Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Everything that is happening in the wrestling world.
User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 17th, '22, 11:45

https://www.pwtorch.com/site/2022/01/17 ... -contract/

BY ZACK HEYDORN, PWTORCH ASSISTANT EDITOR

January 17, 2022


Cody Rhodes is a free agent.

Fightful Select is reporting that Rhodes is working without an AEW contract and that his contract expired at the end of 2021. Rhodes is the TNT Champion, but has been out of action due to COVID-19 protocols.

Rhodes is a founding member of AEW and an EVP with the company. He is set to make his return to AEW Dynamite this week.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 17th, '22, 11:46

I'm not convinced this is true, but if it is, how much do you think Vince is offering him to show up on Raw and dump the belt in the trash?
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by cero2k » Jan 17th, '22, 13:09

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 17th, '22, 11:46 I'm not convinced this is true, but if it is, how much do you think Vince is offering him to show up on Raw and dump the belt in the trash?
i have to imagine that the contract is for 'active wrestler' and not the EVP one, which should be indefinite, so it be a weird move to do that of the company you're EVPing
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 17th, '22, 15:56

cero2k wrote: Jan 17th, '22, 13:09
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 17th, '22, 11:46 I'm not convinced this is true, but if it is, how much do you think Vince is offering him to show up on Raw and dump the belt in the trash?
i have to imagine that the contract is for 'active wrestler' and not the EVP one, which should be indefinite, so it be a weird move to do that of the company you're EVPing
I'm not certain that they have "different" contracts the way that people in WWE do (which never made much sense to me), which is a big part of why this feels like a planted story to me.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by cero2k » Jan 17th, '22, 18:44

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 17th, '22, 15:56
I'm not certain that they have "different" contracts the way that people in WWE do (which never made much sense to me), which is a big part of why this feels like a planted story to me.
Well, dude wants to be a heel, jumping to WWE would definitely make him a heel. See him jump to ROH and pin Gresham
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 17th, '22, 19:11

cero2k wrote: Jan 17th, '22, 18:44
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 17th, '22, 15:56
I'm not certain that they have "different" contracts the way that people in WWE do (which never made much sense to me), which is a big part of why this feels like a planted story to me.
Well, dude wants to be a heel, jumping to WWE would definitely make him a heel.
I don't think he does want to be a heel. I think he wants to be a babyface, and this "it's passe" thing is his latest attempt to talk himself out of the idea that people are booing him.

But if he does want to be a heel, going to WWE for two years with the intention of then coming back to AEW is the real galaxy-brain move.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1802
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by XIV » Jan 21st, '22, 13:21

If Cody is an EVP, surely he should set the standard of, you know, not letting these sorts of contracts expire?

Just bad EVP’ing

Unless by now, Tony Khan has realised that Cody has absolutely none of Dusty’s booking and wrestling sense and is more interested in being a celebrity than he is being a wrestler.
Have A Nice Day!

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 21st, '22, 13:49

XIV wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:21
Unless by now, Tony Khan has realised that Cody has absolutely none of Dusty’s booking and wrestling sense
You've got it all backwards, friend. Cody has EXACTLY Dusty's booking sense.

Trying to find a way to glom on to popular acts to get himself cheered? That's desperate late 80s Dusty 101.

Remember that big speech Cody gave when he lost the TNT Title to Brodie Lee about how important the belt was? Compare that to Cody's comments after he lost the title to Darby (i.e. when Cody knew he wasn't getting it back in a few weeks). Pure selfish political bullsh*tery. Skillfully done- a la Dusty, Hogan, Nash, and Hunter rather than more clumsy practitioners like Luger, Kamala, and Bagwell- but it's selfish bullsh*t none the less. His father would be proud.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1802
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by XIV » Jan 21st, '22, 13:57

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:49
XIV wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:21
Unless by now, Tony Khan has realised that Cody has absolutely none of Dusty’s booking and wrestling sense
You've got it all backwards, friend. Cody has EXACTLY Dusty's booking sense.

Trying to find a way to glom on to popular acts to get himself cheered? That's desperate late 80s Dusty 101.

Remember that big speech Cody gave when he lost the TNT Title to Brodie Lee about how important the belt was? Compare that to Cody's comments after he lost the title to Darby (i.e. when Cody knew he wasn't getting it back in a few weeks). Pure selfish political bullsh*tery. Skillfully done- a la Dusty, Hogan, Nash, and Hunter rather than more clumsy practitioners like Luger, Kamala, and Bagwell- but it's selfish bullsh*t none the less. His father would be proud.
But Dusty booked shows that garnered record numbers in various territories and made not just himself, but other wrestlers under him a lot of money and drew big crowds.

Cody may have reused some of his Dads ideas on himself, but I don’t believe he’s done much else.
Have A Nice Day!

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 22nd, '22, 16:07

XIV wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:57
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:49
XIV wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:21
Unless by now, Tony Khan has realised that Cody has absolutely none of Dusty’s booking and wrestling sense
You've got it all backwards, friend. Cody has EXACTLY Dusty's booking sense.

Trying to find a way to glom on to popular acts to get himself cheered? That's desperate late 80s Dusty 101.

Remember that big speech Cody gave when he lost the TNT Title to Brodie Lee about how important the belt was? Compare that to Cody's comments after he lost the title to Darby (i.e. when Cody knew he wasn't getting it back in a few weeks). Pure selfish political bullsh*tery. Skillfully done- a la Dusty, Hogan, Nash, and Hunter rather than more clumsy practitioners like Luger, Kamala, and Bagwell- but it's selfish bullsh*t none the less. His father would be proud.
But Dusty booked shows that garnered record numbers in various territories and made not just himself, but other wrestlers under him a lot of money and drew big crowds.

Cody may have reused some of his Dads ideas on himself, but I don’t believe he’s done much else.
I think it's possible that Cody deserves credit for some of the All Out and Bullet Club Civil War stuff and early AEW stuff that was well received by many and drew relatively well. Then again, the more I think about it, while that stuff shares a lot of the same flaws as Cody's stuff, those same flaws are often the ones we see with stuff the Bucks and Omega are involved in, too. And there is the question of when TK actually took control of all of the booking (AEW's official story is after the Dark Order Debacle, but when it was a big talking point over the summer, everyone was saying it seemed a lot more recent and that they were surprised by the timeline AEW was claiming). It's possible that all of them just have the same flaws in terms of booking/storytelling/logic. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps Cody actually did help make more for others earlier, and we just assign that credit to "AEW" rather than just to Cody himself because we don't know.
I'm not saying he drew as much or helped as many people as Dusty, but I do see a similar pattern.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1802
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by XIV » Jan 24th, '22, 10:35

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 22nd, '22, 16:07
XIV wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:57
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 21st, '22, 13:49
You've got it all backwards, friend. Cody has EXACTLY Dusty's booking sense.

Trying to find a way to glom on to popular acts to get himself cheered? That's desperate late 80s Dusty 101.

Remember that big speech Cody gave when he lost the TNT Title to Brodie Lee about how important the belt was? Compare that to Cody's comments after he lost the title to Darby (i.e. when Cody knew he wasn't getting it back in a few weeks). Pure selfish political bullsh*tery. Skillfully done- a la Dusty, Hogan, Nash, and Hunter rather than more clumsy practitioners like Luger, Kamala, and Bagwell- but it's selfish bullsh*t none the less. His father would be proud.
But Dusty booked shows that garnered record numbers in various territories and made not just himself, but other wrestlers under him a lot of money and drew big crowds.

Cody may have reused some of his Dads ideas on himself, but I don’t believe he’s done much else.
I think it's possible that Cody deserves credit for some of the All Out and Bullet Club Civil War stuff and early AEW stuff that was well received by many and drew relatively well. Then again, the more I think about it, while that stuff shares a lot of the same flaws as Cody's stuff, those same flaws are often the ones we see with stuff the Bucks and Omega are involved in, too. And there is the question of when TK actually took control of all of the booking (AEW's official story is after the Dark Order Debacle, but when it was a big talking point over the summer, everyone was saying it seemed a lot more recent and that they were surprised by the timeline AEW was claiming). It's possible that all of them just have the same flaws in terms of booking/storytelling/logic. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that perhaps Cody actually did help make more for others earlier, and we just assign that credit to "AEW" rather than just to Cody himself because we don't know.
I'm not saying he drew as much or helped as many people as Dusty, but I do see a similar pattern.
Maybe! There may be some similarities, but they are very different scales. Dusty was a wrestler who wanted to be a wrestler. Cody is a wrestler who just wants to be a celebrity with his wife.

I believe Omega still has a lot to do with booking the women's division and proof of this is that it is still centred around women like Riho who are so outrageous that it shouldn't be allowed. She kicks out of EVERYTHING. she's bulletproof. It's just mad booking of someone. Britt Baker basically had to run her over with an 18 wheeler to get the victory, its not believable and it doesn't make for a good spectacle!

The women's division continues to be booked horribly, hopefully (remember the tooth and nail match!?) hopefully they can pick up on Toni Storm and some others to make a credible top end of the women's division!
Have A Nice Day!

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 24th, '22, 11:56

XIV wrote: Jan 24th, '22, 10:35

I believe Omega still has a lot to do with booking the women's division and proof of this is that it is still centred around women like Riho who are so outrageous that it shouldn't be allowed. She kicks out of EVERYTHING. she's bulletproof. It's just mad booking of someone. Britt Baker basically had to run her over with an 18 wheeler to get the victory, its not believable and it doesn't make for a good spectacle!

The women's division continues to be booked horribly, hopefully (remember the tooth and nail match!?) hopefully they can pick up on Toni Storm and some others to make a credible top end of the women's division!
I don't disagree that the division is poorly booked, but I think the complaint about kicking out of everything can be applied to a lot of other places in the company as well (Cole vs. OC being most prominent in my mind at the moment). That's just the style that a lot of them work. Not everyone is going to be able to be Danielson and learn to shift away from it.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1802
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by XIV » Jan 25th, '22, 01:57

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 24th, '22, 11:56
XIV wrote: Jan 24th, '22, 10:35

I believe Omega still has a lot to do with booking the women's division and proof of this is that it is still centred around women like Riho who are so outrageous that it shouldn't be allowed. She kicks out of EVERYTHING. she's bulletproof. It's just mad booking of someone. Britt Baker basically had to run her over with an 18 wheeler to get the victory, its not believable and it doesn't make for a good spectacle!

The women's division continues to be booked horribly, hopefully (remember the tooth and nail match!?) hopefully they can pick up on Toni Storm and some others to make a credible top end of the women's division!
I don't disagree that the division is poorly booked, but I think the complaint about kicking out of everything can be applied to a lot of other places in the company as well (Cole vs. OC being most prominent in my mind at the moment). That's just the style that a lot of them work. Not everyone is going to be able to be Danielson and learn to shift away from it.
I used Riho as the most extreme version of a smaller person kicking out of everything. Visually it's just poor and lazy booking to allow everyone to do everything, because then when do moments do appear on big matches, people are desensitised to it. Not exclusively an AEW problem though, I'll admit.

The women's division has no clear objective, aside from Britt Baker, nobody is really getting over. People enjoy Anna Jay & Tay Conti, but nothing is really done with them properly. It should in theory be the easiest divison to book, you've got a finite amount of women and now 2 titles to fight over. But they're pushing green talent like Jade Cargill (visually, she's great, but in ring work leaves a lot to be desired) over people like Serena Deeb or Thunder Rosa. You'll see Riho vs Baker for the 10th time followed by an angle with the girl from the pudding gang, but not Conti vs Baker in a proper angle instead just now lumping her in with Adam Cole just because?
Have A Nice Day!

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 25th, '22, 09:28

XIV wrote: Jan 25th, '22, 01:57
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 24th, '22, 11:56
XIV wrote: Jan 24th, '22, 10:35

I believe Omega still has a lot to do with booking the women's division and proof of this is that it is still centred around women like Riho who are so outrageous that it shouldn't be allowed. She kicks out of EVERYTHING. she's bulletproof. It's just mad booking of someone. Britt Baker basically had to run her over with an 18 wheeler to get the victory, its not believable and it doesn't make for a good spectacle!

The women's division continues to be booked horribly, hopefully (remember the tooth and nail match!?) hopefully they can pick up on Toni Storm and some others to make a credible top end of the women's division!
I don't disagree that the division is poorly booked, but I think the complaint about kicking out of everything can be applied to a lot of other places in the company as well (Cole vs. OC being most prominent in my mind at the moment). That's just the style that a lot of them work. Not everyone is going to be able to be Danielson and learn to shift away from it.
I used Riho as the most extreme version of a smaller person kicking out of everything. Visually it's just poor and lazy booking to allow everyone to do everything, because then when do moments do appear on big matches, people are desensitised to it. Not exclusively an AEW problem though, I'll admit.
It's a funny thing, because it doesn't really bother me when it happens in two or three main event-level matches in a row. It rarely got in the way when I was watching ROH and never feels like an issue on AEW or NXT PPVs. That doesn't mean it didn't stick out more when they protected a finisher, but it's the sort of thing that really only bugs me when it feels like it is being done just "to have a great match" in a random spot[/quote]
XIV wrote: Jan 25th, '22, 01:57 The women's division has no clear objective, aside from Britt Baker, nobody is really getting over. People enjoy Anna Jay & Tay Conti, but nothing is really done with them properly. It should in theory be the easiest divison to book, you've got a finite amount of women and now 2 titles to fight over. But they're pushing green talent like Jade Cargill (visually, she's great, but in ring work leaves a lot to be desired) over people like Serena Deeb or Thunder Rosa. You'll see Riho vs Baker for the 10th time followed by an angle with the girl from the pudding gang, but not Conti vs Baker in a proper angle instead just now lumping her in with Adam Cole just because?
I disagree. I think Thunder Rosa taking the belt from Britt has been the direction since Britt got the belt.

As for Cole and Britt, I think the idea there is to add to the feeling that Cole is moving away from the Bucks by adding these new elements to him (either fully "new" like Britt, or just" new to AEW" like reDRagon). I think the kiss spot two weeks ago where she intercepted the Bucks to make out with Cole was specifically intended to start that.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1802
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by XIV » Jan 26th, '22, 06:03

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 25th, '22, 09:28
XIV wrote: Jan 25th, '22, 01:57
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 24th, '22, 11:56

I don't disagree that the division is poorly booked, but I think the complaint about kicking out of everything can be applied to a lot of other places in the company as well (Cole vs. OC being most prominent in my mind at the moment). That's just the style that a lot of them work. Not everyone is going to be able to be Danielson and learn to shift away from it.
I used Riho as the most extreme version of a smaller person kicking out of everything. Visually it's just poor and lazy booking to allow everyone to do everything, because then when do moments do appear on big matches, people are desensitised to it. Not exclusively an AEW problem though, I'll admit.
It's a funny thing, because it doesn't really bother me when it happens in two or three main event-level matches in a row. It rarely got in the way when I was watching ROH and never feels like an issue on AEW or NXT PPVs. That doesn't mean it didn't stick out more when they protected a finisher, but it's the sort of thing that really only bugs me when it feels like it is being done just "to have a great match" in a random spot
XIV wrote: Jan 25th, '22, 01:57 The women's division has no clear objective, aside from Britt Baker, nobody is really getting over. People enjoy Anna Jay & Tay Conti, but nothing is really done with them properly. It should in theory be the easiest divison to book, you've got a finite amount of women and now 2 titles to fight over. But they're pushing green talent like Jade Cargill (visually, she's great, but in ring work leaves a lot to be desired) over people like Serena Deeb or Thunder Rosa. You'll see Riho vs Baker for the 10th time followed by an angle with the girl from the pudding gang, but not Conti vs Baker in a proper angle instead just now lumping her in with Adam Cole just because?
I disagree. I think Thunder Rosa taking the belt from Britt has been the direction since Britt got the belt.

As for Cole and Britt, I think the idea there is to add to the feeling that Cole is moving away from the Bucks by adding these new elements to him (either fully "new" like Britt, or just" new to AEW" like reDRagon). I think the kiss spot two weeks ago where she intercepted the Bucks to make out with Cole was specifically intended to start that.
[/quote]

It definitely bothers me, if Wrestler X goes through a table in segment 3 of a show and is laid out and selling their death, and then in Segment 6 Wrestler Y goes through a table but kicks out at 2 and pops up and makes a comeback 20 seconds later, it bothers me, it devalues what else is on the show. If Riho/Marko Stunt are kicking out of big impact moves from Nyla Rose/Lance Archer for example, how am I ever supposed to take those moves seriously when they're done on a bigger person? I won't. It's the presentation of it that's off.
Have A Nice Day!

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by cero2k » Jan 26th, '22, 09:53

XIV wrote: Jan 26th, '22, 06:03
It definitely bothers me, if Wrestler X goes through a table in segment 3 of a show and is laid out and selling their death, and then in Segment 6 Wrestler Y goes through a table but kicks out at 2 and pops up and makes a comeback 20 seconds later, it bothers me, it devalues what else is on the show. If Riho/Marko Stunt are kicking out of big impact moves from Nyla Rose/Lance Archer for example, how am I ever supposed to take those moves seriously when they're done on a bigger person? I won't. It's the presentation of it that's off.
it's like if people were not all the same
Image

User avatar
XIV
Posts: 1802
Joined: Aug 19th, '13, 11:38

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by XIV » Jan 27th, '22, 12:40

cero2k wrote: Jan 26th, '22, 09:53
XIV wrote: Jan 26th, '22, 06:03
It definitely bothers me, if Wrestler X goes through a table in segment 3 of a show and is laid out and selling their death, and then in Segment 6 Wrestler Y goes through a table but kicks out at 2 and pops up and makes a comeback 20 seconds later, it bothers me, it devalues what else is on the show. If Riho/Marko Stunt are kicking out of big impact moves from Nyla Rose/Lance Archer for example, how am I ever supposed to take those moves seriously when they're done on a bigger person? I won't. It's the presentation of it that's off.
it's like if people were not all the same
They are not! You’re correct! But come on, maintain some sense of what a wrestling story is and how to put together a wrestling show.
Have A Nice Day!

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 27th, '22, 13:29

XIV wrote: Jan 27th, '22, 12:40
cero2k wrote: Jan 26th, '22, 09:53
XIV wrote: Jan 26th, '22, 06:03
It definitely bothers me, if Wrestler X goes through a table in segment 3 of a show and is laid out and selling their death, and then in Segment 6 Wrestler Y goes through a table but kicks out at 2 and pops up and makes a comeback 20 seconds later, it bothers me, it devalues what else is on the show. If Riho/Marko Stunt are kicking out of big impact moves from Nyla Rose/Lance Archer for example, how am I ever supposed to take those moves seriously when they're done on a bigger person? I won't. It's the presentation of it that's off.
it's like if people were not all the same
They are not! You’re correct! But come on, maintain some sense of what a wrestling story is and how to put together a wrestling show.
See, the thing that bothers me most that you mentioned is the "makes a comeback twenty seconds later" part.
I don't disagree with you about Marko Stunt and (possibly) Riho, but I think that they are the exception, rather than the rule. I've always viewed it as just toughness and adrenaline, and some people have it at different levels than others. Also, sometimes a move just hits differently. It's why some piledrivers kayfabe break your neck and why others just kayfabe hurt a lot.

I think one of the things that has been lost over the years is that with a smaller wrestler in an environment were a lot of people will be significantly bigger, you need to spend time building the smaller wrestler up as exceptionally tough, a la Spike Dudley. The last time I really remember anyone putting major effort into this was Darby Allin in EVOLVE, and that wasn't really even a size thing so much as it was Gabe doing things to get over Darby's toughness and tenacity.

While we're on the subject, I need to give props to Lio Rush, as one of the things that I found so impressive about him (especially earlier in his career) is that he seemed to make of point of countering or avoiding moves rather than getting hit with them and kicking out.

Also to give props, if I remember correctly, some of the stuff you're talking about was one of things in that leaked Gabe memo to the EVOLVE locker room ("sell a strike from Keith Lee more than from Darby Allin" or whatever exactly Gabe said).


As for the overall psychology discussion, I am certainly sympathetic to your argument and would absolutely agree that the business would probably be better off if certain things were protected more (weapons, and any sort of "clearly kayfabe landing on the top of your head" piledriver, as opposed to something like a Tiger Driver or the One-Winged Angel or Poison-rana where you can see that maybe they actually landed on the back of their neck), but I think that at this point the Overton Window of what fans are willing to believe some can kick out of has shifted to the point where it would take a concerted, industry-wide effort to move it back, and that's not going to happen.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

User avatar
cero2k
Site Admin
Posts: 20950
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 11:32

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by cero2k » Jan 28th, '22, 11:04

Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 27th, '22, 13:29
While we're on the subject, I need to give props to Lio Rush, as one of the things that I found so impressive about him (especially earlier in his career) is that he seemed to make of point of countering or avoiding moves rather than getting hit with them and kicking out.
Never forget

Image



My general consensus is that it's not a matter of a match or a spot, not even a show. It's how you tell your overall stories and you create character profiles and then you explore how those characters interact with each other. I don't see a problem if big wrestler gets taken out by a table spot, but the little one survives it as long as we know the little guy (1) hasn't taken enough damaged, (2) tends to take a lot of damage and keep going, or (3) the spot itself wasn't as devastating as the other.

Moreover, regardless of the character, there are many reasons why people can kick out of things or moves differently. a 'finisher' (which is a dumb concept to begin with), really shouldn't be able to take out someone, a trained fighter, as the first move, unless that's the story. A 'finisher' can be kicked out more and more as we see the story of a wrestler getting worn out, or if it's hit on someone who has a strong defense against that move. Playing around with that can create great stories, like Okada's last 4 years.

Wrestling is like playing D&D, even sometimes with the randomization that a move doesn't always land the way they wanted it to. Wrestlers have classes, that gives them proficiency in certain attributes and certain moves. A powerhouse wrestler will not always beat Spike Dudley's 'heart', or Jack Evans 'elasticity', or Darby's 'pain absorption'.

The idea that big = strong/slow and small = weak/fast is such an antiquated and low-brow way to present wrestling now a days, fans are smarter than that. There's no reason to not play around with character traits, proficiencies, weaknesses, luck, progression, regression, and all that.
Image

User avatar
Big Red Machine
Posts: 27378
Joined: Dec 16th, '10, 15:12

Re: Cody Rhodes reportedly working without an AEW contract

Post by Big Red Machine » Jan 28th, '22, 13:23

cero2k wrote: Jan 28th, '22, 11:04
Big Red Machine wrote: Jan 27th, '22, 13:29
While we're on the subject, I need to give props to Lio Rush, as one of the things that I found so impressive about him (especially earlier in his career) is that he seemed to make of point of countering or avoiding moves rather than getting hit with them and kicking out.
Never forget

Image
Yeah, that did happen.



cero2k wrote: Jan 28th, '22, 11:04 My general consensus is that it's not a matter of a match or a spot, not even a show. It's how you tell your overall stories and you create character profiles and then you explore how those characters interact with each other. I don't see a problem if big wrestler gets taken out by a table spot, but the little one survives it as long as we know the little guy (1) hasn't taken enough damaged, (2) tends to take a lot of damage and keep going, or (3) the spot itself wasn't as devastating as the other.

Moreover, regardless of the character, there are many reasons why people can kick out of things or moves differently. a 'finisher' (which is a dumb concept to begin with), really shouldn't be able to take out someone, a trained fighter, as the first move, unless that's the story. A 'finisher' can be kicked out more and more as we see the story of a wrestler getting worn out, or if it's hit on someone who has a strong defense against that move. Playing around with that can create great stories, like Okada's last 4 years.

The best way I've heard the "finisher" argument made is that it's a "confidence" thing, like a pitcher with a pitch they go to when they really need to get an out.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
DGUSA Open the Ultimate Gate 2013
ROH/CMLL Global Wars Espectacular: Day 3

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 19 guests