NJPW announces tournament match schedule for G1 Climax 29

[cero2k]

Source: f4wonline.com

NJPW has revealed the full tournament match schedule for this summer's G1 Climax.

The tournament will open with an A Block show at the American Airlines Center in Dallas, Texas on July 6. Hiroshi Tanahashi and Kazuchika Okada will face off in their first singles match against each other in the United States. Kota Ibushi vs. KENTA, SANADA vs. Zack Sabre Jr., EVIL vs. Bad Luck Fale, and Will Ospreay vs. Lance Archer are also set for Dallas.

The first B Block show will take place at the Ota City General Gymnasium in Tokyo on July 13. Jon Moxley vs. Taichi, Jay White vs. Hirooki Goto, Tomohiro Ishii vs. Jeff Cobb, Tetsuya Naito vs. Toru Yano, and Shingo Takagi vs. Juice Robinson are set.

From August 10-12, the G1 will conclude with three straight nights at Tokyo's Budokan Hall. The A Block finals are taking place on August 10, with Kazuchika Okada vs. Kota Ibushi, Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Will Ospreay, SANADA vs. Bad Luck Fale, EVIL vs. Lance Archer, and KENTA vs. Zack Sabre Jr. as the tournament matches.

The B Block finals are on August 11 and will have Tetsuya Naito vs. Jay White, Jon Moxley vs. Juice Robinson, Jeff Cobb vs. Toru Yano, Hirooki Goto vs. Shingo Takagi, and Tomohiro Ishii vs. Taichi.

On August 12, the winner of the A Block will take on the winner of the B Block in the tournament finals.

Here's the full list of tournament matches:

July 6 (A Block, Dallas, Texas) --
Kazuchika Okada vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi
Kota Ibushi vs. KENTA
SANADA vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
EVIL vs. Bad Luck Fale
Will Ospreay vs. Lance Archer

July 13 (B Block, Ota City General Gymnasium, Tokyo) --
Jon Moxley vs. Taichi
Jay White vs. Hirooki Goto
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Jeff Cobb
Tetsuya Naito vs. Toru Yano
Shingo Takagi vs. Juice Robinson

July 14 (A Block, Ota City General Gymnasium, Tokyo) --
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. KENTA
Bad Luck Fale vs. Lance Archer
Kota Ibushi vs. EVIL
Kazuchika Okada vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
Will Ospreay vs. SANADA

July 15 (B Block, Sapporo) --
Tetsuya Naito vs. Taichi
Jon Moxley vs. Jeff Cobb
Jay White vs. Tomohiro Ishii
Hirooki Goto vs. Juice Robinson
Shingo Takagi vs. Toru Yano

July 18 (A Block, Korakuen Hall, Tokyo) --
Kota Ibushi vs. Will Ospreay
EVIL vs. SANADA
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
Kazuchika Okada vs. Bad Luck Fale
KENTA vs. Lance Archer

July 19 (B Block, Korakuen Hall, Tokyo) --
Jon Moxley vs. Tomohiro Ishii
Shingo Takagi vs. Taichi
Tetsuya Naito vs. Hirooki Goto
Jay White vs. Toru Yano
Juice Robinson vs. Jeff Cobb

July 20 (A Block, Korakuen Hall, Tokyo) --
Kazuchika Okada vs. Will Ospreay
KENTA vs. EVIL
Kota Ibushi vs. SANADA
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Lance Archer
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Bad Luck Fale

July 24 (B Block, Hiroshima) --
Tetsuya Naito vs. Tomohiro Ishii
Jon Moxley vs. Shingo Takagi
Jay White vs. Jeff Cobb
Hirooki Goto vs. Taichi
Juice Robinson vs. Toru Yano

July 27 (A Block, Nagoya) --
Kazuchika Okada vs. KENTA
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. SANADA
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. EVIL
Will Ospreay vs. Bad Luck Fale
Kota Ibushi vs. Lance Archer

July 28 (B Block, Nagoya) --
Tetsuya Naito vs. Jon Moxley
Hirooki Goto vs. Toru Yano
Jay White vs. Shingo Takagi
Jeff Cobb vs. Taichi
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Juice Robinson

July 30 (A Block, Takamatsu) --
KENTA vs. SANADA
Will Ospreay vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. EVIL
Kazuchika Okada vs. Lance Archer
Kota Ibushi vs. Bad Luck Fale

August 1 (B Block, Fukuoka) --
Jay White vs. Taichi
Jon Moxley vs. Toru Yano
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Hirooki Goto
Tetsuya Naito vs. Juice Robinson
Shingo Takagi vs. Jeff Cobb

August 3 (A Block, Osaka) --
Kazuchika Okada vs. SANADA
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Kota Ibushi
Will Ospreay vs. EVIL
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Lance Archer
KENTA vs. Bad Luck Fale

August 4 (B Block, Osaka) --
Tetsuya Naito vs. Shingo Takagi
Jon Moxley vs. Jay White
Hirooki Goto vs. Jeff Cobb
Juice Robinson vs. Taichi
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Toru Yano

August 7 (A Block, Hamamatsu) --
Kazuchika Okada vs. EVIL
Will Ospreay vs. KENTA
Kota Ibushi vs. Zack Sabre Jr.
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Bad Luck Fale
SANADA vs. Lance Archer

August 8 (B Block, Yokohama) --
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Shingo Takagi
Toru Yano vs. Taichi
Jay White vs. Juice Robinson
Jon Moxley vs. Hirooki Goto
Tetsuya Naito vs. Jeff Cobb

August 10 (A Block, Budokan Hall, Tokyo) --
Kazuchika Okada vs. Kota Ibushi
Hiroshi Tanahashi vs. Will Ospreay
SANADA vs. Bad Luck Fale
EVIL vs. Lance Archer
KENTA vs. Zack Sabre Jr.

August 11 (B Block, Budokan Hall, Tokyo) --
Tetsuya Naito vs. Jay White
Jon Moxley vs. Juice Robinson
Jeff Cobb vs. Toru Yano
Hirooki Goto vs. Shingo Takagi
Tomohiro Ishii vs. Taichi

August 12 (Budokan Hall, Tokyo) --
A Block winner vs. B Block winner in the G1 finals

[cero2k]

I get to watch my first Okada vs Tanahashi live! and then Ibushi vs Kenta and SANADA vs Sabre!

[Serujuunin]

Well this saves me having to dig for the dates!

That’s coming up pretty quick actually.

[cero2k]

Well this saves me having to dig for the dates!

That’s coming up pretty quick actually.

here's a read for you in case you want to get a quick crash course on the tournament

https://www.cagesideseats.com/2019/6/16 ... -with-njpw

[Serujuunin]

Well this saves me having to dig for the dates!

That’s coming up pretty quick actually.

here's a read for you in case you want to get a quick crash course on the tournament

https://www.cagesideseats.com/2019/6/16 ... -with-njpw

This was amazing, thank you! It was like a “Previously on...” recap of a sitcom so now I kinda know what’s happening.

I’m glad it explained the stables too, that was something that was super confusing to me.

[Big Red Machine]

The stables are basically irrelevant. No one comes out to save each other and it doesn't rigidly define who is allowed to team with who the way it used to.

As for the blocks... block A should be great. Gedo's booking means we know that Block B will come down to Jay White vs. Naito.

That being said, I really don't see a scenario where Ibushi doesn't win this thing.

[Serujuunin]

The stables are basically irrelevant. No one comes out to save each other and it doesn't rigidly define who is allowed to team with who the way it used to.

So... what is the point to it then?

[Big Red Machine]

The stables are basically irrelevant. No one comes out to save each other and it doesn't rigidly define who is allowed to team with who the way it used to.

So... what is the point to it then?

As far as I can tell, it's Gedo attempting to silence his biggest critic by giving me an aneurysm.

They used to be very strict about people only teaming with people in their stable and never fighting each other- even if someone got a pinfall on the world champion- except in the big tournaments. But then when they decided to do the Bullet Club Civil War all of a sudden the "no fighting people in your stable" rule disappeared, and the "you can only team with people in your stable" rule went away soon afterwards with no explanation.
All of these rules were unwritten, but the change away from them was so abrupt it was impossible not to notice.

[Serujuunin]

The stables are basically irrelevant. No one comes out to save each other and it doesn't rigidly define who is allowed to team with who the way it used to.

So... what is the point to it then?

As far as I can tell, it's Gedo attempting to silence his biggest critic by giving me an aneurysm.

They used to be very strict about people only teaming with people in their stable and never fighting each other- even if someone got a pinfall on the world champion- except in the big tournaments. But then when they decided to do the Bullet Club Civil War all of a sudden the "no fighting people in your stable" rule disappeared, and the "you can only team with people in your stable" rule went away soon afterwards with no explanation.
All of these rules were unwritten, but the change away from them was so abrupt it was impossible not to notice.

That sounds like it would give me an aneurysm too lol

[cero2k]

As far as I can tell, it's Gedo attempting to silence his biggest critic by giving me an aneurysm.

They used to be very strict about people only teaming with people in their stable and never fighting each other- even if someone got a pinfall on the world champion- except in the big tournaments. But then when they decided to do the Bullet Club Civil War all of a sudden the "no fighting people in your stable" rule disappeared, and the "you can only team with people in your stable" rule went away soon afterwards with no explanation.
All of these rules were unwritten, but the change away from them was so abrupt it was impossible not to notice.

That sounds like it would give me an aneurysm too lol

that is really Red giving himself the aneurysm himself for wanting rules in wrestling. Reality is that Japanese wrestling has a tradition of packing up wrestlers by stables, they all do it. There isn't a rule that you can't fight stablemates, it just doesn't make sense to do so, Japan isn't like western cultures that it's all about "Me, me, me", they value loyalty, pride, and all that stuff, so stablemates are not going to be challenging each other, especially not for personal greed of a championship. It took a 'civil war' for a stable to have matches between each other.

As for teaming with people outside of their stable, it does have a reason and it only happens with CHAOS and the NJPW team. Jay White as leader of the Bullet Club antagonized both Okada and Tanahashi enough that they ended up joining forces and that trickled down to their respective stables, so now we get CHAOS and NJPW army teams sometimes. There are people like Ishii that doesn't like it, and there is people like Yano who gets to team up with his old buddies. There are many layers to everything that happens in NJPW. But when it comes to LIJ, Suzuki-Gun, and Bullet Club, they're not going to be teaming with each other, so again, it wasn't a rule, it just didn't make sense for them to team up until two teams found a common enemy, and it doesn't just propagate to the rest of the stables.

I'm way biased for NJPW and Red is way negative on NJPW, I suggest you ignore both of us and just watch and enjoy and see what you like. The youtube channel has a lot of videos about the history of stables and mini documentaries, I suggest you check them out if you wanna learn a bit more about new japan

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1lgJk ... /playlists

[Big Red Machine]

As far as I can tell, it's Gedo attempting to silence his biggest critic by giving me an aneurysm.

They used to be very strict about people only teaming with people in their stable and never fighting each other- even if someone got a pinfall on the world champion- except in the big tournaments. But then when they decided to do the Bullet Club Civil War all of a sudden the "no fighting people in your stable" rule disappeared, and the "you can only team with people in your stable" rule went away soon afterwards with no explanation.
All of these rules were unwritten, but the change away from them was so abrupt it was impossible not to notice.

That sounds like it would give me an aneurysm too lol

that is really Red giving himself the aneurysm himself for wanting rules in wrestling. Reality is that Japanese wrestling has a tradition of packing up wrestlers by stables, they all do it. There isn't a rule that you can't fight stablemates, it just doesn't make sense to do so, Japan isn't like western cultures that it's all about "Me, me, me", they value loyalty, pride, and all that stuff, so stablematesare not going to be challenging each other, especially not for personal greed of a championship.

The idea that the desire to win a championship is "greedy" is ridiculous. A championship is about personal pride and the validation of the years of hard work a wrestler has put in to his/her craft, and a wrestler who doesn't understand that is a heel. That's why babyfaces can have title matches against each other without anyone turning heel out of it.
If two MMA fighters are in the same division and one of them is the champion and the other got a bunch of wins, shouldn't a title match be scheduled between them? If the next person to win the candidates tournament for the World Chess Championship happens to be one of Magnus Carlsen's buddies, should he just forfeit the world championship match out of "loyalty?"

Why was this "loyalty" not a factor at King of Pro Wrestling last year when THREE GUYS FROM THE SAME STABLE faced off for the IWGP Heavyweight Title? And speaking of that match, all of the bullsh*t about Cody inserting himself into the match so that Kenny and Ibushi could technically keep their word about not having a nother singles match unless it was at the Tokyo Dome a false dilemma? After all, Omega pinned champion Okada in the 2017 G1 (after going Broadway with him in a title match, no less) and had to wait until next June to get a title shot, but Ibushi, who is not only in Omega's stable but also his best friend pins champion Omega in a G1 and yet he absolutely MUST have a title shot two months later?

The only answer to these questions is "because that's how Gedo wanted to book it," and when you're resorting to that answer it means that your story is being told poorly.

And this whole idea that "loyalty" prevents this from happening is completely contradicted by the insane lack of said loyalty that is shown every time people from the same stable don't come out to make the save for each other (which happens several times a show). How is it "loyalty" to refuse to engage in a professional sporting contest with your fellow when you have fairly earned one, but not extremely disloyal to sit on your ass and do nothing while your friend is being assaulted?

It took a 'civil war' for a stable to have matches between each other.

Except that's not what happened. When the first match was booked, the only real issue was between Kenny and Cody. There was a bit of an issue between Kenny and the Bucks (which should have been resolved within days but the Jackson's are too stubborn to watch the tape back, which makes it clear that Kenny had no ill intentions towards Matt). And yet what was the first tour of matches booked in the feud? Cody, Page, & Scurll vs. Kenny, Ibushi, & Chase Owens, and Cody & Scurll vs. Kenny & Chase Owens). I have no problem with Page (the only guy who had clearly taken a stand thus far, and was on Cody's side) and Ibushi (Kenny's buddy, and the guy they tried to attack) being in the match, but there was absolutely no reason for Scurll and Chase to be in the match. And don't even get me started on how ridiculous it was that the story of the matches was them making such a big deal out of Marty being reluctant to fight Kenny, but he (and his teammates, for that matter) has absolutely no problem beating the sh*t out of Chase Owens, who is in their stable and they have no issues with at all.
It wasn't that "it took a civil war for a stable to have matches between each other." What actually happened was that once they began doing the "civil war" angle, the rules about guys in the same stable not fighting each other disappeared for everyone in the stable, rather than just for the guys who had issues with each other. Those are MASSIVELY different things, and the latter is piss-poor storytelling.
Just because Cody, Kenny, and the Bucks are having issues with each other doesn't mean there is any reason to book the Bucks vs. Chase Owens and Yujiro. And how does it make sense that the Bucks were angry with Kenny for unknowingly pushing Matt down in a situation where just watching the tape back would have made the lack of ill-intent clear they get so pissy about it, but when Chase and Yujrio- who they have no issue with at all- jump them from behind (again targeting that same injured back) for absolutely no reason other than to win a wrestling match, they're able to be friends with them by the end? Where is your "loyalty" now?
How can you possibly have a spot at SCOH where the Bucks clearly meant to kick Cody, but just because the kick missed and hit Kenny instead they don't follow through on kicking Cody out of the group? And are even put on his f*cking team at the next big show to blow off the non-Kenny vs. Cody part of the feud? The simple fact that there is absolutely no way to sense of who was put on which team in that match (Dontaku: Day 2) should be all of the evidence anyone needs to understand why this feud made such little sense.

As amazing as the attention to detail in New Japan is on finishing sequences with their protection of moves and callbacks to other matches and breaking out old finishers, the attention to detail in most New Japan stories is piss-poor, and the fact that so many people who have crapped on WWE and TNA for such things are completely unwilling to acknowledge this drives me insane.

As for teaming with people outside of their stable, it does have a reason and it only happens with CHAOS and the NJPW team. Jay White as leader of the Bullet Club antagonized both Okada and Tanahashi enough that they ended up joining forces and that trickled down to their respective stables, so now we get CHAOS and NJPW army teams sometimes. There are people like Ishii that doesn't like it, and there is people like Yano who gets to team up with his old buddies. There are many layers to everything that happens in NJPW. But when it comes to LIJ, Suzuki-Gun, and Bullet Club, they're not going to be teaming with each other, so again, it wasn't a rule, it just didn't make sense for them to team up until two teams found a common enemy, and it doesn't just propagate to the rest of the stables.

The whole "common enemy" thing once again runs into the issue of the lack of saves and the lack of storyline follow-through. It's not guys coming together to solve the problem of some overwhelming heel force; it's five or six "I challenge you!" angles around titles, and every babyface not involved in those angles (which is about 80% of the roster at any given time) is just assigned to various tag matches by the company to fill out some random spot on the card. They have no agency.

Yano "gets to" team up with his old buddies, but not because there was any angle to bring him and Makabe back together. The bookers just decided between tours that Makabe would now be teaming with Yano instead of teaming with Honma, and so they got booked as a team for the next tour. That's not "layers." It's just pulling sh*t out of your ass. Changing things however you want by magically snapping your fingers isn't good storytelling.

I'm way biased for NJPW and Red is way negative on NJPW, I suggest you ignore both of us and just watch and enjoy and see what you like. The youtube channel has a lot of videos about the history of stables and mini documentaries, I suggest you check them out if you wanna learn a bit more about new japan

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1lgJk ... /playlists

New Japan's issues won't be exposed by the G1 because the G1 is just a round-robin tournament, and does not give you anything close to a whole picture of New Japan Creative. It'd be like judging WWE solely on the Royal Rumble. Becky winning was kind of cool, but anyone can book what they think is a cool moment. Vince Russo made a career of it. But then look at what WWE did with Becky the next few weeks.

[cero2k]

The idea that the desire to win a championship is "greedy" is ridiculous. A championship is about personal pride and the validation of the years of hard work a wrestler has put in to his/her craft, and a wrestler who doesn't understand that is a heel. That's why babyfaces can have title matches against each other without anyone turning heel out of it.
If two MMA fighters are in the same division and one of them is the champion and the other got a bunch of wins, shouldn't a title match be scheduled between them? If the next person to win the candidates tournament for the World Chess Championship happens to be one of Magnus Carlsen's buddies, should he just forfeit the world championship match out of "loyalty?"

yes, that has been the case in MMA with brothers or teammates not wanting to fight each other.

Why was this "loyalty" not a factor at King of Pro Wrestling last year when THREE GUYS FROM THE SAME STABLE faced off for the IWGP Heavyweight Title? And speaking of that match, all of the bullsh*t about Cody inserting himself into the match so that Kenny and Ibushi could technically keep their word about not having a nother singles match unless it was at the Tokyo Dome a false dilemma? After all, Omega pinned champion Okada in the 2017 G1 (after going Broadway with him in a title match, no less) and had to wait until next June to get a title shot, but Ibushi, who is not only in Omega's stable but also his best friend pins champion Omega in a G1 and yet he absolutely MUST have a title shot two months later?

The only answer to these questions is "because that's how Gedo wanted to book it," and when you're resorting to that answer it means that your story is being told poorly.

a 3-way with TWO FOREIGNERS. Americans are constantly putting personal pride and worth over loyalty. Don't expect a Japanese company to be booked with US ideals.
And why would Okada losing to Omega and Omega losing to Ibushi need to be treated the same? they're completely different people. Omega offered the title shot to Ibushi, Okada instead had to deal with EVIL. Whether you want to see it in kayfabe or not, it made zero sense to rush Omega vs Okada IV.

And this whole idea that "loyalty" prevents this from happening is completely contradicted by the insane lack of said loyalty that is shown every time people from the same stable don't come out to make the save for each other (which happens several times a show). How is it "loyalty" to refuse to engage in a professional sporting contest with your fellow when you have fairly earned one, but not extremely disloyal to sit on your ass and do nothing while your friend is being assaulted?

not coming out to save your friends doesn't negate loyalty. Stop assuming these are wimps that need saving, they're grown ass combat athletes that can take care of themselves, they're babyfaces that either overcome odds or lose to number's game. Where is the honor if you keep getting your ass saved all the time? I follow a fighter that overcomes odds, not a wimp that has a lot of friends.

Except that's not what happened. When the first match was booked, the only real issue was between Kenny and Cody. There was a bit of an issue between Kenny and the Bucks (which should have been resolved within days but the Jackson's are too stubborn to watch the tape back, which makes it clear that Kenny had no ill intentions towards Matt). And yet what was the first tour of matches booked in the feud? Cody, Page, & Scurll vs. Kenny, Ibushi, & Chase Owens, and Cody & Scurll vs. Kenny & Chase Owens). I have no problem with Page (the only guy who had clearly taken a stand thus far, and was on Cody's side) and Ibushi (Kenny's buddy, and the guy they tried to attack) being in the match, but there was absolutely no reason for Scurll and Chase to be in the match. And don't even get me started on how ridiculous it was that the story of the matches was them making such a big deal out of Marty being reluctant to fight Kenny, but he (and his teammates, for that matter) has absolutely no problem beating the sh*t out of Chase Owens, who is in their stable and they have no issues with at all.
It wasn't that "it took a civil war for a stable to have matches between each other." What actually happened was that once they began doing the "civil war" angle, the rules about guys in the same stable not fighting each other disappeared for everyone in the stable, rather than just for the guys who had issues with each other. Those are MASSIVELY different things, and the latter is piss-poor storytelling.
Just because Cody, Kenny, and the Bucks are having issues with each other doesn't mean there is any reason to book the Bucks vs. Chase Owens and Yujiro. And how does it make sense that the Bucks were angry with Kenny for unknowingly pushing Matt down in a situation where just watching the tape back would have made the lack of ill-intent clear they get so pissy about it, but when Chase and Yujrio- who they have no issue with at all- jump them from behind (again targeting that same injured back) for absolutely no reason other than to win a wrestling match, they're able to be friends with them by the end? Where is your "loyalty" now?
How can you possibly have a spot at SCOH where the Bucks clearly meant to kick Cody, but just because the kick missed and hit Kenny instead they don't follow through on kicking Cody out of the group? And are even put on his f*cking team at the next big show to blow off the non-Kenny vs. Cody part of the feud? The simple fact that there is absolutely no way to sense of who was put on which team in that match (Dontaku: Day 2) should be all of the evidence anyone needs to understand why this feud made such little sense.

As amazing as the attention to detail in New Japan is on finishing sequences with their protection of moves and callbacks to other matches and breaking out old finishers, the attention to detail in most New Japan stories is piss-poor, and the fact that so many people who have crapped on WWE and TNA for such things are completely unwilling to acknowledge this drives me insane.

I could really just put down a lot of this into you're judging a stable of foreigners like if they were a japanese stable. Bullet Club is a stable born out of deception and betrayals. Bullet Club has NEVER been about loyalty, ESPECIALLY if we want to analyze each wrestler's motivation towards every other wrestler in the stable. Why doesn't Scurll treat Omega and Chase the same? really? maybe because Scurll is a human being and likes Omega more than Chase? maybe because Chase doesn't hang out with the Elite as much? maybe because Omega is more popular and talented and Scurll (as the villain he's always been) rather rub off the talented person?
But the truth is, just re-read all that and realize how incredibly scrupulous you have to be to argue that an inter-stable match happened a few angles before it was coined a 'civil war'. Gedo should be fired for such atrocities. I mean, sure, he has booked the greatest wrestling/wrestlers we've seen in the last decade, but fuck him! He booked Bucks vs Chase and Yujiro!

The whole "common enemy" thing once again runs into the issue of the lack of saves and the lack of storyline follow-through. It's not guys coming together to solve the problem of some overwhelming heel force; it's five or six "I challenge you!" angles around titles, and every babyface not involved in those angles (which is about 80% of the roster at any given time) is just assigned to various tag matches by the company to fill out some random spot on the card. They have no agency.

Yano "gets to" team up with his old buddies, but not because there was any angle to bring him and Makabe back together. The bookers just decided between tours that Makabe would now be teaming with Yano instead of teaming with Honma, and so they got booked as a team for the next tour. That's not "layers." It's just pulling sh*t out of your ass. Changing things however you want by magically snapping your fingers isn't good storytelling.

I won't go over wimps needed saving all the time again, but if there is a truce between both stables, why would Yano need a storyline or angle to team with Makabe? They're two guys that used to team and now they find themselves on the same side and so they team again. Fans like the nostalgia of it and it gives something to do for both men. They're just a filler team, they don't need a storyline of their own. Not everyone needs to have their own story for it to be 'good storytelling'.

New Japan's issues won't be exposed by the G1 because the G1 is just a round-robin tournament, and does not give you anything close to a whole picture of New Japan Creative. It'd be like judging WWE solely on the Royal Rumble. Becky winning was kind of cool, but anyone can book what they think is a cool moment. Vince Russo made a career of it. But then look at what WWE did with Becky the next few weeks.

I bet you'll still find something to complain about the G1, just like I was able to point out tons of inconsistencies in the Rumble PPV alone. And I do think that both the G1 and the rumble are good small samples that reflect on the quality level of each promotion's booking.

Seru, if you're still reading after all of this, just watch the G1, if you like NJPW, keep watching. If you don't like it, then don't. No one should use their time on something they don't enjoy. no one claims perfection, but it's still, IMO, the best promotion out there right now

[Big Red Machine]

The idea that the desire to win a championship is "greedy" is ridiculous. A championship is about personal pride and the validation of the years of hard work a wrestler has put in to his/her craft, and a wrestler who doesn't understand that is a heel. That's why babyfaces can have title matches against each other without anyone turning heel out of it.
If two MMA fighters are in the same division and one of them is the champion and the other got a bunch of wins, shouldn't a title match be scheduled between them? If the next person to win the candidates tournament for the World Chess Championship happens to be one of Magnus Carlsen's buddies, should he just forfeit the world championship match out of "loyalty?"

yes, that has been the case in MMA with brothers or teammates not wanting to fight each other.

As far as I have heard, the only reason this doesn't happen in MMA is the fear of guys throwing fights for the benefit of the guy the gym thinks is mostly likely to win (and this apparently did happen on at least one early UFC show).
But if that's the case then those fighters don't have enough drive to become the champion. If Matt Riddle and Keith Lee can figure out how to have a clean world title match and remain friends afterwards then why can't Okada and Ishii. If Ishii wins the G1 and when Jan 4 comes and Okada is the IWGP Heavyweight Champion and Ospreay is IWGP Intercontinental Champion, what do you want Ishii to do? Eat the contract? Give up the chance to win the main event of the biggest show of the year?

Why was this "loyalty" not a factor at King of Pro Wrestling last year when THREE GUYS FROM THE SAME STABLE faced off for the IWGP Heavyweight Title? And speaking of that match, all of the bullsh*t about Cody inserting himself into the match so that Kenny and Ibushi could technically keep their word about not having a nother singles match unless it was at the Tokyo Dome a false dilemma? After all, Omega pinned champion Okada in the 2017 G1 (after going Broadway with him in a title match, no less) and had to wait until next June to get a title shot, but Ibushi, who is not only in Omega's stable but also his best friend pins champion Omega in a G1 and yet he absolutely MUST have a title shot two months later?

The only answer to these questions is "because that's how Gedo wanted to book it," and when you're resorting to that answer it means that your story is being told poorly.

a 3-way with TWO FOREIGNERS. Americans are constantly putting personal pride and worth over loyalty. Don't expect a Japanese company to be booked with US ideals.

Except that the challenger in the originally scheduled match was KOTA IBUSHI. Cody was only able to talk himself into the match because Ibushi and Omega had promised each other that they wouldn't wrestle again unless it was the main event of the Tokyo Dome. They're best friends and their f*cking dream is to fight each other in a match that is almost by definition for a championship. And New Japan has never presented this as anything other than a complete and total babyface desire on both men's part.
And Omega doesn't even count as a gaijin anymore. NJPW wouldn't have booked him as a top babyface if they did think fans viewed him as a Funk or Hansen style "honorary Japanese" wrestler.

And why would Okada losing to Omega and Omega losing to Ibushi need to be treated the same? they're completely different people. Omega offered the title shot to Ibushi, Okada instead had to deal with EVIL.

Both are a case of the champ getting pinned in the G1. Your argument is that wrestlers in the same stable don't challenge for each other's championships- even if they have earned a title shot- of out loyalty. I have provided an example of the same exact situation occurring (challenger pins champion in G1, leading to title shot), but the the case where the challenger was not in the champion's stable he had to wait ten months to get a title match while in the case where the champion and challenger were in the same stable, he had to wait less than two months. If your "loyalty" theory was correct, Ibushi should have said "I'm sorry, Kenny, but you are my friend and stablemate and therefore I cannot accept your challenge, because that's not how we Japanese wrestlers do things." But that didn't happen. Kota was all gung-ho for the match, with his own regret being that it wasn't happening on a bigger show.

You say Okada needed to face EVIL first? Fine. Then why did Tanahashi, who only went to a draw with a champ in a G1 match- get a title shot before Kenny, who actually beat the champion? Why wasn't Okada's defense against Kenny scheduled for either Destruction (where he didn't defend the title) or for Power Struggle (where he didn't defend the title)? Why did Sanada get a title shot four months before Kenny finally got his title shot for pinning Okada in the G1?
And all of that is ignoring the fact that Kenny should have been owed a title shot even before that because he went to a time-limit draw with the champion in a title match.

Whether you want to see it in kayfabe or not, it made zero sense to rush Omega vs Okada IV.

First of all, I would hardly consider doing the EVIL defense in September and the Omega defense in October "rushing" to a third match, but either way, the problem is that the kayfabe integrity of the championship requires that an outstanding pinfall of the champion be satisfied. How are we supposed to see Okada as the best wrestler in the world if we just saw him fail to beat Kenny Omega within sixty minutes, and then lose to Kenny in less than thirty?

And if you don't like that reason then here is another one for you: It makes perfect kayfabe sense to "rush" to Okada vs. Omega IV because if Okada were to lose the belt to someone before you got to book Omega vs. Okada then there goes your big-money fight. This is exactly what happened the Women's Bantamweight Title. Tate vs. Penne from July 2015 was originally pushed as a #1 contendership fight, but then Dana decided that he want to hold off a bit longer (he was probably aiming for UFC 200) so instead of booking Rousey vs. Tate III he booked Ronda against some tomato can no one had ever heard of named Holly Holm, and the rest is history.

The only reason the match wasn't booked until Dominion the next year was because Gedo wanted to do Okada vs. Omega IV at Dominion 2018. And when the only answer is "because the booker wanted it this way," that's bad storytelling.

A good booker would have come up with a reason for Omega's focus to be elsewhere, like some sort of blood feud. Otherwise, from a kayfabe point of view, you can't explain why Kenny never came after an Okada title defense and say "me next!"
But hey. You can't blame Gedo. It's not like he has total control over all of the storylines.

And this whole idea that "loyalty" prevents this from happening is completely contradicted by the insane lack of said loyalty that is shown every time people from the same stable don't come out to make the save for each other (which happens several times a show). How is it "loyalty" to refuse to engage in a professional sporting contest with your fellow when you have fairly earned one, but not extremely disloyal to sit on your ass and do nothing while your friend is being assaulted?

not coming out to save your friends doesn't negate loyalty. Stop assuming these are wimps that need saving, they're grown ass combat athletes that can take care of themselves, they're babyfaces that either overcome odds or lose to number's game. Where is the honor if you keep getting your ass saved all the time? I follow a fighter that overcomes odds, not a wimp that has a lot of friends.

So by your own logic here in this segment, Kenny Omega was was being disloyal to Kota Ibushi when he stopped Cody from beating him up with a chair.

The honor is in preventing dishonorable conduct by another party.
But even if you don't like that answer, your argument still doesn't stand up to scrutiny because the young-boys and referees all run in and try to break up these post-match assaults, while the announcers scream about how "someone has to do something about this!" (And don't even try to give me any "their the English announcers, they don't get it, either" bullsh*t because if that's true then Gedo is still a bad booker because he is making no effort to explain the way things work to the new audience he's trying to tap into).
And half of the time someone does come out to make the save. The problem is that the person making the save is determined by who has a match with one of heels in the beat-down at the end of the tour rather than by any sort of relationship to the assaulted wrestler.

Except that's not what happened. When the first match was booked, the only real issue was between Kenny and Cody. There was a bit of an issue between Kenny and the Bucks (which should have been resolved within days but the Jackson's are too stubborn to watch the tape back, which makes it clear that Kenny had no ill intentions towards Matt). And yet what was the first tour of matches booked in the feud? Cody, Page, & Scurll vs. Kenny, Ibushi, & Chase Owens, and Cody & Scurll vs. Kenny & Chase Owens). I have no problem with Page (the only guy who had clearly taken a stand thus far, and was on Cody's side) and Ibushi (Kenny's buddy, and the guy they tried to attack) being in the match, but there was absolutely no reason for Scurll and Chase to be in the match. And don't even get me started on how ridiculous it was that the story of the matches was them making such a big deal out of Marty being reluctant to fight Kenny, but he (and his teammates, for that matter) has absolutely no problem beating the sh*t out of Chase Owens, who is in their stable and they have no issues with at all.
It wasn't that "it took a civil war for a stable to have matches between each other." What actually happened was that once they began doing the "civil war" angle, the rules about guys in the same stable not fighting each other disappeared for everyone in the stable, rather than just for the guys who had issues with each other. Those are MASSIVELY different things, and the latter is piss-poor storytelling.
Just because Cody, Kenny, and the Bucks are having issues with each other doesn't mean there is any reason to book the Bucks vs. Chase Owens and Yujiro. And how does it make sense that the Bucks were angry with Kenny for unknowingly pushing Matt down in a situation where just watching the tape back would have made the lack of ill-intent clear they get so pissy about it, but when Chase and Yujrio- who they have no issue with at all- jump them from behind (again targeting that same injured back) for absolutely no reason other than to win a wrestling match, they're able to be friends with them by the end? Where is your "loyalty" now?
How can you possibly have a spot at SCOH where the Bucks clearly meant to kick Cody, but just because the kick missed and hit Kenny instead they don't follow through on kicking Cody out of the group? And are even put on his f*cking team at the next big show to blow off the non-Kenny vs. Cody part of the feud? The simple fact that there is absolutely no way to sense of who was put on which team in that match (Dontaku: Day 2) should be all of the evidence anyone needs to understand why this feud made such little sense.

As amazing as the attention to detail in New Japan is on finishing sequences with their protection of moves and callbacks to other matches and breaking out old finishers, the attention to detail in most New Japan stories is piss-poor, and the fact that so many people who have crapped on WWE and TNA for such things are completely unwilling to acknowledge this drives me insane.

I could really just put down a lot of this into you're judging a stable of foreigners like if they were a japanese stable. Bullet Club is a stable born out of deception and betrayals. Bullet Club has NEVER been about loyalty, ESPECIALLY if we want to analyze each wrestler's motivation towards every other wrestler in the stable. Why doesn't Scurll treat Omega and Chase the same? really? maybe because Scurll is a human being and likes Omega more than Chase? maybe because Chase doesn't hang out with the Elite as much? maybe because Omega is more popular and talented and Scurll (as the villain he's always been) rather rub off the talented person?

You're missing my point entirely! The actions of the characters are completely inconsistent, even if we look at it through tour bogus "loyalty" framework. If, as you say, "Bullet Club is not about loyalty" and thus it is okay for Chase and Yujiro to jump the Jacksons from behind and work over Matt's injured back, then why is it NOT okay for Kenny or Cody to shove Matt down (especially in a situation where it was a clear misunderstanding rather than a premeditated and malicious action)?
If loyalty is irrelevant in Bullet Club then why were we supposed to be angry at the Tongans for beating everyone up when they turned on them? Why is that wrong but Chase and Yujiro attacking the Bucks from behind okay?

If Scurll can be a complex character who likes some guys in the stable more than others, why can't Okada and Ishii? Why can't Ishii say "I love you like a brother, buddy... but my dream is to be the IWGP Heavyweight Champion and I don't think I could live with myself if I didn't take my best shot to win it?"

But the truth is, just re-read all that and realize how incredibly scrupulous you have to be to argue that an inter-stable match happened a few angles before it was coined a 'civil war'. Gedo should be fired for such atrocities. I mean, sure, he has booked the greatest wrestling/wrestlers we've seen in the last decade, but fuck him! He booked Bucks vs Chase and Yujiro!

Once again you are completely missing my point. You claimed that

It took a 'civil war' for a stable to have matches between each other.

But the first match booked involved someone who wasn't involved in any of the in-fighting! To extend the Civil War metaphor, this would be like Cap and Iron Man having their initial verbal argument, and then Ms. Marvel randomly going over and punching Luke Cage in the face. When the first match was booked it was a small series of spats involving a few people, with no clear "sides" over than Cody and Page being on the same side, and against Kenny. If your claim is true than the match should be a result of a clear conflict between the all of the participants. Chase Owens was in conflict with absolutely no one, but was booked in that match because they didn't want to beat anyone else.
A good story is made up of events that follow logically from one to the next, building to a desired endpoint. The Bullet Club Civil War was events being booked in service of a common endpoint, but they did not follow logically from one to the next. A good story would be "we want to have a Bullet Club Civil War, so we are going to give the wrestlers in this stable reason to fight each other." What we got was "we want to have a Bullet Club Civil War so we're going to book a bunch of Bullet Club vs. Bullet Club matches" without giving us a reason for a good chunk of the match-ups we got to make sense. It was guys fighting each other for the sake of fighting each other, which begs the question of why it didn't happen before, to which the only answer is "because Gedo didn't want to book it yet," which is an inherent admittance that the storyline is bad because there is on storyline explanation for it.

Sure, NJPW has a great roster, but so does WWE right now: Rollins, AJ, Bryan, Joe, McIntyre, Andrade, Ricochet, Cesaro, War Machine, Steen, Generico, Balor, Nakamura, Revival, Usos, Rusev, Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, Bayley, Nattie, Ember Moon, Orton, Cedric Alexander, Mustafa Ali, Jeff Hardy, Ziggler, Kofi, Lesnar, Lio Rush, Kalisto, Gran Metalik, Lince Dorado, Buddy Murphy, Gallows, Anderson, Tyler Breeze, Bobby Roode, Ruby Riott, Apollo Crews, Chad Gable, Nikki Cross, Damo, Asuka, Kairi Sane, Bobby Lashley, Luke Harper. And that's not even touching NXT, NXT UK or 205 Live, or getting into people whose overall talent level is hotly debated (Roman, Cena, Bliss, Lars), or recent departures like Moxley.

But everyone craps on Vince when he tells his stories poorly. I see no reason why Gedo should not also be subject to criticism when his stories don't make sense.

I mean, sure, he has booked the greatest wrestling/wrestlers we've seen in the last decade, but fuck him! He booked Bucks vs Chase and Yujiro!

This sentence right here reveals the heart of the matter. Current New Japan is the Attitude Era all over again, and a ****+ match is the equivalent of Austin hitting the stunner and drinking beer at the end of the show. That's all people remember about things and so they look back fondly on them. And if you want to be a workrate fan then that's fine, but then just say you don't care about storylines instead of coming up with this convoluted logic to convince yourself that a poorly-told story is actually great. Don't try to tell me that the actual stories in New Japan make sense and are told well when most of the time they are not. Great matches and well-constructed storylines are not mutually exclusive, so there is no reason to give someone a pass on

The whole "common enemy" thing once again runs into the issue of the lack of saves and the lack of storyline follow-through. It's not guys coming together to solve the problem of some overwhelming heel force; it's five or six "I challenge you!" angles around titles, and every babyface not involved in those angles (which is about 80% of the roster at any given time) is just assigned to various tag matches by the company to fill out some random spot on the card. They have no agency.

Yano "gets to" team up with his old buddies, but not because there was any angle to bring him and Makabe back together. The bookers just decided between tours that Makabe would now be teaming with Yano instead of teaming with Honma, and so they got booked as a team for the next tour. That's not "layers." It's just pulling sh*t out of your ass. Changing things however you want by magically snapping your fingers isn't good storytelling.

I won't go over wimps needed saving all the time again, but if there is a truce between both stables, why would Yano need a storyline or angle to team with Makabe? They're two guys that used to team and now they find themselves on the same side and so they team again. Fans like the nostalgia of it and it gives something to do for both men. They're just a filler team, they don't need a storyline of their own. Not everyone needs to have their own story for it to be 'good storytelling'.

It needs an angle because not having one begs the question of why they didn't reform their team before. The stables have been aligned for a while now. Doing an angle creates an event that serves as a logical impetus for a reunion, just like Omega and Ibushi did. And if you're worried about giving people something to do, doing an angle to lead to reforming the team gives them something to do for longer than just reforming the team cold turkey does.

And the "they teamed up to fight the heels" thing doesn't explain why we have gotten matches like Tanahashi, Okada, & Yano vs. Cabana, Mikey Nicholls, & Taguchi (NJPW Cup, Day 5). Why are we getting a match that is 2 TJ and 1 CHAOS vs. 2 CHAOS and 1 TJ? There is no evil enemy to team up against in that scenario.

New Japan's issues won't be exposed by the G1 because the G1 is just a round-robin tournament, and does not give you anything close to a whole picture of New Japan Creative. It'd be like judging WWE solely on the Royal Rumble. Becky winning was kind of cool, but anyone can book what they think is a cool moment. Vince Russo made a career of it. But then look at what WWE did with Becky the next few weeks.

I bet you'll still find something to complain about the G1, just like I was able to point out tons of inconsistencies in the Rumble PPV alone. And I do think that both the G1 and the rumble are good small samples that reflect on the quality level of each promotion's booking.
Seru, if you're still reading after all of this, just watch the G1, if you like NJPW, keep watching. If you don't like it, then don't. No one should use their time on something they don't enjoy. no one claims perfection, but it's still, IMO, the best promotion out there right now

I disagree. The G1 is full of champions doing jobs that often don't lead anywhere, which is not typical for New Japan, and in general certain guys are less protected in the G1 for either the necessity of the keeping things interesting or the trope of the surprise upset. Tanahashi isn't jobbing to Tama Tonga at any other point in the year.

I'll agree that the Rumble has become a sort of embodiment of WWE's booking ethos, but I don't think a first-time viewer would realize that. Just like us experienced G1 viewers have learned not to read anything into it if Makabe is given a win over Ibushi, I think you have to have seen multiple Rumbles to understand that this "Wrestler X has lasted for thirty-five minutes!" stuff or the loophole rule spots aren't as important or cool or exciting as they seem because the first time you see it you- by definition- don't have the experience to realize that it's actually a placeholder trope they use every year in lieu of an actual story.

In short, I think the G1 is often New Japan with it's best qualities at their peak and it worst qualities at their most reduced. That's not an accurate portrayal of the promotion, but rather the rosiest one possible.

Also, for the record, the things you were pointing out about the Rumble- just like the things I will almost certainly dislike about the G1- are not inconsistencies. They do not contradict the stated rules of the universe. You can not like the loophole rule, but calling it "inconsistent" is unfair, as it is, in fact, applied in a consistent manner. Similarly, I can advocate for there being DQs in three-ways, but within the rules of most promotions, three-ways are no DQs matches, and thus the matches need to be judged in that mindset.

The things that bug me about matches and storylines are when things are not actually applied consistently (like DQ and count-out rules). Inconsistencies are what make stories bad. I hate the fact that Yano pinned Omega in the G1 last year, but that doesn't mean that I don't think Yano should have been given a title shot off of it. If you don't want to do it in Japan then do it in RevPro or ROH or CMLL, but I think it needs to happen because that adds integrity to the storylines.

[Serujuunin]

Oh lord what have I started lol

[cero2k]

Oh lord what have I started lol

it's not your fault, it's my and Red's nature to argue about everything

[Big Red Machine]

Oh lord what have I started lol

it's not your fault, it's my and Red's nature to argue about everything

One of these days one of our debates is going to surpass that one I had with SONIC.