BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

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BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by Big Red Machine » Mar 15th, '19, 11:26

NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6 (3/14/2019)- Nara, Japan


MICHAEL ELGIN & YOTA TSUJI vs. BLUE JUSTICE (Yuji Nagata & Manabu Nakanishi)- 3.5/10

TOGI MAKABE, HIROYOSHI TENZAN, SATOSHI KOJIMA, & REN NARITA vs. BULLET CLUB (Bad Luck Fale, Chase Owens, Hikuleo, & Taiji Ishimori) (w/Jado)- 4/10
The match itself was completely bland, but the commentary…
On commentary, Rocky Romero accused Chase Owens of not being funny. When it comes to not being funny, I would definitely trust Rocky’s judgement, as he definitely comes off like an expert in that field. Speaking of commentators not being funny, Kevin Kelly MADE A JOKE ABOUT FANS TRYING MOVES AT HOME ON THEIR SIBLINGS. This was the worst of it, but suffice it to say that the commentary on this match was an utterly terrible mix of failed jokes and not showing the proper emotion when the heels were cheating. That Kevin Kelly somehow won the Observer’s award for Best Television Announcer exposes just how ridiculous Dave and his readership’s pro-NJPW bias is.

SHOTA UMINO & HIROOKI GOTO vs. LOS INGOBERNABLES DE JAPON (Shingo Takagi & Tetsuya Naito)- 6/10
Umino was an excellent babyface in peril.

LOS INGOBERNABLES DE JAPON (Sanada, EVIL, & BUSHI) vs. SUZUKI-GUN (Minoru Suzuki, Taichi, & Davey Boy Smith Jr.)- -3.5/10
Suzuki-Gun jumped the bell on their opponents. They predictably wound up on the outside, where Kevin Kelly launched into his atrocious “Hey! Come on now! Stop doing that” ineffective scolding voice (you know… the one that makes him sound like a teacher who has absolutely zero control over his students) to excoriate DBSJ for beating EVIL up in front of a child in the first row who Kevin claims is a big fan of EVIL’s. Well what the f*ck would you like him to do, Kevin? Do you want to him to stop throwing punches every time the brawl moves in front of a child to ask that child if they like his opponent and then take the extra time to drag him away if the answer is yes?
I don’t even understand what impulse would compel an announcer to say something that f*cking stupid. It’s a G-d damn Suzuki-Gun match. Give them five seconds and I’m sure they’ll cheat and give you a real reason to be upset. You don’t need to make up reasons why the fans should be angry that them.
Case in point: Two seconds later Kevin began to complain about a fishhook. And, of course, he did it in that exact same stupid tone. He even literally said “Hey! You can’t fishhook a man!”
And two seconds after that Suzuki picked up one of those big metal barricades and hit Sanada with it. Though instead of being outraged by this cheating, Kevin called it “heavy damage” in an excited voice, as if there was nothing wrong with it. There is no way that many people could have possibly voted for Kevin Kelly. Maybe Meltzer doesn’t realize that Nailz is doing commentary for some small indy and these people think he’s really good at it. Or maybe they’re confusing him with Don Callis. Or maybe they’re all from Japan and voted for Shinpei Nogami but their ballots were in Japanese and Kevin Kelly is what came out when Dave put it through Google Translate.
While this is all happening, the referee is walking around thinking about pie or whatever it is that these New Japan referees do during Suzuki-Gun brawls instead of actually doing their jobs.
Speaking of not doing their jobs, let’s go back to the announcers, who are making fun of BUSHI for some inside reason or another. Turns out it wasn’t just Steve Corino that was the problem. If you put anyone more interested in getting themselves over than getting the match over on commentary with Kevin, he just plays the f*ck along, happily dragging the match down.
We get back in the ring and Taichi is blatantly choking EVIL in the corner. The referee, apparently now remembering his numbers, counts “ONE! TWO! THREE! FOUR!” Taichi doesn’t stop his illegal chokehold in the corner after four so the referee… just tugs at his leg. Taichi still doesn’t break the hold, so the referee… begins to count “ONE! TWO! THREE! FOUR!” Yes, really.
Taichi eventually stops, only to go to a different illegal tactic (and he still hasn’t actually backed off of an opponent in the ropes the way you are supposed to). The referee counts to count again and Taichi stops. I’m not sure why he stopped this time when the referee has clearly shown that he won’t call for a DQ no matter what Suzuki-Gun do. And just in case you were thinking that Tacihi stopped because he didn’t want to push matters with the referee, after he stopped trying to gouge at EVIL’s eye, he hopped down from the turnbuckle, and shoved the referee down. Still no DQ.
Then he threatened to stomp on the referee. Still no DQ. Now Suzuki is grabbing the referee by the collar. Still no DQ. Now Suzuki is shoving the referee and stopping him from going over and yelling at Taichi and DBSJ for choking EVIL with their boots across his neck while he’s in the corner. STILL NO DQ.
Suzuki toys with EVIL which lets hit get some shots off, forearm exchange, blah blah blah. Every Suzuki-Gun undercard match ever.
We then get the stupid, overdone spot where the guy blocks the kick then whips the leg at the referee who catches it, trapping the opponent so the wrestler can hit his own kick. Rocky Romero made a joke about the referee joining LIJ, while Kevin Kelly casually replied that he just thinks all of the referees are anti-Suzuki-Gun.
1. Instead of trying to explain this spot to the viewer in a way that makes it not seem stupid, Rocky decided it was best to make a joke that the referee was biased in favor of the babyfaces.
2. Kevin Kelly, the lead babyface announcer, seemed to have absolutely no problem with the referees not being impartial.
3. Over just the past few minutes I have counted SEVEN separate offenses that the referee clearly saw for which Suzuki-Gun should have been disqualified but were not. Suzuki-Gun getting away with things that should have been DQs is something that usually occurs multiple times on each New Japan show, and count-out rules are bent to their benefit on a regular basis. To imply- especially after everything we have seen in this match alone- that the referees are biased against Suzuki-Gun is completely f*cking ridiculous.
4. While the announcers were making their stupid jokes, they ignored the fact that EVIL made a hot tag, which is one of the most pivotal moments in any tag team match.
F*ck this sh*t. You assholes are getting muted.
After that we got a few minutes of decent wrestling, but the match was already so far in the toilet it would have taken something special to climb out. Suzuki touched part of EVIL’s light-up scythe after the match, so Sanada brawled with him. Whatever. Isn’t the tournament enough of an angle? You don’t need to do an angle every time you’ve got Suzuki-Gun or Bullet Club facing off against a babyface. It works if you do it once in a while but doing it so often makes it feel obligatory to the point where it doesn’t mean anything.

KOTA IBUSHI & TOMOAKI HONMA vs. SUZUKI-GUN (Zack Sabre Jr. & TAKA Michinoku)- 4.5/10

COLT CABANA, TOMOHIRO ISHII, RYUSUKE TAGUCHI, & JUICE ROBINSON vs. HIROSHI TANAHASHI, TOA HENARE, & CHAOS (YOSHI-HASHI & Toru Yano)- 6.5/10
Tanahashi and Taguchi had some good sequences together. Juice got the win, pinning Henare.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- fine
Chase Owens attacks Juice to get some heat for the eventual IWGP US Title match that will surely result from Chase pinning Juice in the opening round of the tournament.

NEW JAPAN CUP SECOND ROUND MATCH: Will Ospreay vs. Lance Archer- 8/10
An awesome big man vs. little-man match. Archer worked over Ospreay’s back with his big slams while Ospreay had to use his agility get up high and target Archer’s head. They had some great false finishes (which were particularly shocking, as I was not expecting Archer to kick out of anything because of how much higher Ospreay is on the totem pole than him and how relatively early we are in the tournament), and an exciting finishing sequence that paid off a spot from earlier in the match in a clever way.

NEW JAPAN CUP SECOND ROUND MATCH: Kazuchika Okada vs. Mikey Nicholls- 7.25/10
Nicholls chopped Okada so hard he bled. And this was not after fifteen minutes of chopping. This was very early on, and without much previous chopping. Nicholls worked the back, Okada did his usual Okada stuff working the head, and- to the surprise of absolutely no one- Okada won. This was disappointing for an Okada main event.

This was a frustrating show from New Japan. It’s clear that the reason they’re spreading the second round matches up over four shows when they could easily do them in two and still give everything the appropriate amount of time is because they can sell two more show’s worth of tickets. While that is good for them financially, the vast majority of the matches on the card not having real consequences is a turn-off to me as a viewer, and makes me a lot less likely to watch this round (especially with all of the undercard matches following the same general New Japan undercard big tag match formula and thus pretty much all feeling the same). Ospreay vs. Archer is definitely worth your time to watch, but nothing else on this card was anything even close to being worth the time. Add in the f*cking atrocious commentary and you've got an experience that just makes you wonder why you wasted your time.
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by cero2k » Mar 15th, '19, 11:56

Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 11:26 That Kevin Kelly somehow won the Observer’s award for Best Television Announcer exposes just how ridiculous Dave and his readership’s pro-NJPW bias is.
did you listen to the show where he made sense on Kelly winning?
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by Big Red Machine » Mar 15th, '19, 12:44

cero2k wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 11:56
Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 11:26 That Kevin Kelly somehow won the Observer’s award for Best Television Announcer exposes just how ridiculous Dave and his readership’s pro-NJPW bias is.
did you listen to the show where he made sense on Kelly winning?
No. I haven't listened to any Observer shows since the weekend to avoid any possible wXw spoilers.
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by cero2k » Mar 15th, '19, 15:45

Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 12:44
cero2k wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 11:56
Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 11:26 That Kevin Kelly somehow won the Observer’s award for Best Television Announcer exposes just how ridiculous Dave and his readership’s pro-NJPW bias is.
did you listen to the show where he made sense on Kelly winning?
No. I haven't listened to any Observer shows since the weekend to avoid any possible wXw spoilers.
observer awards episode is mostly the awards, but they do spoil nxt at the end
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by Big Red Machine » Mar 16th, '19, 22:01

cero2k wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 15:45
Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 12:44
cero2k wrote: Mar 15th, '19, 11:56

did you listen to the show where he made sense on Kelly winning?
No. I haven't listened to any Observer shows since the weekend to avoid any possible wXw spoilers.
observer awards episode is mostly the awards, but they do spoil nxt at the end
What did Dave say about Kevin Kelly?
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by cero2k » Mar 17th, '19, 10:31

Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 16th, '19, 22:01 What did Dave say about Kevin Kelly?
he's saying he's good, but main reason he stood over the rest and got the award was doing the G1 Climax last year since he went the whole tour running stories for all men, shifting between Rocky Romero, Callis, and Charlton. That plus calling some great matches all year in NJPW, which he does accept is a handicap for some announcers, that it's much easier to be a good commentator when you can work with great matches/stories. Likewise, he has a good amount of exposure thanks to NJPW's schedule to take votes over guys like Don Callis, but he's not overproduced, so he's not damages like everyone in WWE. He almost sold it as KK had an award-worthy performance, like if he had a 5 star match. I personally hate KK, but this one I don't think it's a bias by Meltzer.

Realistically, this is the explanation for a LOT of the categories. Daniel Bryan wouldn't be the best in the mic if Konnan or Kross got more exposure or if there wasn't a language barrier with Japan/Mexico/Germany. Gresham is a better technical wrestler than Bryan. You brought up Murphy for non-heavyweight, but not a lot of people watch 205Live. As much he likes to suck Ronda's dick, if people like Hayashishita, Hijo del Vikingo, or Uemura, she wouldn't win Rookie of the Year.
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by Big Red Machine » Mar 17th, '19, 12:01

cero2k wrote: Mar 17th, '19, 10:31
Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 16th, '19, 22:01 What did Dave say about Kevin Kelly?
he's saying he's good, but main reason he stood over the rest and got the award was doing the G1 Climax last year since he went the whole tour running stories for all men, shifting between Rocky Romero, Callis, and Charlton. That plus calling some great matches all year in NJPW, which he does accept is a handicap for some announcers, that it's much easier to be a good commentator when you can work with great matches/stories. Likewise, he has a good amount of exposure thanks to NJPW's schedule to take votes over guys like Don Callis, but he's not overproduced, so he's not damages like everyone in WWE. He almost sold it as KK had an award-worthy performance, like if he had a 5 star match. I personally hate KK, but this one I don't think it's a bias by Meltzer.

Realistically, this is the explanation for a LOT of the categories. Daniel Bryan wouldn't be the best in the mic if Konnan or Kross got more exposure or if there wasn't a language barrier with Japan/Mexico/Germany. Gresham is a better technical wrestler than Bryan. You brought up Murphy for non-heavyweight, but not a lot of people watch 205Live. As much he likes to suck Ronda's dick, if people like Hayashishita, Hijo del Vikingo, or Uemura, she wouldn't win Rookie of the Year.
I just don't understand what someone is even looking for when they vote for Kevin Kelly. He says stupid sh*t constantly, he calls the show like an announcer from 1970s territory, he's not witty in any way, he's hypocritical, and New Japan's stories are so simple that anyone with half a brain could call them competently... and I don't even remember there being to many coherent stories running through the G1, so if there were that many then Kevin did a sh*tty job of getting them across to me.
When Matt Striker does a sh*tty job of calling Lucha Underground matches or Michael Cole does a sh*tty job in WWE people complain that he brings the matches down, but when Kevin Kelly (and Rocky Romero, while we're at it) does a sh*tty job of calling NJPW matches, the matches bring him up?
I just don't get these people's mindsets. Aren't Observer readers supposed to be smarky fans? How is there possibly enough support to get Kevin Kelly best announcer when he's not even the best announcer in New Japan but not enough support to get Uemura Rookie of the Year? It just doesn't compute to me. And shouldn't the Observer-reading type be the ones who are going to actually watch a show like 205 Live? How is someone an English-speaking Observer reader and not watching 205 Live and NXT (I can almost understand not watching NXT UK due to how much WWE content there is, but that show doesn't get the praise that the other two get, either, because it's just not as good).
And if the answer is because no one has let them know how good the show is, then that's on Dave and Bryan not doing their jobs. Why is it that Wade Keller can get people to talk about ROH, MLW, Impact, 205 Live, NXT UK, LU etc. on his website but Meltzer & Alvarez can't?
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by cero2k » Mar 17th, '19, 20:59

Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 17th, '19, 12:01
I just don't understand what someone is even looking for when they vote for Kevin Kelly. He says stupid sh*t constantly, he calls the show like an announcer from 1970s territory, he's not witty in any way, he's hypocritical, and New Japan's stories are so simple that anyone with half a brain could call them competently... and I don't even remember there being to many coherent stories running through the G1, so if there were that many then Kevin did a sh*tty job of getting them across to me.
When Matt Striker does a sh*tty job of calling Lucha Underground matches or Michael Cole does a sh*tty job in WWE people complain that he brings the matches down, but when Kevin Kelly (and Rocky Romero, while we're at it) does a sh*tty job of calling NJPW matches, the matches bring him up?

I just don't get these people's mindsets. Aren't Observer readers supposed to be smarky fans? How is there possibly enough support to get Kevin Kelly best announcer when he's not even the best announcer in New Japan but not enough support to get Uemura Rookie of the Year? It just doesn't compute to me.
1970s territory, maybe you nailed it, people go crazy for nostalgia. I mean, you bring up Cole and Striker, and I want to believe that you and I can agree the KK is somewhat better than both. Striker's reference are completely stupid and Cole is overproduced and fake, at least KK only sounds like he's trying to be cute with his calls. These are all personal preferences, whatever you saw in whoever you voted for, I'm sure someone could say the same argument for KK. I think all our debates are a good example on how yours and my preferences of wrestling are not necessarily shared by the larger wrestling community, not even in our small microcosm called TWR

I honestly don't remember much of the G1 Climax calling and I do remember some shows I watched in Japanese, but if it was close to what he's doing right now with the New Japan Cup, I do like what he's doing not only bringing up the different stories with the stables, but also making arguments for everyone going against White, who White wouldn't want, records, surprises, stuff like that. All that + calling the match, I can appreciate. It's just his shitty "Oh it's Honma" "Block C" shtick that annoys me.

You overestimate the 'observer' fan, let alone those who actually voted, smarky is just that they're insiders, but not that they watch everything that there is to watch. Dave and Bryan are constantly complaining about the people in their board, they're no different from a Wredditor or a PWinsider member, they still have their preferences and biases and all.
See it this way, WOR mainly covers WWE, UFC, and NJPW. I doubt that there are UFC-only fans, so let's say that 80% of voters are either fans of WWE, NJPW, or both, so the resting 20% are the rest, INCLUDING old timers that only watch old wrestling, so that means that no one from Mexico, Japan, or the indies are going to get enough votes. did someone vote for Lenny Leonard, I'm sure someone did, just not enough to make a difference.

I think the biggest thing that I see is the bias between WWE fans and non-WWE fans, and how the latter shot themselves in the foot on some categories. Best example was the 'match of the year' award, and Dave brought it up. Omega vs Okada won because that was plain and simple, the best match of the year for NJPW, but when it comes to picking 2 and 3, non-WWE fans had about 10 NJPW matches to pick from + Dragon Gate + AJPW + ROH/PWG/etc. WWE fans had to decide between 3 or 4 Gargano matches only.


Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 17th, '19, 12:01 And shouldn't the Observer-reading type be the ones who are going to actually watch a show like 205 Live? How is someone an English-speaking Observer reader and not watching 205 Live and NXT (I can almost understand not watching NXT UK due to how much WWE content there is, but that show doesn't get the praise that the other two get, either, because it's just not as good).
And if the answer is because no one has let them know how good the show is, then that's on Dave and Bryan not doing their jobs. Why is it that Wade Keller can get people to talk about ROH, MLW, Impact, 205 Live, NXT UK, LU etc. on his website but Meltzer & Alvarez can't?
I'm both an observer reader and english speaking and I don't watch neither show, I don't support any WWE product. And if you're already watching 3 hrs of RAW, 2 of Smackdown, + PPVs, I honestly don't fault anyone that doesn't want to watch the other two shows. Half of the observer shows talk about old wrestling, so I'm sure a lot of people watch current RAW and old RAW + Nitro.
I personally don't excuse them for not giving more coverage to ROH/Impact/MLW, or any other televised show. I understand not having time to cover indies unless a match makes noise, but televised wrestling should be covered one way or another. I don't think that it's Dave and Bryan not doing their jobs, because it really could be anyone doing it as long as they give them the platform to do the shows. Except they cover RAW, Nitro, Superstars, NWA, and whatever Garrett Gonzales wants to bring up about Dave doing the Donahue show and boxing. I am 100% sure that Impact would have a lot more viewers if Dave and Bryan would talk about it. All in all, WWE fans can't complain that Dave and Bryan don't cover the product because between ALL their shows, ALL of WWE gets covered, even 205Live.
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by Big Red Machine » Mar 17th, '19, 22:40

The more I think about it, the thing that drives me nuts about Kevin Kelly winning is that I have never, ever heard anyone say anything that even comes close to resembling "I think Kevin Kelly is one of the best announcers in wrestling right now." People say that about Nigel, Nogami, Callis, Mauro, whoever that third guy in the NJPW English booth who does he translations is, Alan Counihan, etc. Even Striker has these weird corners of the internet where people think the stuff he talks about actually makes him sound smart. But Kevin Kelly is just so bland and non-descript that I just don't get it. I can understand how someone might think that Striker or Corino or others who I think are terrible are good. But Kevin Kelly is the beige of wrestling commentators.
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by Big Red Machine » Mar 17th, '19, 22:51

cero2k wrote: Mar 17th, '19, 20:59
Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 17th, '19, 12:01 And shouldn't the Observer-reading type be the ones who are going to actually watch a show like 205 Live? How is someone an English-speaking Observer reader and not watching 205 Live and NXT (I can almost understand not watching NXT UK due to how much WWE content there is, but that show doesn't get the praise that the other two get, either, because it's just not as good).
And if the answer is because no one has let them know how good the show is, then that's on Dave and Bryan not doing their jobs. Why is it that Wade Keller can get people to talk about ROH, MLW, Impact, 205 Live, NXT UK, LU etc. on his website but Meltzer & Alvarez can't?
I'm both an observer reader and english speaking and I don't watch neither show, I don't support any WWE product. And if you're already watching 3 hrs of RAW, 2 of Smackdown, + PPVs, I honestly don't fault anyone that doesn't want to watch the other two shows. Half of the observer shows talk about old wrestling, so I'm sure a lot of people watch current RAW and old RAW + Nitro.
I personally don't excuse them for not giving more coverage to ROH/Impact/MLW, or any other televised show. I understand not having time to cover indies unless a match makes noise, but televised wrestling should be covered one way or another. I don't think that it's Dave and Bryan not doing their jobs, because it really could be anyone doing it as long as they give them the platform to do the shows. Except they cover RAW, Nitro, Superstars, NWA, and whatever Garrett Gonzales wants to bring up about Dave doing the Donahue show and boxing. I am 100% sure that Impact would have a lot more viewers if Dave and Bryan would talk about it. All in all, WWE fans can't complain that Dave and Bryan don't cover the product because between ALL their shows, ALL of WWE gets covered, even 205Live.
The thing with 205 Live that drives me nuts is that 205 Live is EXACTLY the type of wrestling show that people who hate WWE's way of doing things have been demanding for years! If you say you want something and someone gives it to you should f*cking watch it. If it's a scheduling issue then cut out something else to give it a shot (especially because most of these people spend at least one hour a week finding out what happened on Raw and SD and looking for Dave and Wade's takes on it).
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by cero2k » Mar 18th, '19, 08:40

Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 17th, '19, 22:51
The thing with 205 Live that drives me nuts is that 205 Live is EXACTLY the type of wrestling show that people who hate WWE's way of doing things have been demanding for years! If you say you want something and someone gives it to you should f*cking watch it. If it's a scheduling issue then cut out something else to give it a shot (especially because most of these people spend at least one hour a week finding out what happened on Raw and SD and looking for Dave and Wade's takes on it).
205Live is still WWE at the end of the day, and if NXT doesn't have the numbers of the main roster, why would 205?
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Re: BRM Reviews NJPW New Japan Cup 2019: Day 6

Post by Big Red Machine » Mar 18th, '19, 11:20

cero2k wrote: Mar 18th, '19, 08:40
Big Red Machine wrote: Mar 17th, '19, 22:51
The thing with 205 Live that drives me nuts is that 205 Live is EXACTLY the type of wrestling show that people who hate WWE's way of doing things have been demanding for years! If you say you want something and someone gives it to you should f*cking watch it. If it's a scheduling issue then cut out something else to give it a shot (especially because most of these people spend at least one hour a week finding out what happened on Raw and SD and looking for Dave and Wade's takes on it).
205Live is still WWE at the end of the day, and if NXT doesn't have the numbers of the main roster, why would 205?
It's not about "good" numbers. It's about "smarks"/"Observer readers"/all of those people who complain about the way things are handled on the main roster watching it. These same people who all seem to love NXT should be tuning in to 205 Live, plus all of the people who don't like watching something with the stigma of "developmental" and/or don't like watching things with sloppy new trainees or whatever other reasons they have for not watching NXT. Do they not understand that he only way to encourage Vince to get his sh*t together is to support the alternative his own company provides that gives you the wrestling you want? Anything in some other company Vince can spin to himself as people who have an irrational hatred of WWE and thus only want to watch TNA/ROH/NJPW/whoever.
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