2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

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2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by cero2k » Jan 5th, '16, 09:13

i'm gonna straight up say it, I never like when WWE raids promotions, but this one is bothering me for some reason

I wasn't a fan of say WWE getting Del Rio or Sombra or Devitt or Generico, but ok, I see why, but this one with NJPW is bothering me. It's bothering me that WWE will blatantly rip off the Bullet Club to sell t-shirts, it bothers me that once again, WWE is re-hiring someone who they had already fired because they couldn't figure out what to do with him. it just bothers me that WWE has so much power.

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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 5th, '16, 10:17

It's annoying, but I was also getting annoyed the stagnation in New Japan, and this will force them to change things. I'm sad to see Nakamura go, but if anything, it most annoys me because I won't get to see AJ (and the others occasionally) in ROH.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by cero2k » Jan 5th, '16, 11:59

Big Red Machine wrote:It's annoying, but I was also getting annoyed the stagnation in New Japan, and this will force them to change things. I'm sad to see Nakamura go, but if anything, it most annoys me because I won't get to see AJ (and the others occasionally) in ROH.
it sucks that this is what needs to happen for both companies to get their shit together. WWE can't create wrestlers and NJPW can't move away from their formula. In perspective, i think I would had been ok (highly jealous, but ok) with Tanahashi going to WWE since he's the one that feels like there is nothing else for him to win and could move on, but just like Devitt, i feel like Nakamura still needed that one last run with the title, same with AJ in ROH
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by XIV » Jan 5th, '16, 15:39

NXT has been taking on a strong life of its own BUT they are creating very few of their own superstars...

WM33 Joe vs Styles main event anyone?

Haha, no I kid... they'll still be stuck around doing NXT stuff.

They should have pulled the trigger on getting AJ Styles 5 years ago at least, but didn't. They should have pulled the trigger and got Joe 5 years ago, but didn't. They need to turn AJ Styles around and out into the main roster pretty sharpish if they want to take advantage of what he has to offer.

But Triple H's grand start to NXT is starting to lose it's glimmer just a little bit. I thought that NXT was WWE making head way, but aside from a select few WWE creative are killing the NXT momentum dead, to the point where the 1990's talents of Chris Jericho, Kane, Big Show & The Dudley Boyz (sidenote: Tommy Dreamer & Rhyno) are getting TV time ahead of the younger talent, but they're not being used exclusively to put over newer guys as they should be doing at this stage or at least not often enough.

From 2004 to the end of his career, Mick Foley won less than 10 matches, because as he wrote in a book he "didn't need to win to get any bigger, the wins could only further the other guy". I want to see the Jerichos, Big Shows, Dudleyz etc now doing that.
The Dudleyz should be putting over all kinds of tag teams. Jericho could be a platform for the Kevin Owens or Neville's to go next level etc.

Too many older starting to clog up the filter and the younger guys aren't getting through, so these signings will most likely be fruitless and that's frustrating.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by cero2k » Jan 5th, '16, 17:11

XIV wrote:NXT has been taking on a strong life of its own BUT they are creating very few of their own superstars...
this is the key right here. I'm not gonna say they're not creating stars, but they're system is waaaay slow for home grown talent, they already developed Zayn, Neville, Owens, Sasha, Bayley, but their home grown guys like Corbin, Mojo, Ascension, Breeze, have all either taken like 4-5 yrs to debut and are still green as fuck. Meanwhile, they have set a standard to Hunter's vanity product that their developmental guys just can't keep.
XIV wrote: WM33 Joe vs Styles main event anyone?
if by WM33 they haven't realized what that match means, someone needs to take the creative team to the back shed and shoot
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 5th, '16, 17:30

cero2k wrote:
XIV wrote:NXT has been taking on a strong life of its own BUT they are creating very few of their own superstars...
this is the key right here. I'm not gonna say they're not creating stars, but they're system is waaaay slow for home grown talent, they already developed Zayn, Neville, Owens, Sasha, Bayley, but their home grown guys like Corbin, Mojo, Ascension, Breeze, have all either taken like 4-5 yrs to debut and are still green as fuck. Meanwhile, they have set a standard to Hunter's vanity product that their developmental guys just can't keep.
I'd give WWE some credit for Bayley and Sasha (although I didn't see much of either on the indies, to the point where I didn't even recognize either when I first saw them on NXT. As for the Ascension, Viktor is not home-grown either.

Breeze was very good years ago, even back in the FCW days. He could have been on the main roster as early as 2012 as vanilla babyface Mike Dalton. WWE just kept him down there for forever so they could think of something to do for him.

Charlotte is pretty damn good for her level of experience.
Roman debuted in 2010, so I'd say he's come along pretty well. Same for Big E., who started in December 2009.
Corbin has developed into a pretty respectable performer just two years in, IMO.
Raquel Diaz would be part of the Divas Revolution if she hadn't retired and she only debuted in 2011.
Alexa Bliss and Dana Brooke are both respectable for their level of experience.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by XIV » Jan 5th, '16, 18:13

I can't count Zayn or Owens as developed by WWE, both have huge experience already, just needed that "WWE way" obligatory few months.

Charlotte is incredible given her experience level, some of her selling can be a bit poor (girl really over sells a basic punch), but incredible none the less. And I love the twist on the figure 4 she uses.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by cero2k » Jan 5th, '16, 18:25

i think that the women are definitely on another world right now, it's not typical Diva development

but from those guys you mention Red, Breeze, Victor, Connor, Kruger, Dallas, home grown or not, had been in FCW for over 4 yrs and WWE still couldn't figure them out, i honestly believe they debuted them in a do or die mentality. Mojo, Corbin, Jordan, or English have been there for like 2 yrs now and are barely developing, meanwhile Owens already debuted, won titles in both divisions. Zayn could be in the same spot. Like i mentioned, i'm not saying they don't develop, but it's waay to slow for how fast NXT is moving, WWE is in a spot were they can't just rely on building guys, they need to bring them in already built while the others come out of the oven.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by XIV » Jan 5th, '16, 18:31

Oh it's very slow (for males). They are now going to start giving TV time to people no-one cares about (the new JOB Squad) when they could use it to start debuting one or two NXT guys a week, like the old days, where they'd stick someone in near the start of the show just to get a feeler.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 5th, '16, 18:37

cero2k wrote:i think that the women are definitely on another world right now, it's not typical Diva development

but from those guys you mention Red, Breeze, Victor, Connor, Kruger, Dallas, home grown or not, had been in FCW for over 4 yrs and WWE still couldn't figure them out, i honestly believe they debuted them in a do or die mentality. Mojo, Corbin, Jordan, or English have been there for like 2 yrs now and are barely developing, meanwhile Owens already debuted, won titles in both divisions. Zayn could be in the same spot. Like i mentioned, i'm not saying they don't develop, but it's waay to slow for how fast NXT is moving, WWE is in a spot were they can't just rely on building guys, they need to bring them in already built while the others come out of the oven.
How fast are you expecting people to develop to the point that they can be on the main roster (or at least an NXT main eventer)?
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 5th, '16, 18:50

XIV wrote:Oh it's very slow (for males).
I think that's because most of the male slots on the show are already taken... and that's without taking Zayn and Itami into account.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by XIV » Jan 5th, '16, 18:52

Big Red Machine wrote:
XIV wrote:Oh it's very slow (for males).
I think that's because most of the male slots on the show are already taken... and that's without taking Zayn and Itami into account.
That's a fair point, and there's always going to be a pecking order, but I don't know, I just feel that with a decline in ratings going on and the wrestling industry going through a lull, WWE just could be doing more.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by cero2k » Jan 5th, '16, 18:53

Big Red Machine wrote: How fast are you expecting people to develop to the point that they can be on the main roster (or at least an NXT main eventer)?
that definitely depends on the guy, to me Gable is ready for instance. the problem is that NXT mostly relies on guys they take from other promotions and those same guys move on quite fast, an as soon as they do, the home grown guys are still not ready for the main event, and so WWE needs to go raid once again. I don't expect them to build wrestler fast, but they're racing against the growth that NXT as a show has.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by NWK2000 » Jan 7th, '16, 11:41

Nakamura has me excited, they could do some unique things with a "Japanese Rocker" gimmick. Gallows and Anderson could have a DOA gimmick or something. Even if they don't want to put Gallows and Anderson together, they could do some unique things with Anderson, not too hype on singles run Gallows. Now that I think about it, Gallows could work as a bodyguard for Breeze, HBK and Diesel style

AJ Styles is the one I'm scratching my head What could he possibly offer on the main roster, or in NXT, other than a Joe-esque "veteran gimmick". Make him a trainer so he can spend some time with his family

With all that said, I don't get the "reform the Bullet Club" crowd. The whole schtick of the Bullet Club is that they're American style heels in Japan. If you're doing that stuff in the US, especially in WWE, you're just a generic heel faction.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by cero2k » Jan 7th, '16, 11:57

NWK2000 wrote:Nakamura has me excited, they could do some unique things with a "Japanese Rocker" gimmick. Gallows and Anderson could have a DOA gimmick or something. Even if they don't want to put Gallows and Anderson together, they could do some unique things with Anderson, not too hype on singles run Gallows. Now that I think about it, Gallows could work as a bodyguard for Breeze, HBK and Diesel style

AJ Styles is the one I'm scratching my head What could he possibly offer on the main roster, or in NXT, other than a Joe-esque "veteran gimmick". Make him a trainer so he can spend some time with his family

With all that said, I don't get the "reform the Bullet Club" crowd. The whole schtick of the Bullet Club is that they're American style heels in Japan. If you're doing that stuff in the US, especially in WWE, you're just a generic heel faction.
I don't think WWE cares about recreating the Bullet Club, they just want another generic stable with a catchy name so they can sell 7 different t-shirt designs
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 7th, '16, 13:34

NWK2000 wrote: With all that said, I don't get the "reform the Bullet Club" crowd. The whole schtick of the Bullet Club is that they're American style heels in Japan. If you're doing that stuff in the US, especially in WWE, you're just a generic heel faction.
Because it will get over. It might just be a generic blueprint for a stable, but then the guys in it are good and come off as stars (especially the leader), then it will work.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by XIV » Jan 7th, '16, 16:37

Big Red Machine wrote:
NWK2000 wrote: With all that said, I don't get the "reform the Bullet Club" crowd. The whole schtick of the Bullet Club is that they're American style heels in Japan. If you're doing that stuff in the US, especially in WWE, you're just a generic heel faction.
Because it will get over. It might just be a generic blueprint for a stable, but then the guys in it are good and come off as stars (especially the leader), then it will work.
Fact is, WWE have mentioned them AND The Bullet Club on their website which would mean that (in the first instance at least) they're coming in as a stable and let's face it, they're a friggin' decent stable.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 7th, '16, 17:40

XIV wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote:
NWK2000 wrote: With all that said, I don't get the "reform the Bullet Club" crowd. The whole schtick of the Bullet Club is that they're American style heels in Japan. If you're doing that stuff in the US, especially in WWE, you're just a generic heel faction.
Because it will get over. It might just be a generic blueprint for a stable, but then the guys in it are good and come off as stars (especially the leader), then it will work.
Fact is, WWE have mentioned them AND The Bullet Club on their website which would mean that (in the first instance at least) they're coming in as a stable and let's face it, they're a friggin' decent stable.
The only issue I can see is that it would be tantamount to them admitting that they were dicks and ripped off the Bullet Club for their "Balor Club" shirts.
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Re: 2 Cents: How you feeling about the latest WWE Raid?

Post by XIV » Jan 7th, '16, 17:46

Big Red Machine wrote:
XIV wrote:
Big Red Machine wrote: Because it will get over. It might just be a generic blueprint for a stable, but then the guys in it are good and come off as stars (especially the leader), then it will work.
Fact is, WWE have mentioned them AND The Bullet Club on their website which would mean that (in the first instance at least) they're coming in as a stable and let's face it, they're a friggin' decent stable.
The only issue I can see is that it would be tantamount to them admitting that they were dicks and ripped off the Bullet Club for their "Balor Club" shirts.
Or (as I suspect) the T-shirts will quietly disappear and nothing more will be said of the "Balor Club".
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