Day-to-Day Quote Topic

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 10th, '21, 11:27

Big Red Machine wrote: Oct 10th, '21, 11:03 So he's decided to go for snowflakes from Dave instead of logic.
he decide to be a pro wrestler in this fake sport we call pro wrestling.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 16th, '21, 18:27

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 18th, '21, 23:02

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 20th, '21, 20:34

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 20th, '21, 23:14

cero2k wrote: Oct 20th, '21, 20:34
Bryan's not wrong... but did the person posting the clip actually listen to it before posting? Bryan's analogy (which I won't spoil) is MUCH funnier than what the poster describes.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 21st, '21, 11:06

so this happened today. NJPW G1 Finals spoilers
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 27th, '21, 13:35



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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 27th, '21, 14:20

Well f*ck.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 27th, '21, 14:25

Big Red Machine wrote: Oct 27th, '21, 14:20 Well f*ck.
Everyone is taking this as the end of ROH.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Thelone » Oct 27th, '21, 16:19

Something I wrote on ROH World a couple of years ago :
Thelone wrote:
monster mafia wrote:sooooooo RIP ROH 2002-2019.
Add a year or two and you're much closer to reality that you're willing to admit.
Granted, that was before THE PLAGUE and all, but they took such massive blows in 18-19 that it was either gonna take years to go back to even 13-15 levels, or Sinclair was going to pull the plug sooner or later. Like, I never understood the whole "it's cheap programming for SBG" thing when ROH TV airs mostly during graveyard hours where you can put fucking anything else instead.

I guess we'll see how it goes, but I'm not too optimistic about it.

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 27th, '21, 19:17



Maria is certainly acting as if this is the end (at least for the women's division, if not for the whole company).
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 31st, '21, 09:04

I want to flag this week's Bryan & Lance show debate over the AEW main event because of the way Lance perfectly lays out what all of the "who cares? It got a big pop!" people miss.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 31st, '21, 09:25

Big Red Machine wrote: Oct 31st, '21, 09:04 I want to flag this week's Bryan & Lance show debate over the AEW main event because of the way Lance perfectly lays out what all of the "who cares? It got a big pop!" people miss.
We can make it it's own topic. It's been controversial over at the F4W Board. All the awkwardness of Lance losing his cool aside, I think it perfectly shows how people like him book perfectly good wrestling, but don't know how to make wrestling special.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 31st, '21, 09:52

cero2k wrote: Oct 31st, '21, 09:25
Big Red Machine wrote: Oct 31st, '21, 09:04 I want to flag this week's Bryan & Lance show debate over the AEW main event because of the way Lance perfectly lays out what all of the "who cares? It got a big pop!" people miss.
We can make it it's own topic. It's been controversial over at the F4W Board. All the awkwardness of Lance losing his cool aside, I think it perfectly shows how people like him book perfectly good wrestling, but don't know how to make wrestling special.
Again... missing the point.

AEW had two choices: They could have done this in a way that appeals to more people overall but might appeal slightly less to a certain (admittedly large) segment of their fanbase (Lance's way), or they could have done what they did, which appealed to those people slightly more than doing it Lance's way, but at the cost of being a major turn-off to a chunk of viewers. No one has ever complained because a show made too much sense.
This doesn't need to be "special." This moment doesn't do sh*t. No one is buying the PPV of getting more invested in the storyline because of this. Bryan can claim that he he will "never forget" this, but Bryan forgets a whole lot of things, and for someone who claims to be on the high end of people of like logic in their wrestling, he sure misses a lot of logical issues.
The Adam Page promo from a few weeks ago was what needed to be special, and it was pretty great. Doing this damages the specialness that that promo brought to the story. It hurts the story for people like Lance and me, and doesn't actually add anything to it for people like Bryan. I would argue that this is a mistake for any company in any situation, but doubly so for a company that is trying to grow. To get that "second million viewers" that Wade Keller talks about.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Thelone » Oct 31st, '21, 15:33

It had even less of an impact anyway because Allin did pretty much the same thing an hour earlier, also FTR a couple of weeks ago, Hayter when she came back, and I'm pretty sure someone else between those two. The angle itself was just the usual Elite """comedy""" like "69 ME DON" and the many, many cringey shit these clowns do.

I don't remember where I read this, but this whole Page-Omega storyline feels like a book which has a beginning, an end, and about 300 blank pages in between. The AEW hardcore fans have been formatted to think that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (and they'll pretend to be shocked when Page kicks out of the OWA at Full Gear) when it really isn't. I barely remember how Omega "turned" on Page besides Jazz Hands talking down to him after he randomly decided to become an asshole during the FTR "feud" and both drifting apart afterwards. That's just not a compelling story and the massive downtime between interactions (that's being generous) didn't help.

This is a story that's been going on forever and yet feels like it's also nowhere near the HoMeStReTcH ("Buy the shirt soon at ShopAEW.com!!!"), but they can't delay it any further without damaging Page.

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 31st, '21, 16:50

Thelone wrote: Oct 31st, '21, 15:33

I don't remember where I read this, but this whole Page-Omega storyline feels like a book which has a beginning, an end, and about 300 blank pages in between. The AEW hardcore fans have been formatted to think that this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (and they'll pretend to be shocked when Page kicks out of the OWA at Full Gear) when it really isn't. I barely remember how Omega "turned" on Page besides Jazz Hands talking down to him after he randomly decided to become an asshole during the FTR "feud" and both drifting apart afterwards. That's just not a compelling story and the massive downtime between interactions (that's being generous) didn't help.
Omega "turning" on Page was refusing to team with him anymore... which it was hard to fault him for doing considering that Page was a blithering drunk at the time who had just screwed Kenny's pals the Young Bucks out of a title shot.

I totally agree with this. This idea that Page had "lost his confidence" and then somehow "got it back" due to help from the Dark Order exists completely in the die-hards' (and inattentive people like Meltzer's) imaginations, because they never once showed Page seeming to lack confidence until it was time for the segment where something happened to make him get it back, so the whole thing feels like an ass-pull.

I go into more detail on this (and explain how it could have been done much better) in this thread, under the heading "Adam Page is upset with the Dark Order").

http://www.thewrestlingrevolution.com/f ... 78&t=23955
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by cero2k » Oct 31st, '21, 20:52

Big Red Machine wrote: Oct 31st, '21, 09:52
Again... missing the point.

AEW had two choices: They could have done this in a way that appeals to more people overall but might appeal slightly less to a certain (admittedly large) segment of their fanbase (Lance's way), or they could have done what they did, which appealed to those people slightly more than doing it Lance's way, but at the cost of being a major turn-off to a chunk of viewers. No one has ever complained because a show made too much sense.
This doesn't need to be "special." This moment doesn't do sh*t. No one is buying the PPV of getting more invested in the storyline because of this. Bryan can claim that he he will "never forget" this, but Bryan forgets a whole lot of things, and for someone who claims to be on the high end of people of like logic in their wrestling, he sure misses a lot of logical issues.
The Adam Page promo from a few weeks ago was what needed to be special, and it was pretty great. Doing this damages the specialness that that promo brought to the story. It hurts the story for people like Lance and me, and doesn't actually add anything to it for people like Bryan. I would argue that this is a mistake for any company in any situation, but doubly so for a company that is trying to grow. To get that "second million viewers" that Wade Keller talks about.
I'm not missing the point, I know exactly what he's talking about and I think he's overreacting.

100% of people thinking something was 'good' or 'ok'. OR
90% of people thinking it was 'great' or 'awesome' and then 10% being grumpy.
I think it's a fair trade. Those 10% more than likely have their biases anyway.

Lance booked a perfectly generic spot for any given episode, but it's not a Halloween episode, that you don't get to do often. Generic wrestling don't bring in new people, excitement and buzz does.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 31st, '21, 21:20

cero2k wrote: Oct 31st, '21, 20:52
Big Red Machine wrote: Oct 31st, '21, 09:52
Again... missing the point.

AEW had two choices: They could have done this in a way that appeals to more people overall but might appeal slightly less to a certain (admittedly large) segment of their fanbase (Lance's way), or they could have done what they did, which appealed to those people slightly more than doing it Lance's way, but at the cost of being a major turn-off to a chunk of viewers. No one has ever complained because a show made too much sense.
This doesn't need to be "special." This moment doesn't do sh*t. No one is buying the PPV of getting more invested in the storyline because of this. Bryan can claim that he he will "never forget" this, but Bryan forgets a whole lot of things, and for someone who claims to be on the high end of people of like logic in their wrestling, he sure misses a lot of logical issues.
The Adam Page promo from a few weeks ago was what needed to be special, and it was pretty great. Doing this damages the specialness that that promo brought to the story. It hurts the story for people like Lance and me, and doesn't actually add anything to it for people like Bryan. I would argue that this is a mistake for any company in any situation, but doubly so for a company that is trying to grow. To get that "second million viewers" that Wade Keller talks about.
I'm not missing the point, I know exactly what he's talking about and I think he's overreacting.

100% of people thinking something was 'good' or 'ok'. OR
90% of people thinking it was 'great' or 'awesome' and then 10% being grumpy.
I think it's a fair trade. Those 10% more than likely have their biases anyway.

Lance booked a perfectly generic spot for any given episode, but it's not a Halloween episode, that you don't get to do often. Generic wrestling don't bring in new people, excitement and buzz does.
Assuming that the people who don't like what you do for a specific reason that they tell you "are just biased, anyway" is a cult-like mentality. These people have told you exactly what they don't like and what they like. To assume that they people are being disingenuous and will shift their preferences just to spite you is paranoid in the extreme.

And is it really a "fair trade" if you're giving up 10% less PPV money, and getting nothing in return other than people who will already like your show liking it a little more?

Also, don't mistake polarized reactions for buzz and excitement. There is a reason TNA has gotten nowhere.
The reason this match has gotten so much attention is people who didn't like it saying it was stupid (and then people who did like it jumping in to defend it). No one would be taking about it other than "LOL, they were costumes" if it weren't for people who disliked it having such a viserally negative reaction to it.



So what if it's a "Halloween episode" of the show? That doesn't mean you have to do something goofy and Halloween-themed. By that logic they need to do a Thanksgiving episode with a WWE-style food-fight and a TNA Turkey Suit Tournament, and on New Years they should send someone out on TV in the new year baby sash and diaper, like WWE had Big E. do a few years ago. I just got done watching the Rangers vs. Kraken game tonight. The players didn't come out in costumes. If UFC did a show on Halloween, the fighters wouldn't fight in costumes.
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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Thelone » Nov 1st, '21, 12:39

The overall issue is that it's a main event storyline and most of its content is bordering on bad comedy. Page drinking was never taken seriously, mostly used to make dumb jokes on his graphics and the oh-so-funny gag of him holding a drink whenever he was on screen. When you add the Dark Order nonsense and the Elite goofiness, it is hard to tell if Page is over because people genuinely care about his story no matter how hollow it actually is, or just because "haha, it's the drunk cowboy with his goofy graphics and equally stupid loser friends".

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Re: Day-to-Day Quote Topic

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 1st, '21, 16:19

Thelone wrote: Nov 1st, '21, 12:39 The overall issue is that it's a main event storyline and most of its content is bordering on bad comedy. Page drinking was never taken seriously, mostly used to make dumb jokes on his graphics and the oh-so-funny gag of him holding a drink whenever he was on screen. When you add the Dark Order nonsense and the Elite goofiness, it is hard to tell if Page is over because people genuinely care about his story no matter how hollow it actually is, or just because "haha, it's the drunk cowboy with his goofy graphics and equally stupid loser friends".
it was the "COWBOY SH*T!" chant that got him over. If he doesn't stumble across that phrase, he's nowhere near as over as he is now. Modern wrestling fans like things they can chant.
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