BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

NJPW, RevPro, CMLL, DDT, etc
Post Reply
User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 1st, '17, 17:22

NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9 (7/29/2017)- Nagoya, Japan

MICHAEL ELGIN & DAVID FINLAY JR. vs. LOS INGOBERNABLES DE JAPON (Sanada & BUSHI)- 4.75/10
Very good for the time it got.

KATSUYA KITAMIYA & HIRAI KAWATO vs. vs. LOS INGOBERNABLES DE JAPON (Hiromu Takahashi & EVIL)- 4.75/10
Another match that was much better than you would expect it would be for the time it was given. Hiromu won with the Liontamer, so it looks like he’s developing a submission finisher as well.

BULLET CLUB (Tama Tonga & Yujiro Takahashi) vs. SUZUKI-GUN (Minoru Suzuki & Taichi)- 4/10
Bullet Club wins when Yujiro pins Taichi. Tama Tonga and Suzuki brawl after the match.

HIROYOSHI TENZAN & SATOSHI KOJIMA vs. BULLET CLUB (Kenny Omega & Chase Owens)- 5.75/10
The match was fine. As part of the finish, Kojima hit Okada with what I assume was supposed to be a Cozy Cozy Cutter but Omega came down like it was a DDT. It looked a little scary but Kenny seemed to be fine.

CHAOS (Kazuchika Okada, Toru Yano, & Gedo) vs. JUICE ROBINSON, RYUSUKE TAGUCHI, & TOMOYUKI OKA- 6/10
Juice was still selling his knee because he’s a f*cking professional. This was a nice fun match, with thankfully little in the way of Stupid Yano Tricks. He did, however, hit a low blow to help himself get the win. On Oka. A young-boy. If this f*cker can’t beat a young-boy clean, why is he in the G1?

BLOCK A MATCH: Togi Makabe vs. Yuji Nagata- 6.5/10
Another slugfest. Such matches don’t seem to play to Nataga’s strengths. He’s YUJ NAGATA! He’s supposed to suplexing guys and making them tap.

BLOCK A MATCH: Kota Ibushi vs. Bad Luck Fale- 0.75/10
Before the match Fale destroyed another Darryl doll. This one belonged to a fan. Then he attacked the ring announcer. Why has this man not been punished yet?
We started out just like last night’s six-man tag with Kota doing some hit-and-run stuff, using his speed to avoid Fale’s strikes. This time, though, Fale managed to put a stop to it with one good strike to the knee. Fale worked the knee over a lot and Kota sold it well… until it was time for his big comeback and he just stopped selling it at all. They also decided that it was necessary to brawl all the way to the back of the ground-level seats so that Kota could climb up and do a dive off of a balcony. If you want to do this then that’s fine, but at least bump the ref first so that there is a reason you’re not getting counted out other than “because we wanted to do our spot.” Fale eventually took over and got the win by hitting a big lariat where it looked like he knocked Kota out, then an atrocious Grenade where I don’t he made any contact with Kota whatsoever, then a Bad Luck Fall that I’m sure gave Kota a concussion.

BLOCK A MATCH: Hirooki Goto vs. Zack Sabre Jr. (w/El Desperado)- 7/10
We get a quick shine on Goto before a distraction by El Desperado allows Zack to take control. Zack worked the arm while Goto worked the head. They had some really great reversals in here, but alas Zack was not able to reverse the final GTR, so Goto adds his name to the big list of guys sitting on top of the block with six points (for the record, as of this moment, that is Zack, Goto, Fale, Makabe, Tanahashi, and Naito.

BLOCK A MATCH: Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. YOSHI-HASHI- 7/10
These two had a pretty great match but it felt like a match that could have been a lot more if they had told a more focused story. Both guys jumped around a lot with which body part they were working. This normally wouldn’t bother me (and I didn’t lower the score because of this here, either), but if Tanahashi has the injured arm, why would YOSHI-HASHI start targeting something else? And for Tanahashi, if you’re going over and you start off by working the other guy’s knee, why not just stick with the knee and win with the cloverleaf instead of the High Fly Flow. Despite going into this tournament with a major arm injury, Tanahashi now leads his block, and is 4-1 so far because TanahashiWinsLOL.

BLOCK A MATCH: Tomohiro Ishii vs. Tetsuya Naito- 8/10
Naito spent most of the match just beating the sh*t out of Ishii and targeting his head in just about every way imaginable and Ishii was selling it all so well and wasn’t doing any of his usual bullsh*t... and then they went and ruined it all by having Naito hit Ishii with his big super-finisher Destino… and not only does Ishii pop right back up, not selling it at all, but Naito is down and selling so that Ishii can hit him with a sliding lariat. HOW F*CKING STUPID CAN YOU GET?! Imagine if Okada hit someone with the Rainmaker and they took this huge bump for it, but then popped right back up while Okada collapsed in pain. It’d be f*cking idiotic. IF SOMEONE HITS YOU WITH A MOVE, YOU SELL IT! It’s not a difficult concept to grasp!
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?

This was a decent G1 show. The undercard was a lot better than most have been, but the top of the card was… well… I think that if this wasn’t a G1 show, this show would have felt like it was a lot better. There were a few great matches, but while they were great, they weren’t the quality we’ve come to expect from the G1.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by cero2k » Aug 1st, '17, 17:44

Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 1st, '17, 17:22
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?
what makes sense to you doesn't necessarily appeal everyone else, different strokes for different folks. I mean, you only took .75 off of the match, so it wasn't a something that completely killed the match. If people wanna blindly follow Meltzer, it's their deal, even Meltzer keeps saying to not take his ratings so seriously.


also, you can't say Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense? and mention CHIKARA in the same vein. Even in the scope of a normal match, tons of their stuff doesn't make sense
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 1st, '17, 18:07

cero2k wrote: Aug 1st, '17, 17:44
Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 1st, '17, 17:22
And now f*cking Meltzer is going to put this over for being so fighting spirit strong style OMFG I LOVE NEW JAPAN SO MUCH and he’s going to give this match *****************3/4 and then a bunch of Meltzer-mark indy dorks are going to start doing it and now every f*cking indy show I watch that isn’t EVOLVE or CHIKARA is going to have two or three different matches where guys are hitting their own finishers as ass-backwards transition spots. Without that one stupid spot, I would have given this, like, an 8.75/10. Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense?
what makes sense to you doesn't necessarily appeal everyone else, different strokes for different folks. I mean, you only took .75 off of the match, so it wasn't a something that completely killed the match. If people wanna blindly follow Meltzer, it's their deal, even Meltzer keeps saying to not take his ratings so seriously.
I'm not worried about fans liking what Dave likes. I'm worried about wrestlers seeing that Dave liked this sort of crap and constantly doing it because they want Dave to give them more snowflakes. This is exactly what happened after that Ishii vs. Shibata travesty in the 2013 G1, and the business has been the worse for it.
cero2k wrote: Aug 1st, '17, 17:44 also, you can't say Why is it so difficult for people nowadays to just have good professional wrestling matches where everything makes sense? and mention CHIKARA in the same vein. Even in the scope of a normal match, tons of their stuff doesn't make sense
My mention of CHIKARA had more to do with the fact that they have a booker who will put his foot down and not allow such things (or only allow them in moderation, when it is necessary for a story).
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by cero2k » Aug 2nd, '17, 09:51

Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 1st, '17, 18:07 This is exactly what happened after that Ishii vs. Shibata travesty in the 2013 G1, and the business has been the worse for it.
Except the indies are the biggest they've ever been
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 2nd, '17, 10:32

cero2k wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 09:51
Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 1st, '17, 18:07 This is exactly what happened after that Ishii vs. Shibata travesty in the 2013 G1, and the business has been the worse for it.
Except the indies are the biggest they've ever been
Yes, but that has more to do with streaming services and social media and other things that make it easier to spread the word and access content, plus WWE both pushing indy guys and being less reluctant to hide the fact that the indies exist. I don't think people copying Shibata matches to impress Dave has anything to do with that upswing. I think it's more the PWG spotfest style combined with ease of access, and more competitive access to talent.
While there are currently more indies doing better than they have before, the old guard of "top" indies- your ROH, CZW, CHIKARA, SHIMMER, etc. are doing worse. I'd even argue that PWG is doing worse than they were in 2012-2014 because I think their buzz is down due to running fewer shows, but that's arguable. Either way, though, with CZW, PWG, and CHIKARA are all drawing worse than they did at their peaks, running fewer dates and (at least in CHIKARA's case) spending less on talent, plus the combination of ROH's creative decline and the failed gambit at exclusive contracts, plus aided by WWE warning people away from them, talent are reluctant to go to ROH, even for what is presumably better pay and more dates, so you've got guys like ACH, Riddle, Sami Callihan, Elgin, Hero (when he was around) etc. going to whatever indy they want, all over the place so more places have access to top stars. Now factor in that availability of content (and I'm including LU in this) allows more guys to be discovered by your typical Amero-Canadian indy audience (and ROH TV has played a similar role in helping more casual fans discover certain indy guys), so you have more stars to work with. Steen, Generico, & pals had to drive a million hours from Montreal to Philly in the hopes of getting booked. All Ospreay, Scurll, Dunne, etc. had to do was have some British fan send Excalibur an e-mail, then not sh*t the bed when they got brought in to PWG.

I also think that the WWE Network and TNA PPV cutbacks freed up some room in a lot of people's wallets for indy wrestling. For that same combined $100 each month you can do get WWE Network New Japan World, RevPro, PROGRESS, CHIKARA-Topia, and all of the promotions on the Highspots Network and FloSlam, and still have some left over to buy whatever ROH VOD catches your eye.

And as a last word of caution, remember how big ACW got about five years ago? Now they're just that brand on FloSlam that even people who remember that FIP exists usually forget about. Remember the women's wrestling craze around that same time (and especially how big WSU got)? It's pretty much gone now. I don't quite think that will happen with this current indy boom simply because of the cheapness and ease of access of the products, but I don't think it's out of the real of possibility, either.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by cero2k » Aug 2nd, '17, 13:45

Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 10:32
Yes, but that has more to do with streaming services and social media and other things that make it easier to spread the word and access content, plus WWE both pushing indy guys and being less reluctant to hide the fact that the indies exist. I don't think people copying Shibata matches to impress Dave has anything to do with that upswing. I think it's more the PWG spotfest style combined with ease of access, and more competitive access to talent.
While there are currently more indies doing better than they have before, the old guard of "top" indies- your ROH, CZW, CHIKARA, SHIMMER, etc. are doing worse. I'd even argue that PWG is doing worse than they were in 2012-2014 because I think their buzz is down due to running fewer shows, but that's arguable. Either way, though, with CZW, PWG, and CHIKARA are all drawing worse than they did at their peaks, running fewer dates and (at least in CHIKARA's case) spending less on talent, plus the combination of ROH's creative decline and the failed gambit at exclusive contracts, plus aided by WWE warning people away from them, talent are reluctant to go to ROH, even for what is presumably better pay and more dates, so you've got guys like ACH, Riddle, Sami Callihan, Elgin, Hero (when he was around) etc. going to whatever indy they want, all over the place so more places have access to top stars. Now factor in that availability of content (and I'm including LU in this) allows more guys to be discovered by your typical Amero-Canadian indy audience (and ROH TV has played a similar role in helping more casual fans discover certain indy guys), so you have more stars to work with. Steen, Generico, & pals had to drive a million hours from Montreal to Philly in the hopes of getting booked. All Ospreay, Scurll, Dunne, etc. had to do was have some British fan send Excalibur an e-mail, then not sh*t the bed when they got brought in to PWG.

I also think that the WWE Network and TNA PPV cutbacks freed up some room in a lot of people's wallets for indy wrestling. For that same combined $100 each month you can do get WWE Network New Japan World, RevPro, PROGRESS, CHIKARA-Topia, and all of the promotions on the Highspots Network and FloSlam, and still have some left over to buy whatever ROH VOD catches your eye.

And as a last word of caution, remember how big ACW got about five years ago? Now they're just that brand on FloSlam that even people who remember that FIP exists usually forget about. Remember the women's wrestling craze around that same time (and especially how big WSU got)? It's pretty much gone now. I don't quite think that will happen with this current indy boom simply because of the cheapness and ease of access of the products, but I don't think it's out of the real of possibility, either.
Streaming helps, but the real reason is the talent pool and the matches that talent pool can put on. Streaming doesn't matter if you don't have a product that people wanna see, and what makes a product worth checking out starts from the talent booked. RWA in Pittsburgh is onDemand, no one outside of Pittsburgh watches it except maybe me because I got them for free. Social media has helped more than streaming because now you can see what other promotions all over the world are doing, that's how the PWG buzz started to begin with, but again, all those clips are the of the talent pool, and all those guys got over because of those superkick parties, those Ricochet/Ospreay things that Cornette hates, and those Ballplexes, and those Ishii v Shibata spots that people love. Conclusion, those things haven't made wrestling worse.

You're trying to qualify the indie momentum by a bunch of old promotions, and that surely shouldn't represent the current indies. From the ones you list, ROH hasn't been an indie in a long time, CHIKARA fucked up for overspending and booking, CZW can't overcome the ultraviolence shadow, and SHIMMER books 4 shows every other 4 months in irrelevant locations. From all those, they all have streaming services, so that's definitely not helping. PWG's buzz may have come down a little bit, but they're still strong, their BOLA tickets were 85 dlls for standing room and they sold out in 5 minutes, they're booking tons of people from all over the world, they're doing alright. If any of those are worse than they were 5-10 yrs ago, it's surely due to their management and not fans not liking them anymore, and fans come for the wrestling at the end of the day.

The reality is that things come and go, especially in wrestling, what was working 5-10 yrs ago is not necessarily gonna be cool anymore, companies come and go, but the one thing that we can't disagree is that we see more promotions running shows during the big WWE weekends, we see tons of indies in the UK and Mexico doing better, we see Ricochet and Tom Lawlor and Jeff Cobb and Pentagon booked all over the country, these guys are making a living from doing indies, that IMO is the real thing to show that indie wrestling is bigger right now, if all these guys can earn a living.

The WWE/TNA PPV thing may help the fans, but I don't expect a lot of people suddenly think they can now spend more money in other promotions because WWE is cheap.
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 2nd, '17, 14:01

cero2k wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 13:45
Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 10:32
Yes, but that has more to do with streaming services and social media and other things that make it easier to spread the word and access content, plus WWE both pushing indy guys and being less reluctant to hide the fact that the indies exist. I don't think people copying Shibata matches to impress Dave has anything to do with that upswing. I think it's more the PWG spotfest style combined with ease of access, and more competitive access to talent.
While there are currently more indies doing better than they have before, the old guard of "top" indies- your ROH, CZW, CHIKARA, SHIMMER, etc. are doing worse. I'd even argue that PWG is doing worse than they were in 2012-2014 because I think their buzz is down due to running fewer shows, but that's arguable. Either way, though, with CZW, PWG, and CHIKARA are all drawing worse than they did at their peaks, running fewer dates and (at least in CHIKARA's case) spending less on talent, plus the combination of ROH's creative decline and the failed gambit at exclusive contracts, plus aided by WWE warning people away from them, talent are reluctant to go to ROH, even for what is presumably better pay and more dates, so you've got guys like ACH, Riddle, Sami Callihan, Elgin, Hero (when he was around) etc. going to whatever indy they want, all over the place so more places have access to top stars. Now factor in that availability of content (and I'm including LU in this) allows more guys to be discovered by your typical Amero-Canadian indy audience (and ROH TV has played a similar role in helping more casual fans discover certain indy guys), so you have more stars to work with. Steen, Generico, & pals had to drive a million hours from Montreal to Philly in the hopes of getting booked. All Ospreay, Scurll, Dunne, etc. had to do was have some British fan send Excalibur an e-mail, then not sh*t the bed when they got brought in to PWG.

I also think that the WWE Network and TNA PPV cutbacks freed up some room in a lot of people's wallets for indy wrestling. For that same combined $100 each month you can do get WWE Network New Japan World, RevPro, PROGRESS, CHIKARA-Topia, and all of the promotions on the Highspots Network and FloSlam, and still have some left over to buy whatever ROH VOD catches your eye.

And as a last word of caution, remember how big ACW got about five years ago? Now they're just that brand on FloSlam that even people who remember that FIP exists usually forget about. Remember the women's wrestling craze around that same time (and especially how big WSU got)? It's pretty much gone now. I don't quite think that will happen with this current indy boom simply because of the cheapness and ease of access of the products, but I don't think it's out of the real of possibility, either.
Streaming helps, but the real reason is the talent pool and the matches that talent pool can put on. Streaming doesn't matter if you don't have a product that people wanna see, and what makes a product worth checking out starts from the talent booked. RWA in Pittsburgh is onDemand, no one outside of Pittsburgh watches it except maybe me because I got them for free. Social media has helped more than streaming because now you can see what other promotions all over the world are doing, that's how the PWG buzz started to begin with, but again, all those clips are the of the talent pool, and all those guys got over because of those superkick parties, those Ricochet/Ospreay things that Cornette hates, and those Ballplexes, and those Ishii v Shibata spots that people love. Conclusion, those things haven't made wrestling worse.

You're trying to qualify the indie momentum by a bunch of old promotions, and that surely shouldn't represent the current indies. From the ones you list, ROH hasn't been an indie in a long time, CHIKARA fucked up for overspending and booking, CZW can't overcome the ultraviolence shadow, and SHIMMER books 4 shows every other 4 months in irrelevant locations. From all those, they all have streaming services, so that's definitely not helping. PWG's buzz may have come down a little bit, but they're still strong, their BOLA tickets were 85 dlls for standing room and they sold out in 5 minutes, they're booking tons of people from all over the world, they're doing alright. If any of those are worse than they were 5-10 yrs ago, it's surely due to their management and not fans not liking them anymore, and fans come for the wrestling at the end of the day.

The reality is that things come and go, especially in wrestling, what was working 5-10 yrs ago is not necessarily gonna be cool anymore, companies come and go, but the one thing that we can't disagree is that we see more promotions running shows during the big WWE weekends, we see tons of indies in the UK and Mexico doing better, we see Ricochet and Tom Lawlor and Jeff Cobb and Pentagon booked all over the country, these guys are making a living from doing indies, that IMO is the real thing to show that indie wrestling is bigger right now, if all these guys can earn a living.

The WWE/TNA PPV thing may help the fans, but I don't expect a lot of people suddenly think they can now spend more money in other promotions because WWE is cheap.
Saying ROH isn't an indy changes the qualification of what an indy is. I am using the definition of a non-mainstream wrestling company (i.e. not WWE, TNA, New Japan, All Japan, or NOAH). What I'm trying to say is that the wealth is spread around a bit better without ROH and CZW monopolizing the top talent in their respective fields most weekends. I'm not sure that we see indies in the UK "getting better" (any more than they would on the normal curve) so much as we are exposed to them more. I bet if I went back and watched RevPro in 2014-2015, it'd be pretty freakin' great, just like RevPro is now. Pentagon is not getting booked all over the US because he suddenly got good. He's getting booked all over the US because LU showed us all how great he could be.
I'm not disputing that it is easier to make a living as an indy wrestler nowadays (especially for someone with an LU or ROH contract, or some sort of Japanese gig). I'm just saying that I don't think Brian Cage and Tommaso Ciampa trying to copy Ishii vs. Shibata has much- if anything- to do with it.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by cero2k » Aug 2nd, '17, 15:34

Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 14:01
Saying ROH isn't an indy changes the qualification of what an indy is. I am using the definition of a non-mainstream wrestling company (i.e. not WWE, TNA, New Japan, All Japan, or NOAH). What I'm trying to say is that the wealth is spread around a bit better without ROH and CZW monopolizing the top talent in their respective fields most weekends. I'm not sure that we see indies in the UK "getting better" (any more than they would on the normal curve) so much as we are exposed to them more. I bet if I went back and watched RevPro in 2014-2015, it'd be pretty freakin' great, just like RevPro is now. Pentagon is not getting booked all over the US because he suddenly got good. He's getting booked all over the US because LU showed us all how great he could be.
I'm not disputing that it is easier to make a living as an indy wrestler nowadays (especially for someone with an LU or ROH contract, or some sort of Japanese gig). I'm just saying that I don't think Brian Cage and Tommaso Ciampa trying to copy Ishii vs. Shibata has much- if anything- to do with it.
ROH is on TV, owned by a larger company, has exclusive contracts, in most of the definitions people use, ROH falls under one or another, if not all.

The UK scene got better the way that all those promotions started getting more money and more money means bigger places, more production, bringing in more wrestlers, exposing their own to larger audiences mean that PWGs take notice and call them in and those wrestlers get bigger and better and bring back their work to the UK and thus more people pay attention to RevPro or PROGRESS.

Pentagon definitely got better, comparing AAA Pentagon to LU Season 1 Pentagon to Pentagon Dark, he definitely improved in his character, his way of behaving, all of that. No one would be booking Pentagon if he was still this geek

the Ishii/Shibata thing is not the catalyst, but it's like the flippy style it's made some guys popular, and it's made some promotions popular, and it's made, overall, indie wrestling more appealing.
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 2nd, '17, 15:52

cero2k wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 15:34
Big Red Machine wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 14:01
Saying ROH isn't an indy changes the qualification of what an indy is. I am using the definition of a non-mainstream wrestling company (i.e. not WWE, TNA, New Japan, All Japan, or NOAH). What I'm trying to say is that the wealth is spread around a bit better without ROH and CZW monopolizing the top talent in their respective fields most weekends. I'm not sure that we see indies in the UK "getting better" (any more than they would on the normal curve) so much as we are exposed to them more. I bet if I went back and watched RevPro in 2014-2015, it'd be pretty freakin' great, just like RevPro is now. Pentagon is not getting booked all over the US because he suddenly got good. He's getting booked all over the US because LU showed us all how great he could be.
I'm not disputing that it is easier to make a living as an indy wrestler nowadays (especially for someone with an LU or ROH contract, or some sort of Japanese gig). I'm just saying that I don't think Brian Cage and Tommaso Ciampa trying to copy Ishii vs. Shibata has much- if anything- to do with it.
ROH is on TV, owned by a larger company, has exclusive contracts, in most of the definitions people use, ROH falls under one or another, if not all.

The UK scene got better the way that all those promotions started getting more money and more money means bigger places, more production, bringing in more wrestlers, exposing their own to larger audiences mean that PWGs take notice and call them in and those wrestlers get bigger and better and bring back their work to the UK and thus more people pay attention to RevPro or PROGRESS.
And I don't think they get that money or exposure if this is five years ago and you have to pay for DVDs to be shipped half way across the world before anyone in the US or Japan gets to see them.
cero2k wrote: Aug 2nd, '17, 15:34

the Ishii/Shibata thing is not the catalyst, but it's like the flippy style it's made some guys popular, and it's made some promotions popular, and it's made, overall, indie wrestling more appealing.
The flippy style has been around forever. That's what made the Briscoes, Amazing Red, S.A.T., Backseat Boyz etc. big in 2001-2002. The most in demand guys from the UK at that point were Johnny Storm and Jody Fleisch. It's what made Dragon Gate popular in the US in 2005-2009. There is a reason that Gabe kept booking the Special K guys and T.W.A. guys in these big spotfests on every ROH show. It ebbs and wanes. The thing that is different now is the delivery system.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by cero2k » Aug 3rd, '17, 11:10

so Meltzer claimed that Ishii BLOCKED that last Destino and it wasn't a no sell. I rewatched it and there is s slight stunner from Ishii on Naito, but if that was the case, it was somewhat botched
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: BRM Reviews NJPW G1 Climax 27: Day 9

Post by Big Red Machine » Aug 3rd, '17, 12:26

cero2k wrote: Aug 3rd, '17, 11:10 so Meltzer claimed that Ishii BLOCKED that last Destino and it wasn't a no sell. I rewatched it and there is s slight stunner from Ishii on Naito, but if that was the case, it was somewhat botched
People on ROHWorld have also been saying it was a botch. Even so, just the fact that Ishii is at the point where it didn't even occur to me that this was a botch rather than a deliberate no-sell of a finisher says a lot about the man's (lack of) psychology. It never should have gotten to the point where someone would consider that that is what happened without a second thought.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests