WWE Production values are f*cked.

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XIV
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WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by XIV » Feb 16th, '19, 05:37

So I just finished listening to Cornette’s latest podcast where he was forced to sit through RAW and he decided he’s make a whole show about it. I suggest listening to it, the guy isn’t wrong once. But he raised various valid points and WWE production values tying in to why new viewers cannot follow the program. Here are some of the points he covered and those that I remembered...

There were no male segments for at least the first 30 minutes. (Triple H doesn’t count as he was partaking in a female angle). It’s not necessarily a sexist thing, but he was talking about ensuring it’s consistently mixed between the guys and girls to keep both sides of your audience.

He then spoke about a reoccurring theme throughout where entrances didn’t get finished, we do not see an entrance start and finish anymore because Vince and his team thinks the audience can’t handle 1m of music time so we’re gonna switch so he interrupts it with packages and promos so it’s jumping about all over the place.

How many fucking times was Elias introduced (3 times to be precise) while they kept cutting back for various things before Lucha House Party interrupted and did some hokey shit. BUT only Kalisto was named at any one point. Casual viewers didn’t get the name of the other two Luchas.

It took 32 on screen minutes before we got a shot of the announcers, up to this point they were just voices and they hadn’t introduced anything including themselves before this point.

He called out the WWE for having Becky talking in hushed tones in a secretive manner to an “unidentified accented male” 5 feet from a camera we’re supposed to believe Becky doesn’t see or isn’t concerned about. It’s bullshit and looks stupid which I agreed on and at no point did we get Finn Balor’s name (no use to the casual or first time viewer again).

He got to The Revival match and he praised the Entrance and look of Gable and Rose but was disappointed that despite having the best entrances of most of the roster with the lights and robes, they cut away again and didn’t come back until The Revival were half way to the ring. This is your Tag Team Championship March and you’ve cut the entrances and introductions down. The match itself was good (albeit they came back from a commercial break and it went straight into the hot tag which was bad production). The Revival win which is great. The one enjoyable moment from the show (aside from elias’s short song).

By the time it gets to Becky for the 5th or 6th segment she’s in for the night Cornette nails it on the head. I genuinely didn’t give a shit, because you knew it being the last moment of the show is going to be some hokey shit “hook” instead of the closing moment of your show being that you’ve crowned new Tag Team Champions in the main event of the show, which is how it should have been.

Anyway, that’s a few points, it’s a good listen and I suggest you go to Spotify or wherever and find the latest podcast because it is Cornette at his best logically booking the Raw show and how it should be presented on TV instead of the bounce around “don’t know where the fuck you are” Style they have now.

I’m not Jim Cornette, and that, is also my opinion.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Bob-O » Feb 16th, '19, 11:35

I do enjoy Jim's podcasts. I don't share his opinion on a lot of things, he is slipping behind the times, I'll listen to everything he has to say about anything.

That said...

I don't think the gender thing applies anymore. It's not 30 minutes of Stacy Kiebler trying to secure her spot in a bra and panties match, it's the company's top angle moving into the biggest show of the year. The fact that it's women isn't going to cause anyone to tune out... it's the most interesting thing they're doing, I say running with that beats any alternative. I'd say more people tuned out over the 40 minute men's schmaz down the middle. With no Brock, you lead with Becky right now. It's just playing what's in your hand.

The entrance thing is absurd, he's right about that. For a lot of these guys, they're really not given much else to help them connect with the audience. They've got THREE HOURS, but no time to show the entrances?

I never cared for it, but I understood that Raw wasn't designed to be presented as a sporting event - it's "an episode", I get that. But, I don't understand anymore. ~I think~ they're tailoring it to a live viewing audience that, between channel flipping and pissing around on their phones, is only half watching anyway. How do you maintain an audience that doesn't even have a 5 minute attention span, much less a 3 hour one? I think what we're seeing now is WWE's attempt to figure that out.

They know the live broadcast is going to mostly on as background noise, which if you think about it, explains a lot of the crap their doing. 30 minutes of one thing to start, till people start losing interest. Then, short spurts of information while staying on track for the night, switching gears constantly to something different than what was 30 seconds ago... the cuts to backstage, the inset promos, back to the match, recap of what just happened, recap of what happened an hour ago, recap of what happened two weeks ago... but it's constantly changing to cater to the YouTube generation of 30 second cat videos and Fortnite dancing... until the final 30 minutes designed to ease the viewer out. We don't NEED to know the names of the other Luchadores because they're not important and nobody is paying attention anyway.

It sucks.

The show is now designed to be cut up into little clips and posted on YouTube/Facebook/WWE Network/Whatever because that's how most of us are watching it now anyway. This "live broadcast" thing I think is a huge formality for them, and they treat it as such.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 16th, '19, 19:27

(EDIT: I later realized that by "production values" you meant "the values which they apply to the production of their show" rather than "the money they spend on the systems of said production," but I decided to leave this in here because it it works well as an intro.)


To start off by picking a nit,. these are not "production values." Production values are stuff like lighting and audio quality, or the look of the stage area/arena. What these are are production (and booking) choices, which actually gives me even less sympathy for WWE. I get that production values are very important to some people, but I'm more focused on the quality of the art rather than framing, and so I am okay with excusing production values (especially when a company doesn't have the money). I will not, however, excuse poor production choices.





I fully agree about the entrances and cutting away from matches for something else (and this is something that a lot of other commentators- Bryan Alvarez and Wade Keller immediately come to mind- have harped on both this week and many times in the past). Ditto for the Elias thing, which in my mind just makes it look like the company kayfabe f*cked up by sending him out there too early. It was another forced and failed WWE attempt at humor.

As for the "no male segments in the first half hour" thing, I don't think Jim is wrong in theory (and I'd throw the tag division in there as a third entity to try to at least have appear in the first forty-five minutes). In this particular case, I think WWE's thought process went as follows: We want the first match to be something that has meaning (or at least comes off as exciting when we tell you it's going to happen next), but also want to save the bigger stars and/or title matches for the crossover segments," and thus the only match they had that fit was the match to determine who enters the Elimination Chamber first.
Of course, the reason they really only had one choice for that spot was their own failure to build other storylines up in an effective manner from week to week.

As for the whole "pretend the camera isn't there" bit... while I don't like it, WWE has been doing it for so long that I take it as part and parcel of their style. As Bob-O said, it's a "you're watching an episode of a TV show" taped in front of a live audience thing. There are other promotions that use this style as well, and manage to tell stories with it in a non-clumsy way (wXw, CHIKARA). I'd prefer for promotions to come up with a logical reason for the camera to be there (both for my own presentational preferences and because I think that imposing restrictions upon yourself that force you to think encourages better thinking/storytelling habits and thus leads to better storytelling), but at long as the promotion is consistent with it, I'm willing to go along with it (meaning don't have certain backstage segments beamed onto the TitanTron because your story requires someone currently in the ring to see it).
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by XIV » Feb 17th, '19, 00:22

Okay, on the no male segments part. That does go for Tag Team division too. Because the championships were defended that night! So exhibit something from your tag division, get people excited about that as that is technically your wrestling main event that evening. (Albeit they should have closed the show on new tag champions rather than the other shit that people are frustrated with and hate the direction of.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 17th, '19, 09:25

XIV wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 00:22 Okay, on the no male segments part. That does go for Tag Team division too. Because the championships were defended that night! So exhibit something from your tag division, get people excited about that as that is technically your wrestling main event that evening. (Albeit they should have closed the show on new tag champions rather than the other shit that people are frustrated with and hate the direction of.
From a story structure POV, the Becky thing was the right angle to end the show on because that's what they built up all night, because it's a real cliffhanger for SD, and because it allows them to push off the Vince vs. Hunter & Steph confrontation that should come from it, plus it allows us to actually go a week without Becky violating a suspension and causing havoc (the last two of which really should have happened on the air after something like that).

But your point ties into what was being talked about in the other thread. They clearly know that sending the crowd home happy is important, or else they wouldn't do dark segments after the show, so if you want the Becky thing to be the main event segment, you really should write it with an ending that doesn't piss people off. And their goal here seems to be to work people into getting shoot pissed off at the company only to be able to give them what they want in the end (rather than trying to work people into getting pissed off at the characters), and I don't think that's a worthwhile strategy because of the number of viewers you risk just giving up entirely (and that assumes that people will be satisfied with Becky going over Ronda in a three-way rather than still being unhappy that it wasn't a singles match, which I don't think will be the case for a sizable number of people).

And, of course, they wouldn't give the tag titles a main event spot because they don't think the belts and teams are over enough... but then it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, as they'll never become that level of star if you don't make an effort to push them as such. It's pretty telling that when they found out they booked the six-man tag with the "big stars" to have a pointless restart (and one that open up a big can of worms about refereeing) instead of just giving an extra fifteen minutes to the tag title match.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by KILLdozer » Feb 17th, '19, 13:44

Bob-O wrote: Feb 16th, '19, 11:35 I do enjoy Jim's podcasts. I don't share his opinion on a lot of things, he is slipping behind the times, I'll listen to everything he has to say about anything.

That said...

I don't think the gender thing applies anymore. It's not 30 minutes of Stacy Kiebler trying to secure her spot in a bra and panties match, it's the company's top angle moving into the biggest show of the year. The fact that it's women isn't going to cause anyone to tune out... it's the most interesting thing they're doing, I say running with that beats any alternative. I'd say more people tuned out over the 40 minute men's schmaz down the middle. With no Brock, you lead with Becky right now. It's just playing what's in your hand.

The entrance thing is absurd, he's right about that. For a lot of these guys, they're really not given much else to help them connect with the audience. They've got THREE HOURS, but no time to show the entrances?

I never cared for it, but I understood that Raw wasn't designed to be presented as a sporting event - it's "an episode", I get that. But, I don't understand anymore. ~I think~ they're tailoring it to a live viewing audience that, between channel flipping and pissing around on their phones, is only half watching anyway. How do you maintain an audience that doesn't even have a 5 minute attention span, much less a 3 hour one? I think what we're seeing now is WWE's attempt to figure that out.

They know the live broadcast is going to mostly on as background noise, which if you think about it, explains a lot of the crap their doing. 30 minutes of one thing to start, till people start losing interest. Then, short spurts of information while staying on track for the night, switching gears constantly to something different than what was 30 seconds ago... the cuts to backstage, the inset promos, back to the match, recap of what just happened, recap of what happened an hour ago, recap of what happened two weeks ago... but it's constantly changing to cater to the YouTube generation of 30 second cat videos and Fortnite dancing... until the final 30 minutes designed to ease the viewer out. We don't NEED to know the names of the other Luchadores because they're not important and nobody is paying attention anyway.

It sucks.

The show is now designed to be cut up into little clips and posted on YouTube/Facebook/WWE Network/Whatever because that's how most of us are watching it now anyway. This "live broadcast" thing I think is a huge formality for them, and they treat it as such.
Yeah, I've said it before that things like this are the reason why they just constantly so much repeat shit, over and over again. Things like Strowman and Corbin, Balor and Corbin even further back, there's no real progression at all in any way. Just "putting on bits here and there."

It's almost like they just treat certain things like it's starting over every single week just for casual viewers.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Bob-O » Feb 17th, '19, 18:35

KILLdozer wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 13:44 It's almost like they just treat certain things like it's starting over every single week just for casual viewers.
It might belong in the "I Might Be The Only One In The World That Thinks This..." thread, but say what you will about WCW's booking decisions, I REALLY miss Nitro. The formula for the program just worked. They definitely got their "entertainment" in, but from start to finish it felt like you were watching a live sporting event. It usually had a set card, it moved right along from bottom to top, and at the end of it you just felt satisfied - maybe not with WHAT happened, but that tonight's show was over and reason to look forward to next week. It never felt like a grind and I was never just waiting for it to be over... which is why I gave up on Raw. Even the Hulu abbreviated version, I found myself just waiting for it to be over so I could move on with my life.

You know... like a live sporting event. Seriously, they put the little icon on the screen, but Raw doesn't even feel live to me when I try to watch it. I feel like it'd be a better product if it wasn't and they had a chance to edit it.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by XIV » Feb 17th, '19, 23:08

Bob-O wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 18:35
KILLdozer wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 13:44 It's almost like they just treat certain things like it's starting over every single week just for casual viewers.
It might belong in the "I Might Be The Only One In The World That Thinks This..." thread, but say what you will about WCW's booking decisions, I REALLY miss Nitro. The formula for the program just worked. They definitely got their "entertainment" in, but from start to finish it felt like you were watching a live sporting event. It usually had a set card, it moved right along from bottom to top, and at the end of it you just felt satisfied - maybe not with WHAT happened, but that tonight's show was over and reason to look forward to next week. It never felt like a grind and I was never just waiting for it to be over... which is why I gave up on Raw. Even the Hulu abbreviated version, I found myself just waiting for it to be over so I could move on with my life.

You know... like a live sporting event. Seriously, they put the little icon on the screen, but Raw doesn't even feel live to me when I try to watch it. I feel like it'd be a better product if it wasn't and they had a chance to edit it.
I assume you mean early nitro and not post 2000 Nitro which was constantly a clusterfuck.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 18th, '19, 00:33

Bob-O wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 18:35
KILLdozer wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 13:44 It's almost like they just treat certain things like it's starting over every single week just for casual viewers.
It might belong in the "I Might Be The Only One In The World That Thinks This..." thread, but say what you will about WCW's booking decisions, I REALLY miss Nitro. The formula for the program just worked. They definitely got their "entertainment" in, but from start to finish it felt like you were watching a live sporting event. It usually had a set card, it moved right along from bottom to top, and at the end of it you just felt satisfied - maybe not with WHAT happened, but that tonight's show was over and reason to look forward to next week. It never felt like a grind and I was never just waiting for it to be over... which is why I gave up on Raw. Even the Hulu abbreviated version, I found myself just waiting for it to be over so I could move on with my life.

You know... like a live sporting event. Seriously, they put the little icon on the screen, but Raw doesn't even feel live to me when I try to watch it. I feel like it'd be a better product if it wasn't and they had a chance to edit it.
I think the major issue here is the announcing. Vince & Dunn don't want sports announcers; they want people "tell the stories," so even people like Joey Styles had to be "retrained" when they came in to WWE. Throw in WWE"s obsession with branding and corporate buzzwords, and it's hard to for it to feel like a sport (as immortalized in one of Vinny V's rants on the Divas' Revolution "Do you know when you don't hear anyone talking about 'the revolution of women in sports?' WHEN YOU'RE WATCHING WOMEN PLAY SPORTS!"). On Nitro, the announcers' first concern (other than maybe Zbyszko) felt like it was to call the action. In WWE, the announcers first goal always feels like it's to "get the story over" and I phrase it that way intentionally because of how fake it feels because of the over-scripted phrasing and constant use of buzzwords.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by KILLdozer » Feb 18th, '19, 01:44

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 00:33
Bob-O wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 18:35
KILLdozer wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 13:44 It's almost like they just treat certain things like it's starting over every single week just for casual viewers.
It might belong in the "I Might Be The Only One In The World That Thinks This..." thread, but say what you will about WCW's booking decisions, I REALLY miss Nitro. The formula for the program just worked. They definitely got their "entertainment" in, but from start to finish it felt like you were watching a live sporting event. It usually had a set card, it moved right along from bottom to top, and at the end of it you just felt satisfied - maybe not with WHAT happened, but that tonight's show was over and reason to look forward to next week. It never felt like a grind and I was never just waiting for it to be over... which is why I gave up on Raw. Even the Hulu abbreviated version, I found myself just waiting for it to be over so I could move on with my life.

You know... like a live sporting event. Seriously, they put the little icon on the screen, but Raw doesn't even feel live to me when I try to watch it. I feel like it'd be a better product if it wasn't and they had a chance to edit it.
I think the major issue here is the announcing. Vince & Dunn don't want sports announcers; they want people "tell the stories," so even people like Joey Styles had to be "retrained" when they came in to WWE. Throw in WWE"s obsession with branding and corporate buzzwords, and it's hard to for it to feel like a sport (as immortalized in one of Vinny V's rants on the Divas' Revolution "Do you know when you don't hear anyone talking about 'the revolution of women in sports?' WHEN YOU'RE WATCHING WOMEN PLAY SPORTS!"). On Nitro, the announcers' first concern (other than maybe Zbyszko) felt like it was to call the action. In WWE, the announcers first goal always feels like it's to "get the story over" and I phrase it that way intentionally because of how fake it feels because of the over-scripted phrasing and constant use of buzzwords.
Everything is cliche after cliche after cliche. "This is the new Daniel Bryan!" Then fit into every other 3-5 sentences.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Serujuunin » Feb 18th, '19, 21:34

KILLdozer wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 01:44
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 00:33
Bob-O wrote: Feb 17th, '19, 18:35
It might belong in the "I Might Be The Only One In The World That Thinks This..." thread, but say what you will about WCW's booking decisions, I REALLY miss Nitro. The formula for the program just worked. They definitely got their "entertainment" in, but from start to finish it felt like you were watching a live sporting event. It usually had a set card, it moved right along from bottom to top, and at the end of it you just felt satisfied - maybe not with WHAT happened, but that tonight's show was over and reason to look forward to next week. It never felt like a grind and I was never just waiting for it to be over... which is why I gave up on Raw. Even the Hulu abbreviated version, I found myself just waiting for it to be over so I could move on with my life.

You know... like a live sporting event. Seriously, they put the little icon on the screen, but Raw doesn't even feel live to me when I try to watch it. I feel like it'd be a better product if it wasn't and they had a chance to edit it.
I think the major issue here is the announcing. Vince & Dunn don't want sports announcers; they want people "tell the stories," so even people like Joey Styles had to be "retrained" when they came in to WWE. Throw in WWE"s obsession with branding and corporate buzzwords, and it's hard to for it to feel like a sport (as immortalized in one of Vinny V's rants on the Divas' Revolution "Do you know when you don't hear anyone talking about 'the revolution of women in sports?' WHEN YOU'RE WATCHING WOMEN PLAY SPORTS!"). On Nitro, the announcers' first concern (other than maybe Zbyszko) felt like it was to call the action. In WWE, the announcers first goal always feels like it's to "get the story over" and I phrase it that way intentionally because of how fake it feels because of the over-scripted phrasing and constant use of buzzwords.
Everything is cliche after cliche after cliche. "This is the new Daniel Bryan!" Then fit into every other 3-5 sentences.
Oh my gosh this drives me mental every show. The stupid nicknames and buzzwords and catchphrases that don't stick. They try to force all this garbage on us hoping we eat it up and they can put it on a shirt. Every time they call McIntyre "The Scottish Psychopath" it makes me want to throw up. Especially when they have gimmicks they don't use that were basically a license to print money. Like, when was the last time we saw the Demon? We didn't get it at the Rumble (though I heard that was because they wanted to protect the character? Who knows for sure), and we didn't get it at Elimination Chamber, which would have made sense. It's a super cool gimmick, people lose their minds for it, you can make any kind of merch you can imagine and people will devour it (myself included because I'm a goofy fangirl), and they just... don't.

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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by KILLdozer » Feb 18th, '19, 21:43

Serujuunin wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 21:34
KILLdozer wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 01:44
Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 00:33

I think the major issue here is the announcing. Vince & Dunn don't want sports announcers; they want people "tell the stories," so even people like Joey Styles had to be "retrained" when they came in to WWE. Throw in WWE"s obsession with branding and corporate buzzwords, and it's hard to for it to feel like a sport (as immortalized in one of Vinny V's rants on the Divas' Revolution "Do you know when you don't hear anyone talking about 'the revolution of women in sports?' WHEN YOU'RE WATCHING WOMEN PLAY SPORTS!"). On Nitro, the announcers' first concern (other than maybe Zbyszko) felt like it was to call the action. In WWE, the announcers first goal always feels like it's to "get the story over" and I phrase it that way intentionally because of how fake it feels because of the over-scripted phrasing and constant use of buzzwords.
Everything is cliche after cliche after cliche. "This is the new Daniel Bryan!" Then fit into every other 3-5 sentences.
Oh my gosh this drives me mental every show. The stupid nicknames and buzzwords and catchphrases that don't stick. They try to force all this garbage on us hoping we eat it up and they can put it on a shirt. Every time they call McIntyre "The Scottish Psychopath" it makes me want to throw up. Especially when they have gimmicks they don't use that were basically a license to print money. Like, when was the last time we saw the Demon? We didn't get it at the Rumble (though I heard that was because they wanted to protect the character? Who knows for sure), and we didn't get it at Elimination Chamber, which would have made sense. It's a super cool gimmick, people lose their minds for it, you can make any kind of merch you can imagine and people will devour it (myself included because I'm a goofy fangirl), and they just... don't.
Shit like that is why I just couldn't stand the gauntlet match. Entirely too much cliche garbage announcing over and over focusing one the same match. They literally couldn't handle it. Idk how y'all watch ppvs with that said.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Serujuunin » Feb 18th, '19, 22:15

KILLdozer wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 21:43
Serujuunin wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 21:34
KILLdozer wrote: Feb 18th, '19, 01:44

Everything is cliche after cliche after cliche. "This is the new Daniel Bryan!" Then fit into every other 3-5 sentences.
Oh my gosh this drives me mental every show. The stupid nicknames and buzzwords and catchphrases that don't stick. They try to force all this garbage on us hoping we eat it up and they can put it on a shirt. Every time they call McIntyre "The Scottish Psychopath" it makes me want to throw up. Especially when they have gimmicks they don't use that were basically a license to print money. Like, when was the last time we saw the Demon? We didn't get it at the Rumble (though I heard that was because they wanted to protect the character? Who knows for sure), and we didn't get it at Elimination Chamber, which would have made sense. It's a super cool gimmick, people lose their minds for it, you can make any kind of merch you can imagine and people will devour it (myself included because I'm a goofy fangirl), and they just... don't.
Shit like that is why I just couldn't stand the gauntlet match. Entirely too much cliche garbage announcing over and over focusing one the same match. They literally couldn't handle it. Idk how y'all watch ppvs with that said.
I usually have the ppv on in the background and I do something else. Then I stop and pay attention to what I’m interested in, but I still keep up enough with the story that I don’t get lost. And to be fair, when the wrestling is amazing I can tune out the corporate buzzwords and stuff, as long as the announcers aren’t outright arguing with each other.

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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Bob-O » Feb 19th, '19, 11:06

...and naming all the god. damn. finishers.

Dirty Deeds, and Claymore Kicks, and YES! Locks, and all that... just stop. Some moves need a name (Stunner, RKO, GTS...), but it doesn't work if EVERYONE does it. It's annoying.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by cero2k » Feb 19th, '19, 11:10

Bob-O wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:06 ...and naming all the god. damn. finishers.

Dirty Deeds, and Claymore Kicks, and YES! Locks, and all that... just stop. Some moves need a name (Stunner, RKO, GTS...), but it doesn't work if EVERYONE does it. It's annoying.
never read an article in WWE.com then, you'll get an aneurysm with all the nicknames they come up for every wrestler.
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Serujuunin » Feb 19th, '19, 11:16

Bob-O wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:06 ...and naming all the god. damn. finishers.

Dirty Deeds, and Claymore Kicks, and YES! Locks, and all that... just stop. Some moves need a name (Stunner, RKO, GTS...), but it doesn't work if EVERYONE does it. It's annoying.
This drives me mad too. So many of them have garbage names. I like the Claymore kick though, mostly because the claymore is a giant ass sword and also an explosive, so it conjures the right type of imagery for a move that’s supposed to be a signature finish.

With that, I think some guys need different finishers. I love Balor but I think he needs something other than what he’s got... They teased another one a bit in NXT but it never really caught on, and that’s sad. And Seth Rollins desperately needs a signature that’s his. How he’s been around so long and not found one that works is beyond me.

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KILLdozer
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by KILLdozer » Feb 19th, '19, 11:27

Serujuunin wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:16
Bob-O wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:06 ...and naming all the god. damn. finishers.

Dirty Deeds, and Claymore Kicks, and YES! Locks, and all that... just stop. Some moves need a name (Stunner, RKO, GTS...), but it doesn't work if EVERYONE does it. It's annoying.
This drives me mad too. So many of them have garbage names. I like the Claymore kick though, mostly because the claymore is a giant ass sword and also an explosive, so it conjures the right type of imagery for a move that’s supposed to be a signature finish.

With that, I think some guys need different finishers. I love Balor but I think he needs something other than what he’s got... They teased another one a bit in NXT but it never really caught on, and that’s sad. And Seth Rollins desperately needs a signature that’s his. How he’s been around so long and not found one that works is beyond me.
There's nothing wrong with the springboard knee Rollins uses.
When they come, they'll come at what you love.

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Big Red Machine
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 19th, '19, 12:24

cero2k wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:10
Bob-O wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:06 ...and naming all the god. damn. finishers.

Dirty Deeds, and Claymore Kicks, and YES! Locks, and all that... just stop. Some moves need a name (Stunner, RKO, GTS...), but it doesn't work if EVERYONE does it. It's annoying.
never read an article in WWE.com then, you'll get an aneurysm with all the nicknames they come up for every wrestler.
I remember one from a decade ago that really drove me nuts because their obsession with nicknames was so overwhelming that they were calling Rey "the Master of the 619" and Jeff Hardy "the Master of the Swanton" (and with Jeff that was in addition to stuff like Charismatic Enigma and "the Rainbow-Haired Warrior." The website writers must get paid extra per trademark symbol.
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Big Red Machine
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by Big Red Machine » Feb 19th, '19, 12:31

Serujuunin wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:16
Bob-O wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:06 ...and naming all the god. damn. finishers.

Dirty Deeds, and Claymore Kicks, and YES! Locks, and all that... just stop. Some moves need a name (Stunner, RKO, GTS...), but it doesn't work if EVERYONE does it. It's annoying.
This drives me mad too. So many of them have garbage names. I like the Claymore kick though, mostly because the claymore is a giant ass sword and also an explosive, so it conjures the right type of imagery for a move that’s supposed to be a signature finish.

With that, I think some guys need different finishers. I love Balor but I think he needs something other than what he’s got... They teased another one a bit in NXT but it never really caught on, and that’s sad. And Seth Rollins desperately needs a signature that’s his. How he’s been around so long and not found one that works is beyond me.
Move names don't bug me when they don't suck (and, being the nit-picker that I am, it should just be Claymore, not Claymore Kick. "Claymore Kick" sounds stupid because you don't kick people with a sword, and you don't need to tell us it's a kick because WE CAN SEE THAT!" Also, it's noun-noun, making the "kick" part irrelevant.

The names that bug me the most are some of the ones that sound completely goofy like the "Cheeky Nandos Kick" or "Pip Pip Cheerio" (not meaning to pick solely on Will Ospreay, but he's definitely the first guy that comes to mind). This seems to be a British thing more than anything else, though.

Rollins' Curb Stomp is pretty unique.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

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KILLdozer
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Re: WWE Production values are f*cked.

Post by KILLdozer » Feb 19th, '19, 12:33

Big Red Machine wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 12:31
Serujuunin wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:16
Bob-O wrote: Feb 19th, '19, 11:06 ...and naming all the god. damn. finishers.

Dirty Deeds, and Claymore Kicks, and YES! Locks, and all that... just stop. Some moves need a name (Stunner, RKO, GTS...), but it doesn't work if EVERYONE does it. It's annoying.
This drives me mad too. So many of them have garbage names. I like the Claymore kick though, mostly because the claymore is a giant ass sword and also an explosive, so it conjures the right type of imagery for a move that’s supposed to be a signature finish.

With that, I think some guys need different finishers. I love Balor but I think he needs something other than what he’s got... They teased another one a bit in NXT but it never really caught on, and that’s sad. And Seth Rollins desperately needs a signature that’s his. How he’s been around so long and not found one that works is beyond me.
Move names don't bug me when they don't suck (and, being the nit-picker that I am, it should just be Claymore, not Claymore Kick. "Claymore Kick" sounds stupid because you don't kick people with a sword, and you don't need to tell us it's a kick because WE CAN SEE THAT!" Also, it's noun-noun, making the "kick" part irrelevant.

The names that bug me the most are some of the ones that sound completely goofy like the "Cheeky Nandos Kick" or "Pip Pip Cheerio" (not meaning to pick solely on Will Ospreay, but he's definitely the first guy that comes to mind). This seems to be a British thing more than anything else, though.

Rollins' Curb Stomp is pretty unique.
YOU don't kick people with a sword...

Really though...I don't even think it needs a name...it's essentially just somewhat of a big booty/standard jumping kick...who cares what it's called?

Remember when like 3 guys used big boots and 3 other guys used chokeslams and no one cared what they were called?
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