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NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 29th, '19, 15:59
by NWK2000
April 27, 2019, Concord NC
Intro

To say this show intrigued me is an understatement. We really seem to be on the cusp of an indy renaissance, where people are locking down and making names for themselves no matter where they are, where old school values and new school talent are coming together. This show seems to be the epitome of that, with the Crockett Cup being dusted off, with NWA crowning its new champions on a big stage with some of the best talent in the world. But is this a good show to kick off the NWA revival? Let's find out.

Opening video package: They frame the Marty Scurll finger break as something they can't show on TV, cutting away just as it's done. We then cut to Aldis talking about the prominence of the NWA in a gym with footage of him carrying himself like a champion. We then cut to an interview by The Villain, in which he seems like a flippant, devil may care kind of guy with something just a little dangerous about him. I liked this.a whole lot

Show open: The regal music, the two big banners of Marty and Nick, and the trophy with pyro erupting behind it are all beautiful touches. Our commentary team is Ian Riccaboni, Joe Galli, and Jim Cornette.

Wild Card Battle Royal
Winning team gets the final spot in the Crockett Cup

The Boys vs Will Ferrera/Rhett Titus vs. Jay Bradley /Josephus vs. Royce Isaacs /Thom Latimer vs The Dawson Brothers, vs Cam Connor/Lebron Cozo vs Kevin Blue/Billy Buck
,


It took me like, 15 minutes to find a google result with even some of the winning teams listed, and some of the guys I just had to spell their names based on how they sounded (sorry if I mispelled your names Connor and Cozo). I think two of the teams got name keys, and one's kept disappearing and appearing.

Anyway, Rhett poses and gets eliminated immediately. This segues into the announcers telling us that both team members had to be eliminated, and if half of a team stayed in and won, that team was eligible. I like this format a lot. Each team gets their spot and gets eliminated. Connor even gets to be eliminated via suicide divng onto some other people which woke the crowd up. We're down to The Boys, Bradley/Josephus, and Issacs/Latimer. Issacs and Latimer collide and bail through the middle rope for no reason.. The Boys eliminate Bradley and Josephus, but Issacs and Latimer, who we learn have never teamed together before, sneak up on The Boys and win.

This was a match that was what it was. There was some goofy stuff, but each team got to shine which manifested in a pretty cool Battle Royal

5/10

The commentary team blabs on about footage related to our first tournament match, then blabs on about....

Caprice Coleman ringside corresponds: He just provides exposition, we're also told Latimer and Issacs blew off the interview, but we're not shown them at any pont.

Flip Gordon video: Flip injured himself at this venue a while back. He's not the best promo in the world, but he cuts a serviceable babyface promo about being disappointed he couldn't perform, but now he gets the chance to tonight.

Crockett Cup Quarter Final[
Flip Gordon and Bandido vs Guerrero Maya Jr and Stuka Jr

Flip is wearing a sombrero and Bandido is wearing a Flip Gordon shirt. This was a cool little touch.

Bandido and Stuka start with a lucha exchange, standoff, another lucha exchange, and they tag out to their partners. More exchanges, and an early miscue from Gordon and Bandido that would normally be a finish is just a thing that happens that advances the story of them not teaming regularly. I liked this a lot. Watching Stuka move is like watching an alligator do gymnastics and it's amazing. Bandido really sells for Stuka. Bandido gets hoofed to his corner and tags in Gordon, this leads to cool double team submissions by the CMLL guys, including a Mexican Surfboard which Gordon somehow makes a pin. Stuka teases a dive onto Gordon in the ring, but torpedo planchas onto Bandido on the outside instead. From here we get lots of cool moves, some not so fluid tandem dives and some fluid tandem spots. Maya Jr's finisher is called The Mayan Sacrifice which might be the dopest name for a finisher I've ever heard. Gordon hits a the Star Spangled Stunner to win. Gordon is the next AJ Styles in terms of talent I think.

All four of these guys rule, and as such, this match ruled.
7.75/10

Aldis vs Scurll video package part 1: Interesting. It talks about how they came up together, and how Nick advanced further than Marty did, so Marty created "The Villain" to stand out from the pack. We see a lot of same footage we saw in the opening video package, and Marty seemed out of character here which was weird.

Crockett Cup Quarter Final
Royce Issacs and Thom Latimer vs. The War Kings (Crimson and Jax Dane)


This is your "Big Hosses vs Wormy Heels" match of the evening. This was your every day tag match that built to a hot tag. Jax really got to show off how powerful and how much of a stage presence he is. The heels get their feet on the ropes to win. We now know one of our semi-final matches are Latimer and Issacs vs Flip and Bandido.
I liked this match a lot. In fact, the only thing I didn't like was Jax's hot tag, which consisted of headbutts which he then had to sell. Other than that, this was fun.
6.5/10

Briscoes promo on the farm: They cut what I can only describe as a crackhead promo about RnR failing in the original Crockett Cup, the RnR being old and whooping their asses.

Jim Cornette interviews The Rock n' Roll Express... but the Briscoes interrupt : Ricky cuts a good babyface promo about a feel good moment and their accomplishments. The Briscoes come out to music that sounds straight out of Deliverance and fits them better than any theme they've ever had. Briscoes heel out on the RnR telling them to leave or be retired. Morton kicks Jay in the nads, so we get...

Crockett Cup Quarter Final
The Rock n'Roll Express vs The Briscoes


I hope to be as mobile as the RnR are in their 60s. The Double Dropkick gets fucked up but I think it was because the Briscoes weren't in position . Ricky gets busted open iin the opening brawl after a suicide dive. The Briscoes work over Ricky from there. Having Jim giving us facts about the RnR's career and selling the Briscoes as dangerous gives this match that extra oomph that 90 percent of matches with legends don't have. . The RnR can still do false hot tag spots with the best of them. Props to the people in the crowd who fucking get it and are shouting down the Briscoe chants with 'ROCK AND ROLL" Rock n'Roll get a two count on the Briscoes but they fight back and get a Froggy Bow/DVD combo to win.

I was prepared to rate this as a segment, but honestly, this was a better match than the Battle Royal, and both guys teams did way better than they had any right to do.

6/10

Villain Enterprises win ROH Tag Wars: AWESOME. I have a soft spot in my heart for tag teams who look like they'd fit right in as Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles villains and Brody and PCO fit the bill with flying colors.

Villain Enterprises (PCO and Brody King) vs Yuji Nagata and Satoshi Kojima


Anytime Satoshi Kojima is on screen I am 1000 percent down. King and Nagata trade big strikes to a stalemate until Nagata MMA's him down with kicks and teases the Nagata lock. Then Kojima and PCO come in and I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT PCO! His facials, the way he moves around, the way he no sells (which the commentators are completely over dramatic about but that's not PCO's fault). I feel like people in sports overuse the superlative "not human" but PCO genuinely moves and behaves like he's from another planet.

Basically the second PCO tags his team dominates but not in the way that War Kings vs Latimer and Issac was , this is just complete domination as opposed to old school tag heelery. Kojima makes the hot tag to Nagata and he runs wild with kicks, but Brody doesn't even allow for a one count. They trade strikes. Nagata locks in an armbar out of nowhere and tries to work the arm but Brody fighs back, Kojima gets tagged in and fires up with chops. They trade stuff for a while until King hits a Michinoku Fireman's Carry Driver for the win.

This was an awesome showcase for Villain Enterprise, especially as someone who's never seen them.
7.5/10

Caprice bumblles his way through the rest of the card: It was bad.

Madusa promo: Alright. She looks gorgeous for her age, and has the delivery of the guest speaker at a fancy luncheon. She says she was the champion of two "entertainment companies" and some neckbeard yells "WRESTLING" Oh shut up. She gets emotional when she talks about the history of the title which was great.

[
NWA Women's Championship
Allysin Kay vs Santana Garrett
They tell you who the heel is right away with an unclean rope break by Kay. The story from there is a big heel vs a smaller, speedier more technical babyface, but Allysin gets a submission in. It breaks down into a brawl which Allysin wins. They trade strikes and do a double down. Allysin bullies Santana until she fires up. Allysn is a big brute so she telegraphs a lot of her stuff which makes Santana dodging everything make sense. Allysin powers through a Muta Lock which is crazy. They do a great job building to a Stratusfaction. Garrett misses her finisher and Kay hits her's for the win.
This match was awesome, probably the best one so far

8/10

Post match: Allysin Kay doesn't follow the Code of Honor

Aldis and Scurll Part 2" Aldis is a douchier heel this time, and Marty is trying to get under Aldis' skin about having main eventing at G1 Supercard and being a threat to his title.

Caprice Coleman with all three members of The Midnight Express: A heartwarming interlude, especially with Dennis.

Crockett Cup Semi-Finals
Issacs and Latimer vs Flip Gordon and Bandido


This is a power vs speed match up. Gordon and Bandido get to show off some power themselves however, as well as some cool double teams. Gordon tweaks his knee after a 450 and so the heels work the knee. The heels prevent the hot tag and...oh shit, the heels just win!
I wish we'd see stuff like this more often. I want subversion of expectations in my wrestling damn it! This was great!

7.5/10

Crockett Cup Semi-Finals
Villain Enterprises (PCO and Brody King) vs The Briscoe Brothers


Jay and Brody start, doing strike exchanges. Dem Boys powder out, and then Mark and PCO get tagged in, more crazy strike exchanges. PCO only gets knocked down when The Briscoes do tag team things, which is a wonderful piece of storytellng about how good a tag team Dem Boys are. PCO has Brody chop him because he's an insane person. Mark lands on his feet in a back body drop for a hot tag which ruled. We then get a series of crazy brutal looking spot. PCO crash and burns on an apron cannonball, holy shit. FROGGY BO TO THE OUTSIDE! WE'VE GOT A BRAWL ON OUR HANDS FOLKS. Chairs are used which warrants a DQ. and sets up interest in a No DQ match in the future.

This was AWESOME. If anything else tops this tonight I'll eat my hat.
8.5/10
Post match: The Briscoes beat up the ref and do a "chair on face/arm" apron cannonball on PCO which makes a gnarly noise. This is great! They then cut a crackhead promo and hock snot on the NWA logo

NWA National Championship
Willie Mack (c) vs Colt Cabana


I haven't seen Cabana wrestle since before his "transformation", so I'm very eager to see it.
Willie takes a sick bump out of the ring on a missed dropkick early, and what follows is some brutal strikes by Cabana. Mack fires back with a Meteora for a double down. Mack does a babyface comeback to such a flippy "move"-based degree that it would annoy me but Jim has his working boots on really selling me on Willie Mack. Willie hits a crazy version of the upside down cannonball. Cabana hits more strikes and a springbaard moonsault for a two. Crazy fake out splash on Willie's side for a two. They dodge each other's big shit, and Colt dives into a Superman Press for the quick pin!

This was a GREAT match that was harder hitting than anything else on the card thus far.

8.75/10

Post match: James Storm shows up! James shits on management for screwing him in a match with Aldis, despite him being more like NWA fans than Aldis. James puts over Colt. James gets some streamers stuck in his shoes which Colt helps him remove in a cool unscripted moment. He challenges Colt. This was great.

The Crocketts pose with the trophy and belts: A wonderful moment

Caprice Coleman interviews Nikita Koloff: Koloff will present the belts to the winners tonight. He brings out Magnum TA. It's all smiles, laughter, and happy memories. This was great

Crockett Cup Finals

Issacs and Latimer (w/Madusa) vs Villain Enterprises (PCO and Brody King

Oh shit Madusa is back in it. This is the best.

Brody tries to fight on his own but it's all Issacs and Latimer. Brody fights back into a double down for a hot tag. PCO sells his hurt arm by lifting it with his other arm to make the tag. He also SELLS THE PAIN OF THE TAG. Wow! Brody puts PCO's arm back in socket with a rope assisted arm breaker. Somehow this dumbshit Superman shit works because it's PCO. PCO and Brody beats up both guys and PCO hits a moonsault for the win

This was a very story based match, but I still love it! This, again was great

7/10

Aldis vs Skrull part 3: AWESOME. Nick is full on heel now and Marty is a firey babyface,. Marty breaks Nick's finger. It's amazing how, in three months with the right buid you can push a match with one physical interaction

NWA World Heavyweight Championship
Nick Aldis (c) (w/ Kamille) vs "The Villain" Marty Scrull)

I like how Tommy Young is so gilded as a senior ref he can just give the instructions and be the enforcer.

We get some World of Sport style grappliing before Marty feigns being tripped by Kamille and gets her thrown out, Eddie Guerrero style. This was awesome. Nick leaves to bitch out Tommy which gives Marty an opening but Aldis fires back ragdolling Villain all around. Aldis chokeslams Marty through a table which is purplexingly not a DQ. Maybe it's one of those Vince Russo "Let them go because it's a title match" logic? Defiant disrespectful Marty makes what's been an extended squash so far work. Marty fights back and stomps a mudhole which really gets the crowd pumped Aldis is now bleeding buckets after a punch to the eye. Aldis is now making mistakes and wrestling like he's on instinct Aldis does a great job selling. NOW we get the finger manipulation! Hooray! This spot making sense! We get finsher teases and a ref bump. Kamille tries to run in but Nick stops her. Marty kicks him in the nuts and hits Black Flag for the 2 1/2. I like how he's earned Nick's respect but Marty is clawing for everything, doing everything for the win. I like the "Huricanrana pin on a sunset flip" spot, they haven't lost sight of Aldis' strength advantage, which most wrestlers do.. Aldis is able to lock in the cloverleaf despite broken fingers for the tap out win.

Other than the table spot and the stopped Kamille interference being a bit too confusing for this match, this was a GREAT match, one of the best I've ever seen, and probably Marty's most believable performance to date.

9.5/10

Post match: Aldis hugs Marty in a show of respect. After the commentators sign off, Marty cuts a promo patting them both on the back. Nick does the same, thanking the crowd for coming.

Conclusion

Skip the Battle Royal and watch everything else. Other than the Battle Royal this was a show that never broke pace or got boring, and I haven't seen a modern show like that in a long time. A must watch for fans of Marty, or even critics of Marty, as this was his best showing

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 29th, '19, 20:45
by cero2k
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 15:59

It took me like, 15 minutes to find a google result with even some of the winning teams listed, and some of the guys I just had to spell their names based on how they sounded (sorry if I mispelled your names Connor and Cozo). I think two of the teams got name keys, and one's kept disappearing and appearing.
you misspelled the word 'mispelled'


I wasn't thinking of watching this show, but I guess i'll check it out once i'm done with AJPW. Looks promising.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 29th, '19, 22:23
by NWK2000
cero2k wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 20:45
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 15:59

It took me like, 15 minutes to find a google result with even some of the winning teams listed, and some of the guys I just had to spell their names based on how they sounded (sorry if I mispelled your names Connor and Cozo). I think two of the teams got name keys, and one's kept disappearing and appearing.
you misspelled the word 'mispelled'


I wasn't thinking of watching this show, but I guess i'll check it out once i'm done with AJPW. Looks promising.
HA! Guess that's what happens when you power through a review in one shot.
And yeah! I think a lot of people slept on this show, which is disappointing because the talent was so plentiful.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 29th, '19, 22:23
by NWK2000
cero2k wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 20:45
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 15:59

It took me like, 15 minutes to find a google result with even some of the winning teams listed, and some of the guys I just had to spell their names based on how they sounded (sorry if I mispelled your names Connor and Cozo). I think two of the teams got name keys, and one's kept disappearing and appearing.
you misspelled the word 'mispelled'


I wasn't thinking of watching this show, but I guess i'll check it out once i'm done with AJPW. Looks promising.
HA! Guess that's what happens when you power through a review in one shot.
And yeah! I think a lot of people slept on this show, which is disappointing because the talent was so plentiful.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 29th, '19, 22:40
by cero2k
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 22:23

HA! Guess that's what happens when you power through a review in one shot.
And yeah! I think a lot of people slept on this show, which is disappointing because the talent was so plentiful.
it's a weird thing that the NWA has going on right now, they're going for this super old school presentation with both talent that is either unknown or way known from ROH/TNA, and I think people hesitate to get into it because of the lack of movezzz or names like Aldis that I think people still have the TNA stigma on him. Try to follow the their 10 Lbs of Gold series on youtube and it doesn't disappoint.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 29th, '19, 22:50
by NWK2000
cero2k wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 22:40
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 22:23

HA! Guess that's what happens when you power through a review in one shot.
And yeah! I think a lot of people slept on this show, which is disappointing because the talent was so plentiful.
it's a weird thing that the NWA has going on right now, they're going for this super old school presentation with both talent that is either unknown or way known from ROH/TNA, and I think people hesitate to get into it because of the lack of movezzz or names like Aldis that I think people still have the TNA stigma on him. Try to follow the their 10 Lbs of Gold series on youtube and it doesn't disappoint.
I don't think it's a lack of "movezzzz", as there was plenty of that but guys who are most guilty of that did work a slower style. I think it's because NWA has been around for a long time, but has festered with no name jobbers as champions (after the TNA era) and that'll take years of solid booking to get the stink off of And yeah, Aldis not exactly being an indy darling doesn't help, but Aldis rules so those people should be quiet

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 00:12
by Big Red Machine
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 22:50
cero2k wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 22:40
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 22:23

HA! Guess that's what happens when you power through a review in one shot.
And yeah! I think a lot of people slept on this show, which is disappointing because the talent was so plentiful.
it's a weird thing that the NWA has going on right now, they're going for this super old school presentation with both talent that is either unknown or way known from ROH/TNA, and I think people hesitate to get into it because of the lack of movezzz or names like Aldis that I think people still have the TNA stigma on him. Try to follow the their 10 Lbs of Gold series on youtube and it doesn't disappoint.
I don't think it's a lack of "movezzzz", as there was plenty of that but guys who are most guilty of that did work a slower style. I think it's because NWA has been around for a long time, but has festered with no name jobbers as champions (after the TNA era) and that'll take years of solid booking to get the stink off of And yeah, Aldis not exactly being an indy darling doesn't help, but Aldis rules so those people should be quiet
I haven't seen the show yet, but I think NWK is mostly right that it's not a MOVEZ thing so much as it is a "the NWA in 2019? with Magnus as champion?" thing. Aldis is a good talker and all, but he's nowhere a world champion-level (or really even a main event-level) worker, Corgan's TNA run did nothing to convince people that he has any good ideas, and the rarity of them running shows (even this one they had to get a lot of help from ROH and NJPW) makes them feel like this group going around trying to tell us that their world champion is a big deal when they run fewer shows a year than your local low-level indy. I think it exposes that people weren't into the NWA World Heavyweight Title last year; they were into Cody, and the fact that that was by far the biggest exposure that belt has gotten since the split with TNA twelve years ago combined with them needing ROH's help to run this show makes them feel like a group that has no real reason to live and will fade into the death of near-obscurity from whence they came the moment ROH realizes they don't need to be bogging down their card with the NWA's useless titles and mediocre workers (they already have the Kingdom to bog down their cards, they don't need any help) and ends the relationship.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 09:34
by NWK2000
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 00:12


Aldis is a good talker and all, but he's nowhere a world champion-level (or really even a main event-level) worker,
Hate. hate, HATE this argument. It takes at minimum, two to tango in a wrestling match. If Aldis can hang and put on good, believable matches, he deserves similar credit to his opponent. This goes with any performer.
Corgan's TNA run did nothing to convince people that he has any good ideas, and the rarity of them running shows (even this one they had to get a lot of help from ROH and NJPW) makes them feel like this group going around trying to tell us that their world champion is a big deal when they run fewer shows a year than your local low-level indy.
I

I think that he has some good ideas. 10 lbs of gold shows that he knows how to properly present the main event as a UFC documentary, which honestly, is the direction wrestling should've gone 10 years ago. That said, there's always been someone else booking the undercard. Maybe that shows that Corgan can't book an undercard, maybe that shows that aligning with ROH, NJPW and CMLL is a good idea because you'll always have a solid undercard that other people do the stories on. Only time will tell, especially if one of those three promotions pull out.
think it exposes that people weren't into the NWA World Heavyweight Title last year; they were into Cody,

That was something that I noticed in the crowd, especially between Rock n' Roll and Briscoes. The fat, smelly indie nerds that populate these shows will always be there arbitrarily cheering for heels because they can, while there was a smaller contingent of people who "got it" and were actually chanting for the RnR, the babyfaces, like they're meant to. I really hope the booking in the future doesn't weed out the people who actually go to shoes and cheer for babyfaces, and it just becomes another fat, smelly, indie nerd haven like ROH
and the fact that that was by far the biggest exposure that belt has gotten since the split with TNA twelve years ago combined with them needing ROH's help to run this show makes them feel like a group that has no real reason to live and will fade into the death of near-obscurity from whence they came the moment ROH realizes they don't need to be bogging down their card with the NWA's useless titles and mediocre workers (they already have the Kingdom to bog down their cards, they don't need any help) and ends the relationship.
I feel like NWA is something similar to EVOLVE was in the late 2000s, where there were a ton of promotions all within its orbit and it gives people more places to wrestle and further storylines. And frankly, partnerships like this need to exist in order for wrestling to thrive. I really hope Ring of Honor doesn't get too big for it's britches and pull out, because I have no desireto watch really talented people like PCO and Flip get booked poorly on Delirious' island of fat, smelly, indie nerd pandering stupidity.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 10:09
by Big Red Machine
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 09:34
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 00:12


Aldis is a good talker and all, but he's nowhere a world champion-level (or really even a main event-level) worker,
Hate. hate, HATE this argument. It takes at minimum, two to tango in a wrestling match. If Aldis can hang and put on good, believable matches, he deserves similar credit to his opponent. This goes with any performer.
I am of the opinion that a good world champion is someone capable of taking a lesser worker and pulling them up to his/her level, but discarding that for a moment, while I haven't seen this match yet, I have seen Aldis' other performances, and he just plain hasn't been putting on world title level matches, even when given time. The P.J. Black match on ROH TV is a great example of this. They went almost twenty minutes and turned in what I would consider to be at best a passable TV main event for a company that I don't hold to slightly higher in-ring standards, which I do for any company that pushes workrate as a selling point. That's not enough for a main event world title match.
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 09:34
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 00:12
think it exposes that people weren't into the NWA World Heavyweight Title last year; they were into Cody,

That was something that I noticed in the crowd, especially between Rock n' Roll and Briscoes. The fat, smelly indie nerds that populate these shows will always be there arbitrarily cheering for heels because they can, while there was a smaller contingent of people who "got it" and were actually chanting for the RnR, the babyfaces, like they're meant to. I really hope the booking in the future doesn't weed out the people who actually go to shoes and cheer for babyfaces, and it just becomes another fat, smelly, indie nerd haven like ROH
I would usually agree with you on something like this, but the Rock n' Rolls are in their sixties. They should not be beating the Briscoes, and I certainly would be cheering against them if the consequences of them winning were them having to wrestle a second time.
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 09:34
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 00:12
and the fact that that was by far the biggest exposure that belt has gotten since the split with TNA twelve years ago combined with them needing ROH's help to run this show makes them feel like a group that has no real reason to live and will fade into the death of near-obscurity from whence they came the moment ROH realizes they don't need to be bogging down their card with the NWA's useless titles and mediocre workers (they already have the Kingdom to bog down their cards, they don't need any help) and ends the relationship.
I feel like NWA is something similar to EVOLVE was in the late 2000s, where there were a ton of promotions all within its orbit and it gives people more places to wrestle and further storylines. And frankly, partnerships like this need to exist in order for wrestling to thrive. I really hope Ring of Honor doesn't get too big for it's britches and pull out, because I have no desireto watch really talented people like PCO and Flip get booked poorly on Delirious' island of fat, smelly, indie nerd pandering stupidity.
Um... I think your timeline is off here, as EVOLVE didn't start until 2010. Maybe you're referring to 2006-2011 ROH with SHIMMER and (for part of that run) FIP, but even then I don't think the analogy holds water. ROH's deal with SHIMMER was more about exposure for SHIMMER than about ROH storylines, as it was almost always SHIMMER being showcased in ROH and not the other way around. The deal gave ROH an excuse not to try booking a full women's division (because SHIMMER was that division), another DVD product for them to sell in their store, and good relations with Prazak. And while FIP would occasionally feature an ROH World Title defense or a #1 contendership match, the storylines were kept relatively separate until late 2007/early 2008 (FIP Redefined is the listed starting point for this, but there is definitely an argument to be made that it started at ROH Final Battle 2007). Prior to that it was really just getting the FIP Title exposure because the same guy was booking both promotions and the champions at the time were guys he was using in both. FIP was also yet another DVD product to sell in the store, and the relationship kept Sal happy, which was important because he was the guy producing the DVDs for all three companies.
I see no service that the NWA currently provides either ROH or NJPW that justifies working with them this closely.

As for the "indie pandering" comments, I find it off that you would hold Flip Gordon and PCO up as guys who would be ruined by this sort of booking, as those are two of the first guys who come to mind when you ask me who in ROH is a "MOVEZZZZZZ!" guy. It's the Greshams and Haskins and Tracy Williams and Kenny Kings of the world who I am more concerned about being ruined.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 10:39
by NWK2000
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 09:34
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 00:12
think it exposes that people weren't into the NWA World Heavyweight Title last year; they were into Cody,

That was something that I noticed in the crowd, especially between Rock n' Roll and Briscoes. The fat, smelly indie nerds that populate these shows will always be there arbitrarily cheering for heels because they can, while there was a smaller contingent of people who "got it" and were actually chanting for the RnR, the babyfaces, like they're meant to. I really hope the booking in the future doesn't weed out the people who actually go to shoes and cheer for babyfaces, and it just becomes another fat, smelly, indie nerd haven like ROH
I would usually agree with you on something like this, but the Rock n' Rolls are in their sixties. They should not be beating the Briscoes, and I certainly would be cheering against them if the consequences of them winning were them having to wrestle a second time.
I mean, you're right, but the fact remains that there were people there cheering babyfaces, and I hope that future NWA shows don't snuff out that magic

As for the "indie pandering" comments, I find it off that you would hold Flip Gordon and PCO up as guys who would be ruined by this sort of booking, as those are two of the first guys who come to mind when you ask me who in ROH is a "MOVEZZZZZZ!" guy. It's the Greshams and Haskins and Tracy Williams and Kenny Kings of the world who I am more concerned about being ruined.
The last time I saw Flip was on the Jericho Cruise, and I think he has AJ Styles level potential, and this show indicates to me he would benefit from a more disciplined booker, who preferred a slower style, so when he does his "Movez" it actually stands out and adds to the story of the match. Same with PCO, I feel like a guy who's as lassiez-faire as Delirious will burn PCO's gimmick out at both ends, whereas again, a slower, more sensible style of wrestling would really make PCO stand out more. And I'm sure that the guys you mentioned would also benefit from such a style . I just haven't seen them

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 10:52
by Big Red Machine
I don't think PCO can do much of anything else than the big bumps and weapons style that he has been doing and remain interesting. Maybe with the right guy there is a big vs. little story there, but I don't think anyone in ROH is really capable of telling it other than Lethal and Gresham.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 11:27
by NWK2000
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 10:52
I don't think PCO can do much of anything else than the big bumps and weapons style that he has been doing and remain interesting. Maybe with the right guy there is a big vs. little story there, but I don't think anyone in ROH is really capable of telling it other than Lethal and Gresham.
Right, but with a slower burn it will be helpful, and considering NWA booked a title match that built for three months with one physical confrontation, I think they're capable of that

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 11:31
by Big Red Machine
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 11:27
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 10:52
I don't think PCO can do much of anything else than the big bumps and weapons style that he has been doing and remain interesting. Maybe with the right guy there is a big vs. little story there, but I don't think anyone in ROH is really capable of telling it other than Lethal and Gresham.
Right, but with a slower burn it will be helpful, and considering NWA booked a title match that built for three months with one physical confrontation, I think they're capable of that
Built? Perhaps. But I don't think it built particularly well. It was the kind of "slow build" where it feels like the build is slow because the show is booked for three months from now rather than a build that slowly brings the characters together and brings things to a boiling point just in time for the show that the first match is planned for.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 11:59
by NWK2000
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 11:31
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 11:27
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 10:52
I don't think PCO can do much of anything else than the big bumps and weapons style that he has been doing and remain interesting. Maybe with the right guy there is a big vs. little story there, but I don't think anyone in ROH is really capable of telling it other than Lethal and Gresham.
Right, but with a slower burn it will be helpful, and considering NWA booked a title match that built for three months with one physical confrontation, I think they're capable of that
Built? Perhaps. But I don't think it built particularly well. It was the kind of "slow build" where it feels like the build is slow because the show is booked for three months from now rather than a build that slowly brings the characters together and brings things to a boiling point just in time for the show that the first match is planned for.
Perhaps it's a matter of taste, but I really like long builds to feuds, and the fewer in ring confrontations the better. With most companies following a monthly PPV model, everything has to be shoehorned into a month and so there are physical confrontations throughout. Something about a feud htat has one confrontation is something I really like.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 12:16
by Big Red Machine
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 11:59
Big Red Machine wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 11:31
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 11:27


Right, but with a slower burn it will be helpful, and considering NWA booked a title match that built for three months with one physical confrontation, I think they're capable of that
Built? Perhaps. But I don't think it built particularly well. It was the kind of "slow build" where it feels like the build is slow because the show is booked for three months from now rather than a build that slowly brings the characters together and brings things to a boiling point just in time for the show that the first match is planned for.
Perhaps it's a matter of taste, but I really like long builds to feuds, and the fewer in ring confrontations the better. With most companies following a monthly PPV model, everything has to be shoehorned into a month and so there are physical confrontations throughout. Something about a feud htat has one confrontation is something I really like.
I agree that the change of from what we usually see is nice, but in my mind this was a feud that got forgotten about for most of the build period because Scurll was involved in the ROH World Title match build. I also disagree that the monthly PPV format itself is the issue as far as preventing slow build feuds in WWE (and TNA when they were doing the big monthly show format, and with everyone else who has tried to do it) so much as the lack of creative ability/strict adherence to a certain format of feuds in those companies. You can do slow build with very few physical confrontations in a monthly PPV format. The problem is that WWE seems to believe that in a feud, the matches must take place on consecutive PPVs, and that the only way to get a story of mutual conflict across to the audience is to showcase that conflict at every opportunity.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 13:42
by cero2k
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 10:39
I mean, you're right, but the fact remains that there were people there cheering babyfaces, and I hope that future NWA shows don't snuff out that magic
they were cheering the nostalgia act, not the babyfaces. If they have had a heel team from the 80s they'd also get cheered.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 14:03
by Big Red Machine
cero2k wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 13:42
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 10:39
I mean, you're right, but the fact remains that there were people there cheering babyfaces, and I hope that future NWA shows don't snuff out that magic
they were cheering the nostalgia act, not the babyfaces. If they have had a heel team from the 80s they'd also get cheered.
This.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: Apr 30th, '19, 14:17
by NWK2000
cero2k wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 13:42
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 30th, '19, 10:39
I mean, you're right, but the fact remains that there were people there cheering babyfaces, and I hope that future NWA shows don't snuff out that magic
they were cheering the nostalgia act, not the babyfaces. If they have had a heel team from the 80s they'd also get cheered.
And so they were kept babyface in order to give the crowd a reason to cheer. But, people still were cheering The Briscoes anyway. I hope that NWA continues to read crowds correctly as such, and not give into the indy pandering and just have guys do moves.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: May 1st, '19, 20:58
by Big Red Machine
I've only gotten up to the women's match, but I'm pretty sure we're watching entirely different shows.

Re: NWK Reviews ROH/NWA Crockett Cup 2019 (MARTY VS ALDIS)

Posted: May 1st, '19, 22:19
by Big Red Machine
NWK2000 wrote:
Apr 29th, '19, 15:59

Crockett Cup Semi-Finals
Villain Enterprises (PCO and Brody King) vs The Briscoe Brothers


Jay and Brody start, doing strike exchanges. Dem Boys powder out, and then Mark and PCO get tagged in, more crazy strike exchanges. PCO only gets knocked down when The Briscoes do tag team things, which is a wonderful piece of storytellng about how good a tag team Dem Boys are. PCO has Brody chop him because he's an insane person. Mark lands on his feet in a back body drop for a hot tag which ruled. We then get a series of crazy brutal looking spot. PCO crash and burns on an apron cannonball, holy shit. FROGGY BO TO THE OUTSIDE! WE'VE GOT A BRAWL ON OUR HANDS FOLKS. Chairs are used which warrants a DQ. and sets up interest in a No DQ match in the future.
The problem is that they already did this finish with these same teams last month in Baltimore.