2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

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NWK2000
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2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by NWK2000 » Feb 17th, '21, 18:00

I really like the idea of the Nightmare Family in concept, because they're basically wrestling answer to an MMA gym, a bunch of dudes bonded by the teaching of one coach and the fact that a win improves the status of everyone in the training camp, I just wish we saw that. I wish we saw the Nightmare Family training together, and the family bonds that come with all of them winning.
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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 17th, '21, 18:39

You're not wrong that they have a severe "show, don't tell" problem with this, but I think I could find your theory of what they are more palatable if it was just the family members, Arn, Q.T., and trainees. Having guys like Gunn Club as members works against the idea you're presenting.
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by cero2k » Feb 17th, '21, 22:32

NWK2000 wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 18:00 I really like the idea of the Nightmare Family in concept, because they're basically wrestling answer to an MMA gym, a bunch of dudes bonded by the teaching of one coach and the fact that a win improves the status of everyone in the training camp, I just wish we saw that. I wish we saw the Nightmare Family training together, and the family bonds that come with all of them winning.
ib4 everyone complains that they need to show it on dynamite to matter, but there are Nightmare Family Showcases

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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 18th, '21, 00:07

cero2k wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 22:32
NWK2000 wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 18:00 I really like the idea of the Nightmare Family in concept, because they're basically wrestling answer to an MMA gym, a bunch of dudes bonded by the teaching of one coach and the fact that a win improves the status of everyone in the training camp, I just wish we saw that. I wish we saw the Nightmare Family training together, and the family bonds that come with all of them winning.
ib4 everyone complains that they need to show it on dynamite to matter, but there are Nightmare Family Showcases

Ah. A thing no one will no about if they don't tell us about it on Dynamite.
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by XIV » Feb 18th, '21, 00:31

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 00:07
cero2k wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 22:32
NWK2000 wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 18:00 I really like the idea of the Nightmare Family in concept, because they're basically wrestling answer to an MMA gym, a bunch of dudes bonded by the teaching of one coach and the fact that a win improves the status of everyone in the training camp, I just wish we saw that. I wish we saw the Nightmare Family training together, and the family bonds that come with all of them winning.
ib4 everyone complains that they need to show it on dynamite to matter, but there are Nightmare Family Showcases

Ah. A thing no one will no about if they don't tell us about it on Dynamite.
Continually a huge problem with AEW. Not all of us want to go through to internet to find out these things. Drop 4/5 minutes off a Joey Janela match and showcase this, this builds more characters than watching 4/5 extra minutes of a 14/15 minute opening match.
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by cero2k » Feb 18th, '21, 08:50

see, i knew everyone would complain.

The things that happen outside of Dynamite are extra depth for those that care, you don't need them, just wait for Dynamite to build those guys slowly and on their own way. Ya'll watching Justice League, while other people are watching the Snyder Cut with Director's commentary track on.
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 18th, '21, 10:48

cero2k wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 08:50 see, i knew everyone would complain.

The things that happen outside of Dynamite are extra depth for those that care, you don't need them, just wait for Dynamite to build those guys slowly and on their own way.

Except that, as the Lee Johnson thing last week showed, they don't do that. They threw Johnson on TV and gave him this win and treated it like a big moment and the end of a journey, except that they hadn't done anything to let the majority of their audience know that the journey had even been taking place until it was over.
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by cero2k » Feb 18th, '21, 11:07

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 10:48


Except that, as the Lee Johnson thing last week showed, they don't do that. They threw Johnson on TV and gave him this win and treated it like a big moment and the end of a journey, except that they hadn't done anything to let the majority of their audience know that the journey had even been taking place until it was over.
Maybe that'll will let the 'majority of the audience' know there's this other show called DARK, and if you wanna know about Lee, maybe you should watch DARK.
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by XIV » Feb 18th, '21, 13:40

cero2k wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 11:07
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 10:48


Except that, as the Lee Johnson thing last week showed, they don't do that. They threw Johnson on TV and gave him this win and treated it like a big moment and the end of a journey, except that they hadn't done anything to let the majority of their audience know that the journey had even been taking place until it was over.
Maybe that'll will let the 'majority of the audience' know there's this other show called DARK, and if you wanna know about Lee, maybe you should watch DARK.
And if they advertised better about Dark and said things like “if you want to see more Lee Johnson, he’s a regular on AEW Dark” but they don’t do it.

If I watch a TV show, show me on that TV show everything I need to know about the characters in your TV Show, don’t just assume I’m googling everyone who appears.

Give me some videos or interviews.

Stop with the thousand kidnappings a week, and give me useful content to get people over!
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 18th, '21, 15:19

cero2k wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 11:07
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 10:48


Except that, as the Lee Johnson thing last week showed, they don't do that. They threw Johnson on TV and gave him this win and treated it like a big moment and the end of a journey, except that they hadn't done anything to let the majority of their audience know that the journey had even been taking place until it was over.
Maybe that'll will let the 'majority of the audience' know there's this other show called DARK, and if you wanna know about Lee, maybe you should watch DARK.
I'm not going to say that that's not a fair request of AEW to make, but I will say that I don't think it's a wise one for the following reasons:

1. Obviously, people only have so much time in their weeks.
2. Even a wrestling fans is going to get annoyed if you ask them to sit through a show that is two hours of mostly squashes in the hopes of their being some storyline-relevant material on there
3. Having more content that you require people to watch to keep up is a barrier to entry.

Dark has a useful place in AEW's ecosystem. It lets AEW get fan reactions to new talents while also serving as a place to buff people's records in preparation for a title shot. What AEW needs to learn how to do is integrate that with what is presented on Dynamite. For a situation like Lee Johnson, the right way to do it would have been as follows:

1. Create a video package about the guy that airs on Dynamite where you tell us that he's an up-and-comer who comes really close but just can't ever seem to pull out the win. You show us highlights of him doing cool things interspersed with footage of him training and him telling us his story, and also footage of his coaches talking about how he's so good, but just can't seem to get that win, and you include some footage of his losses.
2. Put him on Dynamite and have him lose a few times (let's say three times spread out over the course of two months), and each time he's on, you have the commentators talk about how well he did on Dark but came up short, and before each match he cuts a promo talking about how hard he's trying to win and how much he wants to validate his coaches' faith in him, etc.
3. Then you put him in a match on Dark against a bottom of the midcard-level heel (Shawn Spears is the name that immediately comes to mind- especially here because Spears is a vet who can help carry the kid if he needs it) and you have them go twenty minutes and give him lots of nearfalls but have Spears pull it out in the end. Spears will be a dick, but after the match, Cody and Dustin come out give Johnson a big ovation.
4. Then, on Dynamite, you air a video package of #3.
5. Then you put him on Dynamite against a respected veteran babyface but who is in an equivalent position to Spears (Christopher Daniels or Kazarian or Colt Cabana seem ideal for this) and they go ten to twelve minutes and gives him some good nearfalls but he loses via roll-up, and the veteran babyfaces puts him on the mic afterwards.
6. Meanwhile, you do an angle where Cody or Dustin or even Q.T. hand-pick Johnson to be their tag partner and he gets pinned (this seems like a spot where someone like Top Flight would get the win).
7. The next week Johnson loses on Dark and is a little dejected, but Cody comes out and handpicks him to be his partner.
8. Then, on Dynamite, you show a video of Cody picking Johnson to be his partner and have Johnson cut a promo once again talking about how badly he wants to win and what it means to him that Cody has shown this faith in him, etc.... and THEN you give him the win.

Not all of these steps after #4 are completely necessary, but do you see my point about how you have the story ping back and forth between Dynamite and Dark and make sure that all of the important notes from Dark are either shown on Dynamite in video form and how it makes sure that we get a chance to know Johnson before ending his journey?


And that's a more involved situation. There are plenty of simpler things they should be doing but aren't. For example, if someone is winning a bunch on Dark, give them a two-minute squash on Dynamite in the midst of that (or even a longer win over a real opponent) so that people who only watch your main show don't feel caught off guard when someone is announced as being in the top ten or otherwise shows up on Dynamite with some outrageous record and we had no idea he had been winning. Numbers are just numbers. To make someone really feel like a winner, you need to drive the point home by showing people, and you need to do it over a stretch of time so that when the person shows up on Dynamite in a big spot, that person feels like they belong in that spot (rather than just having some nice numbers by their name).
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by NWK2000 » Feb 18th, '21, 19:00

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 00:07
cero2k wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 22:32
NWK2000 wrote: Feb 17th, '21, 18:00 I really like the idea of the Nightmare Family in concept, because they're basically wrestling answer to an MMA gym, a bunch of dudes bonded by the teaching of one coach and the fact that a win improves the status of everyone in the training camp, I just wish we saw that. I wish we saw the Nightmare Family training together, and the family bonds that come with all of them winning.
ib4 everyone complains that they need to show it on dynamite to matter, but there are Nightmare Family Showcases

Ah. A thing no one will no about if they don't tell us about it on Dynamite.
I agree. I'm all for kayfabe backstage content on Youtube ( I think being able to film angles and upload it to Youtube is a yet untapped way to make wrestling feel like a living breathing world) but they don't plug it on the weekly TV at all (or even better yet, do the Crockett thing where they'd show you half of an angle and show the other half of the video at the end as a hook)
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by KILLdozer » Feb 19th, '21, 11:40

I don't even watch this shit but can I just say, through pure word of mouth, I'm one of the people who feels like..."just enough of Cody Rhodes already..."?
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Big Red Machine
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 19th, '21, 13:14

NWK2000 wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 19:00 (or even better yet, do the Crockett thing where they'd show you half of an angle and show the other half of the video at the end as a hook)
That Crockett thing used to annoy the f*ck out of people. Granted, part of that was David Crockett's deliver of "Tony... we're out of tiiiiiime," but I don't think it's something that will work in the modern age. When people are watching a show, they don't want a teaser of your content. They want the actual content.
That also requires them to either 1) stop watching Dynamite to go to YouTube, or 2) remember to go to YouTube after the show ends, which most probably won't do (especially if the rest of your show has given them other things to think/be excited about.
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by XIV » Feb 19th, '21, 14:00

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 19th, '21, 13:14
NWK2000 wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 19:00 (or even better yet, do the Crockett thing where they'd show you half of an angle and show the other half of the video at the end as a hook)
That Crockett thing used to annoy the f*ck out of people. Granted, part of that was David Crockett's deliver of "Tony... we're out of tiiiiiime," but I don't think it's something that will work in the modern age. When people are watching a show, they don't want a teaser of your content. They want the actual content.
That also requires them to either 1) stop watching Dynamite to go to YouTube, or 2) remember to go to YouTube after the show ends, which most probably won't do (especially if the rest of your show has given them other things to think/be excited about.
This.

I’ve come to the show to get the show, you can tease me for a PPV, you can tease me for next week’s version of the show I’m already watching.
But don’t do a half tease or expect me to find my own tease.
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NWK2000
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Re: 2 Cents: The Nightmare Family

Post by NWK2000 » Feb 22nd, '21, 08:37

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 19th, '21, 13:14
NWK2000 wrote: Feb 18th, '21, 19:00 (or even better yet, do the Crockett thing where they'd show you half of an angle and show the other half of the video at the end as a hook)
That Crockett thing used to annoy the f*ck out of people. Granted, part of that was David Crockett's deliver of "Tony... we're out of tiiiiiime," but I don't think it's something that will work in the modern age. When people are watching a show, they don't want a teaser of your content. They want the actual content.
That also requires them to either 1) stop watching Dynamite to go to YouTube, or 2) remember to go to YouTube after the show ends, which most probably won't do (especially if the rest of your show has given them other things to think/be excited about.
They would show the video on an episode of Dynamite, sorry if I didn't make that clear. But what I'm saying is "show Youtube stuff on Dynamite occassionally"
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