2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

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Rabid619
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2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by Rabid619 » Sep 7th, '11, 22:42

WWE has basically addressed that for now Superstars from both shows will be on both shows every week. Basically, no more brand split YET only the big names have been on both shows.

What are your thoughts on this??
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Verdun
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Re: 2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by Verdun » Sep 7th, '11, 22:55

I think its hurting the lower cards too much. Some people are getting the screen time they deserve like Evan and Kofi, Dolph Ziggler, etc. But they're not making room to develop new talent. Not to mention they're gonna stretch their front talent thin and wearing them out.

On paper it sounds like a fun idea, but I think if they continue like this its just gonna cost them in the long term.

One more thing, its gonna hurt the desire to see both shows. I don't have to worry about missing Cena on Monday, I can see him on Friday! Dividing the drawing power forces people to see the big names of both shows.
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badnewzxl
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Re: 2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by badnewzxl » Sep 8th, '11, 02:46

anyone who watch wrestling before WWE's brand split will tell you that this is a good thing; this is how wrestling is supposed to be. WWE simply does not have enough ACTUAL TALENT to have two shows with two separate rosters. Who on the lowercard even gets time on either show? Nobody. All the lowercard guys are on Superstars and NXT. Your midcard is Rhodes, Ziggler, Swagger, Riley, etc; not Kidd, Reks, Hawkins, etc.

plus, you give fans added incentive to watch both shows when you PUT THE PPL FANS WANNA SEE ON BOTH SHOWS! Nobody's gonna NOT watch Raw just bc they can watch SD! and see the same ppl; they're gonna NOT wanna miss either show bc they'll miss something important (you know, like during the MNW; the PEAK of wrestling's popularity). And if that's anyone's reasoning behind how this is a bad idea, then what is your excuse for the SD! Rebound and the RAW Rebound? They already recap what happened on the Raw on SD! and vice versa; how does having one roster change anything?

My biggest reason for loving this end of the brand extension is the fact that having two rosters is what's limited the superstars from getting over. Who's gotten over since 06 thanks to the brand extension? Not a single wrestler. Morrison's come close, but only bc he's been traded back and forth between brands. The very same thing can be done without having separate rosters and it could be done much better if the storylines have six to ten shows to develop instead of just three to five....
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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 8th, '11, 12:34

badnewzxl wrote:anyone who watch wrestling before WWE's brand split will tell you that this is a good thing; this is how wrestling is supposed to be. WWE simply does not have enough ACTUAL TALENT to have two shows with two separate rosters. Who on the lowercard even gets time on either show? Nobody. All the lowercard guys are on Superstars and NXT. Your midcard is Rhodes, Ziggler, Swagger, Riley, etc; not Kidd, Reks, Hawkins, etc.

plus, you give fans added incentive to watch both shows when you PUT THE PPL FANS WANNA SEE ON BOTH SHOWS! Nobody's gonna NOT watch Raw just bc they can watch SD! and see the same ppl; they're gonna NOT wanna miss either show bc they'll miss something important (you know, like during the MNW; the PEAK of wrestling's popularity). And if that's anyone's reasoning behind how this is a bad idea, then what is your excuse for the SD! Rebound and the RAW Rebound? They already recap what happened on the Raw on SD! and vice versa; how does having one roster change anything?

My biggest reason for loving this end of the brand extension is the fact that having two rosters is what's limited the superstars from getting over. Who's gotten over since 06 thanks to the brand extension? Not a single wrestler. Morrison's come close, but only bc he's been traded back and forth between brands. The very same thing can be done without having separate rosters and it could be done much better if the storylines have six to ten shows to develop instead of just three to five....
I 100% disagree. The original reason for the brand extension was that WWE had too many big names (Hogan, Hall, Nash, Taker, Rock, Austin, Triple H, Jericho, Flair, Angle, Booker T, DDP, and Big Show, plus Benoit, who was due back from an injury soon, and Lesnar, who they had planned to push to the moon). For a lot of these guys, they were over enough that being on TV on both Raw and Smackdown wouldn't get them any more over than they already were. There were also a lot of midcard guys with TONS of talent but who weren't going to get the time to get over enough because of if a guy like Rock or Austin could appear on a show, fans would be disappointed if he didn't. In order to not disappoint the fans, the time that these midcarders needed to get over was being given to main eventers who weren't actually benefiting from it. The brand split created a kayfabe reason for these guys not to appear on every show. If you went to Smackdown, you knew not to expect to see Undertaker or Austin or Flair, so you wouldn't be disappointed if you didn't see them.

Not having to write all of their big names onto both shows freed up room for midcarders. It is no coincidence that immediately after the brand split, the following midcarders got a lot more TV time and a lot more PPV matches:
Lance Storm
Test
Christian
Edge
Eddie
Chavo
RVD (had been reduced to midcard status once the Invasion ended because of lack of air-time)
Booker T (same as RVD)
Kane
Rey (would have been nothing but a crusierweight without the time that he was allowed to have)

While nowadays WWE doesn't have such a clogging of names at the top (only Cena, Orton, Christian, Punk, Del Rio, Rey, Sheamus, Big Show), they have a TON of midcarders who can break out if given the airtime and good booking:
Ziggler (who already proved this last year)
Miz (same as Ziggler, but to a lesser extent)
Dragon
Kofi
JoMo
Bourne
Cody Rhodes
Barrett
And they have Tyler Black, Jon Moxley, and Husky Harris all sitting in developmental.

A brand split makes it easier for these guys to get over by giving them the needed TV time.
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badnewzxl
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Re: 2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by badnewzxl » Sep 8th, '11, 16:52

Big Red Machine wrote:
badnewzxl wrote:
While nowadays WWE doesn't have such a clogging of names at the top (only Cena, Orton, Christian, Punk, Del Rio, Rey, Sheamus, Big Show), they have a TON of midcarders who can break out if given the airtime and good booking:
Ziggler (who already proved this last year)
Miz (same as Ziggler, but to a lesser extent)
Dragon
Kofi
JoMo
Bourne
Cody Rhodes
Barrett
And they have Tyler Black, Jon Moxley, and Husky Harris all sitting in developmental.

A brand split makes it easier for these guys to get over by giving them the needed TV time.
1) the fact that they don't have that clogging you speak of is why they need to end the brand extension; they need to have most of those top stars on both shows so ppl will watch both shows. They don't have to show you the same midcarders on both shows; they can still mix them up, but the fact that you're not sure if they'll be on RAW or SD! gives you a reason to check out both shows, just in case your fav guys are there. If you KNOW no one you like is gonna be on SD! bc you don't like the roster, there's no chance you're gonna check it out; but if you love Punk or Morrison or Ziggler, and there's a possibility they're gonna be on both shows, you'll most likely check both shows out. Am I right?

2) You seem to have some foresight I can't understand, so please answer this for me: Since 2006 (when WWE stopped having the clog of top talent) what midcarders have moved up to main eventing or even gotten over well? Orton had already main evented several times, Batista, Edge, and Cena were already there, too. Rey? Jeff Hardy? The idea that the brand extension works to get more midcard talent over/give them the chance to get over is undermined by the fact that it hasn't actually worked in five years. I'm not saying don't give your midcard guys equal time; I'm saying don't restrict the exposure of your major talent to try to make something work that hasn't worked for over half a decade. Those guys you mentioned who benefitted from the brand extension didn't get over bc of it; THEY WERE ALREADY OVER BC THEY WERE STARS IN ECW AND WCW. Edge, Christian, and Kane were already over and Test never got over (Test ALWAYS sucked). RVD and Booker T weren't midcarders; WWE put them on the midcard, but the fans knew them both as top guys. You don't have to fight for the title to be a main eventer; you have to be a major draw. A lot of the guys you mentioned were huge draws before they even came to the WWE. Who NEW blew up bc of the brand extension?
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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 8th, '11, 19:35

badnewzxl wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
badnewzxl wrote:
While nowadays WWE doesn't have such a clogging of names at the top (only Cena, Orton, Christian, Punk, Del Rio, Rey, Sheamus, Big Show), they have a TON of midcarders who can break out if given the airtime and good booking:
Ziggler (who already proved this last year)
Miz (same as Ziggler, but to a lesser extent)
Dragon
Kofi
JoMo
Bourne
Cody Rhodes
Barrett
And they have Tyler Black, Jon Moxley, and Husky Harris all sitting in developmental.

A brand split makes it easier for these guys to get over by giving them the needed TV time.
1) the fact that they don't have that clogging you speak of is why they need to end the brand extension; they need to have most of those top stars on both shows so ppl will watch both shows. They don't have to show you the same midcarders on both shows; they can still mix them up, but the fact that you're not sure if they'll be on RAW or SD! gives you a reason to check out both shows, just in case your fav guys are there. If you KNOW no one you like is gonna be on SD! bc you don't like the roster, there's no chance you're gonna check it out; but if you love Punk or Morrison or Ziggler, and there's a possibility they're gonna be on both shows, you'll most likely check both shows out. Am I right?

2) You seem to have some foresight I can't understand, so please answer this for me: Since 2006 (when WWE stopped having the clog of top talent) what midcarders have moved up to main eventing or even gotten over well? Orton had already main evented several times, Batista, Edge, and Cena were already there, too. Rey? Jeff Hardy? The idea that the brand extension works to get more midcard talent over/give them the chance to get over is undermined by the fact that it hasn't actually worked in five years. I'm not saying don't give your midcard guys equal time; I'm saying don't restrict the exposure of your major talent to try to make something work that hasn't worked for over half a decade. Those guys you mentioned who benefitted from the brand extension didn't get over bc of it; THEY WERE ALREADY OVER BC THEY WERE STARS IN ECW AND WCW. Edge, Christian, and Kane were already over and Test never got over (Test ALWAYS sucked). RVD and Booker T weren't midcarders; WWE put them on the midcard, but the fans knew them both as top guys. You don't have to fight for the title to be a main eventer; you have to be a major draw. A lot of the guys you mentioned were huge draws before they even came to the WWE. Who NEW blew up bc of the brand extension?
1. And if a guy you want to see doesn't show up, you are disappointed. Also, what are the odds that someone doesn't like anyone on one of the rosters?

2. Orton didn't become a main eventer until after 2006. His push to the top as a babyface in 2004 was a huge failure.
As for who else got there: Just Rey, Jeff, Punk and Bobby Lashley (was definitely on the verge of being there and obviously had the backstage support, but he left). But that isn't because of the brand extension. That was because of poor booking. Look at all of the guys who spent time as top midcarders in WWE from 2006-2010:
Matt Hardy
MVP
Mr. Anderson
Shelton Benjamin
Carlito
Drew McIntyre
Umaga
Kofi Kingston
Dolph Ziggler
Fit Finlay
Charlie Haas
John Morrison
Jack Swagger
Elijah Burke
Mike Knox
Brian Kendrick
Paul London
Jimmy Yang
William Regal
Luke Gallows

All of these guys are extremely talented wrestlers, but WWE never followed up on their pushes, and would take them off of TV for months at a time. Look at McIntyre now! He was kicking ass on SD last spring, but he has all but disappeared for the past year. Most of these guys were never given the chance to go anywhere because WWE could never figure out how to use them. Look at MVP! He did NOTHING after he turned face. Once they tried to move someone up the card, they never followed up on it. Look at Swagger. He was a World Champion, then went right back down to the midcard. The same thing happened with Morrison in 2009 and it is happening with Ziggler now. No one was allowed to break out from the pack because they all just kept trading wins and trading midcard titles back and forth.

It is no surprise that WWE wasn't very good during this period of time, and that is because WWE forgot how to book. The concept worked perfectly fine when WWE could actually book well. Just look at the early part of the brand extension. From 2002-2005 WWE turned Eddie, Edge, Christian, and JBL from midcarders into main eventers, had RVD and Booker T (and Kane, for a time) regain their former main event status, and built Cena, Lesnar, and Batista up from nothing into main eventers.

Test was great, and there was a time when he was on the verge of breaking out as a main eventer.
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badnewzxl
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Re: 2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by badnewzxl » Sep 9th, '11, 00:20

^ so, in sumation, NOBODY got over. Thanx
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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: RAW SuperShow

Post by Big Red Machine » Sep 9th, '11, 00:32

badnewzxl wrote:^ so, in sumation, NOBODY got over. Thanx
No. People got over. Very few people got main event pushes because WWE kept screwing up its booking.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
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