Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

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Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Bob-O » Jun 19th, '18, 07:29

Source: iwnerd.com

Triple H was interviewed by various outlets after NXT Takeover: Chicago was over. He was asked by Wrestling INC how he deals with some of his NXT talent not translating after getting called up to the WWE main roster. Over the years we have seen several Superstars and tag teams not find the same success that they had in NXT on RAW or Smackdown.

Here is what Triple H had to say:

“I think that comes down to anything right? You try to prep them, you try to give them the tools, you try to give them everything you can so they can succeed on the main roster. But the truth is if you believe that everyone who gets called up will become ‘the guy’ or ‘the girl’ or the next big thing it’s kind of an unrealistic expectation.

“There’s this weird thing in the business I feel like that happened. I’m not really sure how it happened where if you didn’t become the champion or you didn’t become the John Cena character you robbed this guy’s career like I don’t recall Roddy Piper being ‘the guy.’ Like I could go down a list of who’s who of Hall Of Fame performers that some could make arguments that they were the best in the world or the best at what they did at that moment in time or their all-time favorite character that never got past the middle card if you look at it honestly, right? Today you would look at those people and say ‘oh my God this Hall Of Fame worthy career I can’t believe it took them this long to put them in the Hall Of Fame.’ But the truth is if you went back and looked at it today you would have said: ‘ah he’s midcard for life man’ or ‘they screwed him and never gave him his spot.’ I don’t know how that changed and became the thing.

“Not everybody is gonna be ‘the guy’ and not everybody’s gonna be ‘the girl’ not everybody is gonna be the champ and it’s not about, ‘well they should get their turn that’s just the funniest thing of all time it’s like saying you should get a participation medal. That isn’t it at all.”

“There’s no ‘deserve’, everybody works hard. I hear that sometimes it’s like ‘oh he’s the hardest working guy in the business.’ I don’t know anybody on our roster that doesn’t work hard. Well, I do actually […] but there’s a lot of people who do work hard. Most of them, 99% of them work their asses off day in, day out just like everybody else does and they’re proud of that and they work hard for it and they should be excited and rewarded for successful careers. To me, making it to the WWE is the ‘wow.’ Being successful, making it to the main roster you know making it to these TakeOvers, ‘wow.’ Making it to the main roster, ‘wow’ and being there for a long period of time. Successfully doing it, not getting injured, making money for your family taking care of your family for generations like all that is ‘wow’ and phenomenal and that is success.”
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by cero2k » Jun 19th, '18, 09:59

...and then there's bad booking and not capitalizing on momentum and people's strength. coughEnzoCassAmericanAlphaBayleyRevivalcough
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 19th, '18, 11:05

Yeah, he basically completely avoided the question.
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Bob-O » Jun 19th, '18, 20:59

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 19th, '18, 11:05 Yeah, he basically completely avoided the question.
The answer to the question is obvious, c'mon... he knows it, everyone knows it. What concerns me about the interview, is that while avoiding addressing the problem, he throws the talent under the bus instead of literally ANYTHING else that could apply. I know he's new to this, but you don't shit where you eat.

Especially when you have room to be defensive! Considering how many NXT alums make up weekly TV, I think you can make a better case for yourself than "meh... we do everything we can for these guys, but not everybody is going to be the next 'John Cena'..." But, you could at least tout your successes on the main roster (Balor, Joe, Nakamura, Charlotte, Asuke...). I'd personally like to point out that I get up to take a piss every single time No Way Jose is on my television. He wrestled Mojo Rawley a few weeks ago and I drank extra water in preparation for the 5 minute piss-fest.

Beyond The Revival and The Ascension... both of whom I never cared for anyway... there really haven't been many surprises in call ups...

Bailey I might make a case for, but she's still on TV almost every week. But, did anyone really expect Adam Rose to be the "next John Cena"? Bobby Roode is a terrible babyface, yes, but even in heel form is he reeeeeally somebody you see a top WWE title on? They find time for Billie fucking Kay every single week, and she looks like a pie.

The issue isn't talent, it's opportunity vs narrative.
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 19th, '18, 22:42

Bob-O wrote: Jun 19th, '18, 20:59
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 19th, '18, 11:05 Yeah, he basically completely avoided the question.
The answer to the question is obvious, c'mon... he knows it, everyone knows it. What concerns me about the interview, is that while avoiding addressing the problem, he throws the talent under the bus instead of literally ANYTHING else that could apply. I know he's new to this, but you don't shit where you eat.

Especially when you have room to be defensive! Considering how many NXT alums make up weekly TV, I think you can make a better case for yourself than "meh... we do everything we can for these guys, but not everybody is going to be the next 'John Cena'..." But, you could at least tout your successes on the main roster (Balor, Joe, Nakamura, Charlotte, Asuke...). I'd personally like to point out that I get up to take a piss every single time No Way Jose is on my television. He wrestled Mojo Rawley a few weeks ago and I drank extra water in preparation for the 5 minute piss-fest.

Beyond The Revival and The Ascension... both of whom I never cared for anyway... there really haven't been many surprises in call ups...

Bailey I might make a case for, but she's still on TV almost every week. But, did anyone really expect Adam Rose to be the "next John Cena"? Bobby Roode is a terrible babyface, yes, but even in heel form is he reeeeeally somebody you see a top WWE title on? They find time for Billie fucking Kay every single week, and she looks like a pie.

The issue isn't talent, it's opportunity vs narrative.
- Roode as a top guy in WWE? I can totally see that. He cuts fine promos, is tall, has muscles, and pretends to be rich. That's totally someone Vince would latch onto.
- Becky certainly has to be considered a disappointment in terms of her basically being the forgotten horsewoman, first out-shined by Alexa, then then having what should have been the division she was carrying built around Charlotte and Naomi instead, and Naomi only because WWE found a dumb catchphrase to give her.
- There was also American Alpha, who were given the tag titles for a while but without any thought put into them, then broken up and Gable turned into a flop despite being one of (if not the) most talented home-grown guys WWE has had.
-There was Emma, who was super-over as an NXT babyface and then got turned into Mrs. Santino, was sent down to NXT again and transformed herself into an excellent heel who was once again brought up and then totally ruined.
- Sami Zayn could be similarly categorized basically any time he's not feuding with Kevin Owens.
- There was Apollo Crews, who was at least over as a babyface in NXT although NXT didn't really have time to establish him as a top act, who has been a total jobber 80% f his tenure on the main roster.
- There are the Lucha Dragons (and Kalisto in particular) who should have been something exciting and different than anything else WWE had going on and both basically became jobbers.
- There's Tyler Breeze, who was an excellent upper-midcard heel in NXT and who was turned into a total comedy jobber the moment he got to the main roster.
- People didn't expect Adam Rose and Bo Dallas would be big stars, but they didn't expect them to be turned into total jokes, either. Let's not forget that Bo was a perfectly reasonable NXT Champion.

And that's not including people like Dana Brooke who weren't ready to be called up but WWE called them up anyway and then either ruined what little they had going (Dana Brooke) or just failed to make any strides with them (Corbin, Sonya Deville, arguably Carmella for a time, plus Lana when they tried to split her and Rusev up) and thus WWE hurt them by taking them out of NXT before they were ready).

Also, with cases like The Revival and particularly The Ascension, you have to look at the degree of the failure. The Ascension were the longest-reigning NXT Tag Team Champions of all time... and were jobbers within on month of being on the main roster.

And the truly sad part is that in basically all of these cases, the problem was the main roster writers and/or Vince/whoever had Vince's ear at the time. They were all called up as products that were at the very least perfectly fine, and they proceeded to completely ruin them, either by giving up in two weeks and just booking them into the ground or by insisting on trying to "fix" something that wasn't broken and taking away part of what made the character work.
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Bob-O » Jun 20th, '18, 18:13

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 19th, '18, 22:42 - Roode as a top guy in WWE? I can totally see that. He cuts fine promos, is tall, has muscles, and pretends to be rich. That's totally someone Vince would latch onto.
- Becky certainly has to be considered a disappointment in terms of her basically being the forgotten horsewoman, first out-shined by Alexa, then then having what should have been the division she was carrying built around Charlotte and Naomi instead, and Naomi only because WWE found a dumb catchphrase to give her.
- There was also American Alpha, who were given the tag titles for a while but without any thought put into them, then broken up and Gable turned into a flop despite being one of (if not the) most talented home-grown guys WWE has had.
-There was Emma, who was super-over as an NXT babyface and then got turned into Mrs. Santino, was sent down to NXT again and transformed herself into an excellent heel who was once again brought up and then totally ruined.
- Sami Zayn could be similarly categorized basically any time he's not feuding with Kevin Owens.
- There was Apollo Crews, who was at least over as a babyface in NXT although NXT didn't really have time to establish him as a top act, who has been a total jobber 80% f his tenure on the main roster.
- There are the Lucha Dragons (and Kalisto in particular) who should have been something exciting and different than anything else WWE had going on and both basically became jobbers.
- There's Tyler Breeze, who was an excellent upper-midcard heel in NXT and who was turned into a total comedy jobber the moment he got to the main roster.
- People didn't expect Adam Rose and Bo Dallas would be big stars, but they didn't expect them to be turned into total jokes, either. Let's not forget that Bo was a perfectly reasonable NXT Champion.
Like I said, no surprises. Roode got a secondary title run, he's featured on tv often, and I think that's fair for an aging TNA guy. Vince has NEVER been good at handling tag teams, he's always seen it as "paying two guys to do the job of one". Gable would do phenominaly on the indies, but he's short and he can't do a promo. Kalisto didn't have anyone to work with, now that he does on 205, I don't think he's doing so bad. NXT Sami Zayn wasn't going to work on the main roster, they tried it and it was dead silent in those buildings. Anyone that didn't know Generico (95% of WWE Universe) wasn't going to get behind Zayn. Today he's THRIVING as a heel! Apollo Crews WAS over as a babyface in NXT, but nobody can really explain why...

I mean, we could go back and forth for days about it (and honestly, I hope we do!), but the point I was trying to make was that instead of putting his guys over to make his point... "Hey, they might have made a few bad calls with a few of my guys and gals, but when you consider how large our talent pool has become and how much TV time we have each week, I'd say just getting your face out there is winning right now. When you consider how much the product overall has improved since we started NXT, I'd say we've been pretty successful at what we set out to do.!"... he put it on them. I'd agree with everything else he said if he didn't imply the talent was in any way accountable for their success. "Not everyone is going to be the next Jinder Mahal..." is what he should be saying.
Bob-O wrote: Jun 19th, '18, 07:29 “I think that comes down to anything right? You try to prep them, you try to give them the tools, you try to give them everything you can so they can succeed on the main roster. But the truth is if you believe that everyone who gets called up will become ‘the guy’ or ‘the girl’ or the next big thing it’s kind of an unrealistic expectation.
But we SHOULD believe that! Shouldn't we? Isn't that the whole point? Shouldn't EVERYBODY be competing to be in the main event? Working their way up the card? Whether they DO or not is different, but yeah... when somebody get's called up, when there's a fresh face on my TV, I should BELIEVE that it's realistic for them to work their way up the card until they prove me wrong! Bo Dallas flopped, not because he didn't use the "tools" they gave him, but because his tools sucked! They were never ever going to work on the main roster, and it was painfully obvious before he was called up. The Ascension were strait up given the wrong tools. It worked on NXT, but why in the world would they think two average sized guys would get over on the main roster with that gimmick!? Don't say you gave them the tools to succeed on the main roster, because you absolutely didn't!
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 20th, '18, 18:45

Bob-O wrote: Jun 20th, '18, 18:13

I mean, we could go back and forth for days about it (and honestly, I hope we do!), but the point I was trying to make was that instead of putting his guys over to make his point... "Hey, they might have made a few bad calls with a few of my guys and gals, but when you consider how large our talent pool has become and how much TV time we have each week, I'd say just getting your face out there is winning right now. When you consider how much the product overall has improved since we started NXT, I'd say we've been pretty successful at what we set out to do.!"... he put it on them. I'd agree with everything else he said if he didn't imply the talent was in any way accountable for their success. "Not everyone is going to be the next Jinder Mahal..." is what he should be saying.
Bob-O wrote: Jun 19th, '18, 07:29 “I think that comes down to anything right? You try to prep them, you try to give them the tools, you try to give them everything you can so they can succeed on the main roster. But the truth is if you believe that everyone who gets called up will become ‘the guy’ or ‘the girl’ or the next big thing it’s kind of an unrealistic expectation.
But we SHOULD believe that! Shouldn't we? Isn't that the whole point? Shouldn't EVERYBODY be competing to be in the main event? Working their way up the card? Whether they DO or not is different, but yeah... when somebody get's called up, when there's a fresh face on my TV, I should BELIEVE that it's realistic for them to work their way up the card until they prove me wrong! Bo Dallas flopped, not because he didn't use the "tools" they gave him, but because his tools sucked! They were never ever going to work on the main roster, and it was painfully obvious before he was called up. The Ascension were strait up given the wrong tools. It worked on NXT, but why in the world would they think two average sized guys would get over on the main roster with that gimmick!? Don't say you gave them the tools to succeed on the main roster, because you absolutely didn't!
Yes and no. There are some people who it really isn't realistic to believe will be big stars anywhere with the NXT gimmicks they have. No Way Jose is a lifetime opening match babyface gimmick. Levis Valenzuela Jr. might have the talent in him and he might not but as long as he remains No Way Jose he will be stuck in the same place he is now. And there are some guys for whom that is fine, and they're happier with the guaranteed paycheck, likely longevity, and avoiding the pressure of main event level work.
Bo is an odd one simply because what the gimmick became only really works well if you've organically gotten sick of the guy as a babyface first, which is what happened in NXT. On the main roster, he was just introduced as a small tweak on annoying Bo, and thus there was no real fun or satisfaction in chanting "Bo, LEAVE!" and pointing to the exit the way there was in NXT.
The Ascension should have had no problem getting over on the main roster. They had a cool entrance and they obliterated people. When they got to the main roster Vince & Co gave them dumb face-paint, tried to give them dumb catchphrases, and had them get beaten up by the APAARP.
The definition of "tools" you are using (the skills learned in NXT) should theoretically work for anyone, yes, but what I think Hunter is doing here is basically trying to avoid criticizing Vince by answering a slightly different question.

As for the "letting everyone work their way up the card" thing, we should be, but WWE's booking style doesn't allow for that. If you look at, say, Gabe-booked ROH, then yeah, pretty much everyone was at some point built up for a title shot. But WWE's people either don't have the ability or don't have the desire to do that. They prefer having their card extremely stratified.
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Bob-O » Jun 23rd, '18, 11:11

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 20th, '18, 18:45 There are some people who it really isn't realistic to believe will be big stars anywhere with the NXT gimmicks they have. No Way Jose is a lifetime opening match babyface gimmick. Levis Valenzuela Jr. might have the talent in him and he might not but as long as he remains No Way Jose he will be stuck in the same place he is now
You're right, it's not realistic, but speaking from a kayfabe sense it's supposed to be realistic. They're really bad at this, but while people's places in the grand scheme of things are obvious and the champion hasn't even been seen in months, it should be assumed that everyone is there with one goal in mind. If we're supposed to believe that 2/3rds of the people featured on their shows are just there to be filler, then what's the point of tuning in? If we're to believe that No Way Jose showed up to work to make the kids laugh and the drunk guys dance and, kayfabe now, that's his whole purpose in life then seriously, wtf are we doing for 5 hours a week?

From a non-kayfabe sense, I was shocked when Elias started pissing around in the upper mid-card, I had him locked as an opener for life. It's reminiscent of that ridiculous white rapper that somehow got into the main event and his own spinner title. But in kayfabe, it all makes sense because that's what they're there for.
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 20th, '18, 18:45 The Ascension should have had no problem getting over on the main roster. They had a cool entrance and they obliterated people.
I knew right away they wouldn't fly on the main roster because they're not big enough (The Bar, The Bludgeon Brothers) to be obliterating people and they're not skilled enough to obliterating the smaller teams. It worked on NXT because they could hide it, but Konner (the bigger one) wasn't even 250lbs when they were called up. They were not given the tools needed to succeed on the main roster, they were given the tools needed to succeed in developmental.

That's the thing with NXT. Some of the guys are being developed for the main roster, and some of the guys are being developed selfishly for NXT and wind up getting pulled. Lars Sullivan, with the "tools" they've given him will be a main roster flop, he's not big enough to be doing that shtick. I have serious concerns about Undisputed Era not getting over the way their supposed to. Ricochet might have a chance on Smackdown, but if they pull him to Raw get ready to see Evan Bourne 2.0. The Gargano/Ciampa feud is a perfect example, it has been AMAZING, but will do neither any favors beyond NXT. People like Baily who are "developed" exclusively through NXT angles are surely going to disappoint on the main roster.

To my original point, Triple H saying "if you believe that everyone who gets called up will become ‘the guy’ or ‘the girl’ or the next big thing it’s kind of an unrealistic expectation..." is a fine thing to say if you're not the one running developmental. We SHOULD "BELIEVE" everyone who gets called up will become the next 'guy' or 'girl'. That means he's doing his job! If they're not in a spot for us to realistically believe they could be, then they're not ready to be called up! EXPECTING them to be is unrealistic, but to BELIEVE means you're doing it right, and they've failed a few times.
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Re: Triple H Addresses Some NXT Stars Not Finding Success On The Main Roster

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 23rd, '18, 20:08

Bob-O wrote: Jun 23rd, '18, 11:11
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 20th, '18, 18:45 There are some people who it really isn't realistic to believe will be big stars anywhere with the NXT gimmicks they have. No Way Jose is a lifetime opening match babyface gimmick. Levis Valenzuela Jr. might have the talent in him and he might not but as long as he remains No Way Jose he will be stuck in the same place he is now
You're right, it's not realistic, but speaking from a kayfabe sense it's supposed to be realistic. They're really bad at this, but while people's places in the grand scheme of things are obvious and the champion hasn't even been seen in months, it should be assumed that everyone is there with one goal in mind. If we're supposed to believe that 2/3rds of the people featured on their shows are just there to be filler, then what's the point of tuning in? If we're to believe that No Way Jose showed up to work to make the kids laugh and the drunk guys dance and, kayfabe now, that's his whole purpose in life then seriously, wtf are we doing for 5 hours a week?
But the question was asked of Hunter in a non-kayfabe context, so a non-kayfabe answer makes sense.
Bob-O wrote: Jun 23rd, '18, 11:11 From a non-kayfabe sense, I was shocked when Elias started pissing around in the upper mid-card, I had him locked as an opener for life. It's reminiscent of that ridiculous white rapper that somehow got into the main event and his own spinner title. But in kayfabe, it all makes sense because that's what they're there for.
I don't think I've ever heard anyone make this comparison before, but it's pretty accurate for this point their main roster careers.
Bob-O wrote: Jun 23rd, '18, 11:11
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 20th, '18, 18:45 The Ascension should have had no problem getting over on the main roster. They had a cool entrance and they obliterated people.
I knew right away they wouldn't fly on the main roster because they're not big enough (The Bar, The Bludgeon Brothers) to be obliterating people and they're not skilled enough to obliterating the smaller teams. It worked on NXT because they could hide it, but Konner (the bigger one) wasn't even 250lbs when they were called up. They were not given the tools needed to succeed on the main roster, they were given the tools needed to succeed in developmental.

That's the thing with NXT. Some of the guys are being developed for the main roster, and some of the guys are being developed selfishly for NXT and wind up getting pulled. Lars Sullivan, with the "tools" they've given him will be a main roster flop, he's not big enough to be doing that shtick. I have serious concerns about Undisputed Era not getting over the way their supposed to. Ricochet might have a chance on Smackdown, but if they pull him to Raw get ready to see Evan Bourne 2.0. The Gargano/Ciampa feud is a perfect example, it has been AMAZING, but will do neither any favors beyond NXT. People like Baily who are "developed" exclusively through NXT angles are surely going to disappoint on the main roster.
I guess I just assumed that Connor was bigger.
As for the other guys... basically it depends on who is doing their booking. The more say Hunter has, the better they will be utilized.
Bob-O wrote: Jun 23rd, '18, 11:11 To my original point, Triple H saying "if you believe that everyone who gets called up will become ‘the guy’ or ‘the girl’ or the next big thing it’s kind of an unrealistic expectation..." is a fine thing to say if you're not the one running developmental. We SHOULD "BELIEVE" everyone who gets called up will become the next 'guy' or 'girl'. That means he's doing his job! If they're not in a spot for us to realistically believe they could be, then they're not ready to be called up! EXPECTING them to be is unrealistic, but to BELIEVE means you're doing it right, and they've failed a few times.
You're operating under an assumption that promotion from NXT should work like promotion from a minor league team to a major league one, but that's not how it works a lot of the time. A guy like No Way Jose didn't have anything else to do in NXT. They weren't going to put the belt on him, and even having him feud with the champion given the crazy number of better choices available isn't even a good idea, so why not promote him? He gets to make main roster money this way, and you have a new babyface opener act to replace an older, more stale one (R-Truth, Heath Slater, etc.).
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