NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

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NWK2000
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NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by NWK2000 » Jun 27th, '22, 20:40

Intro


Hey hey hey! Thought I'd come back for one more post! I went to Forbidden Door live and just thought I'd do a free form review about what happened and what I thought.


Pre-show


Justin Roberts talked about how he went to his first event in Chicago as a kid and so they brought out Negative 1.

CHAOS (Hirooki Goto & YOSHI-HASHI) vs. The Factory (QT Marshall & Aaron Solo)


I was expecting this to be a squash,. but QT and Aaron put in their most entertaining, competitive performances to date. Either QT is a wizard at being a heel while still pulling off a big dive or he shouldn't be diving, because it looked gnarly and he still got a "You Still Suck," chant for it. Anyway, Goto hit his move and picked up the duke.

5.5/10

Lance Archer vs Nick Comoroto


Your standard fare big lad match. Archer about necked himself on the dive into the ring and he looked like he took it out on poor Nick.
5/10
Swerve Strickland & Keith Lee vs Suzuki-gun (El Desperado & Yoshinobu Kanemaru)


Another one I thought was going to be a squash, but it turned out to be a highlight of the night. Swerve and Lee just couldn't seem to get it right, a good way to get over their eventual breakup and have the much smaller SG reps get believable offense in. The babyfaces still won. Special shoutout goes to Despy, who really worked the leg with multiple Stretch Mufflers.

6.5/10
Max Caster & The Gunn Club (Austin Gunn, Billy Gunn & Colten Gunn) (w/Anthony Bowens) vs Alex Coughlin, Kevin Knight, The DKC & Yuya Uemura.
While a Danhausen cameo and a chance to sing "Billy Ass and the Ass Boys," with your friends are always appreciated, this kind of made the match more chaotic than it needed to be. The Ass Boys ran to the back, so it seemed like Billy and Caster were the only ones working,, and the Young Boys came in at seemingly random. Billy Gunn is always a pleasure to see live, especially at his age, but this was still the most confusing thing on the card.

4.75/10

Main show


If Jericho's team wins, the JAS gets the advantage in Blood and Guts. If Eddie wins, his team does

The Jericho Appreciation Society (Chris Jericho & Sammy Guevara) & Minoru Suzuki (w/Tay Conti) defeated Shota Umino, Wheeler Yuta & Eddie Kingston

Beware all ye Cornette stans who enter here. This match was a wild brawl with a million jillion finishes that went forever, and the crowd ate it up. As wild a brawl as you'd expect to see going into Blood and Guts.

8.75/10

Winner takes all
FTR (Cash Wheeler & Dax Harwood) (c) [ROH] vs United Empire (Great-O-Khan & Jeff Cobb) (c) [IWGP] vs Roppongi Vice (Rocky Romero & Trent Beretta)


The story of the match was Dax's injury and heroic comeback. Unfortunately, nobody cares about UE because they've not been presented as anything other than Ospreay's goons, and nobody cares about RPG Vice because nobody thought to give Rocky a mic during the build. Luckily, what landed landed perfectly. FTR may be the best tag team in the world, it's just a shame they were given significantly less over acts to work with.

6/10
All Atlantic Championship
PAC vs Miro vs Clark Connors vs Malakai Black
[/b]

The match had two aims, to give Miro a really good showing and free PAC and the rest of Death Triangle from the House of Black feud. It did this in spades with the elimination of Miro and what happened after. I feel like the crowd wanted Miro to win but PAC got a You Deserve It chant at the end because yeah, he does. He's one of the safest high flyers in the company and deserves to be the top of a division. Also I want to see more of Clark, he did well despite his last minute inclusion.

7/10

Darby Allin, Shingo Takagi & Sting vs. The Young Bucks (Matt Jackson & Nick Jackson) & El Phantasmo (w/Hikuleo)

The Sting dive was just as wild without the camera trick. Bucks coming out to Shot 'Em got less of a pop than I expected. ELP got in his Falcon Punch to the dick which made me happy. This was a wild brawl, with plenty of Young Bucks nonsense, and the babyfaces went over.

7.5/10
AEW Women's World Championship
Thunder Rosa (c) vs. Toni Storm


Unfortunately, this was a cool down in a PPV that was in desperate need of one. That said, the crowd was about 50/50 Rosa/Toni. Felt like they're gonna turn Toni based on body language.

5.5/10

IWGP United States Heavyweight Championship

Will Ospreay (c) vs. Orange Cassidy


This was, far and away, the match of the night for me. Maybe I'm a dodo-brain, but I routinely forget Orange can work at a high level, and maybe constantly having diminished expectations makes his matches more fun, but damn these guys killed it. My only complaint is genuinely that Orange didn't win. Juice and the Bullet Club got camera time, but considering we were so far to the left we couldn't see the main titantron, we didn't see them.

9.5/10]

Post match:

UE jump orange and RPG Vice, and, in the moment of the night, KATSUYORI SHIBATA made the save. Shibata being on the Orange Cassidy hype train is an interesting choice, Orange seems like the kind of dude Shibata would make do situps until he was peeing black if he showed up in the LA Dojo.

Claudio Castagnoli vs. Zack Sabre Jr.

On a night that was sheer chaos, a long old school professional wrestling contest was more than welcome. ZSJ matches are interesting beasts, because in order to make ZSJ look good, guys have to do sequences that aren't sequences they would ever do, thus stretching kayfabe. Claudio looked right at home doing the long term working of joints. Also, the "teasing the squash" spot at the beginning was great for the live crowd, gave people time to revel in the moment.

9/10


IWGP World Heavyweight Championship

Jay White (c) (w/Gedo) vs. Kazuchika Okada vs Adam Cole vs Adam Page


Got to see Okada live!
That said, this was a bit of a weak one. It felt like they were building to something that got all messed up when Cole got his bell rung, and they can't decide whether Switchblade and Cole are enemies to save their lives.
No rating


Interim AEW World Championship


Jon Moxley vs Hiroshi Tanahashi


The "you fucked up" chants happened because someone got into a big brawl with someone else, and security when they tried to break it up.
This was a great old school match,. with Moxley stepping into his NJPW role as the snarly American heel and Tana of course, playing the babyface. It looked like Mox got busted open hardway, and seeing Tana hit a High Fly Flow on a sitting guy made my entire night. The crowd was for sure exhausted, but the final sequence woke the building up, and that's why Mox is the champ baby.

8/10

Post match: The JAS hit the ring followed shortly by the babyface Blood and Guts crew and William Regal. This is why I love AEW, they're building to their next show right away.


Post show- Tony Khan brought out Negative 1 who cut a bit of a promo. Idk what was said because my group and I were trying to find our way out of the building. Also Moxley cut a promo, and apologized to the kid he knocked over in his entrance, checked to see if he was alright .

Final thoughts

As a live show, All Out 2019 is still the undisputed king. But, AEW shows are still frantic, fast paced, and full of action, which is what matters. I've also been developing my own community on Discord, full of IRL friends and people on Twitter who are looking for a place to belong in the IWC. which is why I've been away from WR, and how I'm primarily choosing to interact with wrestling from now on. Will always treasure the time I spent here, but debating things in forums ain't for this old codger no more.

And with that, NWK out! Maybe I'll see you down the road WR.
NWK Reviews is closed for business for now.

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Big Red Machine
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Re: NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 27th, '22, 23:02

NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40

The match had two aims, to give Miro a really good showing and free PAC and the rest of Death Triangle from the House of Black feud. It did this in spades with the elimination of Miro and what happened after.
Does is, though? What's to stop them from just attacking Death Triangle again? They're a group of evil-doers with magical powers. Why can't they feud with two groups at once?
They are a group with some sort of secret agenda. They picked a fight with Death Triangle specifically, so they must have had a reason for going after them instead of, say, Best Friends or the Inner Circle or whoever. Nothing we have seen indicates that their goal in going after Death Triangle has been accomplished. Groups like that don't transition out of a feud just because they also did something to someone else.


NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40 Post match: The JAS hit the ring followed shortly by the babyface Blood and Guts crew and William Regal. This is why I love AEW, they're building to their next show right away.
Yes, it technically "builds towards the next show," but there is an issue of opportunity cost here. Doing this took focus away from the fact that Moxley won the belt and that he finally beat Tanahashi. And they did it to build up a match that really didn't need any more build, and on a plat form where everyone watching has surely already seen most of the previous build. Someone who is buying a wrestling PPV isn't going to be convinced that they need to tune in to see the War Games match on TV this week, because either 1) it's a War Games match so they're already excited, 2) the storyline build has been effective, so they're already excited, or 3) the storyline build has not been effective, in which case just doing a random brawl isn't going to do anything for them because their lack of excitement comes from not being interested in the storyine.


NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40
which is why I've been away from WR, and how I'm primarily choosing to interact with wrestling from now on. Will always treasure the time I spent here, but debating things in forums ain't for this old codger no more.

And with that, NWK out! Maybe I'll see you down the road WR.
So what you're saying is that I actually have to go on Facebook to talk you now. That's a hard sell, but worth it.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

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NWK2000
Posts: 1490
Joined: Feb 26th, '14, 00:52

Re: NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by NWK2000 » Jun 28th, '22, 00:09

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 23:02
Does is, though? What's to stop them from just attacking Death Triangle again? They're a group of evil-doers with magical powers. Why can't they feud with two groups at once?
They are a group with some sort of secret agenda. They picked a fight with Death Triangle specifically, so they must have had a reason for going after them instead of, say, Best Friends or the Inner Circle or whoever. Nothing we have seen indicates that their goal in going after Death Triangle has been accomplished. Groups like that don't transition out of a feud just because they also did something to someone else. [/quote[

Admitedly, this is more hope and speculation on my end than anything else. I want HoB and DT to do other things.



Post match: The JAS hit the ring followed shortly by the babyface Blood and Guts crew and William Regal. This is why I love AEW, they're building to their next show right away.
Yes, it technically "builds towards the next show," but there is an issue of opportunity cost here. Doing this took focus away from the fact that Moxley won the belt and that he finally beat Tanahashi. And they did it to build up a match that really didn't need any more build, and on a plat form where everyone watching has surely already seen most of the previous build. Someone who is buying a wrestling PPV isn't going to be convinced that they need to tune in to see the War Games match on TV this week, because either 1) it's a War Games match so they're already excited, 2) the storyline build has been effective, so they're already excited, or 3) the storyline build has not been effective, in which case just doing a random brawl isn't going to do anything for them because their lack of excitement comes from not being interested in the storyine.
Wasn't Blood and Guts booked before we knew Punk was injured? Forbidden Door's build was cursed as hell. The fact that we got anything resembling a coherent show with all the injuries afoot is an amazing testament to TK and whoever's helping him book.

NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40
which is why I've been away from WR, and how I'm primarily choosing to interact with wrestling from now on. Will always treasure the time I spent here, but debating things in forums ain't for this old codger no more.

And with that, NWK out! Maybe I'll see you down the road WR.
So what you're saying is that I actually have to go on Facebook to talk you now. That's a hard sell, but worth it.
Or get a Twitter/Discord.
NWK Reviews is closed for business for now.

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1670
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by XIV » Jun 28th, '22, 01:18

NWK2000 wrote: Jun 28th, '22, 00:09
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 23:02
Does is, though? What's to stop them from just attacking Death Triangle again? They're a group of evil-doers with magical powers. Why can't they feud with two groups at once?
They are a group with some sort of secret agenda. They picked a fight with Death Triangle specifically, so they must have had a reason for going after them instead of, say, Best Friends or the Inner Circle or whoever. Nothing we have seen indicates that their goal in going after Death Triangle has been accomplished. Groups like that don't transition out of a feud just because they also did something to someone else. [/quote[

Admitedly, this is more hope and speculation on my end than anything else. I want HoB and DT to do other things.



Post match: The JAS hit the ring followed shortly by the babyface Blood and Guts crew and William Regal. This is why I love AEW, they're building to their next show right away.
Yes, it technically "builds towards the next show," but there is an issue of opportunity cost here. Doing this took focus away from the fact that Moxley won the belt and that he finally beat Tanahashi. And they did it to build up a match that really didn't need any more build, and on a plat form where everyone watching has surely already seen most of the previous build. Someone who is buying a wrestling PPV isn't going to be convinced that they need to tune in to see the War Games match on TV this week, because either 1) it's a War Games match so they're already excited, 2) the storyline build has been effective, so they're already excited, or 3) the storyline build has not been effective, in which case just doing a random brawl isn't going to do anything for them because their lack of excitement comes from not being interested in the storyine.
Wasn't Blood and Guts booked before we knew Punk was injured? Forbidden Door's build was cursed as hell. The fact that we got anything resembling a coherent show with all the injuries afoot is an amazing testament to TK and whoever's helping him book.

NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40
which is why I've been away from WR, and how I'm primarily choosing to interact with wrestling from now on. Will always treasure the time I spent here, but debating things in forums ain't for this old codger no more.

And with that, NWK out! Maybe I'll see you down the road WR.
So what you're saying is that I actually have to go on Facebook to talk you now. That's a hard sell, but worth it.
Or get a Twitter/Discord.
What’s your Twitter handle?
Have A Nice Day!

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 26816
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 28th, '22, 23:11

NWK2000 wrote: Jun 28th, '22, 00:09
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 23:02



Post match: The JAS hit the ring followed shortly by the babyface Blood and Guts crew and William Regal. This is why I love AEW, they're building to their next show right away.
Yes, it technically "builds towards the next show," but there is an issue of opportunity cost here. Doing this took focus away from the fact that Moxley won the belt and that he finally beat Tanahashi. And they did it to build up a match that really didn't need any more build, and on a plat form where everyone watching has surely already seen most of the previous build. Someone who is buying a wrestling PPV isn't going to be convinced that they need to tune in to see the War Games match on TV this week, because either 1) it's a War Games match so they're already excited, 2) the storyline build has been effective, so they're already excited, or 3) the storyline build has not been effective, in which case just doing a random brawl isn't going to do anything for them because their lack of excitement comes from not being interested in the storyine.
Wasn't Blood and Guts booked before we knew Punk was injured? Forbidden Door's build was cursed as hell. The fact that we got anything resembling a coherent show with all the injuries afoot is an amazing testament to TK and whoever's helping him book.
Blood & Guts was booked before Punk was injured, yes, but there is no reason that Moxley had to face Tanahashi on this show. He should have and having them wrestle was the right call, but remember, that wasn't their original plan (if I had to guess, the original plan was for Moxley to be in Umino's spot in the six-man tag, or for it to have been an eight-man tag with El Desperado or whoever in there on the heel side).
Quite frankly, the injuries made the card better. I'd much rather see Clark Connors in there with those three guys than Ishii, and Moxley vs. Tanahashi is a more meaningful match than anything else they were going to do with Moxley, and Tanahashi vs. Punk... is two guys who can turn it on when they need to, but are mostly past their primes (and, quite frankly, Tanahashi is not Liger. He is not know for turning it on to the fullest extent everywhere he goes, so while I'm sure Punk would have gone all out, I'm not so sure about Tanahashi). Yeah, not getting Dragon vs. Zack sucked, but Claudio is capable of having a match with Zack that fills that same technical wrestling niche while still being different enough from what Dragon and Zack will do (there is a size difference to incorporate with Claudio), and I'm sure we'll get Dragon vs. Zack eventually.

Also, there was no reason that Blood & Guts had to be booked for the show right after the PPV. That in and of itself was a stupid idea they were planning on using so many of these guys at the PPV. You're just risking people getting hurt. Dragon and Zack can work a ***** match without anyone needing to do anything risky, but having so many of the others working was pretty risky. They should have just done Dragon vs. Zack and Suzuki vs. Kingston (with the idea being that Suzuki is Jericho's paid assassin), and Mox vs. Tanahashi, and not had anyone else on the show. What hurt this show wasn't the injuries; it was the poor card construction and shoving so many people onto the card (many of whom are people the majority of the audience at best barely know and certainly don't give a sh*t about) and in random, meaningless matches.

The eight-man tag with Sting had no reason to be on this show (Sting gets Pillmanzired and is back in a month?! A MONTH?!), the build to the IWGP Title match was terrible and did almost nothing to let people who Okada is any why he is important, and if you cut out some of the pointless sh*t on the pre-show, maybe you could have given the women's title some actual time. Or actually booked the big TBS Title match you're been building to for a month in a story that hasn't actually moved forward since the last PPV.
NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 23:02
NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40
which is why I've been away from WR, and how I'm primarily choosing to interact with wrestling from now on. Will always treasure the time I spent here, but debating things in forums ain't for this old codger no more.

And with that, NWK out! Maybe I'll see you down the road WR.
So what you're saying is that I actually have to go on Facebook to talk you now. That's a hard sell, but worth it.
Or get a Twitter/Discord.
Discord: Maybe.

Twitter? NEVER.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
NWK2000
Posts: 1490
Joined: Feb 26th, '14, 00:52

Re: NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by NWK2000 » Jun 30th, '22, 08:25

XIV wrote: Jun 28th, '22, 01:18
NWK2000 wrote: Jun 28th, '22, 00:09
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 23:02
Does is, though? What's to stop them from just attacking Death Triangle again? They're a group of evil-doers with magical powers. Why can't they feud with two groups at once?
They are a group with some sort of secret agenda. They picked a fight with Death Triangle specifically, so they must have had a reason for going after them instead of, say, Best Friends or the Inner Circle or whoever. Nothing we have seen indicates that their goal in going after Death Triangle has been accomplished. Groups like that don't transition out of a feud just because they also did something to someone else. [/quote[

Admitedly, this is more hope and speculation on my end than anything else. I want HoB and DT to do other things.





Yes, it technically "builds towards the next show," but there is an issue of opportunity cost here. Doing this took focus away from the fact that Moxley won the belt and that he finally beat Tanahashi. And they did it to build up a match that really didn't need any more build, and on a plat form where everyone watching has surely already seen most of the previous build. Someone who is buying a wrestling PPV isn't going to be convinced that they need to tune in to see the War Games match on TV this week, because either 1) it's a War Games match so they're already excited, 2) the storyline build has been effective, so they're already excited, or 3) the storyline build has not been effective, in which case just doing a random brawl isn't going to do anything for them because their lack of excitement comes from not being interested in the storyine.
Wasn't Blood and Guts booked before we knew Punk was injured? Forbidden Door's build was cursed as hell. The fact that we got anything resembling a coherent show with all the injuries afoot is an amazing testament to TK and whoever's helping him book.

NWK2000 wrote: Jun 27th, '22, 20:40
which is why I've been away from WR, and how I'm primarily choosing to interact with wrestling from now on. Will always treasure the time I spent here, but debating things in forums ain't for this old codger no more.

And with that, NWK out! Maybe I'll see you down the road WR.
So what you're saying is that I actually have to go on Facebook to talk you now. That's a hard sell, but worth it.
Or get a Twitter/Discord.
What’s your Twitter handle?
@OdysseySSBO
NWK Reviews is closed for business for now.

User avatar
NWK2000
Posts: 1490
Joined: Feb 26th, '14, 00:52

Re: NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by NWK2000 » Jun 30th, '22, 08:32

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 28th, '22, 23:11 Discord: Maybe.

Twitter? NEVER.
I feel like you'd enjoy our Discord. We make a habit out of streaming whatever wrestling we feel like for fun. Set up your account and I'll invite you. This is available to the entire WR gang by request.
NWK Reviews is closed for business for now.

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1670
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: NWK reviews AEW x NJPW Forbidden Door

Post by XIV » Jun 30th, '22, 13:56

NWK2000 wrote: Jun 30th, '22, 08:32
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 28th, '22, 23:11 Discord: Maybe.

Twitter? NEVER.
I feel like you'd enjoy our Discord. We make a habit out of streaming whatever wrestling we feel like for fun. Set up your account and I'll invite you. This is available to the entire WR gang by request.

I have a discord, but I don’t really know how to use it.

I mainly use mine by invite to appear on Warhammer streams!
Have A Nice Day!

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