BRM Reviews PWG Nice Boys (Don't Play Rock N' Roll)

[Big Red Machine]

PWG Nice Boys (Don’t Play Rock N’ Roll) (3/18/2017)- Reseda, CA

BRIAN CAGE vs. SAMI CALLIHAN vs KEITH LEE- 8/10
We began with some good three way stuff and hand striking. Lee also got to show off his athleticism. If you thought a guy as big as Sami Callihan getting up to give Cage a hurricanrana was impressive, wait until you see Keith Lee do it. After successfully doing so Lee ordered his opponents to bask in his glory, but instead they bicycle kicked him in his face. They shared a high five… and then Cage kneed Sami in the gut and we went back to a three-way. That was a great sequence.
The whole match can be summed up as three big dudes showing of their strength and athleticism. They hit each other hard, threw each other around, jumped very high, and even flipped around a couple of times. AWESOME opener!

OI4K vs. THE CHOSEN BROS (Matt Riddle & Jeff Cobb)- 6.5/10
We started off with Cobb throwing OI4K around for a while before they managed to isolate him and turn him into the babyface in peril. Good stuff.

LIO RUSH vs. TREVOR LEE- 6.75/10
An exciting, fast-paced babyface vs. heel match.

DEZMOND XAVIER vs. SHANE STRICKLAND- 7.5/10
Fans- not just in PWG, but everywhere- need to stop chanting “SWERVE!” for Shane Strickland immediately! I don’t care if he’s from “Swerve City.” You doing your silly little chant is not worth the risk of Vince Russo seeing this, feeling validated, and using it to con some money mark promoter into letting him book again. For the good of the wrestling business, this chant MUST stop.
Anyway, the match was predictably flippy, but they actually did a good job of selling exhaustion when it was called for. That, some impressive displays of athleticism, combined with a “HOLY F*CK!” to produce a GREAT match.

BEST FRIENDS vs. THE LEADERS OF THE NEW SCHOOL (Zack Sabre Jr. & Marty Scurll)- 9/10
F*ck Best Friends and their kayfabe-breaking t-shirts.
Um… okay. So I guess this is a No DQs match?
This was an excellent babyface vs. heels tag match with great psychology, some great little twists (my favorite was Chuck countering Scurll’s attempt to break his fingers into Sole Food), and, perhaps most importantly, an extremely hot crowd- and not the “making a lot of noise and popping loudly” kind of hot. I mean the kind of hot where you could tell that they really wanted to see the babyfaces win not because of their cool moves or antics or whatever but because they genuinely liked these men and wanted to see them succeed. The finish, which saw Trent pin PWG World Champion Zack Sabre Jr. really felt like it was a huge moment for Trent which could push him up to the next level as a singles wrestler in PWG.

POST-MATCH SEGMENT- Best Friends celebrate together but Marty Scurll attacks them from behind. Marty and Zack beat them up some more with chairs, and then Marty cut a promo.

TORANADO TAG TEAM MATCH FOR THE PWG WORLD TAG TEAM TITLES: The Young Bucks(c) vs. Matt Sydal & Ricochet vs. Penta el 0M & Rey Fenix- 4.75/10
Excalibur clearly said this was a Tornado match but one guy from each team immediately disappeared. I checked the corners of the ring and they weren’t there. I eventually spotted Fenix sitting in the front row or something. Ricochet and the other Buck were nowhere to be found. Some stuff happened, then the Buck and the lucha guys decided to have a comedy match where they dressed up like each other (why were there extra masks under the ring?) while Sydal & Ricochet were nowhere to be found, but apparently they were just sitting around watching these guys be goofballs instead of trying to win the tag titles. Did they both have to go to the bathroom or something? Nope. They went to go dress up like both teams at the same time, because it’s not like this is a main event title match or anything, so it’s all about making the fans laugh instead of trying to win.
So I guess the funny part is over and supposed to take everything seriously now. It’s kind of hard to give a sh*t about anything when you’ve just rubbed in my face that this is all scripted and the goal is to be funny rather than trying to win. Kind of makes the title change at the finish feel like it doesn’t mean sh*t. Even winning and losing don’t mean sh*t. That’s why Penta & Fenix are getting this title shot despite the fact that the last time they wrestled as a team in PWG was the final night of BOLA where they… lost a tag team title match to the Young Bucks, and the only appearance either man has made since then was Fenix losing to Trent at the last show, while the Chosen Bros. beat the Bucks in a non-title match back in December but still haven’t gotten a title shot despite both teams not only being on this show but also both having been on the previous show.
So you know that thing that Rip Rogers posted on Twitter burying the psychology of the stereotypical indy match? This is the tag team version of that. This never once felt like wrestlers trying win a wrestling match. It came across from start to finish like performers doing things for the sole purpose of popping the crowd. It was a spot-fest, pure and simple. A Special K match but with superkicks and some Attitude Era knock-off catchphrases. Oh, and some apron bumps to show us all how tough they are or whatever.


Dive.



This was a really great show from PWG brought down by a bad main event. If you just want to do flips go be an acrobat. If you want to be a professional wrestler you need to at least try to tell a story.

[cero2k]

I figured you wouldn't like the main event for that one spot, but for what it's worth, wrestlers do sometimes keep their merch under the ring because they sell before and after the show.

[Big Red Machine]

I figured you wouldn't like the main event for that one spot, but for what it's worth, wrestlers do sometimes keep their merch under the ring because they sell before and after the show.

1. Then the commentators should mention that
2. I'm pretty sure the Bucks don't sell those jackets.
3. I didn't like the rest of the match much, either. It was just spots. You could chop that match up into four-minute segments and shuffle them around and then play the match and you wouldn't even be able to tell.

[cero2k]

1. Then the commentators should mention that
2. I'm pretty sure the Bucks don't sell those jackets.
3. I didn't like the rest of the match much, either. It was just spots. You could chop that match up into four-minute segments and shuffle them around and then play the match and you wouldn't even be able to tell.

ugh, this is probably gonna start another pwg debate like always, but 1 and 2 are irrelevant, you're trying to find a strict logic into a PWG match of all things, what does it matter if the guys stole the gear or if they had it stored underneath the ring? It's like asking why are there so many tables underneath rings if they aren't even being used anyway anywhere? the answer is you just don't think about it. By now you should know that PWG is 80% worked for the live audience there and is a whole different monster, you can't expect to adhere to the EVOLVE/ROH/WWE/ETC standards that you prefer.

3 is fine, if you don't like spotfests, then that's perfectly ok, some people pay for them, some don't. It's exactly that whole dive debate, some people wanna see 1000 dives, some people still buy to watch old timers do 1000 headlocks. There's no right or wrong.

[Big Red Machine]

1. Then the commentators should mention that
2. I'm pretty sure the Bucks don't sell those jackets.
3. I didn't like the rest of the match much, either. It was just spots. You could chop that match up into four-minute segments and shuffle them around and then play the match and you wouldn't even be able to tell.

ugh, this is probably gonna start another pwg debate like always, but 1 and 2 are irrelevant, you're trying to find a strict logic into a PWG match of all things, what does it matter if the guys stole the gear or if they had it stored underneath the ring? It's like asking why are there so many tables underneath rings if they aren't even being used anyway anywhere? the answer is you just don't think about it. By now you should know that PWG is 80% worked for the live audience there and is a whole different monster, you can't expect to adhere to the EVOLVE/ROH/WWE/ETC standards that you prefer.

The tables are under the ring in case the announcer's table breaks and they need somewhere to put their monitors and notes.
The gear stealing doesn't bother me as much. I still wouldn't have done the spot and really didn't like the Bucks putting on the masks in the first place- or even the whole "I do your taunt, you do my taunt" face-off, but given the situation as it was at that moment, Penta and Fenix putting on the Bucks jackets felt organic. "You're going to dress up like us? Well we're going to take your stuff and dress up like you." Storing the gear under the ring is where I run into a problem because it makes it clear that this whole thing has been set up from the beginning. Like this was the plan. With what Fenix and Penta did, I can pretend it wasn't.
The thing is... it's just PWG anymore. When it was just in PWG I could accept it as a unique PWG quirk. I used to enjoy the stuff we got in those openers with Candice, and P-P-RAY and the Joey Ryan stuff and Sleazy Kyle and Davey Richards' "sexy suplex." It's happening everywhere, and it's getting out of control everywhere. I don't know if you listen to Les Thatcher's show, but he made a comment this week about Rich Swann reversing a backdrop by doing a somersault and landing on his feet that was basically "the first time I saw it I thought it was really cool, but he then he did it so often that when he does it nowadays I think, 'oh. Okay. He got that spot in." I have been having similar feelings about some of Scurll's stuff throughout BOSJ (both the finger breaking and the spot where the other guy does the sunset flip and Marty does his wacky arm-waving thing), and Taichi has basically killed himself for me by just doing the same schtik every match, whereas if you go back to 2014/2015, I was one of the his biggest proponents. Compare that to guys like Ospreay or Dragon Lee or Ricochet who have their spots that they get in, but those spots are, like, actual moves rather than what amounts to antics so it feels like the guy is hitting one of his tried and true moves rather than making sure he gets his spots over. This sort comedy takes that to an extreme because it really shouldn't be there in the first place (compare that to something like Keith Lee's little comments during a match, which fit in with his calm and cocky nature, or a more organic Colt Cabana type of comedy). I fine with comedy if it either flows organically from the match or it is kept isolated in it's own clearly "comedy match" like Kikutaro stuff. Here the comedy is guys going out of their way to be silly, and it feels like I see it in half of the match on every single show I watch. It's one of those things that these guys need to learn to not go out and do every singe time.

3 is fine, if you don't like spotfests, then that's perfectly ok, some people pay for them, some don't. It's exactly that whole dive debate, some people wanna see 1000 dives, some people still buy to watch old timers do 1000 headlocks. There's no right or wrong.

It's not the dives that bother me (too many Canadian Destroyers is where I draw the line, though). It's the lack of any sort of coherent story to connect them.

[cero2k]

When it comes to the BOSJ, I agree, but I also realize that i'm seeing the same 16 guys fight for the past two weeks non stop, and many of those matches are 'house show' matches which are 'get your shit in' because the fans are always different, these shows aren't live or televised. But overall, what you're describing is wrestling for the last 40 yrs, it's always been about 'get your shit in'. For 10 yrs Cena was Mr 5 moves of doom, then he was 7 moves of doom, and before him Rock/Austin/Hunter/Taker/Hogan. And now, literally every WWE match is a formula match, it's not surprising that the best match in WWE had to be one between two guys that are not in WWE. The problem of how you're describing it it may be more that there is tons of wrestling, and we're watching all of it. You feel that Scurll is overdone because it's not just NJPW, but PWG, ROH, RevPro, PROGRESS, and whatever many other promotions he does.

On the PWG thing, i don't know what to say, you're paying waay to much attention to details and looking for waay to much logic in a fake sport, especially the PWG kind. Some promotions are good for that like LU or CHIKARA, but try to find logic in SHIMMER that tape every 4 months and you may go crazy.

Also, it was a 3-way tag team tornado match, i don't know what kind of story you would wanna see other than these guys are beating the shit out of each other. I mean, if you want a story, there's the story that the bucks were in a disadvantage because they were easily ganged up on and kept away from the action, and that they were not part of the finish.

[Big Red Machine]

When it comes to the BOSJ, I agree, but I also realize that i'm seeing the same 16 guys fight for the past two weeks non stop, and many of those matches are 'house show' matches which are 'get your shit in' because the fans are always different, these shows aren't live or televised. But overall, what you're describing is wrestling for the last 40 yrs, it's always been about 'get your shit in'. For 10 yrs Cena was Mr 5 moves of doom, then he was 7 moves of doom, and before him Rock/Austin/Hunter/Taker/Hogan. And now, literally every WWE match is a formula match, it's not surprising that the best match in WWE had to be one between two guys that are not in WWE. The problem of how you're describing it it may be more that there is tons of wrestling, and we're watching all of it. You feel that Scurll is overdone because it's not just NJPW, but PWG, ROH, RevPro, PROGRESS, and whatever many other promotions he does.

It feels like there is a difference between moves and schtik, though, and Marty is veering more into schtik territory. In this tournament especially, but I have been feeling it about him more and more in ROH and RevPro recently. The only PWG I've seen him in recently was on this show and he stayed away from that (aside from the finger-breaking, but they did use that to later set up another spot, which was actually my favorite spot in the match). But I am a bit concerned because this change in him seems to have come after he was working more and more in the US- which, for him, means ROH and PWG. I really don't want to see him turn into a Dalton Castle or Young Bucks or even Adam Cole at times where they feel like their matches are more about schtik than substance.

On the PWG thing, i don't know what to say, you're paying waay to much attention to details and looking for waay to much logic in a fake sport, especially the PWG kind. Some promotions are good for that like LU or CHIKARA, but try to find logic in SHIMMER that tape every 4 months and you may go crazy.

I don't follow SHINE or SHIMMER, but I'd bet that Prazak is actually pretty good about that sort of thing. His IWA-MS run was pretty good.

Also, it was a 3-way tag team tornado match, i don't know what kind of story you would wanna see other than these guys are beating the shit out of each other. I mean, if you want a story, there's the story that the bucks were in a disadvantage because they were easily ganged up on and kept away from the action, and that they were not part of the finish.

Maybe consistently work some body parts or focus more on one team being the one in peril or have the Bucks be total assholes so the other two team up on them but then have the other two fighting over the pinfall and the Bucks take advantage of that to make a comeback... there's stuff you could do.

[cero2k]

the difference between moves an shtick is really thin, so I see where you're coming from. I personally don't think that a shtick necessarily makes you less or your matches less serious if you get your shit in, especially if your shtick is your mannerisms but your moves are still serious. Nakamura arguably (especially now in WWE) has a shtick, but his wrestling is serious, and that's how I see Castle too. I think it's again, a personal taste thing, some shticks i'm ok with, some I hate. I love Fandango, but hate No Way Jose, and they're technically the same shit.

Some months ago you rated that Bullet Club vs Ricochet/Sydal/Ospreay match at double this one, and that was arguably the same spotfest, so I find it hard to believe that you would take 4 pts for that comedy spot, i think this is why I feel you're rating this with a bias or a bad mood because of the comedy.

[Big Red Machine]

the difference between moves an shtick is really thin, so I see where you're coming from. I personally don't think that a shtick necessarily makes you less or your matches less serious if you get your shit in, especially if your shtick is your mannerisms but your moves are still serious. Nakamura arguably (especially now in WWE) has a shtick, but his wrestling is serious, and that's how I see Castle too. I think it's again, a personal taste thing, some shticks i'm ok with, some I hate. I love Fandango, but hate No Way Jose, and they're technically the same shit.

The thing is that Marty's stuff has gotten to the point where it feels way too goofy to me. The Chicken Wing Dance has gotten so over the top that it's ridiculous and Marty looks like an idiot for not trying to follow up, and the arm-flapping thing on the blocked sunset flip goes on for way too long that I am wondering why the opponent doesn't just move out of the way when it's clear he isn't going to pull Marty down.

The difference between Dalton and Nakamura is actually a great illustration of where I think the line is crossed. When Nakamura does his stuff in the middle of a match it comes off to me as mind games because he will do something I know that I myself would find really f*cking annoying if the opponent did, and when the other guy reacts by trying to kick him or whatever Nakamura always manages to move out of the way very quickly and I can see how this would make the opponent even more frustrated.
With Dalton Castle he does his stupid poses and the opponent always stands there looking confused, as if they've never seen anything like this before and don't know what to make of it, no matter how many times they've been on the same show as Dalton or even how many times they've wrestled Dalton in the past, the opponent always has the same reaction of confusion. Either that or they copy Dalton's bending backwards thing. It feels like the opponent's reaction part of Dalton's spot, no matter how little sense this reaction makes. Their reactions cease to feel natural. Why would BJ Whitmer react by bending backwards like Dalton Castle? BJ is not just a heel but a wily veteran heel. Dalton is doing something that puts himself in a position where it would be hard for him to defend himself. I expect his opponent- especially a heel or a Davey Richards-type "serious wrestler" to run over and kick him. But the spot is that Dalton does this thing that he does which apparently throws his opponent off his game or whatever despite their being no real reason why it would do so for longer than about three seconds (and Dalton does his pose for a lot longer than that), and that's assuming that it is the first time they've ever seen it, and you would think that anyone who has to wrestle Dalton Castle would have this scouted by now and know that Dalton never does anything productive once he does his pose so they would know not to be thrown off by it.
Compare that to Nakamura's head on the chest thing, to which Yano would react differently than Tanahashi who would react differently than Shibata who would react differently than Taguchi. Nakamura's doesn't feel as repetitive because his opponents react differently and always feels like it is doing something for the match. Dalton's feels like he's doing his goofy thing because doing a goofy thing is what Dalton does, and whether or not it makes sense for him to do it or whether or not his opponent's reaction makes any sort of sense is irrelevant because the focus isn't on the story of the match, it's on Dalton doing a silly thing so the crowd can laugh.

Some months ago you rated that Bullet Club vs Ricochet/Sydal/Ospreay match at double this one, and that was arguably the same spotfest, so I find it hard to believe that you would take 4 pts for that comedy spot, i think this is why I feel you're rating this with a bias or a bad mood because of the comedy.

If I remember correctly, that match felt more coherent. I also think that being 3 vs. 3 as opposed to 2 vs. 2 vs. 2 makes a difference there as it allowed for more teamwork and made it feel less like guys just running in and hitting everyone they saw. There is also an issue of diminishing returns. The first few times you see a Canadian Destroyer it's the coolest thing ever. I think most of the reason I ever gate a sh*t about Jennifer Blake was that she could do one and no other woman was doing it at the time. But nowadays when you see a Canadian Destroyer it's just kind of a thing you almost expect at some point, and for it to be impressive something else need to be added to it, like doing it on the apron or having a HUGE dude like Keith Lee or Michael Elgin involved. In the six months or whatever between that match and this one I've seen these guys and others all doing these same spots in PWG, ROH, AAW, RevPro, New Japan, LU, etc. At this point just doing spots doesn't mean much to me anymore. I need a story to make me care about the athleticism.