BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

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BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 12th, '18, 14:08

PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1 (4/20/2018)- Reseda, CA


TREVOR LEE vs. REY HORUS- 6.5/10
Trevor Lee cut a heel promo before the match in which he also vowed to leave PWG’s final weekend in Reseda as the PWG World Champion. Horus then hit him with a hurricanrana and almost pinned him right then and there.
They did more stuff for a while. Count-outs were actually being enforced in this match, which made me happy. Then we got a spot where Rey Horus made sure to roll into the ring and then roll back out to break up a count-out… and then he picked up a chair and threw it at Trevor Lee’s head, right in front of the still counting referee, who did nothing about it. Other than that, this was just a series of spots that made sense in the order they were performed in, but had no real story to them. Well… I guess maybe you could claim Trevor’s attempts to cheat were a story, but it’s hard for me to get angry at Trevor for “cheating” when it was apparently perfectly legal for Rey Horus to hit him in the face with a chair.

TAIJI ISHIMORI vs. BANDIDO- 7/10
Like the previous match this was just a series of spots in a logical order, but the spots here were more impressively athletic.

RINGKAMPF vs. VIOLENCE UNLIMITED (Brody King & Tyler Bateman)- 8/10
Oh my G-d these guys BEAT THE LIVING SH*T OUT OF EACH OTHER! Bateman in particular took a beating. He must owe RingKampf money.

“FLASH” MORGAN WEBSTER vs. SAMMY GUERVARA vs. ROBBIE EAGLES- 4.5/10
An over-choreographed three-way spotfest.

JOEY JANELA vs. JONAH ROCK- 6.75/10
A very good match aside from that one spot in the beginning where Janela knocked Rock down with a shoulder tackle, which completely went against the story they would go on to tell (that Rock had a massive size and power advantage over Janela).

KEITH LEE vs. ADAM PAGE- 8.25/10
Page apparently only tanned himself on the front side, and the fans got on his back about it (see what I did there?). It really doesn’t matter, though, because I’m sure that by the time this match is over, both sides of his torso will be the same shade of red.
This was just a “big moves” match but they did an excellent job of making sure every move meant something. They did a good job making Lee’s size meaningful without making it seem like Page lifting him at the end was totally hokey… although that was probably helped by the fact it looked like Page basically dropped Lee while doing for that Piledriver at the end, turning into almost a Reverse Ganso Bomb, which is not a thing I ever need to see again. AWESOME match.

PWG WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Chosen Bros.(c) vs. The Young Bucks vs. The Rascalz (Zachary Wentz & Dezmond Xavier)- 8.5/10
This was a very fun, exciting, fast-paced match. It was spotty, but it felt appropriately spotty, given the fact that this is PWG and it’s a three-way tag for the titles in the main event of the show. There was a lot of impressive and creative stuff in here and I really liked it, aside from the following issue.
Here is a list of the six biggest pops in this match:
6. Second ref bump
5. Rascalz pin Cobb to become new PWG World Tag Team Champions
4. First Ref Bump
3. PWG Senior Referee Rick Knox comes out after the second ref bump to count the Bucks’ pinfall
2. Knox stops counting for no reason other than he doesn’t like the Bucks and flips them off
1. Knox superkicks one of the Bucks.
Why is the f*cking referee the star? And more importantly, why did he even do this? If you saw the Bucks do something wrong and you’re the senior referee, just disqualify the Bucks and restart the match with just the Chosen Bros. and The Rascalz… or if you can’t disqualify them then it’s a no DQs match and they did nothing wrong. Rick Knox should be fired, and the Young Bucks should be the rightful champions… which kind of sh*ts all over the fact that this was supposed to be The Rascalz big, establishing title win, doesn’t it?

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- good for what it was
The Bucks showed Rascalz respect after the match, then gave a nice speech.

A pretty great show for PWG, and the Bucks’ speech certainly makes it something you should go out of your way to see if you’re a big PWG fan.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by cero2k » Jun 14th, '18, 09:19

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 12th, '18, 14:08
PWG WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Chosen Bros.(c) vs. The Young Bucks vs. The Rascalz (Zachary Wentz & Dezmond Xavier)- 8.5/10

Why is the f*cking referee the star?
Why? because it's Rick fucking Knox, he's definitely a bigger star than Cobb and the Rascalz in the state of california.

And more importantly, why did he even do this? If you saw the Bucks do something wrong and you’re the senior referee, just disqualify the Bucks and restart the match with just the Chosen Bros. and The Rascalz… or if you can’t disqualify them then it’s a no DQs match and they did nothing wrong. Rick Knox should be fired, and the Young Bucks should be the rightful champions… which kind of sh*ts all over the fact that this was supposed to be The Rascalz big, establishing title win, doesn’t it?
You're really good at taking an exciting match and stopping it and making it less exciting.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 14th, '18, 14:32

cero2k wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 09:19
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 12th, '18, 14:08
PWG WORLD TAG TEAM TITLE MATCH: The Chosen Bros.(c) vs. The Young Bucks vs. The Rascalz (Zachary Wentz & Dezmond Xavier)- 8.5/10

Why is the f*cking referee the star?
Why? because it's Rick fucking Knox, he's definitely a bigger star than Cobb and the Rascalz in the state of california.
Does he sell any tickets?

And more importantly, why did he even do this? If you saw the Bucks do something wrong and you’re the senior referee, just disqualify the Bucks and restart the match with just the Chosen Bros. and The Rascalz… or if you can’t disqualify them then it’s a no DQs match and they did nothing wrong. Rick Knox should be fired, and the Young Bucks should be the rightful champions… which kind of sh*ts all over the fact that this was supposed to be The Rascalz big, establishing title win, doesn’t it?
You're really good at taking an exciting match and stopping it and making it less exciting.
Please realize that you are currently defending a Vince Russo finish, using Russo's own logic.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by cero2k » Jun 14th, '18, 15:10

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 14:32
Does he sell any tickets?
hard to say, he's never announced and they still sell out. I'm sure if PWG announces it's Knox's final show or that he is in a fight, he will definitely sell

Please realize that you are currently defending a Vince Russo finish, using Russo's own logic.
it's PWG. It's exciting especially when you're there
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 14th, '18, 19:35

cero2k wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 15:10
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 14:32
Does he sell any tickets?
hard to say, he's never announced and they still sell out. I'm sure if PWG announces it's Knox's final show or that he is in a fight, he will definitely sell
So why isn't he a wrestler then? There is no way to justify doing a series of spots just because of an on-going grudge between the top tag team in the company and a freakin' referee.
Please realize that you are currently defending a Vince Russo finish, using Russo's own logic.
it's PWG. It's exciting especially when you're there
Which is exactly what Vince Russo would say.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by cero2k » Jun 14th, '18, 19:54

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 19:35
So why isn't he a wrestler then? There is no way to justify doing a series of spots just because of an on-going grudge between the top tag team in the company and a freakin' referee.
you mean aside from being an old man who's body couldn't do a whole match? Do you HAVE to be a wrestler to do spots in matches? Do you not think that Vince or Sherri Martel or Fonzy or Shane or Steph are draws?

Which is exactly what Vince Russo would say.
well in this case it's true, if it works and people love it, then it's good.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 14th, '18, 21:48

cero2k wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 19:54
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 19:35
So why isn't he a wrestler then? There is no way to justify doing a series of spots just because of an on-going grudge between the top tag team in the company and a freakin' referee.
you mean aside from being an old man who's body couldn't do a whole match? Do you HAVE to be a wrestler to do spots in matches? Do you not think that Vince or Sherri Martel or Fonzy or Shane or Steph are draws?
No. But none of those people did spots in matches where the story wasn't about them, never mind had a big series of spots in the match built around them. Shane didn't do a run-in in Vince vs. Hogan because it wasn't about him.

Which is exactly what Vince Russo would say.
well in this case it's true, if it works and people love it, then it's good.
You are entitled to that opinion if you are prepared to accept it in all situations. How do you feel about Braun Strowman Tag Team Partner Nicholas?
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by cero2k » Jun 18th, '18, 09:06

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 21:48
You are entitled to that opinion if you are prepared to accept it in all situations. How do you feel about Braun Strowman Tag Team Partner Nicholas?
the Strowman kid is somewhat different because it was out of nowhere, no build up, no consequences, and it devalue the championship. Having said that, people love that stuff and I don't mind that they do it in WWE because that is what WWE does, childish things. This is what PWG does, if they do it in Omega vs Okada, i wouldn't like it because it's not what NJPW does. Not every promotion is the same.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 18th, '18, 09:25

cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 09:06
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 14th, '18, 21:48
You are entitled to that opinion if you are prepared to accept it in all situations. How do you feel about Braun Strowman Tag Team Partner Nicholas?
the Strowman kid is somewhat different because it was out of nowhere, no build up, no consequences, and it devalue the championship. Having said that, people love that stuff and I don't mind that they do it in WWE because that is what WWE does, childish things. This is what PWG does, if they do it in Omega vs Okada, i wouldn't like it because it's not what NJPW does. Not every promotion is the same.
So then why is Darryl okay? Or Ospreay pretending to be a cat? Or why is it okay for ROH to suddenly shift to being a comedy promotion?
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by cero2k » Jun 18th, '18, 11:22

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 09:25
So then why is Darryl okay? Or Ospreay pretending to be a cat? Or why is it okay for ROH to suddenly shift to being a comedy promotion?
arguably, ROH has been doing shitty WWE-light stuff for a while since joining Sinclair, and they used to have comedy long before. Cheeseburger, Redneck Kung Fu, Hoopla, Generico. As we've talked before, ROH is doing a lot of business now that they're doing this shtick and money talks.

In both cases, I'd say that it's ok since it goes with the gimmick of certain wrestlers, in this case, takahashi bringing both Daryll and Cat Ospreay into life. The day that I see Jay Briscoe or Silas Young playing with stuffed animals or promoting panckaes, that day i'll say they've jumped the shark. Unless they make money out of it.

The one thing i do think is that at least NJPW kinda moved on on both things and when things NEED to be serious, they ARE serious. ROH has been doing the Daryll thing months later after that damn cat died. ROH is like WWE that they take something that gets over somewhere else and milks it over and over and over.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 18th, '18, 12:05

cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 11:22
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 09:25
So then why is Darryl okay? Or Ospreay pretending to be a cat? Or why is it okay for ROH to suddenly shift to being a comedy promotion?
arguably, ROH has been doing shitty WWE-light stuff for a while since joining Sinclair, and they used to have comedy long before. Cheeseburger, Redneck Kung Fu, Hoopla, Generico. As we've talked before, ROH is doing a lot of business now that they're doing this shtick and money talks.
I disagree with most of this. The current ROH set-up is a late 2015/early 2016 invention. What they started doing after joining Sinclair was definitely not WWE-lite. It was a frustrating blend of ROH-level talent being stuck in old southern or OVW-esque angles that either felt outdated or like they weren't moving along at a reasonable pace. Once Delirious takes over (and especially once the SCUM angle ends) it starts to feel relatively ROH-y again until that mid-2015 point when they start veering into WWE (and occasionally even TNA) territory.
Cheeseburger first showed up in 2013, and most of the comedy ROH had had up until about 2015 (aside from the occasional match that was some combination of Kikutaro, Delirious, and Cabana) wasn't farcical. Redneck Kung Fu and most of Cabana's shtick are perfect examples of this. They were comedic, but made sense within the confines of a professional wrestling match. Truth's Hoopla stuff was character-establishing (or, I guess, maybe "character redefining" since he dropped the whole cult leader con-man part of the gimmick around the time the Hoopla stuff really started up), and with the exception of A Night of Hoopla, which they made clear from the beginning was kinda-sorta out of continuity and technically wasn't even an ROH-branded event (within kayfabe), none of that stuff was farcical.

Yes, ROH is doing a lot of business now with this shtick, but there is no reason to believe that they couldn't be doing even more business by toning the shtick down at the appropriate times (which, for example, the Young Bucks have been doing a great job of recently) and allowing the matches to be better and booking more coherent, intelligent, logical storylines instead of literally just relying on shtick for 80% of the show. If ROH is anything-lite right now it's not WWE-lite; it's PWG-lite... and the thing that they are being lite on isn't the gimmickry, it's the in-ring quality and the level of talent they use, which used to be two of the big four hallmarks of ROH (along with clean finishes and great booking).



cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 11:22
In both cases, I'd say that it's ok since it goes with the gimmick of certain wrestlers, in this case, takahashi bringing both Daryll and Cat Ospreay into life. The day that I see Jay Briscoe or Silas Young playing with stuffed animals or promoting panckaes, that day i'll say they've jumped the shark. Unless they make money out of it.
You say it "goes with the gimmick of certain wrestlers," but it never went with Hiromu's gimmick to bring a stuffed cat to the ring before he randomly started doing it.

cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 11:22 The one thing i do think is that at least NJPW kinda moved on on both things and when things NEED to be serious, they ARE serious. ROH has been doing the Daryll thing months later after that damn cat died. ROH is like WWE that they take something that gets over somewhere else and milks it over and over and over.
I agree on that, but with the addendum that it's not just an ROH problem of not being serious when you need to. Omega, the Young Bucks, and Dalton Castle in particular (and mostly last year) were just horrid, putting together these main event matches that would just alternate between trying to be a main event wrestling match and then doing comedy, completely ruining serious wrestling matches by chopping them up (they did it in ROH, in PWG, in OTT, and I'm sure in other places as well).
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by cero2k » Jun 18th, '18, 14:21

Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 12:05 Yes, ROH is doing a lot of business now with this shtick, but there is no reason to believe that they couldn't be doing even more business by toning the shtick down at the appropriate times (which, for example, the Young Bucks have been doing a great job of recently) and allowing the matches to be better and booking more coherent, intelligent, logical storylines instead of literally just relying on shtick for 80% of the show. If ROH is anything-lite right now it's not WWE-lite; it's PWG-lite... and the thing that they are being lite on isn't the gimmickry, it's the in-ring quality and the level of talent they use, which used to be two of the big four hallmarks of ROH (along with clean finishes and great booking).
I don't disagree that adding seriousness to certain things would improve a lot of things, but I don't know if it would mean more business per say. I haven't been to the ROH forums in awhile, but i haven't seen many people stop watching ROH due to the silliness, rather more Delirious not building anyone or any feud anymore.

cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 11:22 You say it "goes with the gimmick of certain wrestlers," but it never went with Hiromu's gimmick to bring a stuffed cat to the ring before he randomly started doing it.
it's not the gimmick specifically, but Hiromu's gimmick is somewhat as in 'no one knows what he'll do next' type, ticking Time Bomb. He used to talk to his championship, he had a cat, he has his books during BOSJ, stuff like that. if there is a way to describe his gimmick is indeed 'Randomly starting doing shit'
cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 11:22 I agree on that, but with the addendum that it's not just an ROH problem of not being serious when you need to. Omega, the Young Bucks, and Dalton Castle in particular (and mostly last year) were just horrid, putting together these main event matches that would just alternate between trying to be a main event wrestling match and then doing comedy, completely ruining serious wrestling matches by chopping them up (they did it in ROH, in PWG, in OTT, and I'm sure in other places as well).
Can't say for OTT and PWG is arguably free-for-all when it comes to seriousness. ROH is the promotion where it sticks out, especially for you and me that have been watching ROH since it was THE promotion of honor.
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG All-Star Weekend 14: Night 1

Post by Big Red Machine » Jun 18th, '18, 20:44

cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 14:21
Big Red Machine wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 12:05 Yes, ROH is doing a lot of business now with this shtick, but there is no reason to believe that they couldn't be doing even more business by toning the shtick down at the appropriate times (which, for example, the Young Bucks have been doing a great job of recently) and allowing the matches to be better and booking more coherent, intelligent, logical storylines instead of literally just relying on shtick for 80% of the show. If ROH is anything-lite right now it's not WWE-lite; it's PWG-lite... and the thing that they are being lite on isn't the gimmickry, it's the in-ring quality and the level of talent they use, which used to be two of the big four hallmarks of ROH (along with clean finishes and great booking).
I don't disagree that adding seriousness to certain things would improve a lot of things, but I don't know if it would mean more business per say. I haven't been to the ROH forums in awhile, but i haven't seen many people stop watching ROH due to the silliness, rather more Delirious not building anyone or any feud anymore.
The two schools of thought seem to be "it's un-ROH and they shouldn't be doing it" and "this is the way it is now and it's making money so why are you complaining?"



cero2k wrote: Jun 18th, '18, 11:22 I agree on that, but with the addendum that it's not just an ROH problem of not being serious when you need to. Omega, the Young Bucks, and Dalton Castle in particular (and mostly last year) were just horrid, putting together these main event matches that would just alternate between trying to be a main event wrestling match and then doing comedy, completely ruining serious wrestling matches by chopping them up (they did it in ROH, in PWG, in OTT, and I'm sure in other places as well).
Can't say for OTT and PWG is arguably free-for-all when it comes to seriousness. ROH is the promotion where it sticks out, especially for you and me that have been watching ROH since it was THE promotion of honor.
[/quote]
What I'm saying here is that the way they build the comedy into the match inhibits the match's ability to build up drama because ratehr than doing comedy first, then seriousness, they keep flipping back and forth, and comedy stuff inherently resets the drama.
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