Old Timers and Crown Jewel

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NWK2000
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Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by NWK2000 » Nov 5th, '18, 21:44

I think an important way to start this off is to say in no way am I defending the booking of Crown Jewel. Most of it was a train wreck. It heavily relied on booking that favored stars of the past and stars that only wrestle part time. But what shocks me the most about it is the venomous hatred smart fans are spewing about it. And not that that's an incorrect thing to feel, per se, but I mean, are you surprised?

Wrestling has had a history of relying on old timer. From George Scott's run in `1989 WCW, in which he brought back The Iron Sheik (who was not the man he was when he beat Backlund for the title in 1984) and Ricky Steamboat (who, thank goodness for Scott , still had it) and was only there because Steamboat and Flair had done good business when Scott booked Mid Atlantic.

Bruno Sammartino was brought back to win the belt in the mid 1970s because Pedro was not the babyface champion Vince McMahon Sr had hoped for, and then brought back AGAIN to feud with people like Piper and Savage in the 80s.

Hell, one side of the Monday Night Wars was populated by old stars its competition had made a decade before.
TNA was basically a retirement home for WWE stars when Dixie Carter had the say on who to hire, and the list goes on and on.

Would we all like to see younger superstars get pushed? Yes absolutely. Wrestling companies like Ring of Honor have been founded and thrived off that desire. But every time somebody like Triple H or Goldberg steps into the ring decades past their best working years, smart fans froth at the mouth like it's some new, appalling, dirty trick that a scummy promoter has pulled on us. .However, all one has to do is scroll the WWE, WCW or TNA Championship history section of Wikipedia, and it's clear as day that this is a tale as old as time.


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Big Red Machine
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 5th, '18, 22:06

I think some of the issue here in particular is the idea that this wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the prince paying WWE so much money (the Australia match only happened to set up the Crown Jewel match). Think about it: After all of the offers WWE made to HBK to come back that he rejected- WrestleMania dream matches with the likes of AJ Styles and his own student Bryan Danielson, (and other pitches I'm sure they made to him over the years that we don't know about)- and throughout all of this Shawn held firm, insistent that he wasn't going to be one of those guys that comes back after retiring... and some f*cking money mark shows up at WWE's doorstep with enough money to buy Shawn off for a completely meaningless tag match with a bunch of guys we've seen him in the ring with a bunch of times before?
And this same money mark literally got Vince to change his booking plans and delay Roman's coronation by another few months and give us a few more months of Brock Lesnar not showing up just to give this guy a big WWE Universal Title match on his special show.
Right or wrong, when companies like WCW and TNA put old guys on top of their cards, they were doing so as a calculated business decision based on what they thought was best for their company in terms of producing an in-ring product they thought fans would want to watch. Here it's all happening for no other reason than a rich dude paid them a bunch of money in order to do it for a show in his home country.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by cero2k » Nov 5th, '18, 22:47

To add to what Red said. The 2 things I see at crown jewel the overexposure and shitting of their legends with no disregard in the same show.

See it with Angle and Mysterio, both are brought back like big deals, and the lose to zero consequence in the tournament, it's ok to defeat your legends, but make it matter. A tournament that means nothing and at the end the winner was not even in the tourny.

But then you take some other legends like Taker, we all know he's waaay past his prime and you put him on the top of the card in a destruction derby. Lane had a broke ankle a few months back. You're asking for it. HBK looked great because the other 3 were barely functional.

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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Bob-O » Nov 6th, '18, 09:43

I think the issue is more with part timers getting featured roles than them being old. The age certainly has something to do with it, as Undertaker is going to suffer far more scrutiny than The Rock, but The Rock is going to catch his fare share as well.

If any of these guys were fixtures on the active roster, in the mix of the show, I think the energy would be just the normal negativity we're used to and not the barrage this perfect storm of greed has provided us.

When Bruno was brought back the first time, he was still in a position to draw more money than Pedro (happy fans). When they brought him back the second time, he was doing honors for Savage and Piper - but he was still in the mix (working nostalgia). But, could you imagine if they decided Wrestlemania 3 would be better headlined by a returning Sammartino to settle the score once and for all with a returning Superstar Billy Graham - bad hips and all? They'd have blown most of their budget on tarps for the upper two levels of the Silverdome.

That's basically what the main event of Crown Jewel was, except back then people would talk with their wallets at the gate and nobody would get paid. Today's fan just complains anonymously on the internet, but will still tune in and buy tickets and t shirts, so they can keep up with their complaining.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by KILLdozer » Nov 6th, '18, 10:32

Hey! That Rock and The Undertaker comparison has just provided me with the answer to it all! More steroids! Even Triple H could use a small bit...
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by cero2k » Nov 6th, '18, 10:48

KILLdozer wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 10:32
Hey! That Rock and The Undertaker comparison has just provided me with the answer to it all! More steroids! Even Triple H could use a small bit...
you got your fix with Hogan, look at those pythons.

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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by KILLdozer » Nov 6th, '18, 10:51

No, if the 4 of them did them as well, the situation wouldn't be receiving nearly as much backlash lol.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by cero2k » Nov 6th, '18, 10:55

KILLdozer wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 10:51
No, if the 4 of them did them as well, the situation wouldn't be receiving nearly as much backlash lol.
you mean, take the slowest match of the night, with the men that can't move, and make it even slower? They'd make Kikutaro vs Ebessan look like 205Live

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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by KILLdozer » Nov 6th, '18, 10:59

Well, I just know a lot of it has to do with how ridiculous they mostly look...
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Bob-O » Nov 6th, '18, 11:09

They should make Shawn wear a wig like Taker.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by cero2k » Nov 6th, '18, 11:28

Bob-O wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 11:09
They should make Shawn wear a wig like Taker.
so that's why he pulled off Kane's mask! he wanted the fake hair!

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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by KILLdozer » Nov 6th, '18, 11:36

Again-Completely bald headed Shawn Michaels is nothing anyone should ever see again! I wish Jericho was around to make jokes about it just for the absurd and ridiculous things he'd say.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Bob-O » Nov 6th, '18, 12:03

Jericho's living in a glass house these days himself...
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 6th, '18, 12:38

cero2k wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 11:28
Bob-O wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 11:09
They should make Shawn wear a wig like Taker.
so that's why he pulled off Kane's mask! he wanted the fake hair!
Maybe that's the beginning of their angle for Mania. They're going to build up to HBK vs. Kane in a reverse hair vs. hair match.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 6th, '18, 12:39

Bob-O wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 12:03
Jericho's living in a glass house these days himself...
Jericho has been able to go at a high level in all of his appearances.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Bob-O » Nov 6th, '18, 12:48

Big Red Machine wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 12:39
Bob-O wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 12:03
Jericho's living in a glass house these days himself...
Jericho has been able to go at a high level in all of his appearances.
Good point. That'll shut Shawn right up.
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by KILLdozer » Nov 6th, '18, 15:24

Yes! Loser...has to...WEAR A WIG!
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Re: Old Timers and Crown Jewel

Post by Big Red Machine » Nov 6th, '18, 16:21

KILLdozer wrote:
Nov 6th, '18, 15:24
Yes! Loser...has to...WEAR A WIG!
I was actually thinking more along the lines of the winner gets the wig that comes with the Kane mask, and the loser is not allowed to ever wear a wig.
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