BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

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BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 2nd, '19, 18:36

wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3 (10/6/2019)- Oberhausen, Germany


OLIVER CARTER vs. RUST TAYLOR vs. SCOTTY DAVIS vs. JAY SKILLET- 5.75/10
Six and a half minutes of great opening-match action.

ARROWS OF HUNGARY PROMO- good

KILLER KELLY vs. LEYLA HIRSCH- 6/10
Good for the seven minutes it got, but why the hell did this only get seven minutes? I really hope they’re telling a story where Leyla finally learns to stop doing that damn moonsault because her gimmick is that she is an amateur-style wrestler and she always winds up missing the moonsault and usually losing soon after.

PRETTY BASTARDS PROMO- good
They cut a promo bragging about being in the finals in their very first tournament appearance, then remind us all that they’re doing this for VollGasteren. They came off as perfectly smarmy to the point where those of us who are certain they were the ones who attacked VollGasteren would get angry at it while someone who hasn’t yet figured it out might enjoy their brashness.

THE WORK HORSEMEN vs. SCHADENFREUDE (Lucky Kid & Kyle Fletcher)- 6.75/10
A decent twelve-minute tag team match with a GREAT finish. Lucky had Anthony Henry in his version of La Mistica but he saw Drake on the top rope to try to break it up via moonsault, so as Drake went to jump Lucky rolled the hold over so that Drake’s moonsault missed then rolled Henry back over to properly apply the hold and get the win.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- not so good
We got a post-match show of respect that went on WAY longer than it needed to. Then the Work Horsemen left and Lucky and Fletcher celebrated their win some more, which actually felt very odd because it’s not like there was anything on the line here other than the W and the winner’s purse.
Eventually Purge Club showed up. Fletcher charged up the ramp at them before Lucky could even react and ate a baseball bat to the ribs and then several shots with a nightstick, putting him down moments into the fight and leaving Lucky alone. I liked the idea, but doing it like this made Fletcher look like a total chump. Lucky got some good shots off on Purge Club before being cut off by a nightstick to the head, then hit with their finishing combination (Bouncer hold the opponent in a full nelson for superkick from Kiev, then hits the opponent with a double-arm DDT.

wXw SHOTGUN TITLE MATCH: “The Avalanche” Robert Dreissker(c) vs. Flamita- 7.25/10
Just under nine and a half minutes of excellent storytelling. One guy is a quick little Luchador, the other guy is a large, strong mountain. A great little rendition of the classic battle of size and strength vs. speed and agility.

wXw UNIFIED WORLD WRESTLING TITLE MATCH: Timothy Thatcher(c) vs. Jonathan Gresham- 8/10
Fifteen wonderful minutes of technical wrestling. The story of the match was Gresham working over the knee, and Thatcher sold beautifully. This was one of those matches that really makes Gresham’s “octopus” nickname feel apt.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- GREAT
First, we got a nice show of respect between Thatcher and Gresham. After Gresham left, Ilja Dragunov came out- presumably to cut a promo on Thatcher- but as Ilja got into the ring Thatcher just walked right by him, not even acknowledging him (and giving him the disrespectful shoulder bump on the way, just to make sure Ilja knew he was ignoring him on purpose).
Ilja cut an angry promo on the fans, the promotion and Director of Sport Karsten Beck. Hen ranted about how wXw should be giving him every world title shot in recognition ofr all he has done for the promotion. He demanded that Karsten (who was at ringside, as he is for all title matches) get into the ring, whereupon Ilja berated him and then punched him in the stomach. Ilja began choking Karsten but David Starr came out to make the save. Security pulled them apart, and Karsten booked them in a match for after intermission. While the fans had to wait a bit to see this match, we watching at home didn’t have to wait more than few moments to see…

DAVID STARR vs. ILJA DRAGUNOV- 8/10
Ilja jumped Starr from behind during his entrance, which, while definitely heelish, did at least prevent us from having to hear Starr’s entire Jericho-esque list of nicknames. That attack was the begging of a brutal, vicious fight. This was a war, plain and simple… and they didn’t need to use a single weapon. They just beat the sh*t out of each other. The only thing I didn’t like was Ilja no-selling a belly-to-belly superplex.
Highlights here included a Canadian Destroyer where both the physics and set-up felt like they made perfect sense, Ilja brutalizing Starr with spinning backfists and Starr defiantly firing back, and Ilja hitting Starr with both a Gotch-style powerbomb, and what I can only describe as a “Gotch-style German suplex,” even though I know that sounds redundant. All of that and the finish, which was just sick.

wXw WOMEN’S TITLE MATCH: Amale Winchester(c) vs. LuFisto- 5.75/10
LuFisto did the best she could with Amale. I’m sorry, but Amale is just SOOOOO sub-par when you compare her with the other women in this company that the decision to put the belt on her was baffling and the decision to keep it on her for as long as they have has been downright dumbfounding.

19th ANNIVERSARY SHOW ANNOUNCEMENTS- Meiko Satomura will be cashing in her Femme Fatales victory from last year for a shot at the wXw Women’s Title, Robbie Brookside will be inducted into the wXw Hall of Fame, and Kassius Ohno will be appearing. The crowd was completely shocked by the last announcement.

DANNY BURCH & ONEY LORCAN PROMO ABOUT WANTING TO WIN WORLD TAG TEAM FESTIVAL- fine

WORLD TAG TEAM FESTIVAL TOURNAMENT FINALS FOR THE VACANT wXw WORLD TAG TEAM TITLES: Pretty Bastards vs. Danny Burch & Oney Lorcan vs. Arrows of Hungary- no rating, good segment
This match has no count-outs, no DQs, and will be fought under both elimination and tornado rules. As you might expect, they brawled a lot. It built up to one spot where Icarus went to the second level to set up a big dive, as he has done several times in wXw… but then Prince Ahura pulled him down from the railing rather than pushing him off. I guess it makes some sense in that he very badly wants to prove that he belongs in this tournament, but it’s still kind of odd to see someone essentially stealing the “glory” of the dive instead of shoving the opponent off a ledge in an attempt to injure the opponent in an effort to get the win.
Ahura then tried to do his spot where he strips his pants off while standing on the railing, and when he started to fall backwards I thought he had legit lost his balance but it was just Icarus pulling him down. In the end, no one did a big balcony dive, which makes you wonder why they even teased it. They did, at least, end the sequence with Ahura hip-tossing Icarus over the railing of the staircase for, a still impressive but thankfully much shorter fall onto the big pile, so they did give the fans something similar to what they teased. I’m not a big fan of those sorts of big, dangerous spots, but if you’re going to do one, it seems counterproductive to first tease an even bigger one to only deliver a lesser one in the end.
One thing I did like about that spot here is that at least they made it actually count in the match, as after throwing Icarus over the railing, Ahura dragged him to the ring where he and Maggot hit their finisher on him and pinned him to eliminate him. This was much better than the usual way this spot is done, where someone does the big spot and then everyone sells for a while and then gets back up, with the end result of this big dangerous dive being fans chanting “HOLY SH*T!” rather than it actually meaning something for the story of the match.

After that, Lorcan got into the ring, but he, too, was alone for a bit as Burch was still selling from being part of the pile on Icarus’ involuntary dive. He was able to hold his own for a bit before getting overwhelmed, but Burch was able to make it back to the ring to bail him out. Burch & Lorcan took over and looked to have things won when Bobby Gunns ran in and attacked them. Gunns celebrated with Maggot and Ahura and started to beat down Burch and Lorcan when Norman Harras came out.
At this point Rico Bushido accurately described things as getting “getting weirder by the moment.” Harras was making such of big show getting ready to attack Gunns and the Pretty Bastards that it was pathetically obvious that this was going to be a Russo-swerve. They beat Burch and Lorcan down some more before Pretty Bastards hit their finisher and got the win. Announcer Andy Jackson went on about how this was the new generation stepping up and taking their place while Rico Bushido decried their actions as disgraceful.
I’m not a big fan of taking one of your major tournaments or a main event of one of your biggest shows of the year and turning it into an angle via a f*ck finish, but I am okay with doing it every once in a while (if you do it well). wXw does not do these things very frequently, and aside from the Harras Russo-swerve, I thought this was done rather well. I also think it was important to give Bobby Gunns something big to do after his title loss last night and greatly appreciate the way they built Harras up over the course of this weekend before doing something like this with him. That being said, I do think it was a big misstep to not turn Pretty Bastards heel before revealing that they are the ones who attacked VollGasteren. Of course, maybe they, too, were a red herring and someone else did the deed, but I’m certain that’s not the case. So, overall, I’m more than fine with this segment being what it was, but I do have those reservations.

This was a great show from wXw, full of storyline moments and great wrestling. Parts of it definitely could I been better, but this was definitely one of those shows where they chose certain things to focus on and pushed those hard, while letting everything else sink or swim on it’s own in the time they gave it, and everything other than the women’s title match was at least good for the time it got. The main event angle definitely has the potential to be something we look back on in a few years as a huge moment in wXw history, but whether it ultimately becomes one or not, for the moment we definitely have something of a brave new world in front of us as embark on the road to Broken Rules XIX.


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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by cero2k » Nov 3rd, '19, 21:24

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 2nd, '19, 18:36


19th ANNIVERSARY SHOW ANNOUNCEMENTS- Meiko Satomura will be cashing in her Femme Fatales victory from last year for a shot at the wXw Women’s Title, Robbie Brookside will be inducted into the wXw Hall of Fame, and Kassius Ohno will be appearing. The crowd was completely shocked by the last announcement.
I'm surprised that they're surprised, Hero is pretty much Europe exclusive now and wXw has always been able to use the NXT geeks anyway.

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 4th, '19, 06:59

cero2k wrote:
Nov 3rd, '19, 21:24
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 2nd, '19, 18:36


19th ANNIVERSARY SHOW ANNOUNCEMENTS- Meiko Satomura will be cashing in her Femme Fatales victory from last year for a shot at the wXw Women’s Title, Robbie Brookside will be inducted into the wXw Hall of Fame, and Kassius Ohno will be appearing. The crowd was completely shocked by the last announcement.
I'm surprised that they're surprised, Hero is pretty much Europe exclusive now and wXw has always been able to use the NXT geeks anyway.
I was surprised at first, too, but when you think about it, aside from Lorcan, everyone else wXw has been allowed to use in the past eighteen months or so has been a home-grown guy (RingKampf, Ilja, Martin Stone to an extent).
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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Thelone » Nov 4th, '19, 08:13

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 2nd, '19, 18:36
wXw WOMEN’S TITLE MATCH: Amale Winchester(c) vs. LuFisto- 5.75/10
LuFisto did the best she could with Amale. I’m sorry, but Amale is just SOOOOO sub-par when you compare her with the other women in this company that the decision to put the belt on her was baffling and the decision to keep it on her for as long as they have has been downright dumbfounding.

19th ANNIVERSARY SHOW ANNOUNCEMENTS- Meiko Satomura will be cashing in her Femme Fatales victory from last year for a shot at the wXw Women’s Title, Robbie Brookside will be inducted into the wXw Hall of Fame, and Kassius Ohno will be appearing. The crowd was completely shocked by the last announcement.
The bigger issue seems to be that both the Progress and wXw women's titles were made just so they could put something around Toni Storm's waist and not much else. Now that she's gone, Progress is going with "big name foreigner holding the belt" while wXw is going full ROH with "eh, let's put the belt on this local(ish) girl who's cheap and isn't going to leave anytime soon".

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 4th, '19, 08:50

Thelone wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 08:13
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 2nd, '19, 18:36
wXw WOMEN’S TITLE MATCH: Amale Winchester(c) vs. LuFisto- 5.75/10
LuFisto did the best she could with Amale. I’m sorry, but Amale is just SOOOOO sub-par when you compare her with the other women in this company that the decision to put the belt on her was baffling and the decision to keep it on her for as long as they have has been downright dumbfounding.

19th ANNIVERSARY SHOW ANNOUNCEMENTS- Meiko Satomura will be cashing in her Femme Fatales victory from last year for a shot at the wXw Women’s Title, Robbie Brookside will be inducted into the wXw Hall of Fame, and Kassius Ohno will be appearing. The crowd was completely shocked by the last announcement.
The bigger issue seems to be that both the Progress and wXw women's titles were made just so they could put something around Toni Storm's waist and not much else. Now that she's gone, Progress is going with "big name foreigner holding the belt" while wXw is going full ROH with "eh, let's put the belt on this local(ish) girl who's cheap and isn't going to leave anytime soon".
wXw has a good core of women. It's just the Amale choice in particular that is baffling.
Progress had a great group when they made the title and brought in some strong names. I think STARDOM just makes it hard to book anyone who isn't under WWE contract consistently.
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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by cero2k » Nov 4th, '19, 09:09

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 08:50

wXw has a good core of women. It's just the Amale choice in particular that is baffling.
Progress had a great group when they made the title and brought in some strong names. I think STARDOM just makes it hard to book anyone who isn't under WWE contract consistently.
Does Stardom even pull wXw girls anymore? Aside from Hayter, Zoe Lucas, and Bea, Stardom isn't using a lot of european girls now a days.

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 4th, '19, 09:55

cero2k wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 09:09
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 08:50

wXw has a good core of women. It's just the Amale choice in particular that is baffling.
Progress had a great group when they made the title and brought in some strong names. I think STARDOM just makes it hard to book anyone who isn't under WWE contract consistently.
Does Stardom even pull wXw girls anymore? Aside from Hayter, Zoe Lucas, and Bea, Stardom isn't using a lot of european girls now a days.
It's not about pulling so much as already having everyone booked. And STARDOM isn't the only culprit, either. But the point is that anyone who gaind reaction in Europe is quickly grabbed by either WWE or some Joshi promotion, making it hard for anyone to push a Millie McKenzie or Debbie Keitel or Valkyrie to the moon. Look at the disaster RevPro's division has been.
I think wXw has done a good job recently building up people like Layla Hirsch and they are the ones who made Killer Kelly, but when you can't get consistent dates on anyone who isn't a fly-in, it's hard to book a division.
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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by cero2k » Nov 4th, '19, 11:43

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 09:55

It's not about pulling so much as already having everyone booked. And STARDOM isn't the only culprit, either. But the point is that anyone who gaind reaction in Europe is quickly grabbed by either WWE or some Joshi promotion, making it hard for anyone to push a Millie McKenzie or Debbie Keitel or Valkyrie to the moon. Look at the disaster RevPro's division has been.
I think wXw has done a good job recently building up people like Layla Hirsch and they are the ones who made Killer Kelly, but when you can't get consistent dates on anyone who isn't a fly-in, it's hard to book a division.
Nothing has really changed other than WWE getting their hands in the UK scene, there's really no other culprits, the UK scene flourished with Japan and the US booking talent from them, it was even Stardom that made women like Toni and Bea into big deals. wXw is just suffering the consequences of bending the knee to the Fed.

Example #46 of "WWE cooled down the UK scene"

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 4th, '19, 12:37

cero2k wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 11:43
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 09:55

It's not about pulling so much as already having everyone booked. And STARDOM isn't the only culprit, either. But the point is that anyone who gaind reaction in Europe is quickly grabbed by either WWE or some Joshi promotion, making it hard for anyone to push a Millie McKenzie or Debbie Keitel or Valkyrie to the moon. Look at the disaster RevPro's division has been.
I think wXw has done a good job recently building up people like Layla Hirsch and they are the ones who made Killer Kelly, but when you can't get consistent dates on anyone who isn't a fly-in, it's hard to book a division.
Nothing has really changed other than WWE getting their hands in the UK scene, there's really no other culprits, the UK scene flourished with Japan and the US booking talent from them, it was even Stardom that made women like Toni and Bea into big deals. wXw is just suffering the consequences of bending the knee to the Fed.

Example #46 of "WWE cooled down the UK scene"
1. Joshi has been growing. If not STARDOM then Ice Ribbon or TJP or Oz or whoever else.
2. In wXw's case it's more judgment errors (Amale) Melanie Gray's retirement (goodbye top heel) and Killer Kelly's injury. Have a healthy Kelly and have her wrestling Valkyrie and people are much happier. But they have a story they want to tell with Amale and Karsten Beck.
They made Leyla Hirsch in one weekend. They'll be fine. They have a certail.style that WWE doesn't seem to care for. It's Joshi groupe that are taking talent from them.
3. Being a "bend the knee fed" has nothing to do with it. Look at RevPro. Look at ROH. If anything, the "bend the knee" feds have had the strongest women's divisions in Europe (wXw, PROGRESS, OTT), and I think a lot of that has been due to knowing how to get new people over via stories or do new things with old people via stories.
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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by cero2k » Nov 5th, '19, 08:20

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 12:37

1. Joshi has been growing. If not STARDOM then Ice Ribbon or TJP or Oz or whoever else.
2. In wXw's case it's more judgment errors (Amale) Melanie Gray's retirement (goodbye top heel) and Killer Kelly's injury. Have a healthy Kelly and have her wrestling Valkyrie and people are much happier. But they have a story they want to tell with Amale and Karsten Beck.
They made Leyla Hirsch in one weekend. They'll be fine. They have a certail.style that WWE doesn't seem to care for. It's Joshi groupe that are taking talent from them.
3. Being a "bend the knee fed" has nothing to do with it. Look at RevPro. Look at ROH. If anything, the "bend the knee" feds have had the strongest women's divisions in Europe (wXw, PROGRESS, OTT), and I think a lot of that has been due to knowing how to get new people over via stories or do new things with old people via stories.
1/2. none of those Joshi promotions use gaijins, the only other than Stardom is Sendai Girls, which has also been at the same level since before the UK got dried up, they haven't grown at all. You can't blame Joshi on this. The female talent is still out there, wXw is just not using them, and from what it seems, they're just relying on a couple of women instead of building backups.

3. RevPro and ROH partnered with a promotion without women, and thus nothing similar at all. Both those promotions have gotten a lot from NJPW, to the point that they rely on it now (which is a completely different story), but we really can't blame NJPW for cooling off the UK scene. Every promotion regardless of their storytelling capacity is dried up, the only one with something going on for them is OTT because David Starr is a wrestling treasure, and god knows what will happen now that the Massive head is gone (because of WWE).

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Thelone » Nov 6th, '19, 16:20

cero2k wrote:
Nov 5th, '19, 08:20
1/2. none of those Joshi promotions use gaijins, the only other than Stardom is Sendai Girls, which has also been at the same level since before the UK got dried up, they haven't grown at all. You can't blame Joshi on this. The female talent is still out there, wXw is just not using them, and from what it seems, they're just relying on a couple of women instead of building backups.
Exactly, and just look at Shanna. You'd think a veteran like her who can work would be booked anywhere worth a damn, but she was only working for Southside (which is dead now) and Kamikaze Pro consistantly with a few random french and european/UK appearences on the side. Of course, you probably would have to fly her in from the Riviera while Winchester and whoever they bring for spot shows in Germany are driving there by themselves.

The bigger issue is that the talent in continental Europe really isn't there and any UK (+ most of western Europe) import is a small fly-in, whether they're actually flying or taking the train. It's fine that they're trying to stay (kinda) local, but that's a problem when said area is a barren wasteland.

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 6th, '19, 19:59

cero2k wrote:
Nov 5th, '19, 08:20
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 4th, '19, 12:37

1. Joshi has been growing. If not STARDOM then Ice Ribbon or TJP or Oz or whoever else.
2. In wXw's case it's more judgment errors (Amale) Melanie Gray's retirement (goodbye top heel) and Killer Kelly's injury. Have a healthy Kelly and have her wrestling Valkyrie and people are much happier. But they have a story they want to tell with Amale and Karsten Beck.
They made Leyla Hirsch in one weekend. They'll be fine. They have a certail.style that WWE doesn't seem to care for. It's Joshi groupe that are taking talent from them.
3. Being a "bend the knee fed" has nothing to do with it. Look at RevPro. Look at ROH. If anything, the "bend the knee" feds have had the strongest women's divisions in Europe (wXw, PROGRESS, OTT), and I think a lot of that has been due to knowing how to get new people over via stories or do new things with old people via stories.
1/2. none of those Joshi promotions use gaijins, the only other than Stardom is Sendai Girls, which has also been at the same level since before the UK got dried up, they haven't grown at all. You can't blame Joshi on this. The female talent is still out there, wXw is just not using them, and from what it seems, they're just relying on a couple of women instead of building backups.

3. RevPro and ROH partnered with a promotion without women, and thus nothing similar at all. Both those promotions have gotten a lot from NJPW, to the point that they rely on it now (which is a completely different story), but we really can't blame NJPW for cooling off the UK scene. Every promotion regardless of their storytelling capacity is dried up, the only one with something going on for them is OTT because David Starr is a wrestling treasure, and god knows what will happen now that the Massive head is gone (because of WWE).
1/2. I'm not faulting the Joshi promotions. The fault lies in non-Japanese promoters for not investing in the likes of Millie McKenzie enough to make it worth her while to tell Sendai Girls "no thanks. I think I'll sit this tour out because I've got
commitments already to wXw/RevPro/OTT/PROGRESS/whoever else.

3. New Japan is definitely guilty of taking key talents away from the UK scene right when they get hot (El Phantasmo being the biggest example, but Aussie Open, too, if they go, but the lack of ZSJ, Ospreay, and others has also pretty clearly hurt a lot of British promotions).
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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by cero2k » Nov 6th, '19, 20:36

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 6th, '19, 19:59

3. New Japan is definitely guilty of taking key talents away from the UK scene right when they get hot (El Phantasmo being the biggest example, but Aussie Open, too, if they go, but the lack of ZSJ, Ospreay, and others has also pretty clearly hurt a lot of British promotions).
Ospreay/Scurll/Sabre were all really above the UK scene when New Japan took them and they still went back there for the longest time. The UK scene got big with British Strong Style, Travis Banks, Toni Storm, WALTER, all those guys that came after the LDRS2000. New Japan didn't tell them to stop working PROGRESS or WCPW or OTT or whatnot, everything was good until WWE came in, signed everyone, and implemented their restrictions. Leave it to WWE to make people stop caring for BSS, Storm, WALTER, and Banks.

Taking talent has always been a thing, it's the natural progression of wrestling, indie wrestling always survives it, but WWE managed to kill the whole scene without even getting superstars out of it.

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 6th, '19, 20:47

cero2k wrote:
Nov 6th, '19, 20:36
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 6th, '19, 19:59

3. New Japan is definitely guilty of taking key talents away from the UK scene right when they get hot (El Phantasmo being the biggest example, but Aussie Open, too, if they go, but the lack of ZSJ, Ospreay, and others has also pretty clearly hurt a lot of British promotions).
Ospreay/Scurll/Sabre were all really above the UK scene when New Japan took them and they still went back there for the longest time. The UK scene got big with British Strong Style, Travis Banks, Toni Storm, WALTER, all those guys that came after the LDRS2000. New Japan didn't tell them to stop working PROGRESS or WCPW or OTT or whatnot, everything was good until WWE came in, signed everyone, and implemented their restrictions. Leave it to WWE to make people stop caring for BSS, Storm, WALTER, and Banks.

Taking talent has always been a thing, it's the natural progression of wrestling, indie wrestling always survives it, but WWE managed to kill the whole scene without even getting superstars out of it.
There are a lot of smaller places that Ospreay/Scurll/Sabre were working that they don't work anymore because they don't have the time. WWE hasn't made their people stop working PROGRESS, OTT, or wXw, either, other than certain times when there were conflicting dates, which is no different than what NJPW does. And the talent pool is still refreshing itself. Lucky Kid, Veit Muller, Michael Oku, A-Kid, Carlos Romo, and El Phantasmo have all had their big rises in the wake of other guys spending more time working for WWE and NJPW.

The UK scene isn't dead. It has consolidated a bit more, certainly, but in terms of drawing, it's pretty healthy. Germany, too, and Spain/Portugal now seems to be growing a scene as well.
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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by cero2k » Nov 7th, '19, 08:34

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 6th, '19, 20:47

There are a lot of smaller places that Ospreay/Scurll/Sabre were working that they don't work anymore because they don't have the time. WWE hasn't made their people stop working PROGRESS, OTT, or wXw, either, other than certain times when there were conflicting dates, which is no different than what NJPW does. And the talent pool is still refreshing itself. Lucky Kid, Veit Muller, Michael Oku, A-Kid, Carlos Romo, and El Phantasmo have all had their big rises in the wake of other guys spending more time working for WWE and NJPW.

The UK scene isn't dead. It has consolidated a bit more, certainly, but in terms of drawing, it's pretty healthy. Germany, too, and Spain/Portugal now seems to be growing a scene as well.
Ospreay/Scurll/Sabre graduated the UK scene, they had nothing left to do there, they put over guys to replace them, and when that new set of guys had to build their own replacements, WWE pulled them and all those little companies suffered because no replacements were built. The only promotions with a minimum amount of life are those that can still hope and book some WWE approved talent. NJPW always allowed all their guys to go wherever they wanted in Europe, It was ALL WWE doing.

The talent pool is just now starting to refresh itself now that promotions had to start building people, it's been a long year to do so, but the UK scene is not healthy. It may not be literally dead, but sure as hell is cooled down. Those guys that you mention, Muller, Oku, and Romo are still far from branching out, Muller is a wXw only guy for instance. A-Kid had a 5 star match more than a year and a half ago, he should be on top of the indies right now, but he's no one, he makes no noise because he didn't have a UK scene to push him to the stars. ELP is the only one making noise because New Japan made sure to make something out of him.

We went from 10-15 or so promotions making tons of noise, bringing in people from all over the world and UK wrestlers traveling all over the world, and now the only thing that makes noise are OTT's David Starr promos, and hell, OTT that can only rely on their main event now lost both WALTER and Devlin. I know you're a fan of these WWE promotions, but ask anyone and they'll confirm that WWE cooled down Europe.

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Re: BRM Reviews wXw World Tag Team Festival 2019: Night 3

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 7th, '19, 10:12

cero2k wrote:
Nov 7th, '19, 08:34
Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 6th, '19, 20:47

There are a lot of smaller places that Ospreay/Scurll/Sabre were working that they don't work anymore because they don't have the time. WWE hasn't made their people stop working PROGRESS, OTT, or wXw, either, other than certain times when there were conflicting dates, which is no different than what NJPW does. And the talent pool is still refreshing itself. Lucky Kid, Veit Muller, Michael Oku, A-Kid, Carlos Romo, and El Phantasmo have all had their big rises in the wake of other guys spending more time working for WWE and NJPW.

The UK scene isn't dead. It has consolidated a bit more, certainly, but in terms of drawing, it's pretty healthy. Germany, too, and Spain/Portugal now seems to be growing a scene as well.
Ospreay/Scurll/Sabre graduated the UK scene, they had nothing left to do there, they put over guys to replace them, and when that new set of guys had to build their own replacements, WWE pulled them and all those little companies suffered because no replacements were built. The only promotions with a minimum amount of life are those that can still hope and book some WWE approved talent. NJPW always allowed all their guys to go wherever they wanted in Europe, It was ALL WWE doing.

The talent pool is just now starting to refresh itself now that promotions had to start building people, it's been a long year to do so, but the UK scene is not healthy. It may not be literally dead, but sure as hell is cooled down. Those guys that you mention, Muller, Oku, and Romo are still far from branching out, Muller is a wXw only guy for instance. A-Kid had a 5 star match more than a year and a half ago, he should be on top of the indies right now, but he's no one, he makes no noise because he didn't have a UK scene to push him to the stars. ELP is the only one making noise because New Japan made sure to make something out of him.

We went from 10-15 or so promotions making tons of noise, bringing in people from all over the world and UK wrestlers traveling all over the world, and now the only thing that makes noise are OTT's David Starr promos, and hell, OTT that can only rely on their main event now lost both WALTER and Devlin. I know you're a fan of these WWE promotions, but ask anyone and they'll confirm that WWE cooled down Europe.
You say "graduated" line it's a minor league.
And they really didn't put over people to replace them. Scroll put ZSJ over on his way out of most places, and NJPW wouldn't let Ospreay and Zack pit people over. NJPW let their guys work wherever, but they almost never let anyone who was even midcsrr level or higher lose. At least WWE lets their guys lose.

There weren't 10-15 promotions making noise in the UK. Not even if we include Ireland and Germany. WCPW dying had more to do with YouTube killing their revenue stream than anything else, and other than them, who used to he making noise but now isn't? Maybe Attack, and, if you really want to be generous, IPW:UK, but PROGRESS, OTT, wXw, FCP, and EVE have all grown, while RevPro's issues have a lot more to do with their own poor booking and the effect of NJPW on their product than anything else.

ELP was eadily RevPro's top babyface and they spend a good long year pushing him and building to that ladder match with David Starr and he got his big win... and then NJPW immediately scoops him up full time and turns him heel.
Yes, Muller and Oku generally stick to their home promotions, but they're also still both pretty young. A-Kid has had several great matches, but no one pays attention unless Zack ir Ospreay are involved (and the way RevPro has booked him and Romo in their go-anywhere tag division hasn't helped). Maybe now that they're feuding, people will start to notice. It's not that Europe is dying. The problem is that people are so caught up on NJPW, WWE's main roster woes, AEW, etc. that they dont pay attention to anything else.
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