Your 5 star matches

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » Apr 8th, '18, 16:01

Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 8th, '18, 12:29
Holy f*cking sh*t that Ciampa vs. Gargano match!
I'm sure Dave is gonna go beyond 5 stars for it.



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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 8th, '18, 16:07

cero2k wrote:
Apr 8th, '18, 16:01
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 8th, '18, 12:29
Holy f*cking sh*t that Ciampa vs. Gargano match!
I'm sure Dave is gonna go beyond 5 stars for it.
He'd better, but if I had to guess he'll spend all of his snowflakes on that Young Bucks spotfest that wouldn't end.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by NWK2000 » Apr 16th, '18, 10:08

Tenryu vs Savage at the AJPW/NJPW/WWF summit.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » May 3rd, '18, 20:06

Will Ospreay vs. Adam Brooks from PWG Time is a Flat Circle.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » May 5th, '18, 00:27

Big Red Machine wrote:
May 3rd, '18, 20:06
Will Ospreay vs. Adam Brooks from PWG Time is a Flat Circle.
Will Ospreay vs KUSHIDA from NJPW WD18 Night 2

edit: may as well add Okada vs Tanahashi, didn't give it the full 10, but it was up there too

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » May 5th, '18, 19:13

Ospreay vs. KUSHIDA for me, too. I now have Ospreay with three 10/10s in a span of about six weeks.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » May 10th, '18, 08:55

Dave gave Okada vs. Tanahashi *****1/2, but only gave KUSHIDA vs. Ospreay ****3/4. DOes he have it in for KUSHIDA or something?
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » May 10th, '18, 09:57

Big Red Machine wrote:
May 10th, '18, 08:55
Dave gave Okada vs. Tanahashi *****1/2, but only gave KUSHIDA vs. Ospreay ****3/4. DOes he have it in for KUSHIDA or something?
I'm 100% sure that Bryan talked him down from the 5 because 'Ospreay is killing himself'. I really thought this was the show that would have 2 five stars. If you listen to that WON, Dave comes in all excited and Alvarez just talked him out of it

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » May 10th, '18, 10:11

cero2k wrote:
May 10th, '18, 09:57
Big Red Machine wrote:
May 10th, '18, 08:55
Dave gave Okada vs. Tanahashi *****1/2, but only gave KUSHIDA vs. Ospreay ****3/4. DOes he have it in for KUSHIDA or something?
I'm 100% sure that Bryan talked him down from the 5 because 'Ospreay is killing himself'. I really thought this was the show that would have 2 five stars. If you listen to that WON, Dave comes in all excited and Alvarez just talked him out of it
Yeah. Alvarez does that sometimes. I think he refused to give Shawn vs. Taker at WM25 ***** until he was certain Taker wasn't hurt, and then he never got around to watching the match back.
I don't want Ospreay to be paralyzed, either, but the dude is an adult and whether he is hurt or not shouldn't influence a rating. It's not like this is the Steenerico vs. Briscoes Ladder War where Dave refused to rate it because he didn't want people hurting themselves trying to top it (which even then was specious but understandable because it was just a few months post-Benoit, and Gabe had basically immediately said he would never book another one or anything similar to the post-match angle for the same reason). That was weapons and stuff. This was a wrestling match with a guy who happened to have an injured neck. I'm not an expert, but to me the thing that seemed the most dangerous were a lot of those kicks to the head and that punch rather than the "head-landing spots," which guys like Ophidian have made a career out of doing safely even though they look like they're landing right on their foreheads. I saw BJ Whitmer almost get paralyzed live (the first one) and this looked nothing like that.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » May 10th, '18, 10:23

Big Red Machine wrote:
May 10th, '18, 10:11


Yeah. Alvarez does that sometimes. I think he refused to give Shawn vs. Taker at WM25 ***** until he was certain Taker wasn't hurt, and then he never got around to watching the match back.
I don't want Ospreay to be paralyzed, either, but the dude is an adult and whether he is hurt or not shouldn't influence a rating. It's not like this is the Steenerico vs. Briscoes Ladder War where Dave refused to rate it because he didn't want people hurting themselves trying to top it (which even then was specious but understandable because it was just a few months post-Benoit, and Gabe had basically immediately said he would never book another one or anything similar to the post-match angle for the same reason). That was weapons and stuff. This was a wrestling match with a guy who happened to have an injured neck. I'm not an expert, but to me the thing that seemed the most dangerous were a lot of those kicks to the head and that punch rather than the "head-landing spots," which guys like Ophidian have made a career out of doing safely even though they look like they're landing right on their foreheads. I saw BJ Whitmer almost get paralyzed live (the first one) and this looked nothing like that.
to me it was the Essex Destroyer and the DDT to the outside, but idk, i guess i didn't see the replays he saw, but they seemed to be ok.

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » Jun 5th, '18, 12:13

Takahashi vs Ishimori from June 4!

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » Jun 7th, '18, 06:08

cero2k wrote:
Jun 5th, '18, 12:13
Takahashi vs Ishimori from June 4!
Dave gave it 5.5*

Flip vs Ospreay got 4.75*

most of the rest got 4.25*. June 3rd probably had the most 'over 4' matches i've seen in a while

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 14th, '18, 06:21

Dave went ******* for Omega vs. Okada, so Cyrus will have to change some of his shtick now that Omega has actually had a seven-star match.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by NWK2000 » Jun 17th, '18, 01:59

Ciampa vs Gargano, Takeover Chicago I gave an 11/10
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 5th, '18, 03:01

Buddy Murphy vs. Mustafa Ali from this week's 205 Live. You MUST watch this match.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » Jul 5th, '18, 07:48

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 03:01
Buddy Murphy vs. Mustafa Ali from this week's 205 Live. You MUST watch this match.
it's technically better than Omega vs Okada IV

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 5th, '18, 10:41

cero2k wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 07:48
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 03:01
Buddy Murphy vs. Mustafa Ali from this week's 205 Live. You MUST watch this match.
it's technically better than Omega vs Okada IV
Yes. If they wanted to do stay outside the ring for five straight minutes they should have had a match with no count-outs. If Gabe can change his rules to match the style of the day why can't other promoters do it? It's supposed to be a sport. "Lebron was out of bounds, but it was such a cool play that the referee has decided to allow it" is not a phrase you'd ever hear in the NBA.
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » Jul 5th, '18, 11:02

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 10:41
cero2k wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 07:48
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 03:01
Buddy Murphy vs. Mustafa Ali from this week's 205 Live. You MUST watch this match.
it's technically better than Omega vs Okada IV
Yes. If they wanted to do stay outside the ring for five straight minutes they should have had a match with no count-outs. If Gabe can change his rules to match the style of the day why can't other promoters do it? It's supposed to be a sport. "Lebron was out of bounds, but it was such a cool play that the referee has decided to allow it" is not a phrase you'd ever hear in the NBA.
you do in Soccer tho, playing an advantage, but at the end of the day, in NBA, Soccer, and what not, it is ALWAYS to the discretion of the refs, so if the refs allows plays to go, then the plays are allowed to go. this is a fake sport where drama can get killed if they try to maintain rules that are only taking you and bill watts out of the match.

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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by Big Red Machine » Jul 5th, '18, 11:40

cero2k wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 11:02
Big Red Machine wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 10:41
cero2k wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 07:48


it's technically better than Omega vs Okada IV
Yes. If they wanted to do stay outside the ring for five straight minutes they should have had a match with no count-outs. If Gabe can change his rules to match the style of the day why can't other promoters do it? It's supposed to be a sport. "Lebron was out of bounds, but it was such a cool play that the referee has decided to allow it" is not a phrase you'd ever hear in the NBA.
you do in Soccer tho, playing an advantage, but at the end of the day, in NBA, Soccer, and what not, it is ALWAYS to the discretion of the refs, so if the refs allows plays to go, then the plays are allowed to go. this is a fake sport where drama can get killed if they try to maintain rules that are only taking you and bill watts out of the match.
Soccer is a horrific example, considering that they don't even play a consistent amount of time in every game. This "stoppage time" silliness needs to stop right away. Just blow the whistle and stop the clock when the ball goes out of bounds. That way you don't have to round to the nearest minute and every game can be played for the same amount of time like it's supposed to be.
Yes, it's up to the referee's discretion, but there is a certain level that is just WAY over the line, which gets crossed in basically every match. In a real sport, when a call that is up to the referee's discretion winds up going against the rules and affects the outcome of the came, that referee is absolutely crucified. And during the game, the announcers always preach fidelity to the rules. They will try to explain to you what they think the referee saw (or didn't see) that resulted in the referee making the call he/she made. That is vastly different from what we see most places in pro wrestling nowadays where the referee blatantly ignores the rules and the announcers hail him/her as some sort of hero for doing so.

As for the Watts analogy, that doesn't hold any water. Watts' changes to the in-ring product all had to do with psychology. He took away top rope stuff because he thought he could retrain the audience to accept it as this sort of devastating thing that heels could do illegally to hurt the babyface, not because he had some hatred for this new-fangled jumping stuff.


There is a clear and obvious solution to this problem. Gabe found it. Why can't anyone else?
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Re: Your 5 star matches

Post by cero2k » Jul 5th, '18, 15:03

Big Red Machine wrote:
Jul 5th, '18, 11:40

Soccer is a horrific example, considering that they don't even play a consistent amount of time in every game. This "stoppage time" silliness needs to stop right away. Just blow the whistle and stop the clock when the ball goes out of bounds. That way you don't have to round to the nearest minute and every game can be played for the same amount of time like it's supposed to be.
Yes, it's up to the referee's discretion, but there is a certain level that is just WAY over the line, which gets crossed in basically every match. In a real sport, when a call that is up to the referee's discretion winds up going against the rules and affects the outcome of the came, that referee is absolutely crucified. And during the game, the announcers always preach fidelity to the rules. They will try to explain to you what they think the referee saw (or didn't see) that resulted in the referee making the call he/she made. That is vastly different from what we see most places in pro wrestling nowadays where the referee blatantly ignores the rules and the announcers hail him/her as some sort of hero for doing so.

As for the Watts analogy, that doesn't hold any water. Watts' changes to the in-ring product all had to do with psychology. He took away top rope stuff because he thought he could retrain the audience to accept it as this sort of devastating thing that heels could do illegally to hurt the babyface, not because he had some hatred for this new-fangled jumping stuff.


There is a clear and obvious solution to this problem. Gabe found it. Why can't anyone else?
except it is not a problem, it's only your problem, no one else complains about it, especially to the point where they're willing to hinder what is considered, by laaarge (majority?) consensus of wrestling fans, the best wrestling match ever. I believe Gabe is a good booker and I believe that he made that call because it made sense to THAT specific story, not because he learned that his guys are going to spend more than 20 seconds outside the ring and they don't want to break a count.

Soccer is a perfect example, because in sports and in wrestling, sometimes you need to adapt. Rules are important, but the anal enforcement of them only leads to boring ass spectacles that kill momentum. ESPECIALLY, in a fake sport like wrestling.

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