WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by cero2k » Apr 15th, '20, 18:59


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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by KILLdozer » Apr 15th, '20, 19:20

Never liked her at all, but doesn't change the fact that if you're not a top star you're literally fired at this point.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Thelone » Apr 16th, '20, 03:58

I'm surprised there isn't more to be brutally honest, but I guess they might do that in waves over a certain period of time.

While it sucks for those guys and girls to lose their job during this thing, it also says a lot about why they signed those guys when Vince is perfectly fine to dump them when there's almost nothing else in terms of alternatives right now (AEW and Impact I think?). Even then, those (well, mostly AEW) won't go on a shopping spree right now and are just trying to stay afloat themselves.

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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 16th, '20, 23:53

Well sh*t.

Also, do we know that WWE has the money to pay these people? While they have the TV rights deals (which they are bending over backwards to make sure they fulfill to the letter because they're worried about the networks trying to find a way to stiff them because the networks' incomes are also down), the Saudi deal is contingent on shows happening, and WWE has now missed out on a month's worth of gates.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by KILLdozer » Apr 17th, '20, 02:40

Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 16th, '20, 23:53
Well sh*t.

Also, do we know that WWE has the money to pay these people? While they have the TV rights deals (which they are bending over backwards to make sure they fulfill to the letter because they're worried about the networks trying to find a way to stiff them because the networks' incomes are also down), the Saudi deal is contingent on shows happening, and WWE has now missed out on a month's worth of gates.
This man just questioned WWE's money situation! Forever banned! Say hello to Brett Birnberg big man!
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by XIV » Apr 17th, '20, 03:30

Maybe Vince will sell the Network as previously rumoured..
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 17th, '20, 07:05

KILLdozer wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 02:40
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 16th, '20, 23:53
Well sh*t.

Also, do we know that WWE has the money to pay these people? While they have the TV rights deals (which they are bending over backwards to make sure they fulfill to the letter because they're worried about the networks trying to find a way to stiff them because the networks' incomes are also down), the Saudi deal is contingent on shows happening, and WWE has now missed out on a month's worth of gates.
This man just questioned WWE's money situation! Forever banned! Say hello to Brett Birnberg big man!
I'm saying we don't know how much not having a gate is hurting them, nor how much money everyone who got cut made and how much money everyone still on the roster makes. Remember how they were WAY over-paying for midcard talent to keep them out of AEW last year? Let's wait to judge until we get the financials next week.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by cero2k » Apr 17th, '20, 09:55

Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 16th, '20, 23:53
Well sh*t.

Also, do we know that WWE has the money to pay these people? While they have the TV rights deals (which they are bending over backwards to make sure they fulfill to the letter because they're worried about the networks trying to find a way to stiff them because the networks' incomes are also down), the Saudi deal is contingent on shows happening, and WWE has now missed out on a month's worth of gates.
they easily did, they supposedly have about 500M in reserve, and since they had to delay moving offices, they're saving a lot of money from that, cutting those costs were MUCH higher than cutting people. At this point it's believed that WWE, even without the WM purse, no SA show, and no selling tickets, are STILL going to profit millions this year. They're still doing live shows regardless, so the network deals can't be affected.

Firing all these people could had been perfectly understandable outside of a pandemic. the big criticism is that while having the money to see this through, they fired them all (1) DAYS after the XFL folded, and (2) DAYS before the next investor's call, all because no matter what, profits over lives.

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This is a best/worst scenario WWE Risk Assessment for COVID-19. It's overall interesting, from somewhere in between you can get the info on whether they needed to be fired.
https://wrestlenomics.wordpress.com/202 ... ssessment/

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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 17th, '20, 10:13

cero2k wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 09:55
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 16th, '20, 23:53
Well sh*t.

Also, do we know that WWE has the money to pay these people? While they have the TV rights deals (which they are bending over backwards to make sure they fulfill to the letter because they're worried about the networks trying to find a way to stiff them because the networks' incomes are also down), the Saudi deal is contingent on shows happening, and WWE has now missed out on a month's worth of gates.
they easily did, they supposedly have about 500M in reserve, and since they had to delay moving offices, they're saving a lot of money from that, cutting those costs were MUCH higher than cutting people. At this point it's believed that WWE, even without the WM purse, no SA show, and no selling tickets, are STILL going to profit millions this year. They're still doing live shows regardless, so the network deals can't be affected.

Firing all these people could had been perfectly understandable outside of a pandemic. the big criticism is that while having the money to see this through, they fired them all (1) DAYS after the XFL folded, and (2) DAYS before the next investor's call, all because no matter what, profits over lives.

Some resources





This is a best/worst scenario WWE Risk Assessment for COVID-19. It's overall interesting, from somewhere in between you can get the info on whether they needed to be fired.
https://wrestlenomics.wordpress.com/202 ... ssessment/
1. Do we know they're not upping people's pay with hazard pay to do the shows right now? That would cut into things.

2. They're doing live shows because they're specifically worried about the network deals. That means that if there is a point where they are barred from doing live shows, they're worried that not all of the network money will be there. This is planning for an eventuality.

3. Don't forget that the costs on the new office is money going to people working for the construction/moving companies and whatnot. You can argue that WWE has an obligation to take of their own people before someone else's, but it's not like that money is disappearing into this mystical hole of evil corporate greed.

4. We don't know how long this is going to last with the no gates (and no merch sales at the buildings). It's hard for me to blame them. Something that has stuck with me that I heard on a podcast recently was a story from some point in the past about wrestlers in a big Japanese promotion not getting paid or taking cuts or something like that (in the mid-2000s, I think) where one of the senior wrestlers who was also office explained the justification for not paying people/cutting everyone's pay as "the company gets paid first, because if the company doesn't get paid today, all of us don't get paid for much longer that we're going to be not getting paid right now."

Does it suck? Yes. Do I think it would have been better to just cut salaries than release a bunch of people? Absolutely. But I can't blame them for making the cuts without knowing their financials. We don't know what everyone is making, and how much they need for the next two or three years.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by KILLdozer » Apr 17th, '20, 10:52

Man get outta here. One of THE, BIGGEST multi Billionaire companies in the world, and you question their finances? I feel like I'm repeating the last one in different words lol. They could sign the 3 of us to 10 Million dollar contracts AND still pay all 30 something they just fired. Sure they won't be making as much now, but they're not losing any either.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 17th, '20, 11:50

KILLdozer wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 10:52
Man get outta here. One of THE, BIGGEST multi Billionaire companies in the world, and you question their finances? I feel like I'm repeating the last one in different words lol. They could sign the 3 of us to 10 Million dollar contracts AND still pay all 30 something they just fired. Sure they won't be making as much now, but they're not losing any either.
Again... this is operating under the assumption that the TV network money is not in jeopardy. WWE's move to go live event though it's more expensive to do so obviously indicated that they think it is.

Also, there is nothing stopping them from re-signing any of these people the moment they see that things are going to clear up sooner than the worst case scenario they seem to be preparing for.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by KILLdozer » Apr 17th, '20, 12:17

I mean yeah ...as stated-the bottom half is all about where those guys are all at when the dust settles.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by cero2k » Apr 17th, '20, 12:44

Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 10:13

1. Do we know they're not upping people's pay with hazard pay to do the shows right now? That would cut into things.

2. They're doing live shows because they're specifically worried about the network deals. That means that if there is a point where they are barred from doing live shows, they're worried that not all of the network money will be there. This is planning for an eventuality.

3. Don't forget that the costs on the new office is money going to people working for the construction/moving companies and whatnot. You can argue that WWE has an obligation to take of their own people before someone else's, but it's not like that money is disappearing into this mystical hole of evil corporate greed.

4. We don't know how long this is going to last with the no gates (and no merch sales at the buildings). It's hard for me to blame them. Something that has stuck with me that I heard on a podcast recently was a story from some point in the past about wrestlers in a big Japanese promotion not getting paid or taking cuts or something like that (in the mid-2000s, I think) where one of the senior wrestlers who was also office explained the justification for not paying people/cutting everyone's pay as "the company gets paid first, because if the company doesn't get paid today, all of us don't get paid for much longer that we're going to be not getting paid right now."

Does it suck? Yes. Do I think it would have been better to just cut salaries than release a bunch of people? Absolutely. But I can't blame them for making the cuts without knowing their financials. We don't know what everyone is making, and how much they need for the next two or three years.
1. they fired the same people they made travel to the shows, they have guys like Lawler on the shows. They're not protecting them in any sort of way. They're definitely not paying for hazards.

2. And it's all in Vince's head, there is no proof that the networks were going to cancel them if the shows aren't live. ESPECIALLY USA.

3. The new office was stopped. that is money being saved. firing people is money being saved. it's all money being saved to create larger profits, it's not money being put into other areas. it's just profit profit profit for thursday's inverstor's call.

4. We don't know, but we do know they have 500 MILLION dollars in reserve to last this thing. that is FAAAARRR more what other companies have. ROH is still paying their talent for shows that were cancelled. NJPW is paying everyone and hasn't had a show since February, not a single one. Impact is still paying and contracting people.
Yeah, no gate money, but they still have WWE Network money, online merch sales, network money, oh yeah, and $500 MILLION DOLLARS in RESERVE!

Dozer is right. Defending the McMahon's greed is the wrong hill to die on. Why do you always defend these greedy hypocrit McMahons?

Nothing happens, absolutely NOTHING happens if 1, 2, even 3 quarters don't make profit.


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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by cero2k » Apr 17th, '20, 12:47

Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 11:50

Again... this is operating under the assumption that the TV network money is not in jeopardy. WWE's move to go live event though it's more expensive to do so obviously indicated that they think it is.

Also, there is nothing stopping them from re-signing any of these people the moment they see that things are going to clear up sooner than the worst case scenario they seem to be preparing for.
the Network money is not in jeopardy since they're still doing shows, and these shows since they're all from the PC are not losing money.

Yeah, they can get resigned, but meanwhile, these people don't have money income or chance to get other jobs. It doesn't matter if they bring them back, it matters that when they needed it the most, WWE turned their backs on them. If they resign, fuck those people, they're the stupidest people in the world. WWE stocked up on wrestlers to hurt other companies, and now all those people got thrown in the trash.

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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 17th, '20, 14:33

cero2k wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 12:44
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 10:13

1. Do we know they're not upping people's pay with hazard pay to do the shows right now? That would cut into things.

2. They're doing live shows because they're specifically worried about the network deals. That means that if there is a point where they are barred from doing live shows, they're worried that not all of the network money will be there. This is planning for an eventuality.

3. Don't forget that the costs on the new office is money going to people working for the construction/moving companies and whatnot. You can argue that WWE has an obligation to take of their own people before someone else's, but it's not like that money is disappearing into this mystical hole of evil corporate greed.

4. We don't know how long this is going to last with the no gates (and no merch sales at the buildings). It's hard for me to blame them. Something that has stuck with me that I heard on a podcast recently was a story from some point in the past about wrestlers in a big Japanese promotion not getting paid or taking cuts or something like that (in the mid-2000s, I think) where one of the senior wrestlers who was also office explained the justification for not paying people/cutting everyone's pay as "the company gets paid first, because if the company doesn't get paid today, all of us don't get paid for much longer that we're going to be not getting paid right now."

Does it suck? Yes. Do I think it would have been better to just cut salaries than release a bunch of people? Absolutely. But I can't blame them for making the cuts without knowing their financials. We don't know what everyone is making, and how much they need for the next two or three years.
1. they fired the same people they made travel to the shows, they have guys like Lawler on the shows. They're not protecting them in any sort of way. They're definitely not paying for hazards.

2. And it's all in Vince's head, there is no proof that the networks were going to cancel them if the shows aren't live. ESPECIALLY USA.

3. The new office was stopped. that is money being saved. firing people is money being saved. it's all money being saved to create larger profits, it's not money being put into other areas. it's just profit profit profit for thursday's inverstor's call.

4. We don't know, but we do know they have 500 MILLION dollars in reserve to last this thing. that is FAAAARRR more what other companies have. ROH is still paying their talent for shows that were cancelled. NJPW is paying everyone and hasn't had a show since February, not a single one. Impact is still paying and contracting people.
Yeah, no gate money, but they still have WWE Network money, online merch sales, network money, oh yeah, and $500 MILLION DOLLARS in RESERVE!

Dozer is right. Defending the McMahon's greed is the wrong hill to die on. Why do you always defend these greedy hypocrit McMahons?

Nothing happens, absolutely NOTHING happens if 1, 2, even 3 quarters don't make profit.

1. Do we know that for sure? WWE's mentality to me is definitely the sort of mentality that would force a bunch of people to fly to shows and not use them but still give them extra pay. Hell, the whole reason for the WM battle royales is to give people extra pay.

2. You're right that there is no proof and I'd be shocked if USA did, but Fox? Vince has no relationship with them and their ratings haven't been huge like everyone expected. But even with no evidence, I find it hard to blame Vince for acting i a way which takes a precaution for the financial security of his company. USA has never been in a situation like this before, either, and wrestling sells low adds, so I don't think it's a totally crazy thought to enter Vince's head that they might be the first to go (or at least NXT).

3. So then why are people complaining that they are or aren't going ahead with this office move. Obviously they can't move now. Is there stuff sitting in storage and they're paying for storage for longer?

4.A. WWE contracts don't work on appearances. They're downside guarantees, which I doubt most people are going to meet this year. It's nice of those companies to be paying people, but I don't think many of those people would be paid otherwise. WWE's talent is paid no matter what by default. This is important because it affects the way contract releases (or at least non-mutual) ones work.
These people are all still going to get paid. A lot. And they are already paid a lot. If these people are smart with their money, they should be more than fine for the next six months. If the status quo lasts longer than six months and there is no end in sight, WWE is going to look very smart for cutting so many costs (and you'll start seeing everyone else do similar). And the moment things start looking better and WWE has a better idea of what their prospects will be, they can sign as many of these guys as they want right back, but it will be at better prices for the workers because WWE will now have to compete with everyone else (and particularly AEW, but to a lesser extend also a more spending-happy ROH and New Japan) to secure their services.

4.B. Even if that wasn't the case, WWE is not under obligation to anyone other than WWE. They are not a charity. They are a business. Does it make all of their stuff about being a "family" feel like bullsh*t? Absolutely! But that stuff already does. Dog bites man is not news.
And for all of the bad stuff that WWE does, there is a lot of stuff they do that they don't get credit for. And I'm not even talking about healthcare that they pay for, even for people who don't work for them anymore. Some of these people... any other company would have gotten rid of them long ago. How many TV appearances to the Colons make each year? Three? Ditto for EY and EC3, Hawkins, and Sarah Logan was quickly getting there as well. Slater was lucky to have a job for as long as he did while providing so little actual benefit to the company. Ditto for a guy like Aiden English, who they had so little use for that they took him out of the ring.
I feel for the low-level NXT people like MJ Jenkins, who weren't making main roster money. I think it was tacky to let both members of a married couple go when they could have easily fed Raymond Rowe by just paying Sarah Logan. But I don't think they are under any obligation to their employees to keep them under contract when the company is clearly getting worried. Your instinct is to blame this on "corporate greed." My is to say that Vince is an insecure old man and a little paranoid, and given those parameters, I think he is acting the way one might expect an insecure and slightly paranoid old man who just suffered a big financial loss to act in this situation.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 17th, '20, 14:34

cero2k wrote:
Apr 17th, '20, 12:47
WWE stocked up on wrestlers to hurt other companies, and now all those people got thrown in the trash.
Except for all of the money they made while they were under WWE contract, which, according to many reports, was WAY above what they were actually worth because WWE was trying to make sure they didn't go to someone else.
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by cero2k » Apr 18th, '20, 11:47

I was half way through answering all that, but you obviously support companies over people. I'll never understand that.

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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by KILLdozer » Apr 18th, '20, 17:20

cero2k wrote:
Apr 18th, '20, 11:47
I was half way through answering all that, but you obviously support companies over people. I'll never understand that.
After YEARS of going crazy about all of their political work too like BeAStar and everything else...
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Big Red Machine » Apr 19th, '20, 11:51

cero2k wrote:
Apr 18th, '20, 11:47
I was half way through answering all that, but you obviously support companies over people. I'll never understand that.
And if you don't actually read my posts, you'll never understand what I was trying to say, either
Dave Meltzer wrote:Reading is your friend
Look at the established pattern of facts in the way that WWE handles contracts:
1. They are willing to keep people who don't want to work there under contract and pay them a bunch of money to barely use them on TV just to prevent them from going to AEW.

2. They are willing to WAY overpay people just to make sure that they don't go to AEW, even if WWE themselves has very in the way of plans for them.

3. Over the past five or so years WWE's MO has been to just let someone's contract run out rather than release them, just to avoid the bad PR of having fired someone, unless there are major behavioral problems involved (Simon Gotch, Alicia Fox), or someone really, truly, refusing to come to work (Aries, Pac), and then only after a long fight.

While the recent releases fit your narrative of corporate greed, neither the recent releases nor the pattern of behavior established above fit that narrative . So I will repeat::
I feel for the low-level NXT people like MJ Jenkins, who weren't making main roster money. I think it was tacky to let both members of a married couple go when they could have easily fed Raymond Rowe by just paying Sarah Logan. But I don't think they are under any obligation to their employees to keep them under contract when the company is clearly getting worried. Your instinct is to blame this on "corporate greed." Mine is to say that Vince is an insecure old man and a little paranoid, and given those parameters, I think he is acting the way one might expect an insecure and slightly paranoid old man who just suffered a big financial loss to act in this situation.

That's not caring about corporations over people. It's not letting the size of someone's bank account predetermine my belief in their innocence or guilt, and not forgetting that corporations are run by humans and thus subject to the whims of those human's emotions in their management decisions.

I'm also, quite frankly, a little tired of people calling WWE greedy corporate bastards in every news story that fits that narrative, but not acknowledging the things that WWE does with it's money that it is under no obligation to do. Things like paying for people's rehab, or giving old-timers in bad financial straights these "legends deals" that give them steady pay and a chance to make some merch money in exchange for a few trips to Florida or Connecticut a year to tape stuff for DVD/WWE Network (assuming WWE doesn't just fly people to their living rooms to tape it from the comfort of their own homes. If you're going to bury WWE for every time that they don't live up to your moral expectations, them you also need to be praising them every time they go above and beyond. To not do so exposes a bias. (If you'll notice, I usually don't comment on either types of story, mostly because I think it's obvious that something is or isn't a nice thing to do and doesn't need to be said out loud because everyone already knows it).
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Re: WWE announces talent releases: Anderson, Gallows, EC3, Lio Rush, more

Post by Thelone » Apr 19th, '20, 15:30

From what I've read here and there (so take it with a nice bucket of salt), those 500M WWE supposedly has in the bank are more like 90M with the rest being more or less loans or whatever they could take if things go south. Not saying that they're going bankrupt tomorrow, but that's a bit more concerning since I don't believe they'll hold any kind of crowded event for a year (yes, I'm including WM37), which leads to my second point.

With no house shows on sight, they're paying the vast majority of MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED wrestlers to sit at home and do nothing. Hell, two of their top stars (Reigns and Bryan) will be sitting at home until this whole thing blows over. The newbies in NXT will basically lose a year because I doubt they are training much right now judging by who they released in the trainers/producers department and aren't gaining experience either because there are no house shows. Like I said earlier, I'm surprised there isn't a lot more people released (like most of the NXT UK , 205, and older "untelevised" NXT guys), but maybe that'll come up later.

Finally, most of the guys they released weren't happy to be there (™) and some were pretty vocal about it. Like, Bennett was basically paid 500k a year to work the NXT Florida house shows at this point, you can't tell me he didn't know full well that he was one of the least important guys on the roster.

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