found cool about this character is surely now all gone.

I would argue that's part of what makes him cool. He isn't a silent monster like Kane, and he isn't 100 percent a horror movie caricature like the Undertaker. He's a near invincible lunatic with magic powers....who also fancies himself a kids TV show host. Of course he's going to want to do sugary happy narration, that's his whole thing!
I don't see how this gels with Bray's behavior both in and after the Miz match and when Rollins "invaded" the funhouse and several other times. The more time has gone on, the more they have made it seem like Bray does not realize that he is The Fiend or that they are separate entities.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 17th, '19, 20:07
by Big Red Machine
Bob-O wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 11:59
NWK2000 wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 11:31
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 15th, '19, 20:38
MAIN SHOW:
Bray Wyatt is now happily shooting promotional voiceovers for the company’s PPV’s. Whatever people found cool about this character is surely now all gone.

I would argue that's part of what makes him cool. He isn't a silent monster like Kane, and he isn't 100 percent a horror movie caricature like the Undertaker. He's a near invincible lunatic with magic powers....who also fancies himself a kids TV show host. Of course he's going to want to do sugary happy narration, that's his whole thing!
Agreed. BRAY WYATT isn't supposed to be cool, THE FIEND is cool. It's Park and Abyss. It's the yin and the yang that make the whole thing great.
Park and Abyss stunk, but your comparison is not far off because the reason people liked Park was because it combined campiness with insider references, just like Firefly Funhouse. And I don't think The Fiend is supposed to be cool. he's supposed to be scary. He's Jason Vorhees, not the Terminator.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 17th, '19, 20:25
by Bob-O
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:04
The more time has gone on, the more they have made it seem like Bray does not realize that he is The Fiend or that they are separate entities.
Correct. His reaction to The Fiend showing up on the Tron at TLC solidified this for me. I've also accepted that they won't be explaining why Funhouse Bray knows he's the champion despite The Fiend winning it.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:07
And I don't think The Fiend is supposed to be cool. he's supposed to be scary. He's Jason Vorhees, not the Terminator.
Jason Vorhees IS cool, though. I geeked out hardcore when Jason f*cked up Freddy! It's a different kind of "cool", but I don't think anything about The Fiend angle was supposed to come off as "Terminator" cool.

Don't confuse this with me being OK with how they're writing this at all, because I'll agree that they shot their load waaay too early with Funhouse Bray, but the whole thing is still pretty cool. Jason Vorhees cool.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 17th, '19, 20:48
by Big Red Machine
Bob-O wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:25
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:04
The more time has gone on, the more they have made it seem like Bray does not realize that he is The Fiend or that they are separate entities.
Correct. His reaction to The Fiend showing up on the Tron at TLC solidified this for me. I've also accepted that they won't be explaining why Funhouse Bray knows he's the champion despite The Fiend winning it.
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:07
And I don't think The Fiend is supposed to be cool. he's supposed to be scary. He's Jason Vorhees, not the Terminator.
Jason Vorhees IS cool, though. I geeked out hardcore when Jason f*cked up Freddy! It's a different kind of "cool", but I don't think anything about The Fiend angle was supposed to come off as "Terminator" cool.
That's because Freddie is scary, too, and the point of those movies was to see them fight. You don't watch Halloween and think Jason is cool. You watch Terminator and think that the Terminator is cool because they give him these lines and moments. They were setting up to turn the Terminator babyface if they wanted to. That was never the case with Jason. I don't think they have done anything to try to get The Fiend cheered. Everything they have done has been to make you worried for the babyface.

Bob-O wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:25
Don't confuse this with me being OK with how they're writing this at all, because I'll agree that they shot their load waaay too early with Funhouse Bray, but the whole thing is still pretty cool. Jason Vorhees cool.
It's not cool. It's Bray Wyatt doing magic, having dumb special effects, and cutting promos that don't mean anything. How does it become cool once you throw a mask on him and have him stop selling?

People latched onto it because they thought they saw clues. Those clues wound up meaning nothing, but people still like it because it it's goofy and this is pro wrestling in 2019. Then they like The Fiend because they like Funhouse Bray and his stupid puppets.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 18th, '19, 14:13
by Bob-O
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:48
You don't watch HalloweenFriday The 13th and think Jason is cool.
ftfy, and YOU might not, but A LOT of people do. They're not supposed to, but all the same people that are buying up Fiend merch were most likely watching those movies to see Jason rip apart some shitass teenagers. So much so, and I don't care for horror movies, but it's clear that it's what these movies bank on. The posters don't feature the shitass teenagers, they feature Freddy, Jason, Chucky, Mike Myers... people aren't buying tickets because they're scared and want to see how that stinkin' villain gets foiled this time...
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 17th, '19, 20:48
It's not cool. It's Bray Wyatt doing magic, having dumb special effects, and cutting promos that don't mean anything. How does it become cool once you throw a mask on him and have him stop selling?
Uh... because you throw a mask on him and have him stop selling, of course!

What the hell, I haven't had worms in a while, let's crack a can...

How is this any different than Kane? They threw a mask on Isaac Yankem, had him stop selling, gave him cool magic tricks, and gave him a nonsensical storyline about being Undertaker's brother... burned up in a fire... Paul Bearer's the father... got his voice back... lost the mask, apparently NOT burned up in a fire... literally put him in a horror movie WHILE HE WAS A BABYFACE...

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 18th, '19, 14:42
by Big Red Machine
Kane and yankem were kayfabe different people. No carryover baggage. Also Kane did magic about twice, and the segment was only dine to prove that he was Taker's bro via having the same powers. Bray Wyatt does magic because that's all WWE knows how to do with him.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 18th, '19, 17:00
by Bob-O
Doesn't Kane do magic during every entrance? I thought the posts igniting was supposed to be him summoning the flames of hell. If it's not magic, then he's just choreographing which is much less cool.
"OK, now we're going to point at you and set off the pyro, try and flap your arms like a bird exactly when we point so it lines up..."
"Wouldn't it be easier if I flapped my arms and you pushed the button?"
"Good point. What sounds better in the booth? Point and flap, or flap and push?"


I'd rather think it was magic.

Honestly, I think the only difference is that Kane is 7 feet tall (*cough*allegedly*cough*) so the mask is far more intimidating and no-selling is far more believable. When giant ass Kane gets up and dusts himself off like nothing happened, you don't have to believe in magic you just have to believe in indestructible giants. When 6'3" Bray Wyatt does it with his potbelly, you're forced into some other explanation to rationalize it...

The concept and story of both is equally absurd, and I enjoy them both. Kane's just had 20 years and plenty of gaps in his story for us to forget the silliness of it all before they move on. Bray's entire career has been 20 years shoved into a 10 year bag. Most of his story arcs I feel like are meant to take 6 months, they start out awesome and everyone loves them, then they're given 6 weeks to get to the payoff, leaving them with a blown load and nothing to do with him but improvise. Given the parties involved, I was rather impressed with how things are going with The Fiend until Normal Bray got in the ring.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 18th, '19, 17:06
by Big Red Machine
Bob-O wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 17:00
Doesn't Kane do magic during every entrance? I thought the posts igniting was supposed to be him summoning the flames of hell. If it's not magic, then he's just choreographing which is much less cool.
"OK, now we're going to point at you and set off the pyro, try and flap your arms like a bird exactly when we point so it lines up..."
"Wouldn't it be easier if I flapped my arms and you pushed the button?"
"Good point. What sounds better in the booth? Point and flap, or flap and push?"


I'd rather think it was magic.

Honestly, I think the only difference is that Kane is 7 feet tall (*cough*allegedly*cough*) so the mask is far more intimidating and no-selling is far more believable. When giant ass Kane gets up and dusts himself off like nothing happened, you don't have to believe in magic you just have to believe in indestructible giants. When 6'3" Bray Wyatt does it with his potbelly, you're forced into some other explanation to rationalize it...

The concept and story of both is equally absurd, and I enjoy them both. Kane's just had 20 years and plenty of gaps in his story for us to forget the silliness of it all before they move on. Bray's entire career has been 20 years shoved into a 10 year bag. Most of his story arcs I feel like are meant to take 6 months, they start out awesome and everyone loves them, then they're given 6 weeks to get to the payoff, leaving them with a blown load and nothing to do with him but improvise. Given the parties involved, I was rather impressed with how things are going with The Fiend until Normal Bray got in the ring.
Totally disagree. The problem with Bray's stories is that they never went anywhere. Pretty much every single one of them was "Bray will say some cryptic stuff, then he'll do spooky magic to get in the other guy's head or attack them" rinse, wash, repeat for months on end. The stories had no substance to the, and no feeling of progression. Events from week to week never mattered. Kane HAS had that kind of stuff for as long as he was full time.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 18th, '19, 20:16
by Bob-O
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 17:06
Totally disagree. The problem with Bray's stories is that they never went anywhere. Pretty much every single one of them was "Bray will say some cryptic stuff, then he'll do spooky magic to get in the other guy's head or attack them" rinse, wash, repeat for months on end. The stories had no substance to the, and no feeling of progression. Events from week to week never mattered. Kane HAS had that kind of stuff for as long as he was full time.
Oh, I wouldn't say as long as he was full time. It got sprinkled in nicely when it was convenient, but let's not pretend like Tag Team Kane never happened. Let's not forget about the painful jobber to the stars years or Commissioner Kane... which, if I remember correctly, to segway out of that mess - they literally put a mask on him and had him quit selling to make him cool again.

I'd argue that Bray has at least been consistent during his time. His character has seen some transitions, but they've been logical to the character and stay true to a theme. I'd even go as far as to say that this Fun House Bray ties right into OG Cult Leader Bray and suddenly all the weird Wyatt Family stuff that happened inbetween makes a bit more sense. His feuds got a little predictable, but EVERYTHING WWE has done up until the last year or so has been either predictable or illogical, or in most cases both. I don't see Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt hugging any time soon, and if they did my skin would crawl... that's what consistency does for a character like this.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 18th, '19, 21:51
by Big Red Machine
Bob-O wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 20:16
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 17:06
Totally disagree. The problem with Bray's stories is that they never went anywhere. Pretty much every single one of them was "Bray will say some cryptic stuff, then he'll do spooky magic to get in the other guy's head or attack them" rinse, wash, repeat for months on end. The stories had no substance to the, and no feeling of progression. Events from week to week never mattered. Kane HAS had that kind of stuff for as long as he was full time.
Oh, I wouldn't say as long as he was full time. It got sprinkled in nicely when it was convenient, but let's not pretend like Tag Team Kane never happened. Let's not forget about the painful jobber to the stars years or Commissioner Kane... which, if I remember correctly, to segway out of that mess - they literally put a mask on him and had him quit selling to make him cool again.
But everything he did was part of some story or another, moving forward. He didn't just put on the mask one day; he put on the mask because he needed it's mystical mojo to destroy his bosses' enemy, Daniel Bryan. His tag teams usually had direction. As a JTTS he was involved in stories and being used to put newer people over.

Bob-O wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 20:16
I'd argue that Bray has at least been consistent during his time. His character has seen some transitions, but they've been logical to the character and stay true to a theme. I'd even go as far as to say that this Fun House Bray ties right into OG Cult Leader Bray and suddenly all the weird Wyatt Family stuff that happened inbetween makes a bit more sense. His feuds got a little predictable, but EVERYTHING WWE has done up until the last year or so has been either predictable or illogical, or in most cases both. I don't see Daniel Bryan and Bray Wyatt hugging any time soon, and if they did my skin would crawl... that's what consistency does for a character like this.
The character has been "consistent" because he has been so one-note. He has done the same thing over and over again. He hasn't developed in any way or really done anything other than do magic at people.
Look at what he actually did on the main roster. Blank NXT out from your mind. Looking only at what he did on the main roster, there is more evidence to support him being (as Filthy Tom famously put it) a "fat dirty wizard" with some followers than an actual cult leader. Jimmy Jacobs and Raven would actually recruit people into their cults, and us fans would sit there and hope that Necro Butcher would open his eyes and listen to what Austin Aries was telling him and leave the Age of the Fall because Jimmy Jacobs clearly cared more about his own goals than about Necro.
We never got anything even remotely close to that with Bray Wyatt. The only two people we ever saw join his cult both did so in order to infiltrate it and take him down (and with Bryan his method of doing so was unclear, while with Randy he wanted to learn how to disable Bray's magic, which is a point in favor of wizard, not cult leader). When other members of his cult left him they just left with no hard feelings, and mostly kept being the same people, doing the same "big mean guy" character.

If you want to see Bray Wyatt as a cult leader, check out my big WWE fantasy-booking thread. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but simply to illustrate a contrast between what their Bray Wyatt does and what mine does. The way he recruits his targets by using well-placed words to get into their heads, or the way he manipulates poor Bo Dallas who still sees him as Cousin Husky, who had disappeared and Bo thought he'd never see again. Struggling with Sting for the soul of Ryback or Seth Rollins' impassioned pleas to his sometimes best friend sometimes mortal enemy Dean Ambrose to see how Bray is using him. And the way Bray betrays himself when someone in his "family" dares to stand up to him and show dissension.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 19th, '19, 12:13
by KILLdozer
Wow...tons to reply to here...about the point of "Funhouse Bray knowing he's the champion even though The Fiend won it.

What about this...HE'S NOT the champion. The one time I remember him mentioning it was when he "won it, or didn't ", so to speak, he just called it a new toy, then he said The Fiend has one too. Every time it's been defended it was The Fiend, who won and holds it. The one and only time we saw Funhouse Bray battle, it was not a title match. Going off of the "separate people and he sees it as such " theories...a man that doesn't win the belt obviously isn't the champion and therefore can't defend it against The Miz.

In closing, The Fiend is the champion and holds the title. This also brings me to a long callback of "Do you want me to get THE FIEND?", In a funhouse segment where they were arguing over something and he threatened to go and bring him there as if he's another person entirely. Wyatt in the Funhouse is another character now doing his own things without the title. I'd still like to know how and why this was the first time he left the funhouse and was actually seen on screen with other wrestlers 2 weeks ago with The Miz.

Why did he never do it before? Was it because there was no past issue with The Miz so The Fiend didn't care and Wyatt just did his own thing? Did The Fiend "allow" him to escape the funhouse to handle it himself? Is the funhouse entirely a manifestation of sorts done by The Fiend who controls it and it's all some symbolization of it all and he's "the puppet master"?
I find it interesting about the thing with "ripping his hair off", with Bryan, then the next week he's finally an onscreen character NOT in the Funhouse...as if somehow he was able to "cross over" from the ethereal world of the Funhouse, using it as a physical link or some shit to "The real world and reality".

Which then takes us to how The Fiend is able to exist in "The wrestling world. ", He simply does. He doesn't need such a thing because he is ever-present. Above and beyond needing something to hold him down and attach himself to the plane of existence as Wyatt does. Or maybe you could move away from that logic entirely, saying he just doesn't need it because he's already there and doesn't require anything of the sort because he's not Wyatt, stuck in the manifestation of another existence, who NEEDS a way out.

Brings me to another point-does The Fiend KNOW Wyatt is out and about? Yes, obviously judging from TLC. That would bring me to an idea of he could even be held captive by him in the Funhouse, unable to escape and The Fiend is out here fuckin' shit until somehow some way Wyatt gets his hand on the "Daniel Bryan hair", which then ties and bounds him to reality, and sets up his emergence. Then again, are he and The Fiend opposing entities? I'm not sure I'd say that entirely, as he's even spoke of him as somehow he associates himself with in a jovial friendly manner. Then you could relate that to a notion of them being some sort of rivals, like The Fiend wanted him out of the way, but I don't think that goes with any of the above theories.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 19th, '19, 16:24
by KILLdozer
Then again, that could all be WAAAAAYYYYY too much for WWE and more Lucha Underground style booking actually.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 19th, '19, 21:35
by Bob-O
KILLdozer wrote:
Dec 19th, '19, 12:13
In closing, The Fiend is the champion and holds the title. This also brings me to a long callback of "Do you want me to get THE FIEND?", In a funhouse segment where they were arguing over something and he threatened to go and bring him there as if he's another person entirely. Wyatt in the Funhouse is another character now doing his own things without the title.
It's a solid theory, except Bray brought the blue belt (not the 'Fiend Belt'...) to the ring with him at TLC for his match with Miz...
Image

Around his waste, as the champion. Maybe this is why The Fiend gets his own belt, to help out with the paradox? But, I don't like Bray getting to pick and choose with his schizophrenia. If The Fiend in his mind is a separate entity, Fun House Bray shouldn't be recognizing himself as the champion. I'd prefer much more for them to run an angle where Fun House Bray is afraid of the belt... "Ooooh, no no no... we don't touch that. That belongs to The Fiend, we don't want to make him angry... he doesn't like it when we touch his things..."

But that ties right into...
KILLdozer wrote:
Dec 19th, '19, 16:24
Then again, that could all be WAAAAAYYYYY too much for WWE
and
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 18th, '19, 21:51
If you want to see Bray Wyatt as a cult leader, check out my big WWE fantasy-booking thread. I'm not trying to toot my own horn here but simply to illustrate a contrast between what their Bray Wyatt does and what mine does.
BRM, you SHOULD pat yourself on the back. Your fantasy booking is phenomenal! Dozer, your ideas for this are great! I wrote an angle for Bray years ago that (tl;dr version) had him winning MITB with no intention of cashing it in, instead using the briefcase to recruit Curtis Axel to The Wyatt Family and getting the title on him. Having power over the champion meant more to him than actually winning it... turned into a pretty nifty feud with The Authority... Axel came out the main event star that Heyman couldn't make him... I was pretty proud of it!

What makes Bray so enticing is that his entire run has been a series of writing prompts. His "rambling promos" that don't lead to anything is just begging our imaginations to take off every week. Despite all the losing, I think this is what's kept him relevant all this time... some guys go to YouTube or Twitter, Bray punches us right in the creative side.

I think Bray has developed and progressed just fine, the issue is never coming out of any of those angles on top. Since he lost... every. single. one of those stories, things felt a lot like rinse and repeat. You yourself outlined what sounds to me like a pretty interesting character development. The Fun House itself is amazing because it's called back or given a nod to almost everything up until this point... that's not something WWE does...

Dozer hit the nail on the head, it is WAAAY too much for WWE. It's so easy to shit on him when we come up with so much better, but I'm going to give the 'A' for effort and appreciate it for what it is.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 20th, '19, 07:46
by Big Red Machine
Bray staying relevant via making our imaginations flow is fine, but as Bray himself is proof of, if nothing he says ever winds up feeling like it was relevant and thus not worth pouring over, the character dies. That's what happened to the original main roster Bray. People started to tuning is promos out. It was more about that than him not winning. A heel who loses every feud can still inflict lots of harm on the babyface along the way

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 21st, '19, 21:43
by Bob-O
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 20th, '19, 07:46
Bray staying relevant via making our imaginations flow is fine, but as Bray himself is proof of, if nothing he says ever winds up feeling like it was relevant and thus not worth pouring over, the character dies. That's what happened to the original main roster Bray. People started to tuning is promos out. It was more about that than him not winning. A heel who loses every feud can still inflict lots of harm on the babyface along the way
We're talking about WWE, though. When has WWE/Vince capitalized on a "strong loss", or progressed somebody through a strong showing in the angle? I can't come up with a storyline/character arc in the last decade or more that produced what you're expecting. WWE has conditioned it's "universe" not to expect much moving forward from the guy getting pinned. I might be sleeping on Yes! Movement Daniel Bryan, but I personally didn't care for it at all so I'm looking back with bias. Point being, along with Dozer's "waaaay too much" comment, hating on The Fiend for how it's being written is like ordering a Hot N Ready from Little Caesars and being pissed that it's not as good as the Pizzeria down the street. We should know what to expect by now since we eat it four nights a week.

If you go into it expecting continuity, consequence, and logic after all this time I don't know what to tell you. I could write just as much about things they're doing with Bray that I think are stupid too, but I'll at least admit that this is the closest they've come to striking gold in a very very long time. Something original, intriguing, and something that does seem to progress from week to week. Something unpredictable and genuinely interesting. Something that makes me want to tune in, which I haven't felt the urge to do in 2019.

Re: BRM Reviews WWE TLC 2019

Posted: Dec 21st, '19, 21:53
by Big Red Machine
Bob-O wrote:
Dec 21st, '19, 21:43
Big Red Machine wrote:
Dec 20th, '19, 07:46
Bray staying relevant via making our imaginations flow is fine, but as Bray himself is proof of, if nothing he says ever winds up feeling like it was relevant and thus not worth pouring over, the character dies. That's what happened to the original main roster Bray. People started to tuning is promos out. It was more about that than him not winning. A heel who loses every feud can still inflict lots of harm on the babyface along the way
We're talking about WWE, though. When has WWE/Vince capitalized on a "strong loss", or progressed somebody through a strong showing in the angle? I can't come up with a storyline/character arc in the last decade or more that produced what you're expecting. WWE has conditioned it's "universe" not to expect much moving forward from the guy getting pinned. I might be sleeping on Yes! Movement Daniel Bryan, but I personally didn't care for it at all so I'm looking back with bias.
They've done semi-successfully it just recently with Humberto Carrillo, and they try to do it every week. That's why the announcers always tell that whichever midcarder loses to the top name "put up a great fight" or was "very game," etc.
Bob-O wrote:
Dec 21st, '19, 21:43
If you go into it expecting continuity, consequence, and logic after all this time I don't know what to tell you. I could write just as much about things they're doing with Bray that I think are stupid too, but I'll at least admit that this is the closest they've come to striking gold in a very very long time. Something original, intriguing, and something that does seem to progress from week to week. Something unpredictable and genuinely interesting. Something that makes me want to tune in, which I haven't felt the urge to do in 2019.
I think people need to start distinguishing between "I like it" and "it's good," if we're going to lower our standards just to find something that we like.