“Bullet Club Is Fine” - The Bullet Club Civil War Megathread

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cero2k
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Re: “Bullet Club Is Fine” - The Bullet Club Civil War Megathread

Post by cero2k » May 3rd, '18, 18:34

Big Red Machine wrote: May 3rd, '18, 18:05
NXT Roddy vs. ROH Roddy is people just not remembering that Roddy's promos steadily improved in the 2010s (getting the chance to cut promos in PWG, plus hanging out with Truth Martini in ROH are pretty clear markers in his development if you go back and look) so by the time he gets to NXT is a fine promo, but people's lasting memories of him in ROH are those wooden Gen. Next promos.

And saying that Steen vs. Generico was better in PWG than in ROH? Dude... are you trolling me? ROH MADE that feud. PWG was just mooching off of ROH, and had no story at all. ROH's was a year-long epic in 2010 that was so epic that they were able to go back to it in 2012 without losing a single once of the heat.
that was almost 10 yrs ago, I knew some people that hated Roddy months before leaving ROH and signing, and as soon as he debuted, "on my god, it's roddy! he's so awesome!"

I'm not talking about stories, i'm talking about the two ladder matches that happened in each promotion

Big Red Machine wrote:With the Cody thing, if he's stalling to get heat and he's getting cheered for it, then what is there
I'm not saying it's Cody's fault. This has been building for years on the indies (and for this one I do put the blame on PWG fans because they started it). It used to be that heels would get cheered for some things, but you could still do things like stall or tease a dive and then not do it to get booed, so the Bucks used to do their cartwheels and then do a back rake instead of the elbow or dropkick or whatever they used to do, and the PWG fans started cheering it, and then everyone else started doing it and people then just started cheering heel spots so now you can't do anything to get heat other than deny the crowd the visual of a hot chick, or be someone like Whitmer or Zack Gibson who the fans seem to have semi-randomly decided to despise to extreme degrees.
heels have been getting cheered forever, Four Horsemen and nWo were loved back in the day, nWo booes were not for the heel antics. But hey, wrestling evolves, if fans are cheering heels, you find new ways to get booed. If heels are getting cheered, booker must react. if heels are getting cheered, then the babyfaces need to up their game. Cody, IMO has done all that, he gets booed. Fans are reactionary, they're not part of the play.
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Big Red Machine
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Re: “Bullet Club Is Fine” - The Bullet Club Civil War Megathread

Post by Big Red Machine » May 3rd, '18, 18:45

cero2k wrote: May 3rd, '18, 18:34
Big Red Machine wrote: May 3rd, '18, 18:05
NXT Roddy vs. ROH Roddy is people just not remembering that Roddy's promos steadily improved in the 2010s (getting the chance to cut promos in PWG, plus hanging out with Truth Martini in ROH are pretty clear markers in his development if you go back and look) so by the time he gets to NXT is a fine promo, but people's lasting memories of him in ROH are those wooden Gen. Next promos.

And saying that Steen vs. Generico was better in PWG than in ROH? Dude... are you trolling me? ROH MADE that feud. PWG was just mooching off of ROH, and had no story at all. ROH's was a year-long epic in 2010 that was so epic that they were able to go back to it in 2012 without losing a single once of the heat.
that was almost 10 yrs ago, I knew some people that hated Roddy months before leaving ROH and signing, and as soon as he debuted, "on my god, it's roddy! he's so awesome!"

I'm not talking about stories, i'm talking about the two ladder matches that happened in each promotion
I can kind of get hating ROH Roddy at the end. He wasn't doing anything and kind of felt like he regressed on the mic. He certainly wasn't showing what he could do like he did in PWG (though I blame the booking for that more than anything). As for the ROH one... I'm probably a bit biased in terms of ability to compare them because I was at the ROH one live, but they were very different matches. The PWG one was more of a standard Ladder Match while the ROH one was a combination of trying new things and them trying to do call back spots because it was also intended to serve as Generico's ROH farewell.
cero2k wrote: May 3rd, '18, 18:34
Big Red Machine wrote:With the Cody thing, if he's stalling to get heat and he's getting cheered for it, then what is there
I'm not saying it's Cody's fault. This has been building for years on the indies (and for this one I do put the blame on PWG fans because they started it). It used to be that heels would get cheered for some things, but you could still do things like stall or tease a dive and then not do it to get booed, so the Bucks used to do their cartwheels and then do a back rake instead of the elbow or dropkick or whatever they used to do, and the PWG fans started cheering it, and then everyone else started doing it and people then just started cheering heel spots so now you can't do anything to get heat other than deny the crowd the visual of a hot chick, or be someone like Whitmer or Zack Gibson who the fans seem to have semi-randomly decided to despise to extreme degrees.
heels have been getting cheered forever, Four Horsemen and nWo were loved back in the day, nWo booes were not for the heel antics. But hey, wrestling evolves, if fans are cheering heels, you find new ways to get booed. If heels are getting cheered, booker must react. if heels are getting cheered, then the babyfaces need to up their game. Cody, IMO has done all that, he gets booed. Fans are reactionary, they're not part of the play.
Yes, you evolve... but I think there is a point where there is nothing left for you to do. What could they do differently right now to get booed instead of cheered?
Cody gets booed when some facet of the Omega storyline is involved. Most of the rest of the time he gets cheered.
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