The Shows Need to be Longer (Yes, Really)

[Big Red Machine]

I'm not suggesting a return to everything being a 3 1/2+ hour marathon the way it often felt like it was in the Gabe Era, but I do think that the current formula of shooting for 2:20-2:45 isn't giving the matches enough time to live up to their potential, and as a result ROH is not creating any buzz and talent aren't being given the time necessary to really break out. I firmly believe that in a company like ROH, if you want to create a push that feels like it is coming organically from the people as much as it is from the booking, a wrestler has to start putting on stand-out matches before the push really starts so that the people want to see him get pushed by the time the push comes. I think this is what has hindered guys like Dijak and will probably also hurt the likes of Gresham and Rush as well. To give these guys the chance they need to "earn" their push in the fans eyes, ROH needs to give them more time without also reducing the time the big names get, and that means longer shows.

Also, the fairly large roster Delirious seems to like to have means more matches on the show, so a longer show gives each match more time.

I think the place ROH has been hurt most by this is on PPV. With the changeover of all of the big shows being traditional PPV, ROH has now become stuck with just a three-hour window for their biggest shows, when they need to be blowing people away. If I were ROH I would try to get a 3 1/2 hour block for my PPVs to give each match more time to deliver (especially the main events) (and if the PPV company doesn't sell 3 1/2 hour blocks I'd go up to 4 like GFW got for last year's Tokyo Dome. I wouldn't necessarily have the show go the full four hours, but with Delirious' style of booking, three has repeatedly proven itself to not be long enough).

Also, if possible, I think it would help a lot to switch to a two-hour TV show format (like most "big league" wrestling shows have been for the past two decades), cutting down to two episodes per tapings, and increasing the number of tapings as opposed to DVD/VOD shows to make up for this (which would also eliminate the problem of having some house shows that feel like they serve no purpose other than to have a show, which has been an issue for the past year or two).

[cero2k]

i think the thing that would help the most would be to reduce the amount of matches per show, looking at Final Battle there are like 2-3 matches that could just be featured on a TV taping or a road to show and use that time for other matches. Just going by WWE, it's really hard to stay focused for more than 3 hrs unless your product is NJPW level. I think ROH should take an idea from them and do more [show title] FROM [random city] shows and break certain shows and feuds into two weekends.

a 2 hr tv show would be good i guess because it could help with the lower card and continuity, but again, judging from current products, NXT and Lucha are so easy to watch, Impact is ok, RAW is almost impossible to watch all 3 hrs and stay focused.

[Big Red Machine]

i think the thing that would help the most would be to reduce the amount of matches per show, looking at Final Battle there are like 2-3 matches that could just be featured on a TV taping or a road to show and use that time for other matches. Just going by WWE, it's really hard to stay focused for more than 3 hrs unless your product is NJPW level. I think ROH should take an idea from them and do more [show title] FROM [random city] shows and break certain shows and feuds into two weekends.

[/quote]
Not all of the matches on the card need to be on Final Battle, but I'd say the only one that really should be moved is the MCMG & Dijak vs. Don't You Dare Call Us The Cabinet Anymore. If Silas is going to beat Liger than his big win should be at FInal Battle. Colt vs. Dalton should be there because it's an important feud, and you can do what they did with Page vs. Whitmer at the 14th Anniversary Show (but shorter) and give Colt the heel win to continue the program and protect Dalton in the short loss. (Then, at the TV Tapings you can have Dalton want another match against Colt but Colt brings in his buddy Homicide- who taught him the lesson he is trying to teach Dalton) to face Dalton for the big New York pop. And even with the Dijak & MCMG vs, Caprice & ANX match there is an artistic reason to have that match on the show, which is that they have been pushing that The Addiction is very disappointed that they won't be on Final Battle because of their recent string of losses, so having more guys on the show helps with that.

Also, I think you're giving New Japan too much credit... or maybe too little credit. With New Japan it is also hard to stay focused for more than three hours or so, but New Japan cleverly books a bunch of totally pointless matches at the bottom of the card so when you really start paying attention around match three or four you have saved all of your three hours for the important stuff, as opposed to an American style show which throws either important segments at the beginning of the show to hook you (in case of TV) or a hot, fast-paced opener to get the crowd into the show in the case of a non-TV show (including both PPV and indy shows). Gabe seems to be catching on to this concept as well.

a 2 hr tv show would be good i guess because it could help with the lower card and continuity, but again, judging from current products, NXT and Lucha are so easy to watch, Impact is ok, RAW is almost impossible to watch all 3 hrs and stay focused.

I think a 2 hour ROH show would be most comparable to NXT because it would (ideally) have a rather tight focus and go with longer matches a la the NJPW on AXS show. It would definitely be easier to watch than Impact or SD.

[cero2k]

Not all of the matches on the card need to be on Final Battle, but I'd say the only one that really should be moved is the MCMG & Dijak vs. Don't You Dare Call Us The Cabinet Anymore. If Silas is going to beat Liger than his big win should be at FInal Battle. Colt vs. Dalton should be there because it's an important feud, and you can do what they did with Page vs. Whitmer at the 14th Anniversary Show (but shorter) and give Colt the heel win to continue the program and protect Dalton in the short loss. (Then, at the TV Tapings you can have Dalton want another match against Colt but Colt brings in his buddy Homicide- who taught him the lesson he is trying to teach Dalton) to face Dalton for the big New York pop. And even with the Dijak & MCMG vs, Caprice & ANX match there is an artistic reason to have that match on the show, which is that they have been pushing that The Addiction is very disappointed that they won't be on Final Battle because of their recent string of losses, so having more guys on the show helps with that.
I think Dalton vs Cabana does kinda belong, I was thinking more as in Cody vs Lethal, that could main event a non-show, i understand (same with Liger) that you wanna showcase the stars from somewhere else, but those matches could actually help sell lesser shows during the same weekend


Also, I think you're giving New Japan too much credit... or maybe too little credit. With New Japan it is also hard to stay focused for more than three hours or so, but New Japan cleverly books a bunch of totally pointless matches at the bottom of the card so when you really start paying attention around match three or four you have saved all of your three hours for the important stuff, as opposed to an American style show which throws either important segments at the beginning of the show to hook you (in case of TV) or a hot, fast-paced opener to get the crowd into the show in the case of a non-TV show (including both PPV and indy shows). Gabe seems to be catching on to this concept as well.
yeah, pretty much what i meant, and ROH is usually good at this flow when it comes to PPVs, but tv wise they don't always do it because of the huge amount of commercials and backstage promos they run. 2 hrs would help them more than it would hurt them, hoping they really take advantage of it
.

[Big Red Machine]

Not all of the matches on the card need to be on Final Battle, but I'd say the only one that really should be moved is the MCMG & Dijak vs. Don't You Dare Call Us The Cabinet Anymore. If Silas is going to beat Liger than his big win should be at FInal Battle. Colt vs. Dalton should be there because it's an important feud, and you can do what they did with Page vs. Whitmer at the 14th Anniversary Show (but shorter) and give Colt the heel win to continue the program and protect Dalton in the short loss. (Then, at the TV Tapings you can have Dalton want another match against Colt but Colt brings in his buddy Homicide- who taught him the lesson he is trying to teach Dalton) to face Dalton for the big New York pop. And even with the Dijak & MCMG vs, Caprice & ANX match there is an artistic reason to have that match on the show, which is that they have been pushing that The Addiction is very disappointed that they won't be on Final Battle because of their recent string of losses, so having more guys on the show helps with that.
I think Dalton vs Cabana does kinda belong, I was thinking more as in Cody vs Lethal, that could main event a non-show, i understand (same with Liger) that you wanna showcase the stars from somewhere else, but those matches could actually help sell lesser shows during the same weekend
There are no other shows that weekend other than the TV taping. Cody needs to be there. Everywhere he has been he has come off like a big star, so people should have to pay to see his ROH debut. Also, without that match Lethal would be left without a match.