BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

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BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 29th, '21, 22:10

VIDEO PACKAGE EXPLAINING HOW ADAM PAGE IS A COWBOY- good
I didn’t like the Dark Order guys being featured so prominently in the beginning the same way Page was because that made this feel goofy and because it really wasn’t about them, but this did an answer a long-standing question of mine (“how, exactly, is Adam Page a cowboy if he doesn’t do anything cowboy-like other than his manner of dress?), so I can’t really complain to much that they came up with a decent answer.
Jim Ross insisted- multiple times- that the Dark Order were “an all-star team.” He really said that.

TEN MAN ELIMINATION TAG TEAM MATCH IN WHICH IF ADAM PAGE & THE DARK ORDER WIN, ADAM PAGE GETS AN AEW WORLD TITLE SHOT AND TWO MEMBERS OF THE DARK ORDER GET AN AEW WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE SHOT, BUT IF THEY LOSE, THEN ADAM PAGE MUST FORFEIT HIS SPOT IN THE TOP FIVE RANKINGS: Adam Page & the Dark Order (Evil Uno, Stu Grayson, John Silver, & Alex Reynolds) (w/the Dark Order) vs. The Elite (Kenny Omega, the Young Bucks, Doc Gallows, & Karl Anderson) (w/Michael Nakazawa & Brandon Cutler)- 7/10
The Elite came out with basketball-style introductions, wearing basketball jerseys, and were dribbling basketballs. What is the purpose of this crap? Is the person who is entertained by “It’s supposed to be wrestling, but they’re doing it like it’s basketball, lol!” really someone you want to cater to? Is that person even smart enough to figure out how to order a PPV, or buy a t-shirt on the internet, or buy a ticket?
And don’t give me any of that “it shows that they’re not taking the Dark Order seriously” crap. There are a million ways you can show that without having guys who are supposed to be main eventers act like clowns. And I don’t care about the Space Jam tie-in, either. You can do that with guys who aren’t supposed to be main eventers.
The majority of the match was a bunch of action spots. Eventually we got down to Page fighting on his own against Kenny and the Bucks, and they had to cheat to beat him. I don’t have a problem with Page losing here if AEW uses it to actually TELL THE STORY of Page needing to find his confidence again. You can’t just ignore the issue for a month and then say it magically happened.
I thought the dirty finish was the right call, but I thought that having it be the same finish by which Page cost the Bucks their tag title shot was a mistake, because it just reminds us that the Bucks do have a legitimate reason to be angry at Page.

ALEX MARVEZ IS SUPPOSED TO BE INTERVIEWING THE DEATH TRIANGLE, BUT INSTEAD IT’S ONLY PAC- meh
The story is that someone cancelled the Lucha Bros. car so they’re still at the airport. Obviously, the person who made the phony call to get the car cancelled is in the wrong, but why can’t they just get another rental car? It shouldn’t be that much of a problem. Certainly not if their flight arrived a reasonable amount of time before bell-time.
Chavo and Andrade strolled up to Pac. Chavo claimed that Andrade’s people have called a limo for the Lucha Bros. Chavo then explained to Pac what a limo was. I guess he was insulting Pac by implying that he was poor? Or maybe dumb? I don’t know. It was an awkward line.
Then Andrade said something that I did not understand at all. This is the first time that I haven’t been able to understand his English.

RICKY STARKS’ FTW CHAMPIONSHIP CELEBRATION- bad
Will Hobbs isn’t here because he’s “out recruiting.” This had better be a pretty special prospect he is talking to if he’s missing a show for it. I’m not saying that’s not a valid excuse, but it’s the sort of line that feels like such an ass-pull that I would really, really love to see it actually be a hint of something rather than just a throwaway line.
Starks cut a very good promo on Cage, but I REALLY hope that line about Cage not checking up on Starks when Starks broke his neck is supposed to be a lie, because that would definitely make the guy you’re trying to turn babyface come off as a lot less likable. And speaking of making the guy youre trying to turn babyface a lot less likable..
Brian Cage eventually decided that he had heard enough. He marched down the aisle… and instead of attacking the people who had betrayed him, HE ATTACKED THE INNOCENT MUSICIANS. One of them he even attacked FROM BEHIND! How f*cking stupid can you be!
Let me put this in terms that Brian Cage and Cody (he’s the one supposedly booking the men’s singles division, right?) can understand: This is like Wolverine going into the Hellfire Club to stop their evil plan, but instead of going for Sebatian Shaw or the goons, he starts stabbing the waitstaff.
Cage finally got into the ring. Starks just stood there like an idiot instead of running away. Cage took a trombone with him, but instead of trying to hit Starks with it, he broke it over his own knee to show Starks his strength… so Starks just threw the flowers he was holding into Cage’s face to distract him and ran away… and Cage just stood there in the ring afterwards, watching Starks slowly retreat up the ramp instead of chasing after him again.
So, to recap, our new babyface is an asshole, an idiot, and very lazy. That’s a good start to a babyface turn.

HIROSHI TANAHASHI PROMO- fine
He wants to challenge the winner of tonight’s US Title match. If this match happens on AEW TV or PPV, it’s kind of a big deal for AEW, but for me, personally, I’ve seen enough Tanahashi (including in the US) that, while I’m certain the match will be great (assuming it’s Archer and not Hikuleo, of course), it’s just not that exciting to me.

FTR (w/Tully Blanchard) vs. THE INNER CIRCLE (Santana & Ortiz) (w/Konnan)- 5.75/10
This was a mess, but I’m going to assume that Cash Wheeler’s injury was legitimate and that that screwed up everything they had planned, and then someone in the back made the call to just bring this one home and save the time for something else. That being said, FTR winning clean- especially when it was now a two-on-one situation seems like absolutely the wrong finish. Let them win dirty, or have LAX win clean and then have FTR complain about it being unfair.

EARLIER TODAY, TONY SCHIAVONE INTERVIEWS DR. BRITT BAKER, DMD- great
If only the fans would play along and actually boo her.

TONY SCHIAVONE MAKES “THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT- bad
It’s that AEW is coming to the United Center in August for another show with a name. That’s not a big deal! Yes, it makes everyone following the internet news think CM Punk is going to show up on that show and thus it got the crowd to chant for Punk, but if you’re not an internet fan, you have no idea why this is different than any other show with a name (which has been the past six weeks or so, and will continue for the next four at least). If you want to do a “big announcement” about the Punk thing, just say that Punk is coming in. The way they did this felt like they tried to pass off something routine as a huge deal.

ALEX MARVEZ INTERVIEWS DARBY ALLIN (& STING)- MUCH better… until the end
Darby said something that makes perfect sense without the context of Bryan and/or Punk coming in, but feels like a much bigger deal with them coming in (and Darby vs. Bryan should be tremendous).
And then the announcers killed it by portraying it as “big news,” when it’s just a promo. AEW needs to knock it off with this “clubhouse” sh*t. They are teasing this news in the most alienating way possible to any casual fan who might have decided to give them a try.

IWGP UNITED STATES HEAVYWEIGHT TITLE MATCH: Lance Archer (w/Jake “the Snake” Roberts) vs. Hikuleo (w/Haku)- 5.5/10
Archer won a meh brawl cleanly.

MALACHAI BLACK JUMPS CODY RHODES DURING AN INTERVIEW WITH ALEX MARVEZ- pretty good
This was a good brawl. Black won with a knee that Excalibur referred to as a “live round.” THEY’RE ALL LIVE ROUND, BECAUSE YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO PRETEND IT’S REAL, YOU MORON!
Black knelt down next to Cody and said things that we mostly couldn’t hear because of the crowd, so hopefully what he said wasn’t important to the storyline.
Road agents and even some of the younger undercard babyfaces came out to check on Cody. Remember four months ago when the Factory were going to murder Cody with stairs and no one came out to help him. Well this time, when he got a just a knee in the face, people we haven’t seen interact with him before like Fuego del Sol and Dante Martin came out to make sure he was okay. And while these people who we’ve never even seen Cody interact with before are there checking on him, do you know who wasn’t there? ANYONE FROM THE NIGHTMARE FAMILY! There are about fifty people in that stable!
The reason for this soon became clear: We needed these undercard nobodies to come check on Cody so that Malachai Black could knock one of them out with his finish kick for no reason other than to be evil. I’m sure this might seem like a nit-pick to some, but it’s actually a big deal, because the more you have things seem to happen solely because the plot requires it, the more scripted the show feels, and thus the harder it is to immerse yourself in the fictional universe.

MIRO PROMO- great

CHRISTIAN CAGE & JURASSIC EXPRESS (Luchasaurus & Jungle Boy) (w/Marko Stunt) vs. HARDY FAMILY OFFICE (Angelico & Private Party) (w/Matt Hardy)- 6/10
Babyfaces win clean. The announcers pushed Christian as a top contender.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- didn’t like it
The Blade jumps out of the crowd and knocks Christian out with his brass knuckles. The execution here was very good, but there are a few things that bother me about the booking. They’re all relatively little things, but they added up to me feeling more negative towards this than positive.
1. I don’t like that the Blade is now back with the HFO after being nowhere near them for the first part of the Hardy vs. Christian feud because he was off having his own feud with Orange Cassidy. That sort of “people can only be involved in one thing at a time, so we’ll keep them out of a feud they should logically be involved in just because they’re involved in this other feud” feels very WWE to me
2. Him running in and hitting Christian from behind with the knucks feels like a rehash of the Orange Cassidy feud that The Blade just got done with. I realize there are only so many things you can do with brass knuckles, but we just had him run in and knock someone out from behind with brass knuckles last week.
3. The way the announcers framed this win made it feel like Christian was headed up the card, towards Kenny Omega, and with them having temporarily moved Adam Page out of the title picture, that makes all the sense in the world. This is not the time to place Christian in a diversionary feud. This is the time to have him beat Matt and then challenge (and lose to) Omega.



Q.T. Marshall wants to wait until next week to apologize to Tony Schiavone so that Tony’s family can be in attendance. I’d ask how stupid Tony would have to be to not see this coming, but… well… it’s Tony Schiavone.

NICK GAGE VIDEO PACKAGE/PROMO- very good… but I think Nick Gage’s promos actually do lose something when he can’t say naughty words.

VARISTY BLONDS & JULIA HART PROMO- The guys did all of her talking for her. This was passable.

THUNDER ROSA PROMO- good babyfacestuff

THUNDER ROSA vs. JULIA HART (w/the Varsity Blonds)- 3.75/10
Thunder Rosa won a short match cleanly. By my count (which is really just Cagematch.net) Thunder Rosa has now won EIGHTEEN STRAIGHT MATCHES IN AEW. So, of course, next week on Dynamite there will be a #1 contendership match between… Leyla Hirsch and The Bunny. Yes, really.

JON MOXLEY PROMO- Mostly great, but if Moxley has been calling out Tanahashi and Tanahashi has been ducking him, that makes Tanahashi a heel.

NO DISQUALIFICATIONS MATCH IN WHICH IF CHRIS JERICHO LOSES OR ANY MEMBER OF THE INNER CIRCLE INTERFERES, HE WON’T GET ANOTHER MATCH AGAINST MJF: Chris Jericho vs. Nick Gage- 6.75/10
I’m giving them a pass on the “no rules” thing even though the Inner Cirlce can’t help stip is there because you could argue that that isn’t actually a rule for this match so much as a stipulation of Jericho getting his later match with MJF. If the Inner Circle come out and help Jericho, it’s not going to be a DQ, but it will mean that he doesn’t get the match with MJF, even if he wins this match.
Speaking of MJF, he was on commentary for this match and was great, as he always is.
I thought the way Jericho used his selling to cover his blading on that opening spot was very clever, as was the very idea of starting the match out with that small bit of blood from an unconventional weapon. It showed Gage as dangerous and also very different.
After that point, this was pretty underwhelming. It was relatively basic deathmatch stuff, and the psychology here was nowhere near the level of the Matt Cardona vs. Zack Ryder match. I never got the feeling that Jericho was out of his element here, which made the task to be overcome not feel as great.
I would say that part of the problem with that was the Pain-maker gimmick being used, but at the same time, this supposed “Pain-maker” Jericho didn’t really feel any different from normal Jericho, which made the way it was talked up on commentary both before the match and on last week’s show feel empty. To psychoanalyze a bit, I think the issue was that Jericho wanted to be the Painmaker and thus tried to structure the match like he was just as comfortable as Gage in deathmaches, but just wasn’t willing to take as much punishment and go as ultraviolent as was necessary to make that work.

MJF ANNOUNCES CHRIS JERICHO’S NEXT MATCH- It’s going to be against Juventud Guerrera, in a match where Jericho has to hit a move off the top rope in order to win. I swear I’m not making any of that up.
They tried to frame this as MJF getting one of Jericho’s most bitter rivals, but that just doesn’t ring true to me. When you ask me about Jericho’s most bitter enemies, my mind immediately goes to Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and Dean Malenko. Juvi probably doesn’t even make the top five. He’s probably even below Ambrose/Moxley. And it’s 2021! Juvi hasn’t been relevant in at least fifteen years, (and I think calling the Mexi-Cools relevant is quite generous). This feels like a huge step down from the first two labors.

This was a bad show from AEW. The big matches were all underwhelming, and most of the big moments didn’t work for me. Throw in the silliness that is the rankings in the women’s division and a lot of the other usual things that AEW gets wrong, and you’ve got a show with a big name that didn’t deliver in any way.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

Post by cero2k » Jul 30th, '21, 09:07

Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 29th, '21, 22:10 HIROSHI TANAHASHI PROMO- fine
He wants to challenge the winner of tonight’s US Title match. If this match happens on AEW TV or PPV, it’s kind of a big deal for AEW, but for me, personally, I’ve seen enough Tanahashi (including in the US) that, while I’m certain the match will be great (assuming it’s Archer and not Hikuleo, of course), it’s just not that exciting to me.
You're wrong. There is never enough Tanahashi. Never.
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 29th, '21, 22:10 TONY SCHIAVONE MAKES “THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT- bad
It’s that AEW is coming to the United Center in August for another show with a name. That’s not a big deal! Yes, it makes everyone following the internet news think CM Punk is going to show up on that show and thus it got the crowd to chant for Punk, but if you’re not an internet fan, you have no idea why this is different than any other show with a name (which has been the past six weeks or so, and will continue for the next four at least). If you want to do a “big announcement” about the Punk thing, just say that Punk is coming in. The way they did this felt like they tried to pass off something routine as a huge deal.

ALEX MARVEZ INTERVIEWS DARBY ALLIN (& STING)- MUCH better… until the end
Darby said something that makes perfect sense without the context of Bryan and/or Punk coming in, but feels like a much bigger deal with them coming in (and Darby vs. Bryan should be tremendous).
And then the announcers killed it by portraying it as “big news,” when it’s just a promo. AEW needs to knock it off with this “clubhouse” sh*t. They are teasing this news in the most alienating way possible to any casual fan who might have decided to give them a try.
Booking a 20K venue IS a big announcement, and none of this is 'clubhouse shit', if you know Punk is coming, you get it and it's great, if you live under a rock and cannot make the connection on why people chant for CM Punk, then it still works, both the announcement and the generic promo by Darby. "best in the world" doesn't have to be Punk, it could literally just the qualifier that he wants the best in the world, we JUST saw Tanahashi.

Casuals follow established and excited fanbases, you don't need to walk them by the hand.


update: THIS is why you make these announcements, because they're in the business of selling tickets.


Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 29th, '21, 22:10 THUNDER ROSA vs. JULIA HART (w/the Varsity Blonds)- 3.75/10
Thunder Rosa won a short match cleanly. By my count (which is really just Cagematch.net) Thunder Rosa has now won EIGHTEEN STRAIGHT MATCHES IN AEW. So, of course, next week on Dynamite there will be a #1 contendership match between… Leyla Hirsch and The Bunny. Yes, really.
They said Hirsch vs Bunny is for the NWA show, not for AEW title.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 30th, '21, 10:09

cero2k wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 09:07
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 29th, '21, 22:10 HIROSHI TANAHASHI PROMO- fine
He wants to challenge the winner of tonight’s US Title match. If this match happens on AEW TV or PPV, it’s kind of a big deal for AEW, but for me, personally, I’ve seen enough Tanahashi (including in the US) that, while I’m certain the match will be great (assuming it’s Archer and not Hikuleo, of course), it’s just not that exciting to me.
You're wrong. There is never enough Tanahashi. Never.
I mean... if you like watching a guy always work the leg all match and then never win with his leg submission because he wants to win with a Frog Splash instead, sure, but I'd much rather see guys like Okada and Shingo whose matches don't feel like they're insisting on getting their sh*t in.

cero2k wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 09:07
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 29th, '21, 22:10 TONY SCHIAVONE MAKES “THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT- bad
It’s that AEW is coming to the United Center in August for another show with a name. That’s not a big deal! Yes, it makes everyone following the internet news think CM Punk is going to show up on that show and thus it got the crowd to chant for Punk, but if you’re not an internet fan, you have no idea why this is different than any other show with a name (which has been the past six weeks or so, and will continue for the next four at least). If you want to do a “big announcement” about the Punk thing, just say that Punk is coming in. The way they did this felt like they tried to pass off something routine as a huge deal.

ALEX MARVEZ INTERVIEWS DARBY ALLIN (& STING)- MUCH better… until the end
Darby said something that makes perfect sense without the context of Bryan and/or Punk coming in, but feels like a much bigger deal with them coming in (and Darby vs. Bryan should be tremendous).
And then the announcers killed it by portraying it as “big news,” when it’s just a promo. AEW needs to knock it off with this “clubhouse” sh*t. They are teasing this news in the most alienating way possible to any casual fan who might have decided to give them a try.
Booking a 20K venue IS a big announcement, and none of this is 'clubhouse shit', if you know Punk is coming, you get it and it's great, if you live under a rock and cannot make the connection on why people chant for CM Punk, then it still works, both the announcement and the generic promo by Darby. "best in the world" doesn't have to be Punk, it could literally just the qualifier that he wants the best in the world, we JUST saw Tanahashi.
1. They weren't pushing it like the 20,000-seat building was the big deal. They pushed it like Chicago was the big deal.
2. People have chanted "CM PUNK!" at WWE shows (and others) a million times. That doesn't mean he's coming in. Mentioning Chicago is basically a trigger for fans to chant "CM PUNK!" the way that a Kendo stick would get them to chant "ECW!"
3. Darby's promo was, to me, exactly the way this sort of thing should be done (assuming that you decide to go this cryptic route instead of just waving a big, honking flag that says "TWO OF THE BIGGEST STARS OF THE PAST DECADE ARE COMING TO AEW!") The problem was when the announcers started framing it like there was some specific opponent Darby was talking about that you were supposed to know but no one was saying for unexplained reasons. Their winking tone is the problem.
4. These things only "work" for people who don't know if doing all of this winking stuff doesn't alienate them, and that's been a problem for AEW. People appear out of nowhere and have storyline we're supposed to know about, or they make these stupid BTE jokes that leave people who don't watch the shoulder content (which, again, Cody specifically told us we would be able to understand everything without watching) confused. I'm confused sometimes and I write reviews on the internet and subscribe to two different newsletters! How the hell is a casual fan giving the show a try going to feel?
cero2k wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 09:07
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 29th, '21, 22:10 THUNDER ROSA vs. JULIA HART (w/the Varsity Blonds)- 3.75/10
Thunder Rosa won a short match cleanly. By my count (which is really just Cagematch.net) Thunder Rosa has now won EIGHTEEN STRAIGHT MATCHES IN AEW. So, of course, next week on Dynamite there will be a #1 contendership match between… Leyla Hirsch and The Bunny. Yes, really.
They said Hirsch vs Bunny is for the NWA show, not for AEW title.
That makes it a little better, although the same question still applies. Most of Thunder Rosa's wins were while she was under NWA contract. The fact that she's not getting a title shot of any sort is silly at this point.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

Post by cero2k » Jul 30th, '21, 14:33

Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 10:09
1. They weren't pushing it like the 20,000-seat building was the big deal. They pushed it like Chicago was the big deal.
2. People have chanted "CM PUNK!" at WWE shows (and others) a million times. That doesn't mean he's coming in. Mentioning Chicago is basically a trigger for fans to chant "CM PUNK!" the way that a Kendo stick would get them to chant "ECW!"
3. Darby's promo was, to me, exactly the way this sort of thing should be done (assuming that you decide to go this cryptic route instead of just waving a big, honking flag that says "TWO OF THE BIGGEST STARS OF THE PAST DECADE ARE COMING TO AEW!") The problem was when the announcers started framing it like there was some specific opponent Darby was talking about that you were supposed to know but no one was saying for unexplained reasons. Their winking tone is the problem.
4. These things only "work" for people who don't know if doing all of this winking stuff doesn't alienate them, and that's been a problem for AEW. People appear out of nowhere and have storyline we're supposed to know about, or they make these stupid BTE jokes that leave people who don't watch the shoulder content (which, again, Cody specifically told us we would be able to understand everything without watching) confused. I'm confused sometimes and I write reviews on the internet and subscribe to two different newsletters! How the hell is a casual fan giving the show a try going to feel?
1. It's all of it, the big deal was that it was the United Center, hence 20K and that it was going to be a live show, it being in Chicago is part of it. For anyone that has heard any rumor of Punk, it doesn't take rocket surgery to put 2 and 2 together. If they had gone with a small venue, it wouldn't be a big announcement, because Punk wouldn't debut in a smaller place, especially when there is another Chicago date weeks after this rampage.

2. I doesn't mean anything, but those that know he's coming are chanting for a reason. They're creating hype and it paid off a day later with 12K ticket sells.

3. They have to lean in heavy if they plan to sell out the United Center based on 'rumors', but it's not like they straight up told you that Punk is coming. It may end up being Shane McMahon.

4. you overestimate how many people would be turned off by such a trivial thing. Casual fans are not analyzing every thing nor they're necessarily following every story and for that matter, they should know that things happen outside of what they're paying attention to. Casuals fans tune in, see the awesome energy now a days, see the wrestling, and for the most part, do not keep consistency notes.
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 10:09 That makes it a little better, although the same question still applies. Most of Thunder Rosa's wins were while she was under NWA contract. The fact that she's not getting a title shot of any sort is silly at this point.
she's the number 1 ranked, she is most likely challenging at All Out. You're really impatient with these things
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Re: BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 30th, '21, 14:59

cero2k wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 14:33
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 10:09
1. They weren't pushing it like the 20,000-seat building was the big deal. They pushed it like Chicago was the big deal.
2. People have chanted "CM PUNK!" at WWE shows (and others) a million times. That doesn't mean he's coming in. Mentioning Chicago is basically a trigger for fans to chant "CM PUNK!" the way that a Kendo stick would get them to chant "ECW!"
3. Darby's promo was, to me, exactly the way this sort of thing should be done (assuming that you decide to go this cryptic route instead of just waving a big, honking flag that says "TWO OF THE BIGGEST STARS OF THE PAST DECADE ARE COMING TO AEW!") The problem was when the announcers started framing it like there was some specific opponent Darby was talking about that you were supposed to know but no one was saying for unexplained reasons. Their winking tone is the problem.
4. These things only "work" for people who don't know if doing all of this winking stuff doesn't alienate them, and that's been a problem for AEW. People appear out of nowhere and have storyline we're supposed to know about, or they make these stupid BTE jokes that leave people who don't watch the shoulder content (which, again, Cody specifically told us we would be able to understand everything without watching) confused. I'm confused sometimes and I write reviews on the internet and subscribe to two different newsletters! How the hell is a casual fan giving the show a try going to feel?
1. It's all of it, the big deal was that it was the United Center, hence 20K and that it was going to be a live show, it being in Chicago is part of it. For anyone that has heard any rumor of Punk, it doesn't take rocket surgery to put 2 and 2 together. If they had gone with a small venue, it wouldn't be a big announcement, because Punk wouldn't debut in a smaller place, especially when there is another Chicago date weeks after this rampage.

2. I doesn't mean anything, but those that know he's coming are chanting for a reason. They're creating hype and it paid off a day later with 12K ticket sells.

3. They have to lean in heavy if they plan to sell out the United Center based on 'rumors', but it's not like they straight up told you that Punk is coming. It may end up being Shane McMahon.

4. you overestimate how many people would be turned off by such a trivial thing. Casual fans are not analyzing every thing nor they're necessarily following every story and for that matter, they should know that things happen outside of what they're paying attention to. Casuals fans tune in, see the awesome energy now a days, see the wrestling, and for the most part, do not keep consistency notes.
1. There were Punk rumors in 2018 and 2019, too, and those didn't lead to anything, and they're run Chicago before. They didn't mention the building size, so how is anyone supposed to know how many seats it has? You're thinking like a plugged-in fan and not the person they need to grab in order to grow.
2 & 3. Those tickets would have sold that quickly anyway. AEW has willing-to-travel fanbase that is very plugged in. They could have not mentioned it on TV at all and those tickets would have sold out to those people because they're sure Punk is going to be there.

4. Each incident is trivial in isolation, but they build up, both on a particular show and over time. If every time you tune in to AEW and there is something that is going on that doesn't make sense to you- not in an "I don't know the details/characters so I don't understand the story" way, but in a "I understand all of the words that are being said and seem to understand the characters, but the fans' and announcers' reactions are way out of whack" way- and no one is explaining it, it's going to make people not give the product a chance. They'll stop "maybe I'll try again in a month" attitude and just decide that they'll never understand it. If you and I, both people who write wrestling reviews on the internet and subscribe to newsletters, one of us follows AEW's social media and shoulder content, and sometimes watches the TV and one of us who watches the main show every single week- can't even agree on what this "Hidden Door" is, then how the hell is someone who doesn't follow wrestling news- or even just doesn't follow AEW news-on the internet supposed to feel when they try to watch the show?
cero2k wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 14:33
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 10:09 That makes it a little better, although the same question still applies. Most of Thunder Rosa's wins were while she was under NWA contract. The fact that she's not getting a title shot of any sort is silly at this point.
she's the number 1 ranked, she is most likely challenging at All Out. You're really impatient with these things
It's not impatience; it's logic. She's the #1 ranked contender in the division. Why should she have to wait months in order to get a title shot? Tony Khan very clearly told us all that these rankings and records would matter. The fact that we hear "Wrestler X has been the top-ranked wrestler for months" when that person has no title shot scheduled a lot more than we hear someone come out and say "I just got ranked as the #1 contender. Where's my title shot?" or hear the announcers tell us "Wrestler X is the new top-ranked wrestler this week, and he/she has been scheduled for a title shot in two weeks" is an absolutely damning expose of how poorly these rankings are used.
If you're not going to use these things in a logical manner, don' have them. It's not that hard. There is nothing stopping them from still putting a graphic on the screen telling us that someone is 9-1 in their last ten matches without also having to tell us that this person is the #1 contender and has been for months and oh by the way you've barely heard about or seen this person. These rankings and records lead to nothing but AEW digging their own plot-holes.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

Post by cero2k » Aug 3rd, '21, 12:27

Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 14:59 1. There were Punk rumors in 2018 and 2019, too, and those didn't lead to anything, and they're run Chicago before. They didn't mention the building size, so how is anyone supposed to know how many seats it has? You're thinking like a plugged-in fan and not the person they need to grab in order to grow.
2 & 3. Those tickets would have sold that quickly anyway. AEW has willing-to-travel fanbase that is very plugged in. They could have not mentioned it on TV at all and those tickets would have sold out to those people because they're sure Punk is going to be there.

4. Each incident is trivial in isolation, but they build up, both on a particular show and over time. If every time you tune in to AEW and there is something that is going on that doesn't make sense to you- not in an "I don't know the details/characters so I don't understand the story" way, but in a "I understand all of the words that are being said and seem to understand the characters, but the fans' and announcers' reactions are way out of whack" way- and no one is explaining it, it's going to make people not give the product a chance. They'll stop "maybe I'll try again in a month" attitude and just decide that they'll never understand it. If you and I, both people who write wrestling reviews on the internet and subscribe to newsletters, one of us follows AEW's social media and shoulder content, and sometimes watches the TV and one of us who watches the main show every single week- can't even agree on what this "Hidden Door" is, then how the hell is someone who doesn't follow wrestling news- or even just doesn't follow AEW news-on the internet supposed to feel when they try to watch the show?
1. Yeah, but this time around, you have most websites and journalists pretty much telling you it's going down, this time the promotion is giving us hints, if you're a fan of Punk and follow him on social media, you can see he is dropping hints and following people. It's completely different. And for the size of the building, people know these things, it's the Chicago Bulls arena, it's were Jordan won 7 championships it's been there for almost 30 years. I'm not a sports fan, I wasn't even living in the US at the time and still know those things.
Who they need to grab to grow are all those lapsed fans that are gonna see Punk and Dragon come in and say, hey, this show has awesome energy, not nerdy like WWE, I want in. It is dumb effort trying to grab people from the street, those will come if you create a product that feels cool, THAT is why they're hitting 1M+ for three weeks now, they're growing.

2.3. Not 13K tickets in 4 minutes, and not for Rampage that is untested, and if people are flying in to Chicago, they're flying in for All Out two weeks later. There is no way that place was selling out if not for the Punk hints.

4. I think that's your perspective on 'casuals' and you see them like that because maybe you're like that. If I see a show and I like what I see, I feel the energy, I finish the show and then I go googling about the show and going to twitter and youtube and listen to podcasts about it. Casuals are not paying attention at keywords like 'Forbidden door' or hints that you don't know are hints to begin with, casuals are looking at the production, the energy, the action, whether the wrestlers are hot or not, all that, not stories, not commentary.
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 14:59 It's not impatience; it's logic. She's the #1 ranked contender in the division. Why should she have to wait months in order to get a title shot? Tony Khan very clearly told us all that these rankings and records would matter. The fact that we hear "Wrestler X has been the top-ranked wrestler for months" when that person has no title shot scheduled a lot more than we hear someone come out and say "I just got ranked as the #1 contender. Where's my title shot?" or hear the announcers tell us "Wrestler X is the new top-ranked wrestler this week, and he/she has been scheduled for a title shot in two weeks" is an absolutely damning expose of how poorly these rankings are used.
If you're not going to use these things in a logical manner, don' have them. It's not that hard. There is nothing stopping them from still putting a graphic on the screen telling us that someone is 9-1 in their last ten matches without also having to tell us that this person is the #1 contender and has been for months and oh by the way you've barely heard about or seen this person. These rankings and records lead to nothing but AEW digging their own plot-holes.
I think your problem is you take Cody's and Khan's words literal, wins and loses and records matter, but they're not the only thing in the universe, they're more like tools and guidelines.
Thunder Rosa hasn't been the top ranked since June, 9 and she had been there for only two weeks and it was when previously #1 ranked challenged and won the title, Britt moved to champ, Rosa moved to #1 and Shida was removed. Rosa just now became the #1 ranked, just now July 28th. The previous #1 ranked Nyla Rosa was the one who got the title shot.

Who was the last person/team you're saying that was #1 for months and never got a title shot? Let's analyze why they didn't get the shot, what were the stories.
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Re: BRM Reviews the 7/29/2021 Dynamite (Fight for the Fallen 2021)

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 3rd, '21, 19:39

cero2k wrote: Aug 3rd, '21, 12:27
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 14:59 1. There were Punk rumors in 2018 and 2019, too, and those didn't lead to anything, and they're run Chicago before. They didn't mention the building size, so how is anyone supposed to know how many seats it has? You're thinking like a plugged-in fan and not the person they need to grab in order to grow.
2 & 3. Those tickets would have sold that quickly anyway. AEW has willing-to-travel fanbase that is very plugged in. They could have not mentioned it on TV at all and those tickets would have sold out to those people because they're sure Punk is going to be there.

4. Each incident is trivial in isolation, but they build up, both on a particular show and over time. If every time you tune in to AEW and there is something that is going on that doesn't make sense to you- not in an "I don't know the details/characters so I don't understand the story" way, but in a "I understand all of the words that are being said and seem to understand the characters, but the fans' and announcers' reactions are way out of whack" way- and no one is explaining it, it's going to make people not give the product a chance. They'll stop "maybe I'll try again in a month" attitude and just decide that they'll never understand it. If you and I, both people who write wrestling reviews on the internet and subscribe to newsletters, one of us follows AEW's social media and shoulder content, and sometimes watches the TV and one of us who watches the main show every single week- can't even agree on what this "Hidden Door" is, then how the hell is someone who doesn't follow wrestling news- or even just doesn't follow AEW news-on the internet supposed to feel when they try to watch the show?
1. Yeah, but this time around, you have most websites and journalists pretty much telling you it's going down, this time the promotion is giving us hints, if you're a fan of Punk and follow him on social media, you can see he is dropping hints and following people. It's completely different. And for the size of the building, people know these things, it's the Chicago Bulls arena, it's were Jordan won 7 championships it's been there for almost 30 years. I'm not a sports fan, I wasn't even living in the US at the time and still know those things.
Who they need to grab to grow are all those lapsed fans that are gonna see Punk and Dragon come in and say, hey, this show has awesome energy, not nerdy like WWE, I want in. It is dumb effort trying to grab people from the street, those will come if you create a product that feels cool, THAT is why they're hitting 1M+ for three weeks now, they're growing.

2.3. Not 13K tickets in 4 minutes, and not for Rampage that is untested, and if people are flying in to Chicago, they're flying in for All Out two weeks later. There is no way that place was selling out if not for the Punk hints.

4. I think that's your perspective on 'casuals' and you see them like that because maybe you're like that. If I see a show and I like what I see, I feel the energy, I finish the show and then I go googling about the show and going to twitter and youtube and listen to podcasts about it. Casuals are not paying attention at keywords like 'Forbidden door' or hints that you don't know are hints to begin with, casuals are looking at the production, the energy, the action, whether the wrestlers are hot or not, all that, not stories, not commentary.
The casuals aren't on the websites! They're not following CM Punk on social media, and probably haven't been since he went to UFC. They're probably not following AEW on social media, so how are they going to find out about this.
So what if it's the building where Jordan won a bunch of championships? The money of the people there is just as good as the money of the people in the Target Center, and Minneapolis hasn't won sh*t. Also, Jordan only won six championships.

Sh*t like "forbidden door" absolutely is a problem. It's no different than WWE's "cult language" like "WWE Universe" that leaves first-time viewers scratching their heads.

The idea that casual fans are not attracted by stories is ridiculous. People watch to see stories pay off. The product feeling hot might get someone to stick around for a week or two, but it's not what keeps someone around for more than that, and certainly not what sells PPVs.

There are no Bryan Danielson Lapsed Fans. He hasn't been gone long enough and the numbers haven't borne it out. For Punk... maybe. How did his UFC fights do on PPV? And, again, these people aren't going to be able to find out that the show has this awesome energy if they're not following people on social media. I'm also pretty sure had the first week of over a million before the Punk/Bryan news broke.

And, just for the sake of argument, let's say that your argument is correct for 95% of people and mine is correct for the other 5%. If they do things your way, they will get 95% of the potential audience that happens to come across the show, but they do it my way, they'll get those 95% plus the other 5%. No one has ever said "I don't like this because it makes too much sense" or "I don't like this because they made a big announcement six weeks out instead of dropping cryptic hints for six weeks that I may or may not have understood and then giving me something that might have been a surprise but also maybe not because I would have figured it out weeks ago."
cero2k wrote: Aug 3rd, '21, 12:27
Big Red Machine wrote: Jul 30th, '21, 14:59 It's not impatience; it's logic. She's the #1 ranked contender in the division. Why should she have to wait months in order to get a title shot? Tony Khan very clearly told us all that these rankings and records would matter. The fact that we hear "Wrestler X has been the top-ranked wrestler for months" when that person has no title shot scheduled a lot more than we hear someone come out and say "I just got ranked as the #1 contender. Where's my title shot?" or hear the announcers tell us "Wrestler X is the new top-ranked wrestler this week, and he/she has been scheduled for a title shot in two weeks" is an absolutely damning expose of how poorly these rankings are used.
If you're not going to use these things in a logical manner, don' have them. It's not that hard. There is nothing stopping them from still putting a graphic on the screen telling us that someone is 9-1 in their last ten matches without also having to tell us that this person is the #1 contender and has been for months and oh by the way you've barely heard about or seen this person. These rankings and records lead to nothing but AEW digging their own plot-holes.
I think your problem is you take Cody's and Khan's words literal, wins and loses and records matter, but they're not the only thing in the universe, they're more like tools and guidelines.
I don't think what those two said (that we would be able to understand the storylines without watching any shoulder content; we only needed to watch Dynamite, and that the rankings and records would be important) is in any way unreasonable.
And I am in no way saying that the rankings and records are the only thing. I'm not saying that the only person allowed to have a title shot should be the #1 contender. What I'm saying is that if you have a #1-ranked contender come out and say "hey, we want a title shot," they shouldn't have to win a f*cking four-way to get it (which is what happened with SCU). Or that if someone is the #1 contender for three straight weeks, the promotion should be trying to book him/her/them in a title match. If we're supposed to think these things are important, the promotion needs to treat them as such, and that means taking actual action to illustrate their importance, not just having the announcers give lip-service to them on commentary like with WWE's many "prestigious" titles.

cero2k wrote: Aug 3rd, '21, 12:27
Thunder Rosa hasn't been the top ranked since June, 9 and she had been there for only two weeks and it was when previously #1 ranked challenged and won the title, Britt moved to champ, Rosa moved to #1 and Shida was removed. Rosa just now became the #1 ranked, just now July 28th. The previous #1 ranked Nyla Rosa was the one who got the title shot.


Who was the last person/team you're saying that was #1 for months and never got a title shot? Let's analyze why they didn't get the shot, what were the stories.
It's not that they didn't get a title shot; it's not getting one in a timely manner, and/or having to jump through some ridiculous hoop in order to get it when they should just be given a title shot if they want it by virtue of being the f*cking top-ranked contender.
There was SCU, who because the #1 contenders on March 10th. During this time, they didn't even appear on Dynamite until the April 28th show, when they came out and told the champs they wanted a title shot... so the next week the office made them beat three other teams to earn it, so that's two months right there.
Adam Page was the #1 contender for five weeks in March and April, and the idea of him getting a title shot wasn't even mentioned.
FTR were the #1 contenders from the time they lost the belts to the Bucks until February 10th (three months!) and never got a title shot.
There was Nyla Rose, who we were literally told was the #1 contender "for months" before she got her title shot last year.
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