BRM Reviews PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2017: Stage 2

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Big Red Machine
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BRM Reviews PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2017: Stage 2

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 28th, '17, 17:46

PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2017: Stage 2 (9/2/2017)- Reseda, CA

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Trevor Lee vs. Donovan Dijak- 7/10
Even Trevor Lee’s “Impact Wrestling Superstar” gimmick is getting cheered now. Damn smarks killing a heel's ability to get heat. They put on a match full of heymakers (mostly metaphorical, but there were a few literal ones in there as well), but they paced it well enough that it didn’t feel like a spotfest. Great opener.

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Sammy Guevara vs. Joey Janela- 3.5/10
I guess there are just no DQs in this match? Also, I guess Sammy Guevara doesn’t really care about permanently f*cking up his spine with one move, based on that bump he took onto that chair. Janela going for a Swanton Bomb and landing on nothing but the apron looked more comfortable. After that spot we got a count-out tease, because chairs are okay but there are still count-outs. Whatever.
Janela tried another Swanton, which resulted in him destroying an unfolded chair. Then Guevara gave him a Burning Hammer onto the chair and I doubt you’ll even be surprised to learn that Janela kicked out of something generally considered to be a death move, hit onto a chair to boot, in the second match on the card because PWG is an indy, with all of the positive and negative connotations that go with that label.
Joey got up but Guevara nailed him with a poisonrana, then hit his 630 for the pin because a Burning Hammer onto a chair wasn’t good enough; he had to hit his f*cking move to get the win. This match took everything that Lee and Dijak just did right to make their spot-heavy match not feel like two spot-monkeys playing wrestler, and did it wrong. If those aforementioned big bumps they took hadn’t been legitimately painful, I doubt they would have even sold their backs.

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Mark Haskins vs. Travis Banks- 7/10
No DQs in this one, either, as Haskins threw some chairs at Banks right in front of the referee, who did nothing. Banks actually no-sold the chairs, but they were light plastic chairs and didn’t seem like they were going past enough to really hurt so it worked. The match was fine but a bit disjointed until the last five minutes or so, which were quite great, despite a bit of awkwardness on the finish, which might have been due to Haskins being legitimately knocked out. Either that, or some confusion on the referee’s part as to what type of finish it was supposed to be.

MATT SYDAL & RICOCHET vs. THE LEADERS OF THE NEW SCHOOL (Marty Scurll & Zack Sabre Jr.)- 8.75/10
Zack & Marty jumped Sydal & Ricochet from behind during their entrance, which got some heat because it’s something that happens so rarely in PWG. This was your standard athletic but chaotic PWG style match, but with some actual babyface vs. heel dynamics replacing the comedy. This is what I would like to see more of (although I wouldn’t mind if we did actually try to pay attention to who the legal wrestlers are throughout the match). The weekend is now about half over, and half way through it, this is the clear Match of the Weekend. AWESOME tag team wrestling.

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Jeff Cobb vs. Sami Callihan- 6.25/10
Sami jumped the bell on Cobb. Unlike in the previous instances of jump=starting this weekend, where the referee has just let the match start, this time he tried to pull Sami off of Cobb. Is it really that hard to be consistent with this? Furthermore, the referee pulling Sami off led to Cobb being able to charge across the ring and nail Sami, immediately taking control of the match and all but erasing the jumpstart…so why even do the jumpstart in the first place?

Cobb dropkicked Sami in the chest while Sami was sitting on the top turnbuckle! That was pretty nuts. Other than that, this mostly felt like a pile of stuff. They had a bit of a story revolving around Cobb trying to hit the Tour of the Islands, but that was a small percentage of the match.

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Matt Riddle vs. Michael Elgin- 8.25/10
They told a great story pitting Elgin’s power against Riddle’s technique and did a great job building things up throughout the match. The only thing I would have changed would have been to have Riddle win with some sort of submission or referee stoppage as opposed to by hitting a power move (his cradle “tombstone piledriver” even though the other guy lands flat on his back).

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Keith Lee vs. WALTER- 7.5/10
See Hoss. See Hoss wrestle. Wrestle, Hoss, wrestle.
That’s right! They started off with arm and wrist holds. And it was GLORIOUS! This was a wonderful hoss-fight, going from holds to strikes to suplexes to raw power and back around again. They lost a bit of steam towards the end, but other than that, this was GREAT! If you like watching big dudes wrestle each other, then this is the match for you.

REY FENIX, PENTA EL 0M, & FLAMITA vs. THE ELITE (Kenny Omega & the Young Bucks)- 6.75/10
I popped huge for that repeated arm cranker from the apron spot solely because of the number of times everyone does it in ROH and it’s always one of those totally cartoonish “the heels screwed up and hurt each other” spots that seeing it actually done as a straight wrestling move made me very happy. These guys actually also wound up doing it as a cartoonish “the heels screwed up and hurt each other” comedy spot, too, but at least they built up to it, as opposed to in ROH where you what’s going to happen every time Daniels or Kazarian or whoever else calls for the move.
I mention this spot for two interconnected reasons. The first is to praise them for doing a comedy spot that made sense and in a way that made it feel like they weren’t just out to do comedy. The second reason is to contrast it with some of the other comedy spots they did, like Omega and the Bucks pretending to hit each other, or the stupid “N BOOTS!” spot where some number of members of Bullet Club not involved in the match (in this case just Marty Scurll) come out and add their feet to a giant pile-up by the top turnbuckle so that the legal member of Bullet Club can slam the opponent’s head into the pile, all of which happens in full view of the referee who doesn’t call for a DQ for this outside involvement.
The difference between good comedy in wrestling and bad comedy is that good comedy, no matter how goofy, still stems from the basic idea that this is something someone is trying to do in order to win the wrestling match. Omega and Yano put on a masterclass in how to do this during the G1. The first spot I mentioned falls into this category (although I feel it is often overdone in ROH and is often done at completely inappropriate times like main events). The other stuff The Elite did tonight is bad because it doesn’t stem from that one point. It’s just guys doing funny things to be funny and make the audience laugh when their job in kayfabe is to be successful combat athletes, not comedians.
That sort of stuff really brought this match down for me. Not just the bad comedy spots themselves, but the way they were inserted into the match killed any momentum they had developed with their actual wrestling spots, and so instead of a cohesive story- even if that story was just bell-to-bell action, with each team trying to win- we got what felt like several interchangeable series of spots broken up by several interchangeable comedy spots. Aside from the first bit of stuff they did, there was nothing that felt like a beginning, a middle, and an end. The pinfall at the end ended the match, but you could have taken any other move in the match out of its place and inserted it after the finishing move and put the pin there and it wouldn’t have felt out of place. It was fine if you’re just looking for random action and comedy and referees counting pins even though there are three wrestlers covering the same person, but that’s not what I want out of a big main event, and not what I want out of a match involving arguably the hottest wrestler in the world.


Another great night of action from PWG. It was a lot like last night’s show, with solid wrestling most of the way through, but with both higher highs and lower lows, including the disappointing main event. Hopefully the final night will be better.


Hold #712: ARM BAR!

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Re: BRM Reviews PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2017: Stage 2

Post by cero2k » Oct 30th, '17, 10:40

Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 28th, '17, 17:46

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Mark Haskins vs. Travis Banks- 7/10
No DQs in this one, either, as Haskins threw some chairs at Banks right in front of the referee, who did nothing. Banks actually no-sold the chairs, but they were light plastic chairs and didn’t seem like they were going past enough to really hurt so it worked. The match was fine but a bit disjointed until the last five minutes or so, which were quite great, despite a bit of awkwardness on the finish, which might have been due to Haskins being legitimately knocked out. Either that, or some confusion on the referee’s part as to what type of finish it was supposed to be.
throwing a chair is not a DQ, it's not your fault if the other person doesn't catches it (or in this case Banks just punched it away), it's the same with the vandaminator, it's not a DQ hitting a chair if the other person is holding it

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Jeff Cobb vs. Sami Callihan- 6.25/10
Sami jumped the bell on Cobb. Unlike in the previous instances of jump=starting this weekend, where the referee has just let the match start, this time he tried to pull Sami off of Cobb. Is it really that hard to be consistent with this? Furthermore, the referee pulling Sami off led to Cobb being able to charge across the ring and nail Sami, immediately taking control of the match and all but erasing the jumpstart…so why even do the jumpstart in the first place?
was it the same ref ?

REY FENIX, PENTA EL 0M, & FLAMITA vs. THE ELITE (Kenny Omega & the Young Bucks)- 6.75/10

The difference between good comedy in wrestling and bad comedy is that good comedy, no matter how goofy, still stems from the basic idea that this is something someone is trying to do in order to win the wrestling match. Omega and Yano put on a masterclass in how to do this during the G1. The first spot I mentioned falls into this category (although I feel it is often overdone in ROH and is often done at completely inappropriate times like main events). The other stuff The Elite did tonight is bad because it doesn’t stem from that one point. It’s just guys doing funny things to be funny and make the audience laugh when their job in kayfabe is to be successful combat athletes, not comedians.
tweet that to Colt Cabana
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2017: Stage 2

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 30th, '17, 10:56

cero2k wrote:
Oct 30th, '17, 10:40
Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 28th, '17, 17:46

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Mark Haskins vs. Travis Banks- 7/10
No DQs in this one, either, as Haskins threw some chairs at Banks right in front of the referee, who did nothing. Banks actually no-sold the chairs, but they were light plastic chairs and didn’t seem like they were going past enough to really hurt so it worked. The match was fine but a bit disjointed until the last five minutes or so, which were quite great, despite a bit of awkwardness on the finish, which might have been due to Haskins being legitimately knocked out. Either that, or some confusion on the referee’s part as to what type of finish it was supposed to be.
throwing a chair is not a DQ, it's not your fault if the other person doesn't catches it (or in this case Banks just punched it away), it's the same with the vandaminator, it's not a DQ hitting a chair if the other person is holding it
Sure they are DQs. They've always been. You shouldn't be throwing a chair in the first place. That's like saying "if I throw a bowling ball at your head and it hits you I shouldn't be DQed because you were "supposed" to duck it," or that referees in hockey shouldn't penalize people for high sticking because it's not their fault the other guy's head bumped into their stick. The infraction is considered to be your fault because you're doing something you shouldn't be (throwing a foreign object or holding your stick blade above your waist).

BATTLE OF LOS ANGELES FIRST-ROUND MATCH: Jeff Cobb vs. Sami Callihan- 6.25/10
Sami jumped the bell on Cobb. Unlike in the previous instances of jump=starting this weekend, where the referee has just let the match start, this time he tried to pull Sami off of Cobb. Is it really that hard to be consistent with this? Furthermore, the referee pulling Sami off led to Cobb being able to charge across the ring and nail Sami, immediately taking control of the match and all but erasing the jumpstart…so why even do the jumpstart in the first place?
was it the same ref ?
Irrelevant. There should be one consistent rule for the promotion. Yes, some umpires have wider strike zones than others, but this isn't a judgment call, it'a procedural one. This is like an umpire deciding that it only takes three balls to walk someone.

REY FENIX, PENTA EL 0M, & FLAMITA vs. THE ELITE (Kenny Omega & the Young Bucks)- 6.75/10

The difference between good comedy in wrestling and bad comedy is that good comedy, no matter how goofy, still stems from the basic idea that this is something someone is trying to do in order to win the wrestling match. Omega and Yano put on a masterclass in how to do this during the G1. The first spot I mentioned falls into this category (although I feel it is often overdone in ROH and is often done at completely inappropriate times like main events). The other stuff The Elite did tonight is bad because it doesn’t stem from that one point. It’s just guys doing funny things to be funny and make the audience laugh when their job in kayfabe is to be successful combat athletes, not comedians.
tweet that to Colt Cabana
He has usually been very good at this. His comedy is almost always about doing things to bother the opponent and get in his head, or trick the opponent into doing something that will help Colt get the win. I almost never feel that he is not trying to win a wrestling match.
Hold #712: ARM BAR!

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Re: BRM Reviews PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2017: Stage 2

Post by cero2k » Oct 30th, '17, 11:15

Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 30th, '17, 10:56

Sure they are DQs. They've always been. You shouldn't be throwing a chair in the first place. That's like saying "if I throw a bowling ball at your head and it hits you I shouldn't be DQed because you were "supposed" to duck it," or that referees in hockey shouldn't penalize people for high sticking because it's not their fault the other guy's head bumped into their stick. The infraction is considered to be your fault because you're doing something you shouldn't be (throwing a foreign object or holding your stick blade above your waist).
punching innanimate objects or throwing something into someone else's hands has been been a dq,
nor it should. Why would i get DQ if I want to punch something? People don't get DQ for throwing a chair into the ring,
they get DQd when they swing the chair into someone


Irrelevant. There should be one consistent rule for the promotion. Yes, some umpires have wider strike zones than others, but this isn't a judgment call, it'a procedural one. This is like an umpire deciding that it only takes three balls to walk someone.
it IS completely different, one ref could think just start the match because he considers both men ready enough, maybe the other wants to allow each guy in their corner. Your example is like if one ref decides to make a 10 count and the other a 20 count, there are rules and then there are refs interpretation

REY FENIX, PENTA EL 0M, & FLAMITA vs. THE ELITE (Kenny Omega & the Young Bucks)- 6.75/10

He has usually been very good at this. His comedy is almost always about doing things to bother the opponent and get in his head, or trick the opponent into doing something that will help Colt get the win. I almost never feel that he is not trying to win a wrestling match.
I've never felt that from Cabana, but fair enough. Anyway, how is it a dq for throwing someone into something and they hit it, let's say that instead you whip small little noam dar into Strowman and obviously without even moving, dar is gonna crash into the brick wall called Strowman, who was literally standing there on purpose, how would that be a DQ? DQs are only when you're straight up swinging for the hit
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Re: BRM Reviews PWG Battle of Los Angeles 2017: Stage 2

Post by Big Red Machine » Oct 30th, '17, 12:34

cero2k wrote:
Oct 30th, '17, 11:15
Big Red Machine wrote:
Oct 30th, '17, 10:56

Sure they are DQs. They've always been. You shouldn't be throwing a chair in the first place. That's like saying "if I throw a bowling ball at your head and it hits you I shouldn't be DQed because you were "supposed" to duck it," or that referees in hockey shouldn't penalize people for high sticking because it's not their fault the other guy's head bumped into their stick. The infraction is considered to be your fault because you're doing something you shouldn't be (throwing a foreign object or holding your stick blade above your waist).
punching innanimate objects or throwing something into someone else's hands has been been a dq,
nor it should. Why would i get DQ if I want to punch something? People don't get DQ for throwing a chair into the ring,
they get DQd when they swing the chair into someone

You don't get DQed for throwing a chair into the ring... unless it hits someone, because hitting someone with a chair- even if you throw it- is a DQ because you're hitting someone with a foreign object with the intent of hurting them. Sabu made a career off of it.

Irrelevant. There should be one consistent rule for the promotion. Yes, some umpires have wider strike zones than others, but this isn't a judgment call, it'a procedural one. This is like an umpire deciding that it only takes three balls to walk someone.
it IS completely different, one ref could think just start the match because he considers both men ready enough, maybe the other wants to allow each guy in their corner. Your example is like if one ref decides to make a 10 count and the other a 20 count, there are rules and then there are refs interpretation
This seems like something there should be rules governing. Your theory falls apart because the referee in the previous match didn't bother to go check on Ricochet & Sydal at all. That's too big a discrepancy right there.

REY FENIX, PENTA EL 0M, & FLAMITA vs. THE ELITE (Kenny Omega & the Young Bucks)- 6.75/10

He has usually been very good at this. His comedy is almost always about doing things to bother the opponent and get in his head, or trick the opponent into doing something that will help Colt get the win. I almost never feel that he is not trying to win a wrestling match.
I've never felt that from Cabana, but fair enough. Anyway, how is it a dq for throwing someone into something and they hit it, let's say that instead you whip small little noam dar into Strowman and obviously without even moving, dar is gonna crash into the brick wall called Strowman, who was literally standing there on purpose, how would that be a DQ? DQs are only when you're straight up swinging for the hit
And I'm saying it's not the literal act of swinging that matters, but rather the act of propelling an illegal object into your opponent that is the infraction. You have picked up an illegal object and are using it to cause harm to your opponent. It's not whether you are still holding the object when it makes contact that is relevant; it's whether or not your force is still acting on the object.

As for why you don't get DQed for throwing people into things like the ring steps... this is definitely one of those things doesn't make much sense but has has been grandfathered in. I rationalize the distinction into two admittedly dubious ways:
1. When you throw opponent into the steps or the barricade or the ringpost or whatever, you are acting on the opponent- in a theoretically legal manner rather than acting upon the illegal object. This is definitely a "letter of the law over the spirit of the law" answer.
2. For something like a table, the reason it is a DQ if you powerbomb someone through it but often isn't for something like an elbow drop, or when Randy does his backdrop spot or when Roman does the spear across the tables is that you are doing something that would be otherwise legal, and the tables being there are otherwise mostly incidental. meaning that if there is a table set up and the other guy staggers over to it and you dive off and hit him with something like an elbow drop, it's okay as long as you didn't put him on the table. You just did your move and the it's not your fault that the table happened to be there. It's the same reason why that double-bump off the apron through Bobby Cruise, Cary Silken, & Scarlett's table that ROH used to do all the time in 2015-2016 isn't a DQ. You're just doing your move and aren't giving any consideration to where everyone will land (as opposed to putting someone on the table for a move, or something like a powerbomb where you set the table up then pick the opponent up and walk over to the table specifically for the purpose of putting him through it.

Hold #712: ARM BAR!

Upcoming Reviews:
WWE in 2005
FIP in 2005
ROH Validation
TNA Victory Road 2008
PWG All-Star Weekend V: Night 2
ECW Guilty As Charged 1999

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